55 Buick Horn wiring problem

I have a 1955 Special 2 dr sedan; three speed, no power. Some time ago I tried to sound the horn while in a turn, resulting in damage to whatever kind of slip joint is in the steering column. The horn shorted and blew continuously. I detached the wire in the engine compartment I have no idea what the damage is. I presume I would have to pull the whole column to get at it.

I am wondering if anyone else has ever encountered this problem.

Adjust the horn contact adjusting nut in the steering wheel. There is guidance in the shop manual..........Bob

If you don't have a manual,

Try Ebay for a paper copy. Also there are DVD copies.

I got a DVD shop manual from Rock Auto

I think the copper inside the steering column split. I have seen it on almost all of the 55's I have owned or worked on.

Old Tank has the fix on his website.

Www.buickrestorer.com

I think the copper inside the steering column split. I have seen it on almost all of the 55's I have owned or worked on.

Old Tank has the fix on his website.

Www.buickrestorer.com

Thank you for your response. I read his fix for the "collar". Where I'm still lost is as to the location of this collar and more specifically how to get to it. Do I need to remove the steering wheel or is it accessible from the end without removal? Is it just coincidental that the damage apparently was done when I pushed the horn button at the same time I was turning the wheel?

Brian

I will try and take pics tomorrow. I have a disassembled column in my garage. I'm going to call this a medium difficult project the first time you do it.

You have to pull the wheel and the upper column. To pull the upper column, you need to pull all of the wires off of the column (both the ones to the neutral safety switch on the column and the wires from the column to the fuse panel).

This sounds much more difficult than it really is. Yes, there is a lot of disassembly, but patience will pay.

If you don't want to tackle it right now, you can pull the brown wire at the bottom of the column at the horn contact and wire it to a push button. That is how many 55's come to my shop. It is a crappy design.

Oh, and it wasn't just a coincidence that it happened while turning. The steering shaft turned and the contact bushing caught a tear in the metal and shredded it.

You will see all of this when you pull it apart.

Like I said. I will take some pics tomorrow.

The horn ring has no physical connection with the shaft bushing or it's contact so it's doubtful that pushing the horn ring/button would cause a bushing/horn problem. I'll leave my bet on the problem being in the contact assembly in the wheel hub. But I have been wrong once or twice before.That said it's likely the bushing is stress cracked and will fail with time and use. I did have the same problem in my 57 and either loosening or tightening the contact nut in the wheel hub was the fix............Bob

I will try and take pics tomorrow. I have a disassembled column in my garage. I'm going to call this a medium difficult project the first time you do it.

You have to pull the wheel and the upper column. To pull the upper column, you need to pull all of the wires off of the column (both the ones to the neutral safety switch on the column and the wires from the column to the fuse panel).

This sounds much more difficult than it really is. Yes, there is a lot of disassembly, but patience will pay.

If you don't want to tackle it right now, you can pull the brown wire at the bottom of the column at the horn contact and wire it to a push button. That is how many 55's come to my shop. It is a crappy design.

Oh, and it wasn't just a coincidence that it happened while turning. The steering shaft turned and the contact bushing caught a tear in the metal and shredded it.

You will see all of this when you pull it apart.

Like I said. I will take some pics tomorrow.

An aftermarket horn button can be hidden under the carpet, near the dimmer switch.

Making a foot operated horn. .....

I know of a '55 Buick that's had that fix for years...

Bhigdog is a hero of mine, but I'll bet a bottle of his scotch that it's the small copper (or brass) "bushing" at the base of the shaft.

The way to check is to undo the two screws and pull the plate (that the horn wire attaches to) at the bottom of the column:

You should see this and it should be unsplit and in one piece:

Hey Lamar,

Can you add 55 Buick to this title so I can search it in the future?

Thanks

I'll take that bet, Mike, but make it a bottle of red wine. My rational is that the brass slip ring provides a path from the horn relay to the steering wheel hub where the relay can find a ground when the horn ring/button is depressed. If the brass bushing disintegrates all that means is the horn relay circuit is now open and won't find a ground. The horn then will not blow at all. The fly in my theory would be if the slip ring shredded and pieces shorted the pick up pin to ground. Not likely especially since the OP stated that pressing the horn button (while turning) started the problem and typically the slip ring just splits and stays in place, held by the soldered on wire.

A good side bet would be if we ever hear from the OP again................Bob

You got it Bob.

My theory is actually based on if the "slip ring" (second pic... for clarity during this discussion) splits and is still connected to the wire, it grounds to the column, no longer protected by the rubber between it and the shaft.

I don't go to Vegas and I don't play the lottery. This is a tuff one but I will go 51% Bob and 49% Mike. Do I win anything in this deal?

I'll take that bet, Mike, but make it a bottle of red wine. My rational is that the brass slip ring provides a path from the horn relay to the steering wheel hub where the relay can find a ground when the horn ring/button is depressed. If the brass bushing disintegrates all that means is the horn relay circuit is now open and won't find a ground. The horn then will not blow at all. The fly in my theory would be if the slip ring shredded and pieces shorted the pick up pin to ground. Not likely especially since the OP stated that pressing the horn button (while turning) started the problem and typically the slip ring just splits and stays in place, held by the soldered on wire.

A good side bet would be if we ever hear from the OP again................Bob

I reread this and it makes sense.

Might be Bhigdog's first suggestion.

Or the ring just stuck and you need to lube the little rubbers on the wheel spokes.

I'm still betting on your fly in the ointment theory, Bob.

I can't even blame my answers on Scotch.

Or red wine...

You got it Bob.

My theory is actually based on if the "slip ring" (second pic... for clarity during this discussion) splits and is still connected to the wire, it grounds to the column, no longer protected by the rubber between it and the shaft.

In which case, since it is AFTER the contact pin, the RELAY has not found a ground. Only the wire, which is no longer connected to anything, has found a ground to nowhere. The only way that works is if the ring splits and a piece gets wedged between the contact pin and column or shaft.............Bob

In which case, since it is AFTER the contact pin, the RELAY has not found a ground. Only the wire, which is no longer connected to anything, has found a ground to nowhere. The only way that works is if the ring splits and a piece gets wedged between the contact pin and column or shaft.............Bob

It took me 3 minutes to absorb and comprehend that statement but it is a convincing argument. None the less..............?

How's that for riding the fence?

In this case you are all wrong. It's the relay that got stuck. The horn will probably still blow with the wire at the column disconnected. http://www.buickrestorer.com/relays.html

Since I don't do the snooty drinks like scotch or wine...dark beer is my peasants' drink.

Actually I give all three choices about 33% each.

Willie

Pecan Porter for a relay diagnosis.

Ok.

I like Willy's fix better than Mike's but mine better than Willy's. Assuming we'll all be at Allentown let's double down on this bet. Except to satisfy every one's delicate taste buds I'll be two bottles of beer. In my case (in the unlikely event I am wrong) It'll be Yuengling Lager to the most correct problem solver. If someone else has a better diagnosis in mind you're welcome to ante up and get in on this.

If the OP never returns I get to drink both of your guy's share. In fact I'm going to start right now, just in case.................Bob

I'm thinking that Bob is on the right track with the horn button as well as Mike with the slipring, however, is it possible that the bakelite wafer holding the horn button, coming from the slip ring on the white wire, in the middle of the steering shaft broke, which would cause the horn button contact to ground to the inside of the shaft, causing the horn to continously blow. Also, from what I have read as well, Willie's answer is probably the most likely culprit. Relays go all the time. I'm in for all the poisons mentioned here...

OK, you're in for the fiber washer that holds the contact on the top of the steering shaft breaking. I like that for least likely, but it is possible..........Bob

It is definitely a possibility Jim, but probably not on a car that hasn't been monkeyed with recently.

A) I'll be in Allentown.

Willie has the easiest solution, both to test for and to fix.

C) My solution is now looking like the least likely

D) That means I have the first round (at least)

E) I owe Jim for the last time we hung out, so he is included in my round

F) I'm coaching Little League baseball tonight, so dealing with a bunch of eleven year olds has me drinking a Tecate to loosen me up right now

Sorry OP.

Hijacked!!!

OK, you're in for the fiber washer that holds the contact on the top of the steering shaft breaking. I like that for least likely, but it is possible..........Bob

That falls into the remaining 1%.

It is definitely a possibility Jim, but probably not on a car that hasn't been monkeyed with recently.

A) I'll be in Allentown.

Willie has the easiest solution, both to test for and to fix.

C) My solution is now looking like the least likely

D) That means I have the first round (at least)

E) I owe Jim for the last time we hung out, so he is included in my round

F) I'm coaching Little League baseball tonight, so dealing with a bunch of eleven year olds has me drinking a Tecate to loosen me up right now

Sorry OP.

Hijacked!!!

Item C still needs to be looked at, nearly all original are going to have some splitting even if not failed.

Item C still needs to be looked at, nearly all original are going to have some splitting even if not failed.

This being my first venture on the forum I can only presume that I am that which has been referred to as the missing OP. I just now checked back in and am amazed at the myriad of diagnosis and the high level of alcoholic wagering. I am shocked!

Seriously, the various ideas offered,while not yielding a definitive solution, have given me a better grasp of where to look. I hope to get to this in the next few days to provide what closure I can for all interested parties.

Yes, you are the OP (original poster). You are to be commended for returning to the forum after asking for advice. Far too many new guys show up, ask a question or for advice and then never come back to even say "Thanks guys for taking the time to help."

To trouble shoot your problem reconnect the wire you removed. Hopefully the horn will blow. There is a single tan wire with a connector pushed onto the steering column under the dash. Remove that wire. If the horn continues to blow it's most likely the horn relay and Willie is the smartest guy on the block. If it stops blowing I think I move a lot closer to head of the class. In the event that the horn does not blow when you reconnect the under hood wire you originally removed then your problem is intermittent and that augers well for me being correct. One more thing. Get a shop manual................Bob

And welcome aboard Brian. Seriously.

Follow Bhigdog's advice.

He's a smart dude.

And after all that don't be surprised if Mike ends up drinking all of our beers..............Bob

Cheers Mate.

I'd be glad to buy all four of you a "round" for this entertaining discussion.

BTW, this must be the year of the horn problems. My 56's quit working after replacing the steering gear and I still have not got it fixed. I know it works if I ground the wire to the steering column.

I'm quite sure with the high level of horn experts attending to this problem, they can surely diagnose and solve your problem John..there may be a necessary dose of anesthetics necessary for the team solving the issue, but never fear, I'm quite sure that they will be able to solve it! Carry on...

Will be sad when this thread runs its course.

Ben

It's not over yet suckas!!!

JD,

The 56 was the first year with a rag joint for Buick (if I'm not mistaken). I was able to fix my horn issue with my 63 Cat by bridging the gap between top and bottom sections (at the joint).

I refuse to bet on this one, but you might want to try it.

Thanks Mike: I tried that once already, but it did not work. I will be trying that again as I work on this further.

In which case, since it is AFTER the contact pin, the RELAY has not found a ground. Only the wire, which is no longer connected to anything, has found a ground to nowhere. The only way that works is if the ring splits and a piece gets wedged between the contact pin and column or shaft.............Bob

Guys - Are the bets still open? My guess is that the brass collar split and the rubber isolator got brittle and slid down the shaft, causing the wiper button on the column to hit the shaft. When replacing cementing the isolator in proper position on the steering shaft helped keep it in place on the install. Measuring and marking the distance where the contact wiper hits on the steering column correctly once rather than incorrectly twice also helps. However, I don't remember if the button can extend far enough into the column to hit the shaft and short out without the busted collar helping it make a connection to ground. Can't wait to hear root cause.

Put me in for a round either way! Fair price of admission!

Guys - Are the bets still open? My guess is that the brass collar split and the rubber isolator got brittle and slid down the shaft, causing the wiper button on the column to hit the shaft. When replacing cementing the isolator in proper position on the steering shaft helped keep it in place on the install. Measuring and marking the distance where the contact wiper hits on the steering column correctly once rather than incorrectly twice also helps. However, I don't remember if the button can extend far enough into the column to hit the shaft and short out without the busted collar helping it make a connection to ground. Can't wait to hear root cause.

Put me in for a round either way! Fair price of admission!

Hmmm. Double failure. First the collar splits then the insulation band fails. Possible but not likely. in any event you're in....................Bob

It's gonna be a fun afternoon, no matter what.

I suspect Buick5563 is right on this. I have experienced this same issue with my 1954 Buick Special. Here is an old discussion of this same issue:

http://forums.aaca.org/f162/dreaded-horn-wire-contact-job-367151.html

Fixing it is fairly simple. Getting it disassembled enough to fix it is a bit of a chore.

Hey Lamar,

Can you add 55 Buick to this title so I can search it in the future?

Thanks

I guess Lamar did not see this one, so I took care of it.