Hershell-Spillman 4s and 6s Question/s

Looking thru some of my old parts catalogs for some Hershell-Spillman listings, I noticed a great deal of confusion in the 7000 and 11000 engine listings...

They seemed to go back and forth as to whether either was a 4 or a 6, and whether the bore was 31/4 or 31/2...

An occasional misprint is common, but there were a whole bunch of these...

Then in the engines section of a 1924 piston catalog I find:

7000---4, 6, 8 cyl---31/4 bore

11000---4, 6 cyl---31/2 bore...as if these engines were issued in 4 and 6cyl versions (leave alone the V8)...

Both a 30 McCord and a 38 Vic gasket catalog show

7000---4cyl---31/2 bore

11000---6cyl---31/4 bore

Does anyone here know if H-S actually issued either of these engines in both 4 and 6 versions and/or in the two bores, or is this a case of

misprint contagion??

Looking thru some of my old parts catalogs for some Hershell-Spillman listings, I noticed a great deal of confusion in the 7000 and 11000 engine listings...

They seemed to go back and forth as to whether either was a 4 or a 6, and whether the bore was 31/4 or 31/2...

An occasional misprint is common, but there were a whole bunch of these...

Then in the engines section of a 1924 piston catalog I find:

7000---4, 6, 8 cyl---31/4 bore

11000---4, 6 cyl---31/2 bore...as if these engines were issued in 4 and 6cyl versions (leave alone the V8)...

Both a 30 McCord and a 38 Vic gasket catalog show

7000---4cyl---31/2 bore

11000---6cyl---31/4 bore

Does anyone here know if H-S actually issued either of these engines in both 4 and 6 versions and/or in the two bores, or is this a case of

misprint contagion??

Hershell-Spillman 4 cyl. 3 1/4 X 5 16.9 hp

4 cyl. 3 1/2 X 5 19.6 hp

6 cyl. 3 1/4 X 5 24.35 hp

Herschell-Spillman also made a V-8 with 3" or 31/4 bore and 5" stroke. See link for an article on it.

http://books.google.com/books?id=sotMAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA928&lpg=PA928&dq=herschell-spillman+engine&source=bl&ots=O0BE-MlCld&sig=Bjn5h8STYqTlPalUYNI2TVHbibo&hl=en&sa=X&ei=IOA9VLbgJsngoASB64CADA&ved=0CEwQ6AEwCDgK#v=onepage&q=herschell-spillman%20engine&f=false

Many thxx for replies!!

GD: any H-S ID on those?? All of my stuff is by company designation...

On My H-S list i have I, JU (1917), 2700, 6600, 7000,11000 (1930), M326, 30, 90, 91(1936) for 4's (dates being the date of the catalog they first show up in)...

E, SA (1917) 7000, 11000 (1930)40, 41, 90, 91 (1936) for 6's...I don't pretend that list to be complete, it's just what show up in my old catalogs...7000, 11000, 90 and 91 appear on both lists as they're all listed in at least two catalogs as "4-6" in the cyl column...

My 1930 McCord gasket catalog also has a listing for a 6cyl 4x6 OHV (from the look of the head gasket) "used on Mitten-Traylor Gas Electric Model"...but I find nothing in the Std Cat or Mroz's US Truck Ency...There was a Traylor Truck co 1920-28, but no mention of any gas-elec...I'll have to Google it and see what comes up...

COMMODORE: Yes, nice piece!! Since that's the "V" 3x5, the "VA" 31/4 x5 must've come along a little later (have not yet read whole piece so may be mentioned in text)...

Again, many thxxfor replies.

Bud

From the research we have done related to H-S engines I would agree that the catalogs can be confusing. It appears that H-S themselves only built their 4 & 6 cylinder engines at their North Tonawanda plant, but H-S did not build the any of the V8 engines at their plant.

From the research we have done it appears that H-S gave the rights to manufacture their V8 engine to the Pittsburgh Model Engine Co (and they may have also given Peerless the rights to produce their own version of the H-S V8). Then in 1914 the Standard Steel Car Co. of Pittsburgh purchased the Pittsburgh Model Engine Co, along with the rights to produce the H-S V8 engine. Standard Steel Car Co. then produced the H-S V8 for their own use in their Standard Eight and also produced the V8 engine for sale to other vehicle manufacturers.

Butler Old Stone House Region

Haven't found anything further on the 4-6cyl question, so will assume just period catalog typos/misinformation---many of these catalog printers cribbed from each other, perpetuating errors...

The brief H-Sp history I found said their engines were in 60 or so makes; I'm up to around 90, and I'm sure that's far from complete...

Our archives at the Herschell Museum have precious little about the earlier HS engines but we do know this; prior to 1917 Chief Engineer Ed Spillman and his team designed and manufactured several four and six cylinder engines for many different applications, auto, marine, amusement rides and aviation. In 1917 the new model Spillman 4 and Spillman 6 engines were introduced and manufactured until the company went bankrupt in 1924. The v8 was introduced in 1915 and we have factory photos showing them being assembled in North Tonawanda as late as 1917. There are several newspaper and trade journal magazine clippings in the archives that indicate that HS turned over manufacturing rights for the V8 to Standard Steel Car Co. in April of 1919 probably so they could increase manufacturing capacity for the much more profitable four and six cyl. engines. We know that the HS factory in No. Ton. was heavily involved in the manufacture of the Liberty airplane engine from 1917 to 1918 so perhaps a great deal of V8 production could have shifted to the Model Engine plant in Pittsburgh during that time. If you have specific questions we are in the process of organizing the engine manufacturing related material we have and are discovering new info every time. Herschell was primarily a carousel manufacturer from 1885 to 1950 and the gas engine plant was never anywhere near as profitable so it was very short lived. I will be accessing the archives again, hopefully next week and may be able to help

jjd52: Many thxx for gracious reply...my personal interest is completely academic, my fickle curiosity piqued by someone on one of these old engine forums trying to ID an L-head/flathead 4cyl engine in a 1917 truck...

The only question I would have would be is if H-S engines left the factory with any kind of ID for repairmen and such, usually one of three types:

(a) a "tag", usually a 3x4 inch or so metal piece affixed to the block, stating maker, engine model, bore/stroke and serial #;

( some info, often engine model and serial #, stamped somewhere on engine, often on a polished "boss";

© some kind of H-S logo/ID mark cast, embossed or stamped into the block (of course, if the engine had "Hershell-Spillman" cast/embossed on it, that would be a dead giveaway)...

In partial recompense, if it would be of interest for your archives i could forward my own list of H-S engines (made from my old replacement engine parts catalogs), the catalog etc reference the listing appeared in, and/or my own list of vehicles that used H-S engines, made from the same sources, currently about 90 or so, with the engines listed under their names and sometimes approximate dates (these old parts catalogs are always incomplete, and all too often contradictory, but, still, better than nothing)...