antique cars appreciating in value

Which antique cars do you think are going to be the ones to appreciate in value in the coming years and the best investments, if that even exist in this hobby. I have been thinking about this lately and it is hard to say, kind of like the stock market.

There is no answer that is accurate. The overall economy in the country and the world will influence all investments. When people are without jobs the first thing to be sold is the toys. If people need money for food and mortgages and education they sure as hell are not going to invest in antique cars. If you are buying you better be buying for enjoyment because odds are you will never recoupe your investment. Buying to restore is insane as you will never get your money back.

Wayne

Buying to restore is insane as you will never get your money back.

Thats no lie, Even if you buy a car that is "sure" to go up in value, you will spend more then you will ever get out of it.

Buy the best car you can afford and enjoy it, dont buy it as an investment. Nothing worse then having cars under covers in the garage that dont get driven.

I've never considered antique cars as an investment, bought them because I liked them and enjoyed the pride of ownership.

If the question is slightly rephrased to "what car can I buy and probably get my money back, and possibly have an increase in value", then I'd say:

1. Buy a well known, respected make, Ford, Chevy, Packard, Pierce, Cadillac, Buick, and so forth, don't buy a car that is little known

2. Buy an excellent original low mileage car, needing no restoration, OR buy a completely finished high level restoration car

3. Buy the best car you can afford to pay for AND/OR you can afford to finance....a payment to a bank for a loan is much less expensive than paying chrome shops, trimmers, painters....

4. Have excellent storage for the car, heated and cooled....doesn't have to be to your comfort levels, but to the level to keep condensation and temperature extremes to a minimum

5. Do run the car and drive the car, respectfully and often...nothing worse on a car than sitting idle for ten years, seals dry up, things get stuck, and so forth

6. Do buy something you enjoy looking at, and enjoy driving, and even if you break even or lose a little money, that enjoyment and aforementioned pride of ownership makes it all worth it!

The above post is the best I have seen on this site in many years!

^ I agree with that entirely.

If you buy a car you didn't already love before you bought it you will never love it and it will just take up space.

I trade in old cars for a living, and I will tell you that going through, say, 60-70 cars a year isn't making me rich. I don't know that I would call any car an "investment." In 90% of the cases, if you can enjoy a car for five years and sell it for what you paid for it, you're doing well. The cars that have the potential to increase in value are already priced way out of the reach of most people. If you can buy a Ferrari Lusso at $1 million, do it, and I bet it'll be worth $1.3 million in a few years. Same with Gullwing Mercedes, almost anything with Figoni et. Falaschi coachwork, etc. But there aren't many real-world cars you can buy today with the idea of making a profit. There are massive investment "funds" grabbing up high-end cars as investment vehicles, professionally managed and traded like hedge funds, and even they are having trouble meeting even their most modest forecasts for profits. We need to get over this mindset that old cars are getting more valuable every year, because for the most part, they're not.

If I really had to name a list of reasonably affordable cars to buy today that may be worth more in five years, these are my recommendations:

1. Dodge Power Wagon. If you can find a nice one for under $30K, buy it and I'd be happy to turn it into $35K for you. These are really going crazy right now and if you've ever wished you were in the right place at the right time for one of those inexplicable price surges on a formerly affordable vehicle, this is your chance. Missed the Amphicar madness? The Mercedes 190SL appreciation curve? The Power Wagon is doing the same thing right this moment. Ride the wave instead of watching from the beach.

2. 1963-1965 Buick Riviera. They're not going to see a meteoric rise in values, but I bet they're worth a little more in five years than they are today, perhaps $1000/year appreciation for a good one.

3. 1990-1995 Corvette ZR-1, preferably a later one with 405 horsepower and low miles. Again, not a meteoric rise, but they've bottomed out and have nowhere to go but up from here.

4. Jeep CJ7. Not a CJ5, not a Wrangler. The CJ7 is still the gold standard of off-roaders and they've all been bashed, modified, or rusted to oblivion. Find a good, clean one and leave it alone and maybe it'll be worth a few bucks more in 5 years.

The truth is, it's a big mistake to look at any old car as an investment. It takes way too much in maintenance, insurance, storage, and other factors, all of which eat up your "profits," to be called a reasonable alternative to traditional investments. Think of it instead as a vacation--you don't go to Disneyland and come home an expect to sell your souvenirs at a profit, do you? Of course not. You make some memories with your family, you have fun, and you call the money spent as the price of fun. Hell, if we played golf, we'd spend almost as much money and have nothing but a sunburn and a hangover to show for it...

Old cars are not an investment. If you think they are, try driving down the road throwing $20s out the window of your car to get an idea of how the money flows when you own an ancient vehicle.

I trade in old cars for a living.......

If we played golf, we'd spend almost as much money and have nothing but a sunburn and a hangover to show for it...

.

Matt has found the secret to a good golf game! No wonder I'm so lousy at it. Wait! I don't play! :confused:

Seriously I do like your list though Matt. I have a C-2 Corvette that has increased in value, but the big thing has been meeting other Corvette lovers along the way.

Matt, you investment analysis is incorrect. It's driving down the road throwing $20's out of your 7-Passenger Phaeton while you drive, and being pleased when you get home to find a few landed in the back seat! Free Money!

I like the Mercedes SL convertibles of the seventies and eighties. There are some real nice examples out there now for cheap prices, they are a high quality, open roadster type car same as all the high price classics. The only reason they are still cheap, is they made so many of them. But one day the supply will dry up and prices will go the way of the 57 Tbird, 64 Mustang, and other classic convertibles.

In addition to being a high quality car they are very reliable and well made. If you buy a good example and maintain it well, you should be able to drive it on nice days for the next twenty years, and still have a good car. Plus the parts support is good both dealer and aftermarket.

On the SL's mentioned, just make sure you do your homework before buying one. There are some year specific mechanical issues that can manifest themselves as "bargain" appearing prices on certain years.

Also, be aware that repair parts can be dreadfully expensive, and if you price, let's say, a replacement hood and grill, you'll realize your insurance better be substantial.

Great drivers, though!

I have found Mercedes parts prices reasonable if you buy online from Autohaus in Arizona. OEM parts for a fraction of dealer price.

You are right about things like timing chains that are a known shortcoming in certain models, and body parts, interior etc can be very expensive.

But, prices are so low right now you might as well just buy the best one you can find and baby it for the next 20 years.

You won't find a cheap original 34 Packard roadster, 57 Tbird or Gullwing but the SL is as close as you will get.

Great posts everyone. I should not have really said investment. What I am looking for is a car that I can enjoy and later on sell for the same price I paid. If the value increases that will be seen as a bonus.

The sixties SL mentioned here is a good example. I remember not too long ago when you could find a nice one for $40,000. Now I see nice ones with asking prices of $70,000-$100,000+. That to me is a little insane.

The 1963-1965 Buick Riviera's that Matt mentioned are some that I have thought have the potential to increase in value.

You're correct on the SL's, great cars, had a '65 and loved it....lot's of fun!

The last time I personally knew I was buying a pretty good investment was back in '72. Although investment was not the main reason I bought it, it was just more "icing" on the cake. I bought a '56 Nomad in 1972 for $125. I sold it in 1982 for $3000 to help buy the place I'm still at now. Heck, now it's worth about $30,000 !!

Bill

Best way to make a small fortune on antique cars is to start with a large fortune.

Automobiles do not increase in value. The rise in prices is due to the DECREASE in the value of the dollar.

Aside from Matt's post, there's a pattern developing here that I've had personal experience with. Traditionally "foreign" cars are mainly the ones leading the value charge these days. There was once a stigma to owning a foreign car that is now gone, and if anything there's more of a panache to them than many of the competing domestic models (especially the more recent cars).

This is trickling down even to the lower echelons of the import car hobby. When my TR6 was totaled in an accident I was stunned at how much the value of the car had crept since I purchased it. I would not recommend doing it the way I did (I was lucky to survive the accident), but doubled my money in 8 years. Having the car means more to me the than the money, so I'm using the settlement right now to shop for another TR6, but it is a reality I'll have to live with.

If like me you own one of these cars (Triumph, MG, VW, Datsun, Alfa, Fiat, Honda, etc.), I strongly recommend that you revisit the agreed value of your insurance coverage for the car. It is stunning in some cases what a difference in value you can find in the value guides today vs. a 2007 or 2009 book! Keeping that insured value up to date is vital. Take my word for it!

I was talking about the open Mercedes roadsters from 1972 to 1989 which are now on the bargain table, much cheaper than the sixties "pagoda" models and MUCH MUCH cheaper than fifties Gullwings.

Decent examples are on offer from $5000 up. Once again, suggest you buy the best low mileage example even if it costs a little more.

Re: beware of the expensive parts and repairs, that is exactly what they said about Duesenbergs in 1952, Ferrari GTOs in 1975, Hemi Chargers in 1980, and every other old car when it was at the bottom of its depreciation curve.

By the way I am not predicting the Mercedes convertibles will go up the most, although every other open Mercedes has gone up eventually. I point them out because they are a high grade car with real steel, real chrome, real engines, real everything like the classics of the past, but they are still affordable.

I'm going to politely disagree with my friend Rusty about the R107 SLs, which are still going down in value in my experience. Two years ago, I could sell nice ones in the mid-20s, but I now have two for sale, a 450 around $20,000 and a late 560 with very low miles for around $30,000, and can't even get a single phone call on either car. Both are low-mileage, great colors, full service records from new, etc. They're totally the SLs you want to own. I've had offers around $14-16,000 on the 450, which is probably the right price today.

Look at eBay and they're all in the low teens and anything over $18-20K is sitting with 0 bids. If you were at Hershey, you saw 28 (yes TWENTY EIGHT, I counted) of them in the car corral, outnumbering every other type of car by a wide, wide margin.

They made thousands and thousands of them, a great many were purchased as second cars and have low miles, few were used in the winter since they're terrible in the snow anyway, and everyone figured they'd be collectable someday, so they took care of them. They're bulletproof reliable if they're well maintained, but a cheap SL is the most expensive car you can possibly own.

It's probably true that once the Pagoda SLs hit the stratosphere we'll start to see some minor gains on the R107s, but they'll undoubtedly be very modest simply because there are so many nice ones out there. Like 2-seat Thunderbirds, they're almost all nice and they're almost all for sale at the same time.

SLs are great cars, fun to drive, very attractive, and your neighbors will still think you hit the lottery with it parked in your driveway, but they're a long way from being investment grade. I would give them a D or an F for investment, but an A or a B for fun-to-own quotient. I would love to be wrong, because I have two I need to unload. But my quiet phone says otherwise.

If you can afford to pay a few million for a cheap Ferrari you might break even or make a buck.

None, would be my guess. I'm planning to do some buying over the next 20 years. And I'm an old guy. 90% of what I own that has value came from the Reagan days. Economic conditions over the next 15 years will make a lot of dream cars available to ready buyers at reasonable prices.

We are moving into a time of great technological advancements with little capital to invest in the machines to provide the technology. Wealthy has already been defined as anyone not living on a government subsidy and businesses, (job) creators, are stigmatized and discouraged more than ever before.

If one buys a very desirable car today they will be stuck maintaining it until the value starts inching up around 2030. I'm in, but I just buy cars because I like them.

Bernie

Antique cars are no different than collector plates, prints, baseball cards, Royal Daltons or even Bennie Babies. There is only a value if you have another buyer for it. We are going through a generation change and the next generation will collect computer games, cellphones, blue jeans or what ever they are interested in. But not old cars they will go on the wayside like other past collectables. Just my thoughts.

Buying to restore is insane as you will never get your money back.

Thats no lie, Even if you buy a car that is "sure" to go up in value, you will spend more then you will ever get out of it.

Buy the best car you can afford and enjoy it, dont buy it as an investment. Nothing worse then having cars under covers in the garage that dont get driven.

Doesn't that depend on what kind of a car person your talking about. There are car people who collect cars and know nothing about them and never get their hands dirty and PAY for everything to be done, and I would agree those types of people if they are not well off ( to know what and when to buy) will never get money out of their efforts.

There are others, myself included who might have been in the auto industry or have gone to school for job specialties in the automotive field who do the work themselves. The antique car club I belong to and most of the guys I hang with know how to do the work ourselves, and if one of us for example myself, who does not know my way around a sewing machine can barter the friend who does upholstery and build a engine or a automatic for him in turn is the way we get things done. The more you can do yourself the more money you can save.

The problem today for the hobbies future is with the young kids. You have the uppity type who think this work is beneath them and the other kids who have no opportunity. When I was a kid I got a lot of knowledge from my dad, and in JH & HS school had the shop classes in Electric, Print, Drafting, Metal-Casting, tool and die making, Pattern making , Welding, Auto shop, Auto Machine shop, Wood shop, Body & Paint shop , Photo, Photo Engraving. That was all in the L.A. Unified school district. Today there is nothing.

If you want to make the car collecting more enjoyable, affordable, fulfilling and the ability to pass the car thing to your kids, then learn as much to do the process yourself, and start hanging around with the people who know how to do the work and learn from them.

I can't wrap my head around people who pay others to have EVERYTHING done.

I not going to be stupid and say getting your hands dirty working on your own cars is all fun because there are a multitude of things that are anything but fun........but the satisfaction outweighs all else.

I don't know how one can attain any level of satisfaction with something everyone but you did....... :confused: .......aside from being so loaded you don't HAVE to do anything.......

I'm going to politely disagree with my friend Rusty about the R107 SLs, which are still going down in value in my experience. Two years ago, I could sell nice ones in the mid-20s, but I now have two for sale, a 450 around $20,000 and a late 560 with very low miles for around $30,000, and can't even get a single phone call on either car. Both are low-mileage, great colors, full service records from new, etc. They're totally the SLs you want to own. I've had offers around $14-16,000 on the 450, which is probably the right price today.

Look at eBay and they're all in the low teens and anything over $18-20K is sitting with 0 bids. If you were at Hershey, you saw 28 (yes TWENTY EIGHT, I counted) of them in the car corral, outnumbering every other type of car by a wide, wide margin.

They made thousands and thousands of them, a great many were purchased as second cars and have low miles, few were used in the winter since they're terrible in the snow anyway, and everyone figured they'd be collectable someday, so they took care of them. They're bulletproof reliable if they're well maintained, but a cheap SL is the most expensive car you can possibly own.

It's probably true that once the Pagoda SLs hit the stratosphere we'll start to see some minor gains on the R107s, but they'll undoubtedly be very modest simply because there are so many nice ones out there. Like 2-seat Thunderbirds, they're almost all nice and they're almost all for sale at the same time.

SLs are great cars, fun to drive, very attractive, and your neighbors will still think you hit the lottery with it parked in your driveway, but they're a long way from being investment grade. I would give them a D or an F for investment, but an A or a B for fun-to-own quotient. I would love to be wrong, because I have two I need to unload. But my quiet phone says otherwise.

Thank you so much Matt, for CONFIRMING WHAT I JUST SAID, that this model of Mercedes is on the bargain table.

When you can buy a Mercedes convertible for the price of a Toyota Corolla, with low miles, service history, in excellent condition, how good do you want it?

I am not saying they can't go lower and I am not saying they will ever go up in value. I am saying they are a high quality car comparable to the classics of yore, and that if you get a good one and maintain it you should be able to enjoy it for 20 years at minimal expense which is what the original question was about.

If the above is not crystal clear, let me put it another way. If you truly appreciate fine cars, and are a classic car fan, you can buy this model of Mercedes convertible for the price of a Toyota. You may not be able to afford a Duesenberg or a Gullwing, but you can afford the next best thing.

As I am not the Amazing Kreskin I can't guarantee they will ever go up. But every open car Mercedes ever made has gone up eventually.

Best way to make a small fortune on antique cars is to start with a large fortune.

My dad just got a big kick out of this quote.

I think Matt is spot on and woefully disagree with Rusty...........

I own a 75 450 sl and love it-a nice driver with both tops-will take you from Jersey to LA in a heartbeat, but they made a hell of a lot of these-rust is a huge issue on these cars and I dont see many people getting excited about getting 10-12 mph. Yes, that is what they get! I would guess them to be a bad investment in the future as well as now. I will sell this navy blue with palomino interior now for 2500.

who wants it..............? Just as I thought............ a lot of hot air.

If I were to fill a garage up with an undervalued car, it would be mid year vettes in the 35-40k range. yes, a decent example can be bought for that price and compared with the 280sls, offer much more bang for the buck. A few years ago, it was the opposite. Germany was not doing well, but they are doing better today then we are and so, they are buying the 60's sls back in droves. Will not happen with the 450s

and up cars in my lifetime, and I am only 54.

Buy a nice mid year vette-when America ever lands back on its feet, you will have a nice investment and an easy car to work on mechanically and buy parts for.

you all know you get money back on your classic cars in time-only fine points judging breaks the bank for resale.

People do not restore old cars in general anymore as they just assemble them. At one time we used to repair an original fender and now you just buy one made in China and bolt it on. You can buy anything for a Camaro or a complete 1953 Chevy pickup body and to my this is not restoring a car. I do agree that I would rather have a car with a fender with a ripple in it and say I restored it than say I payed to have that done perfectly.

And we are not even talking about the air bag suspension of these cars that costs twice the value of the cars to replace. They are cheap for a reason and NOT a car i would ever reccomend to a friend. Anyone who says so has never dealt with one. Mercedes collectors don't buy them, they sell them. Well said Matt, truer words are not often spoken. As far as what to buy.. buy what you love, all else is bought for the wrong reason.

I also thought the Mercedes SL's R107 would increase in value in the future because they are convertibles but Matt brings up some go points. They made a lot of them, there are always a ton for sale and there are a lot of well preserved examples. Matt must know what he is talking about, he has two for sale and is in the business.

People do not restore old cars in general anymore as they just assemble them. At one time we used to repair an original fender and now you just buy one made in China and bolt it on. You can buy anything for a Camaro or a complete 1953 Chevy pickup body and to my this is not restoring a car. I do agree that I would rather have a car with a fender with a ripple in it and say I restored it than say I payed to have that done perfectly.

Buying panels from the far east can cause more grief than anything you would expect. The gauge of metal is thinner, and the body lines don not line up. A friend did a rt rear quarter panel on his 66 GTO and ended up taking the panel back to the supplier. After that was over it took three donor cars to finally find a good enough one to use, but that one needed a patch panel because of rust and some dent removal.

My official join date into the car hobby was September 1959. The hobby's history started publicly in 1937 when James Melton drove an "antique car" in the New York City Easter Parade that year. Five years later the world was at war. The post-war wealth allowed individuals and groups of former Army buddies to kick in the $50 or so to buy a Model A Ford full of boyhood dreams. Sears, J. C. Whitney, and a host of cottage industries fed their dreams by providing spare parts.

Four generations have come through the hobby during the last 60 years, each bringing it's own social and economical contributions. Socially, we have seen recognition of history replaced with the customization of "my" tastes and "I" rise about the community in cars and other facets of life.

When one has a condition characterized by an extreme intuition about all things mechanical and electrical, the car hobby is dynamic and adaptable enough to satisfy the die hards and live on.

Take long walks and eat right so you can see what develops.

Bernie

Mercer can you give me more details of condition, mileage, any repairs needed? At that price I would be tempted to buy it even though I don't need any more cars.

I have enjoyed the thread. I like the way Bernie Daily has condensed eighty years of the history of the hobby. I think there will always be a market for the best cars, regardless of make. Restored cars not withstanding, the cars that I like the best are the unrestored originals. Original paint and upholstery in a low mileage garage kept cars will always be in demand. These cars don't need the thousand plus hours of work required to restore them, and if winning trophies is not the goal, then the little flaws can be overlooked, call it patina. With the original car history is huge plus. The story has become such a large part of the hobby that not perusing the cars history, when the trail is still warm, can be a great mistake. I know that no matter how good the original paint and interior is on some of my untouched cars, they will never be competitive for a trophy. What I like to do is provide information regarding the cars survival. I sometimes type the story on a piece of paper which I tape to the side window. Real car people appreciate the story and often discuss the car with others and before you know it the car really has a following. I find it exciting to watch how a car takes on a life of its own, and how strangers will remember the car, sometimes years later.

Investment? If you're sharp, spend at least a couple hrs a day, 7 days a week reviewing sales figures, have the real estate to store them in good order, then the word investment might apply. Back in the late 80s you could buy a well restored open Model A Ford for right around $20K max. Usually mid to high teens was the real price. Say you bought 10 of them and kept them up, enjoyed all they had to offer, each was still in show condition, what you have today? More $$$$? You just might since back then real parts were used more often than the repop stuff so prevailent in today's restorations. Do you remove the rent, heat, insurance costs? Maybe yes, maybe no. But let's forget the cherished Model A.

It's 1982. You can shag up ANY big block muscle car in what we call today "survivor" condition for well under $10K. That includes HEMI Mopars and even the occasional Boss 429. Say you bought $50K worth of those fuel thristy monsters, drained them of their fluids, put em in the air, fogged their engines, essentially did what you had to do to make sure they'll light up and run today. If you bought the right ones you might have $500K or more today. Was it worth the effort? Sure it was. What else would you do? Invest in real estate? Play on Wall St where some pimple-faced prick cooked the books and stole your loot? That little bastid can't do that to your cars, can he?

There are better ways to invest money than in cars. If you want to do car investments you better be sharp, better know what's hot and why, better dump when the fever is rising instead of "...I'll hold out, it has to go higher..." because more times than not it doesn't. Bubbles burst, trends change, certain things become more HISTORICALLY SIGNIFICANT with time, some become oddities. What's a $250K billet-laiden street rod worth today? Not even close to what someone built in 1951 or 1961 and kept it like new since. Not even as much as some notable survivor customs. And as all of that has been said, did we ever think we'd see $4,000,000 price tags on a Corvette? Sure, there's only 20-some of those ever built, but holy butt munch, IT'S A FREAKIN CHEVY! I won't even begin to talk about the same amount for a Hamtramk dumpster because it's a HEMI. Yes, I called a HEMI 'Cuda conv a dumpster. Ever drive one? I did for the better part of a year and was glad to sell it, although mine was a 70 383 4spd cpe. I had $1500 in it and dumped it for $6,750 to buy a house, so that should tell the era I sold it.

Kool topic, who's next?

I can't wrap my head around people who pay others to have EVERYTHING done.

I not going to be stupid and say getting your hands dirty working on your own cars is all fun because there are a multitude of things that are anything but fun........but the satisfaction outweighs all else.

I don't know how one can attain any level of satisfaction with something everyone but you did....... :confused: .......aside from being so loaded you don't HAVE to do anything.......

A wise man realizes that we all have our limitsand expertise. Many times when a person attempts something beyond their expertise it ends up costing more.

I remember seeing a sign in a repair shop that said " our fix it rate is doubled if you attempted a fix and failed " !

Wayne

A wise man realizes that we all have our limitsand expertise. Many times when a person attempts something beyond their expertise it ends up costing more.

I remember seeing a sign in a repair shop that said " our fix it rate is doubled if you attempted a fix and failed " !

Wayne

I can do most everything myself on most any car. I'd love to be able to just write the checks, but perhaps that might be an unfair advantage since I have the years on the other side of such a thing. "Do what you love and you'll never work a day in your life." BULLSH---, uh, BALONEY!!! Sorry, almost went into character there...

^ With you all the way on THAT one!........ ........no way anything you LOVE to do is fun ALL the time........ :mad:

There are many roads to Rome as they say and one's approach to the old car hobby depends on the circumstances of the individual - whether hands-on or check writer.