It's dark at night

I got them installed. I first adjusted the aim on the silver stars. They were way off. I took some pictures of the "before." I then installed the Truck-lites. I readjusted the aim as these were a bit different.

I measured 30" off the ground for my horizontal and 22" off the hood emblem center for my verticals. I then adjusted both lights to be inside the lower right quadrant for my aim. I also had about 120 pounds in the trunk as that is about what I carry.

They are much brighter! [Pictures to follow].

However here is my problem.

When I push the "off" button on the headlight switch the lights turn off but do not retract. I tried pushing the light retract button but that didn't work either. What does happen is that while I was driving with the headlights up [but off] they suddenly retract. I switched out the headlight switch thinking maybe the off button wasn't as good as it should be. But it made no difference. The light turns off but won't retract.

The little amber indicator light on both the headlight switch and the light retract button are on but very dim.

I think a resistor is needed, but if so what resistance and then what wire do I put it on?

Easiest way to fix the door issue is to install a relay on both the high and low beam wires and run a positive through the switched contacts. I had to do this with my LEDs/HID.

Great. How about a tutorial with a parts list?

Your situation is much simpler than what was described in that relay thread - because you are still using the stock wiring.

I am thinking a simple, say, 82 ohm 1/2 watt resistor from the low beam + to the ground. If that works, then a really simple harness could be built to make it plug and play, weatherproof, etc.

Below are some photos that Dave sent me of his new headlight upgrade that he wanted me to post.

Dave wrote:

The top picture are the Silver Stars adjusted correctly.

The next one is Lights adjusted with the Silver Star on the left and the Led on the right

The next one is just getting started with the Silver Stars way out of adjustment

The last one is looking at the car with the LED on the passenger side and the LED on the Driver's side.

As you can see the lights are working great however I am having problems with the headlight doors retracting.

I never adjusted my lights to use the brights. They were supposedly adjusted when the body shop replaced some front end parts when I had a small fender bender when a woman cut me off.

Other then that all is good here.

Click for larger image.

Great. How about a tutorial with a parts list?

Cut the factory light green and tan wires prior to the left headlight. Then splice and install relays as show in the diagram.

Daniel,

Is that Starship of yours ready for interstellar travel yet or is Scotty still trying to learning how to get the warp drive to click?

John F.

Here are more photos Dave sent me of his headlight upgrade project. I will let him explain them.

Click to enlarge

I just wanted to show what the light looks at night. It is a bright very white light. Shows great down the road, great side illumination. It is about 40 feet to the garage door with a slight incline to the door which is why they look "low" on the door.

Did a little driving last night in the dark and am very impressed. I know now that the silver stars were not aimed correctly, but these are a great improvement, and once I get the headlight door issue resolved I will be very happy.

Some time last night the lights retracted. I don't know why that happens,maybe someone can explain that to me.

Holloweeennn!!!!!!!!!!

I thought we had covered the retract issue fairly well in the old thread. To summarize, the headlight door module has a feature built in that it won't retract the lamps if the low beam filaments are burned out on both sides. Because of this, folks that install high impedance type lamps (HID, LED, etc.) will experience this effect and the lamps won't retract when turned off. These lamp types will require the use of a supplemental wiring harness if normal functionality is desired.

In addition. I would recommend that all 80s owners who do much driving at night and don't have to remain OEM for show purposes, (even with stock 35 W bulbs), install a harness to reduce the stress and prolong the life of the headlight switch. I've seen cases where the current drawn by the parking lights has melted parts inside the switch as well, and am going to look into adding a relay in that circuit as well like they also did in 90 with the headlights. But that's a topic for another day.

Daniel has posted the bare bones solution to creating a harness that should work in most cases. It obviously is not plug and play and depending on the choice of relays, there could still be an issue with the quick retraction of the lights as documented in that old thread. The standard relay that is used throughout our car should be fine as well as other 12v relays offered for headlight use. I would advise against the use of relays that have a coil resistance over 80 ohms or so to keep things simple.

There are several aftermarket harnesses available from various sources on ebay, from HID vendors and like Ronnie has posted. Things to look for in a harness to make it PnP in a Reatta: Needs to have a three prong plug that mimics the business end of a headlight to plug into a lamp connector to get the high / low beam signal from the switches. Needs to have thin enough lamp connectors so that there is no interference with things as the lights go up and down. This might be the hardest to find or require modifying the harness to get around. Power and ground wires need to be long enough to get to the ground and hot posts and have a fuse built in. The relays they use need to be weatherproofed to survive and sufficient to deliver the needed amperage reliably. Figure out what the high beam lamps will draw, and check the fuses and relays are sized accordingly.

After you have installed a harness, you should really pull the headlight circuit breaker out of the fuse panel and replace it with a 5 or 7 amp modified fuse to prevent smoking the switch or wiring in the dash in case the switch does go south later on. The prongs on the breaker are narrower than those on a fuse, but you can grind down the ones on a fuse to fit in the panel socket.

As to the need to upgrade your headlights to begin with, we all lose the light sensitive rods and cones in our retinas as we age. On top of that many of us will develop cataracts to boot which really messes things up. So our night vision goes to hell as we age. Headlight technology has soared with the development of projector lamps, HID and now LED light sources. So why shouldn't we want to improve our safety and take advantage of developments as everything but our eyesight gets better.

In addition. I would recommend that all 80s owners who do much driving at night and don't have to remain OEM for show purposes, (even with stock 35 W bulbs), install a harness to reduce the stress and prolong the life of the headlight switch. I've seen cases where the current drawn by the parking lights has melted parts inside the switch as well, and am going to look into adding a relay in that circuit as well like they also did in 90 with the headlights. But that's a topic for another day.

There is nothing you can doi past the High/Low interior relay to prolong the life of the headlight switch. If you want to do that you could add micro relays to the interior lighting harness but it really would not be much help. The switch only runs relays it does not power the light directly. At least not on an 89 according to the FSM wiring diagram.

I thought we had covered the retract issue fairly well in the old thread. To summarize, the headlight door module has a feature built in that it won't retract the lamps if the low beam filaments are burned out on both sides. Because of this, folks that install high impedance type lamps (HID, LED, etc.) will experience this effect and the lamps won't retract when turned off. These lamp types will require the use of a supplemental wiring harness if normal functionality is desired.

In addition. I would recommend that all 80s owners who do much driving at night and don't have to remain OEM for show purposes, (even with stock 35 W bulbs), install a harness to reduce the stress and prolong the life of the headlight switch. I've seen cases where the current drawn by the parking lights has melted parts inside the switch as well, and am going to look into adding a relay in that circuit as well like they also did in 90 with the headlights. But that's a topic for another day.

Daniel has posted the bare bones solution to creating a harness that should work in most cases. It obviously is not plug and play and depending on the choice of relays, there could still be an issue with the quick retraction of the lights as documented in that old thread. The standard relay that is used throughout our car should be fine as well as other 12v relays offered for headlight use. I would advise against the use of relays that have a coil resistance over 80 ohms or so to keep things simple.

There are several aftermarket harnesses available from various sources on ebay, from HID vendors and like Ronnie has posted. Things to look for in a harness to make it PnP in a Reatta: Needs to have a three prong plug that mimics the business end of a headlight to plug into a lamp connector to get the high / low beam signal from the switches. Needs to have thin enough lamp connectors so that there is no interference with things as the lights go up and down. This might be the hardest to find or require modifying the harness to get around. Power and ground wires need to be long enough to get to the ground and hot posts and have a fuse built in. The relays they use need to be weatherproofed to survive and sufficient to deliver the needed amperage reliably. Figure out what the high beam lamps will draw, and check the fuses and relays are sized accordingly.

After you have installed a harness, you should really pull the headlight circuit breaker out of the fuse panel and replace it with a 5 or 7 amp modified fuse to prevent smoking the switch or wiring in the dash in case the switch does go south later on. The prongs on the breaker are narrower than those on a fuse, but you can grind down the ones on a fuse to fit in the panel socket.

As to the need to upgrade your headlights to begin with, we all lose the light sensitive rods and cones in our retinas as we age. On top of that many of us will develop cataracts to boot which really messes things up. So our night vision goes to hell as we age. Headlight technology has soared with the development of projector lamps, HID and now LED light sources. So why shouldn't we want to improve our safety and take advantage of developments as everything but our eyesight gets better.

The Truck-Lite LED has a short pigtail that gets you away from the headlight opening, however the pigtail does not get you over the frame and down so it has to be lengthened by about 6". One could put a relay harness at that juncture and be good to go. However I never thought about the fuse in the relay slot in the fuse box.

Can you recommend one on either Ebay or Amazon that might work?

I don't think an aftermarket headlight harness will help this situation. Basically it still wouldn't provide the path to ground when the headlights are turned off. That is why I suspect simply bridging a (say) 82 or 91 ohm resistor between low beam + and ground might work. If it does, then one could simply buy a plug and socket for a couple of dollars, and assemble them with the resistor into a small homemade harness in a roadworthy fashion.

A second issue with aftermarket harnesses, such as the Painless #30815, is that the sockets for the bulbs are not at a right angle. This might cause a clearance issue with some headlights - such as my Hellas. The Truck-Lites have the pigtail with the plug at the end, so this would not be a concern.

The Truck-Lites are rated to draw 1.2 amps. Assuming 14 volts, that is only 16.8 watts - a large reduction in load on the headlight switch.

If the stock low beam wiring (using the plug for the headlamp) is used to pick up the coil in the harness kit relay wouldn't that be a path to ground for the headlight module? I don't know what the resistance of the coil would be but it could be supplemented with a resistor to ground if needed. These threads on headlight wiring get so long so quick that it is hard for me to follow what is being said.

It is a good point Ronnie. I have a unused commercial headlight harness sitting in my garage right now. It was made for quad 9006/9005 lights, so doesn't directly plug into the Reatta. But I could do a little jumpering to test it. Can't get to it for a couple of days though.

i don't believe much resistance is needed as I thought I tested the door retraction with a silver star on one side Truck-Lite on the other and the doors went up/down. I know I used the up/down knobs to make sure that I had bulb clearance and if the plug on the pigtail was in a place where it wouldn't get damaged by the headlight door or the hood when closed. And after that is when I ran the up/down test with the switches.

I am tempted to go one and one with the Truck-Lite/Silver Star now but want the extra vision and don't want to go through the hassle of swapping them back and forth...

Ronnie is correct about the coil of the relay substituting for the stock headlight filament and grounding the headlight module allowing it to retract the headlights. Need to be aware though that not all relay coils have the same resistance and if the one in your harness has too high of a resistance, then the lights may stay up for some time before enough voltage is bled off to allow them to close as was documented in that older post. We don't know what that magic resistance number should be, but I think most relays used in harnesses should work OK. Other factors in choosing a harness are as mentioned the size of the headlight sockets interfering with retracting of the headlight bucket, weatherproofing and material selection to allow the harness to survive the harsh environment at the front of the car under the hood, length of the wires to allow proper installation. Some harnesses only have a short ground wire coming off each light socket which could be difficult to work with in our situation. I haven't found a harness yet that I could equivocally say would be the one to go with.

This harness is the most impressive one I have found as he uses the correct parts and assembly techniques, but he makes them for motorcycles and the wire lengths are too short to cover the real estate we need. Since he makes each one by hand, he might consider building one with longer wire runs if you supplied the dimensions for a little extra cost. Might be worth looking into.

http://www.easternbeaver.com/Main/Wiring_Kits/H4_Kits/h4_kits.html#h4dual

The Reatta has a flat 90* plug that connects to the headlights. I haven't found an affordable harness that has 90* connectors. I like the idea of having ceramic connectors like in the photo below. Can anyone tell me if the connector in the photo will clear when the headlight buckets operate? If it will I think I'm ready to order this harness kit and try to see if it will be plug & play for our Reattas.

McReatta - the coils in my old relay harness have a dcr of about 97 ohms. Will play with it tomorrow to see if that is enough to allow the headlight door module to drop the lights.

McReatta - the coils in my old relay harness have a dcr of about 97 ohms. Will play with it tomorrow to see if that is enough to allow the headlight door module to drop the lights.

Will be good to know.

A spare Hella brand for general use in the car measures 75 ohms, and an AGN brand I have tested the module with measures 85 ohms. Remember to test both with engine off (battery voltage) and with engine running (charging voltage). Need to confirm relay clicks on and off , as well as lights retract when headlights turned on and off in both states. The 1.5 volt difference could make a difference in how the relay reacts to the module voltage.

Ok, here is what I discovered:

0.) The HDM probes at 5 volts. It even does it when the doors are closed.

1.) The relay my headlight harness came with has a 97 ohm dcr coil. It does NOT trigger the HDM.

2.) I tried a Potter & Brumfield relay that was laying around (pn VF4-75F11-Z01). It has a dcr of about 78 ohms. It 'interested' the HDM enough that one could hear clicks in the car. But was not enough to make the doors go down.

3.) I tried a spare Bosch relay that is the same as the ones on the Reatta firewall for the brakes. It has the same blade configuration as the P&B relay. However its dcr is a bit lower at about 73 ohms. It DID make the doors go down.

These tests were performed with the engine OFF. I had both headlights disconnected.

If the module is constantly probing with 5 volts is that going to be a problem with it trying to pick up the relay?

Will be good to know.

A spare Hella brand for general use in the car measures 75 ohms, and an AGN brand I have tested the module with measures 85 ohms. Remember to test both with engine off (battery voltage) and with engine running (charging voltage). Need to confirm relay clicks on and off , as well as lights retract when headlights turned on and off in both states. The 1.5 volt difference could make a difference in how the relay reacts to the module voltage.

Maybe I am oversimplifying, but regarding Dave's situation, power supply isn't an issue with the LED's, just adding some way to install a switched drain for the module?

If the module is constantly probing with 5 volts is that going to be a problem with it trying to pick up the relay?

I need to go back and test some more, but I suspect that is why Daniels headlights stay on for an extra 5 seconds.

Maybe I am oversimplifying, but regarding Dave's situation, power supply isn't an issue with the LED's, just adding some way to install a switched drain for the module?

Don't think you are. With the apparent low currant draw requirement for the LED lamps, there may not be a need to supersede the stock wiring to the lamps. There is of course as you point out, the need to drain that yellow wire from the module. This could be done with one relay added to the stock wiring.

What is the stated current draw for those LED lamps for high beam, and low beam?

Also, if incandescent bulbs are used with a supplemental harness like Ronnie is proposing, a single wire added to the harness might solve this problem but would depend on how that harness is wired, and how that relay performs in the car when the power is shut off.

Ok, here is what I discovered:

0.) The HDM probes at 5 volts. It even does it when the doors are closed.

1.) The relay my headlight harness came with has a 97 ohm dcr coil. It does NOT trigger the HDM.

2.) I tried a Potter & Brumfield relay that was laying around (pn VF4-75F11-Z01). It has a dcr of about 78 ohms. It 'interested' the HDM enough that one could hear clicks in the car. But was not enough to make the doors go down.

3.) I tried a spare Bosch relay that is the same as the ones on the Reatta firewall for the brakes. It has the same blade configuration as the P&B relay. However its dcr is a bit lower at about 73 ohms. It DID make the doors go down.

These tests were performed with the engine OFF. I had both headlights disconnected.

In addition to knowing if the doors close, it is also important to know if you hear the relay click off when power is removed even if the doors stay up. As long as the relays clicks off, it is easy enough to get those doors to close. If the relay stays energized with that constant 5v signal from the HDM, then that has to be corrected first before draining of that voltage can be addressed.

There is no way to predict how an aftermarket harness will react in our cars with testing or more information than is normally given by the manufacturer / vendor.

In addition to knowing if the doors close, it is also important to know if you hear the relay click off when power is removed even if the doors stay up. As long as the relays clicks off, it is easy enough to get those doors to close. If the relay stays energized with that constant 5v signal from the HDM, then that has to be corrected first before draining of that voltage can be addressed.

There is no way to predict how an aftermarket harness will react in our cars with testing or more information than is normally given by the manufacturer / vendor.

If I remember correctly, that constant voltage is what I observed as well. As soon as the drain wire was grounded, the voltage disappeared and did not return.

Don't think you are. With the apparent low currant draw requirement for the LED lamps, there may not be a need to supersede the stock wiring to the lamps. There is of course as you point out, the need to drain that yellow wire from the module. This could be done with one relay added to the stock wiring.

Let me take a guess: I believe the hi-lo relay in the console defaults to low beam when power is removed, so the drain is only needed in the low beam wire. Headlight power in on both terminals 30 and 86, headlight out on 87, ground on 85 and a fake headlight load on 87a and connected to the ground? Would only work on stock wiring?

No comments for two days lead me to believe that we will wait for the installation and see what happens? My harness is due in Monday. Try the install on Tuesday.

I'll be watching to see how it goes Dave. My harness will be here later in the week.

Last night after dark my wife and I went to Home Depot for some stuff. Lights were on, parked the car, lights turned off, did not retract. In the store for a 1/2 hour came out still up. Went to Applebee's for a sandwich, lights wouldn't retract when turned off, still up when we returned to the car 1 hour later. Went home parked the car, lights still up, watched a movie went out after about 2 hours lights down.

I know all this means nothing until I install the new harness and we see what happens. I am just establishing a time line of what I am experiencing now.

Which car did you put them into? The '89 and '90 are wired a bit differently. And if it is your '90, is yours late enough that it has the extra headlight relay?

has anyone checked to see how buick added the relay to the 90?is this anything easily copied?btw ive found that manually dimming the dash light helps.another thing im concidering doing is moving the dimmer back to the floor.i hardly ever use the bright lights because its too hard to dim suddenly while going around curves or eating.

has anyone checked to see how buick added the relay to the 90?is this anything easily copied?btw ive found that manually dimming the dash light helps.another thing im concidering doing is moving the dimmer back to the floor.i hardly ever use the bright lights because its too hard to dim suddenly while going around curves or eating.

Last night after dark my wife and I went to Home Depot for some stuff. Lights were on, parked the car, lights turned off, did not retract. In the store for a 1/2 hour came out still up. Went to Applebee's for a sandwich, lights wouldn't retract when turned off, still up when we returned to the car 1 hour later. Went home parked the car, lights still up, watched a movie went out after about 2 hours lights down.

I know all this means nothing until I install the new harness and we see what happens. I am just establishing a time line of what I am experiencing now.

That all sounds eerily familiar. Hard to get a handle on what to change when the operation is erratic. I know your lights are LED, hi and low, so this shouldn't make any difference, but try putting your lights on high beam and then shut them off. When I was doing the relay mod, and mine were acting in all sorts of strange, seemingly random, ways, mine worked normally when shutoff on hi setting. It may have been the mismatched relays at that time, or something in the circuit changes when the hi-low relay in the console breaks contact. Do you run with fogs on as well? Remember the guy that had luck with the retract if the fogs were also on? Maybe one or the other will give temporary relief.

It's all over the board now. I was at my buddy's helping with wood splitting. When we got done I showed him my lights. Had the headlights on,car not running for several minutes turned off lights, no retraction. Started car, lights retracted.

Went home did some yard work, jumped in the car w/wife to meet the kids and go swimming. Lights on to go, got there turned off lights and then car, no retraction. Left with car [turned lights on] got to pizza place, turned lights off lights retracted, turned car off. Picked up pizza turned on car and went back to meet up with the family. Turned off lights, no retraction, turned off car. 90 minutes later came out lights down. Drove home, turned off lights, no retraction, turned off car. Went out to garage 15 minutes later to check, lights retracted.

Like I said earlier I'll get excited after I get the headlight harness installed if it doesn't work as it should. The big thing is that at least the lights turn off.

The Truck-Lites are rated to draw 1.2 amps. Assuming 14 volts, that is only 16.8 watts - a large reduction in load on the headlight switch.

Can someone confirm if this is low or high beam? What is max draw? Their website doesn't specify anything.

12.8 volts draw is 1.8 amps low beam 3.6 amps high beams. Per the truck-lite 2014 supplemental catalouge on page 8.

has anyone checked to see how buick added the relay to the 90?is this anything easily copied?btw ive found that manually dimming the dash light helps.another thing im concidering doing is moving the dimmer back to the floor.i hardly ever use the bright lights because its too hard to dim suddenly while going around curves or eating.

The schematic for both early and late '90 versions are in the FSM - easily downloadable from reatta.net. Also here is a photo of the interior drivers side fusebox area. The extra factory relay is zip tied to the big black cable housing on the left. (Photo is of my car - which is a late '90.)

I like mine better. Pretty sure I got the right relay, but sure about the fuse. This is my solution for the doors and like I said before. It only took 2 hours.