Can't get drum over new shoes after pulling all adjustments in.. what next?

Just picked up new brake shoes for my 1950 Dodge. Rear ones went on ok... but just tried to put the drum back over the new front shoes and it is not fitting! I've tweeked the adjustments every way I can think of. The springs are on. Anyone ever run into this? Did anyone have to sand the shoes down to fit?

Yup. That or the drums probably could use a lite cut...............Bob

I've had to sand the lining down for them to fit also. One other thing you can check is make sure the top part of the new shoe that goes over the upper cam is the same size as the old one. I've heard of people who instead of sanding the lining enlarge the top opening on the shoe to gain room.

Thanks... I checked the shop manual and checked the exact position they had for the anchor bolts prior to adjusting. When I set mine to that exact position, the drum now will push on but tight against the shoes. Still too tight but close. At least now I can move the cams a bit to see if the drum frees up. Makes sense that you could grind a bit of metal away that is against the cam and buy some margin.

We used to contour the shoes to fit the drums, this is necessary for the brakes to work with full efficiency. If you do not have a brake lathe there are other ways to do it.

One guy got some sandpaper or plumber's roll at the hardware store, stuck it on the inside of the drum and rubbed the shoes against it. Another way would be to mark the shoe with carbon paper and sand it down on a belt sander.

Replacement brake linings are often thicker than the original because the expectation is that the brake drums will have been turned to get a new surface. If your brake drums are still close to original size they won't fit without being arced.

Terry

Has anyone tried Midas or Meinike for arcing? Or am I dreaming????

^^^You're dreaming^^^

This is the puller I bought just to get the drum off . So at least your past that part . maybe clean out the adjuster slot hole if you exchanged your shoes for a new set .good luck

Does the '50 not have a primary shoe?

I had a 57 Custom Royal and remember the split wheel cylinder setup and separate adjuster cams for each shoe. I thought I should see the primary shoe with shorter lining on your photo. It wouldn't make it any easier to put the drum on but they sure wouldn't be as touchy.

I had that same puller. what a beast but worked like a charm.

Good Luck

Bill

Before you do any "sizing," I think you have to push the wheel cylinder rods all the way in. It looks like they are all the way out.

Had the same problem changing brake shoes for the first time many years ago.

Before you do any "sizing," I think you have to push the wheel cylinder rods all the way in. It looks like they are all the way out.

Had the same problem changing brake shoes for the first time many years ago.

Don't forget to spin the drum as you try to put it over the shoes. Do NOT just try to shove it straight on or it will bind. Many times that will help immensely in the installation.

frcc

Go to the Chrysler/Mopar section of this site. Find the thread titled

[h=2]Strange hydraulic brake issue, 1950 Windsor.[/h]

Go down to reply #17 and read from there to the end of the thread. I think you will find some very usefull information about the dual cylinder Lockheed brakes used on Mopars.

Before you do any "sizing," I think you have to push the wheel cylinder rods all the way in. It looks like they are all the way out.

Had the same problem changing brake shoes for the first time many years ago.

Wait... I didn't post a picture... that's someone else's picture my cylinders are completely compressed. Looks like I need to take the drums somewhere to have them turned. I just got an email from one that said they needed the car to turn the drums and arc the shoes. I'm hoping the they only needed the car to arc the shoes. How am I supposed to get the car to them without brakes!!!!???

OOPS. Sorry..

Dwight,

I have done brake jobs on dozens of these cars over the years and I believe that you simply purchased a really crappy set of relined shoes. If you are willing to take a chance, call Ray Helger at 401-635-4849 for a NOS set of brake shoes. ALso ask him about your problem, too. His prices are good and he is a good guy. (call wed - sat). It doesn't make any sense to turn down drums to accommodate ill fitting brake shoes.

Dwight,

I have done brake jobs on dozens of these cars over the years and I believe that you simply purchased a really crappy set of relined shoes. If you are willing to take a chance, call Ray Helger at 401-635-4849 for a NOS set of brake shoes. ALso ask him about your problem, too. His prices are good and he is a good guy. (call wed - sat). It doesn't make any sense to turn down drums to accommodate ill fitting brake shoes.

I agree with this.

Years ago they sold brake shoes to fit oversize drums in various oversizes .010, .020 inch etc. The oversize was marked with the part number. When you match the shoe to the inside of the drum if the ends touch but not the middle. Then the shoe is oversize. Were talking thousandths here. You may need a set of feeler gauges to measure this. If the center touches but not the ends then the drum is oversize in relation to the shoe. You can try all the shoes in one drum to find the difference in them.

I would never, in a million years, turn old drums to match the shoes. That's bass ackwards thinking. Drums are getting hard to find, for all old cars, and you don't want to, needlessly, grind precious metal off of them

OK, so that leaves me with sanding down the shoes. Sounds like a number of you aren't afraid to have at it with some sand paper. Wouldn't take much. The drum does squeeze on. Is that the consensus? Sand down the shoes and let normal wear and tear eventually take off the imperfections?

If the drums will squeeze on, you could try this: put the drums on and go for a short drive - two or three miles. Apply the brakes firmly several times. Let the brakes cool, jack the car up and see if the wheels turn more freely. It is quite possible they will, because I have done this and it works. Do it as many times as needed. If you like, you could remove the drums and see what the lining to drum contact area looks like. It should be reasonably obvious.

Terry

Just had a friend at work recommend the same approach. Nice that it has a fluid coupler to keep the clutch from suffering through this!

Your wheel clyinders might still have the longer OE W/cyl pins that can be an issue with oversize shoe linings-replace with std shoes or get the shoes arc'ed.

Any commercial shoe reliner can do it cheap.

I have run into this on these lockheeds many many times...I cut the shoes down on my arcing machine which is good for proper shoe to drum fit and a high firm pedal.

You simply cannot, accurately, sand down brake linings. The shoes will not correctly meet the drums. In addition, you will be breathing all that good-old-time asbestos. Bad idea. Driving with tight brake shoes to wear them down? Really a dumb idea! You might even wind up overheating the rubber components.

Really compare your old shoes with the new ones. ALso, call the supplier where you purchased the shoes, explain the problem, and ask his advice. I STILL maintain that you received an oversize set of brake shoes.

I have owned ten MOPOR product cars, ranging from 1936 to 1959 and can speak from experience.

Are you sure the simple answer isn't that you installed 1/4" brake lining when the original was 3/16"?

You simply cannot, accurately, sand down brake linings. The shoes will not correctly meet the drums. In addition, you will be breathing all that good-old-time asbestos. Bad idea. Driving with tight brake shoes to wear them down? Really a dumb idea! You might even wind up overheating the rubber components.

Really compare your old shoes with the new ones. ALso, call the supplier where you purchased the shoes, explain the problem, and ask his advice. I STILL maintain that you received an oversize set of brake shoes.

I have owned ten MOPOR product cars, ranging from 1936 to 1959 and can speak from experience.

I have to respectfully disagree with you on this one Gary. Fifty years ago I worked for a NAPA auto parts store and I did this exact thing almost daily. We had an Ammco brake lathe and it included a re-archer attachment. We would first measure the drums and check to make sure they were not already oversize, NY state only allowed .060 to be taken out of a drum. After the drums were turned we would re-arch the new relined shoes they had purchased from us to match the drum we had turned. Each drum had it's own matched set of shoes as the drums usually didn't match each other exactly. This was the only proper way to do a complete brake job that included new shoes or turned drums. We did this for many dealerships so it was accepted practice.

Howard Dennis

I have to respectfully disagree with you on this one Gary. Fifty years ago I worked for a NAPA auto parts store and I did this exact thing almost daily. We had an Ammco brake lathe and it included a re-archer attachment. We would first measure the drums and check to make sure they were not already oversize, NY state only allowed .060 to be taken out of a drum. After the drums were turned we would re-arch the new relined shoes they had purchased from us to match the drum we had turned. Each drum had it's own matched set of shoes as the drums usually didn't match each other exactly. This was the only proper way to do a complete brake job that included new shoes or turned drums. We did this for many dealerships so it was accepted practice.

Howard Dennis

I used the very same process at the Firestone store where I was a brake mechanic.

I like the idea of gluing some rough sand paper to the inside of a drum and hand sanding the shoes.

I too remember the arcing process.

A quicker way to get at the same thing would be to use a belt sander. Put the brake shoe in its drum and measure with a feeler gauge to see where it needs to be taken down, and how much. Wear a face mask even though the linings no longer contain asbestos.

Post #24 shows the ammco arcing machine. I do MoPar shoes all the time for my customers. Fast accurate and easy.

I ordered them from Andy Bernbaum. He only offers one shoe and the thickness isn't listed. I had no idea that they could be purchased at different thicknesses. Can you direct me to a site that indicates the shoe thickness?

Thanks!

Good luck pinning down brake shoe lining thickness now days for old cars.

You can try buying more shoes till some fit. You might get lucky.

I'd get em cut down a few thousandths. Be done with it.

I'm no authority on Mopar products but the data I have says all Chrysler products between 1935 and 1950 used 3/16" lining thickness except 1935 Chrysler C1-2-3, 36 Chrysler C9-10-11, 1937 Chrysler C15-17, 1938 Chrysler C20, and 1939 Chrysler C24.

I had a similar problem with one of my old cars and it had me scratching my head for several days. What I discovered was I had removed the backing plates to clean and repaint and did not notice that the mounting holes on one of the backing plates was elongated. When I re installed the plate it was not centered correctly over the hub. Since the shoes are mounted to the backing plate I could not slide the drum onto the hub. The other side of the car was not a problem so of course I started swapping drums and brake shoes and all would work just on one side but not on the other.

My motto has always been "its not a mistake if you find the problem before someone else does"

GOOD LUCK