Typically how long does a complete body restoration take?

Typically how long should it take a professional to complete a full body restoration on a classic car? Not mechanical, strictly the body work. What would this cost roughly if they need to repair rust and/or do some metal fabrication?

1 year for a customer who pays his bills promptly. Cost $20000 to $150000.

1 year for a customer who pays his bills promptly. Cost $20000 to $150000.

Thank you for the insight.

What sort of things should i be looking for when shopping around for a reputable body shop to do the job? I live in Austin, TX. There's a few local places I checked out online but i was a bit wary of them because i did not see very many before and after pics of their work. How can i find the very best that are sure to do the job right? Are there any restorers who post on this site? I'd prefer to have it done in Texas but I'd be willing to spend a little extra via shipping my car to the right man for the job.

What is the car?

Typically how long should it take a professional to complete a full body restoration on a classic car? .......What would this cost roughly if they need to repair rust and/or do some metal fabrication?

Edit

Guess this is the car http://forums.aaca.org/f190/1968-dodge-charger-total-restoration-project-380368.html

Go for a Mopar specialist. Look and ask on Mopar web sites

It would be helpful if the type of car is stated. There is no typical in restoration, especially when dealing with rust and panel fabrication & replacement. When seeking a shop get references and ask previous customers one question: Would you have that shop do another car for you? It is more important to find the right shop for your car rather than locality. Panel fabrication, body prep, and paint could range from 600 to 1,000 hours or more. Do the math at an average rate of $80-$100.

This is a very broad question to answer. The specific car in question would change how much it costs and how long it takes. An older car that's fairly solid with a few minor rust issues(pre-1942) is a lot different than a unibody car from the '60's with rust in key structural components. Also, replacement panels are available for most cars 1960 up, most trucks 1950 up, while the main replacement panels available for pre-1942 are some Ford and a few Chevy.

Replacing metal is labor intensive, and for best results you need someone who does it correctly, cuts out old rusty metal completely and replaces with new metal.

Once the body is repaired, paint preparation is the key to a fine paint job. The numbers being used in my area are $5000 for a paint job that you don't want to get within 10 feet of, $10,000 for a very nice job that you wouldn't be afraid to drive and judge at local shows, and $20,000 if you plan to show the car and not have points at any major show deducted for paint.

We're a long way off in PA so I can comment without seeming to low ball you to get the job but we need to know what car it is and what your ultimate goal is. AACA Grand National First? Driver quality? The Devil is in the details.

Yup, This is what I call a Loaded Question. Agree with others that a lot hinges on type of car and condition, condition, condition. Dandy Dave!

Wendal ,

Do not choose a shop that does collision work as a mainstay. You will forever be pushed aside for that very important job that needs to be done by Friday.

It is very hard to justify the money spent in a restoration shop if you are not sitting there all day long watching the progress. In one week, the shop may remove and reinstall one fender ten times in order to get it, and the adjcent parts just right. All you will see if you stop in once a week is that one fender has been worked on and is now looking good.

Pardoxily, the more work that is put into a part will result in less evidence of work performed on that part.

The reason that restoration work costs so much is that most body shops profit comes from the sale of parts and not labor. As there is no sale of parts, profit must come from increased labor rates.

All you will think is that you have worked at your job all week for $995 and he is charging you $3600 for one weeks work.

This is not to say that there is $2605 in profit, overhead takes a large part of that.)

If the car is very bad you would save a lot of time and money by selling it and buying a car that is already done.

The car in question is a 1968 Dodge Charger.

Here are lots of photos of the car.

http://forums.aaca.org/f190/1968-dodge-charger-total-restoration-project-380368.html

As you can see there's quite a bit of rust.

I agree with the above. Avoid a "body shop" like the black plague. The difference in production vs restoration is almost too much to put into words. While there are indeed replacement panels available for 60s cars, I can tell you from hands-on experience that most are pure garbage to work with. The shape is close, it "looks like" the right part, and there is where it ends. The metal is typically .015 less than the OEM which makes doing a proper butt weld nearly a masochistic endeavor. Now that it's been welded in place the filling required to get it to look right is disgusting. In order to get by this it's a better choice to spend the time and trouble of locating a western no rust part supplier, get and restore an OEM piece before it gets installed. I typicaly refuse to put "import" panels on 60s cars, and I personally can't justify the added expense required. There's so much to consider in restoration that this is a hard question to answer. I've done it for the better part of 40yrs and have made many friends and happy clients along the way. I've found it best to establish a partnership with the client. Not finacial, but the goal and the journey. You have to feel as though you and your chosen craftsman are pulling the same rope in the same direction. The money is a moot point. Everything costs $$$$ and more than in days past. How much is a simple gallon of gas these days? That should answer why a gallon of premium clear costs nearly $400/pkg, and you'll need 2. Add up primers, sealers, fillers, seam sealants, polishes and compounds, all with PETROLEUM DISTILLATES in them. $2500 is a low estimate for materials alone and there's not much left at the end of it all.

Does this help? Is it good news or bad? I just opened a shop this month, again, after I sort of semi-retired due to demand. My introductory rate for full restoration is much lower than the national average, and not because I'm trolling for work, more like a bit of "give back" to a community that has served me well for the better part of my professional career. Good luck with your search, and references are everything. My mission statement is simple. "Where you'd send a friend." That should say it clear enough, no? If I can help drop a PM and I'll do my best.

The only suggestion I have to offer is go to local shows. Not so local if necessary. Look cars over carefully. Most shops can get the details right, engine compartment, interiors but many can not get the bodywork and paint right. To me, that's most important! You don't want to spend thousands and end up with body waves and unflat paint. When you see the right car, the one that stands out among the others, ask who did it.................

With the car you pictured you are not talking the amount of money in numbers but in cubic yards................Bob

There are 10 major panels on a car plus the floor pan and the trunk pan. Figure 4 days per panel @ 8 hour days with a rate of $100 per hour. Then double it for a 50/50 labor to materials cost; $76,800. With a car a 20% contingency fund is advisable; $92,160 if you are farming the whole job out and expect perfection in a timely manner.

Create a gantt chart for a 120 schedule. Agree on payment based on percentage completed through a written contract with inspections by a qualified project manager or yourself with all rights to reclaim the vehicle for failure of performance.

Stop in for coffee sometime and I will tell you the story of the 28 year Bentley restoration.

Option 2; how long will it take you to develop those skills, even if you have to redo some of your work a few times?

Bernie

Here is an interesting perspective. Most of us old guys are baby boomers at or approaching retirement age. Our average life's earnings for social security can be right around $2,000,000. 40% went to taxes. Did you spend 10% of the net on your hobby and end up with one nice car?

Bernie

Wendal,

I looked at the pics.

Unless you have an intimate, long-standing relationship with this car, AND you can't live without it, I wholeheartedly agree with Rusty, Bhigdog and Bernie.

Sell it and buy the best Dodge Charger you can afford.

If I had done that, I would have been driving around for the last 5 years rather than putting in 3 times what my car is worth for a restoration project that still sits in my garage.

Thanks for the pictures. Sorry, but to restore that thing will result in you leaving the hobby long before it's done. The costs involved will far exceed the value of the car before you see any real progress. Your previous question had great advice given that you should spend you money by buying a better car to start with. I'm sorry to be negative but it's a fact of life in this hobby that looses many potential happy participants.

I wonder if Wendal is actually a 13 year old just playing with us?

Thanks for the pictures. Sorry, but to restore that thing will result in you leaving the hobby long before it's done. The costs involved will far exceed the value of the car before you see any real progress. Your previous question had great advice given that you should spend you money by buying a better car to start with. I'm sorry to be negative but it's a fact of life in this hobby that looses many potential happy participants.

I wonder if Wendal is actually a 13 year old just playing with us?

Well to answer your question, no I am not a 13 year old trolling.

Inexperienced when it comes to cars? Very.

I just completed a checkbook restoration for a friend. I started with a nearly rust-free car and spent whatever it took to make it right. The cost was heart-stopping. I don't know that I could ever be on the check-writing side of the equation. That's why I buy my show cars done.

Keep this in mind. The rule of thumb is that the only ones that makes out on a check-book restoration is the restorer and the next owner.

There's a reason that car looks like it does and hasn't been restored to keep up with the wave of Mopar Madness going through the hobby. With your plans of an engine swap and other upgrades, you're looking at a restoration/build cost deep into six-figure territory. We recently sold a '68 Charger resto-mod that was a lot like what you're describing that you want. They started with a very, very clean car, spent more than a quarter-million dollars on it, and ended up with a car that we sold for about half that much. I think there was $60,000 in the bodywork alone, and all they had to do was quarter panels. The builder got crushed financially yet someone bought a screaming bargain.

Before:

$277,000 later:

Bottom line: if you can't afford a finished Charger, you definitely can't afford to restore one. Sorry.

The last car I sent out for paint took 5 years, The one before that took 3 1/2 years. I made swaps for this work, it had been cash I could not have afforded it.

GET A SIGNED CONTRACT WITH ALL THE DETAILS !!!!!!!!!!!!

Quite honestly i am beginning to feel a bit of buyers remorse on my 1968 Charger. I made a previous thread asking for advice when buying a classic Charger and many suggested I not buy a rust bucket. Well, I bought one anyway because i wanted to get something i could afford without using credit cards or cleaning out my savings. But now I'm thinking I should have just waited and saved a bit more and bought something without so much rust.

Now I'm thinking about putting it back on eBay and selling it even if i have to take a bit of a loss. Then saving up more money and getting something that won't end up turning into a money pit.

Good move.

Good move.

I second that.

I was at a car show in Winnipeg and had a rather lengthy discussion with a shop owner out of Edmonton that was specializing in restoring (not rodding) old muscle cars. He insisted that the cars be fairly straight and as rust free as possible, and nothing came in the doors unless the owner could come up with the $130k base price for the work. Special issues (like missing parts) or changes were over and above that amount. This is why guys learn to restore their own in the back yard, or just buy the car they want.

I second that.

Third

Your car received 65 bids on ebay. Somebody will buy it for close to what you paid or maybe even more! Move quickly if you can.

Interesting to pick 13 years old. I got my first car when I was 12. It was a 1949 Plymouth. When I was 13 I pretty much knew enough to stay away from Chrysler products. :)

Bernie

Maybe Wendal should tell us more what's driving his quest for a 1970 Dodge. I read on some online news source recently that a specific movie featured a 1970 Charger, almost as a main character. Maybe it was "Fast and Furious" or "Gone In 60 Seconds"( I haven't seen either and don't know anybody who has), or even "Bullitt" with a 1968 Charger. Nothing wrong with getting inspiration from a movie, but the film industry is really pretty bad about realism with their cars. He could go to some car shows, talk to actual owners, and he'll eventually find something he wants after talking to some guys who've "been there and done that."

I was looking at cars for sale like that just now, and found one for sale 4 years ago on Bring A Trailer that might have filled the bill. Somebody in Ft. Worth had a fake Dodge Charger Daytona for $15,000. It had a 318 and the Daytona parts were added...but the seller was being honest about it and you could have driven from Dallas to Austin on one tank of gas. Not sure you could do that with one of those 440s!

Your car received 65 bids on ebay. Somebody will buy it for close to what you paid or maybe even more! Move quickly if you can.

Yeah i did get that many bids. I was the very last one to bid in the last two hours. I wasn't going to go over $9,000 but no one outbid me. At the time i was ecstatic i won. I was dancing. Now.....not so much. I'd be happy to break even but hey who knows maybe I'll even make a profit.

The car in question is a 1968 Dodge Charger.

Here are lots of photos of the car.

http://forums.aaca.org/f190/1968-dodge-charger-total-restoration-project-380368.html

As you can see there's quite a bit of rust.

If the car is very bad you would save a lot of time and money by selling it and buying a car that is already done.

Sage advice from Rusty

Maybe Wendal should tell us more what's driving his quest for a 1970 Dodge. I read on some online news source recently that a specific movie featured a 1970 Charger, almost as a main character. Maybe it was "Fast and Furious" or "Gone In 60 Seconds"( I haven't seen either and don't know anybody who has), or even "Bullitt" with a 1968 Charger. Nothing wrong with getting inspiration from a movie, but the film industry is really pretty bad about realism with their cars. He could go to some car shows, talk to actual owners, and he'll eventually find something he wants after talking to some guys who've "been there and done that."

I was looking at cars for sale like that just now, and found one for sale 4 years ago on Bring A Trailer that might have filled the bill. Somebody in Ft. Worth had a fake Doge Charger Daytona for $15,000. It had a 318 and the Daytona parts were added...but the seller was being honest about it and you could have driven from Dallas to Austin on one tank of gas. Not sure you could do that with one of those 440s!

I've always loved muscle cars, for a long time it was the '71 Camaro i wanted, and a '69 Chevelle. My passion for Dodge Chargers first came to me after seeing the movie Christine. Even though it wasn't shown much in film it was definitely the coolest muscle car in the movie. And seeing Arnie's love affair he had with his '58 Plymouth Fury was always moving to me. It inspired me to want to learn more and build my very own classic car. So maybe it was initially movie inspired. But like you said, there's movies and then there's reality. And reality is telling me building a Dodge Charge from the ground up with my limited knowledge and budget is virtually impossible. Maybe it could be done but it'd probably take me 10 to 15 years (or longer) and drain me. '

Funny enough, I wasn't even considering a Charger when i recently began to get serious about restoring a car. I wanted a '80-'84 Cadillac Deville. A Charger was always my main passion but i knew how expensive they were and I always loved those old time boats and it would have been much more affordable. But then out of mere curiosity I decided to see how much CHarger's were going for on eBay and i saw that i could afford to buy a rust bucket and then i was once again hooked on them. I should have heed everyone's advice when they told me to buy a Charger that's in solid condition opposed to some rust bucket that will have to be darn near completely re-done. And I should have done my research before purchasing. It was an impulse buy. Oh well, you live and learn. And hopefully i won't take it up the arse too hard when I sell it.

Now my plan is to sell the car, try to get my money back (or at least most), spend another year saving up another $10,000 (hopefully i can have close to $20,000) start collecting more tools and such, do more research then next summer try to find a 70 Charger that is in good condition.

This is merely a speed bump. The childhood dream of owning a 1970 Dodge Charger lives on.

Wise choice!

When you think you want to get married, let us know. We can help with that decision too.

Wise choice!

When you think you want to get married, let us know. We can help with that decision too.

lol I'll keep that in mind.

Some of you are fairly hard on us craftsmen. I've done 2 complete Mopar restorations minus mechanical. One scored a "Silver" in 1000pt judging, missing a "Gold" by 25pts. The 25pts were for dirt, missing the color codes on the rear axle and a ground strap from the firewall to the 426 HEMI under the hood. None of those were in my deal as the owner wanted to do the final build. It was a 69 Road Runner that needed both 1/4 panels, serious metal straightening on the doors, floor work and 1 partial rocker panel. Including engine installation and running the body wiring harness there was just under 1000 hrs in the body and about 150hrs for detailed OEM assembly of the K member, harness and instrument panel. The rest was on him like window regulators and glass, weather stripping, interior, and all the other incidentals that make a National Champion restoration. Materials ran about $1500 give or take a few and all out sourced things like chrome and incidental part restoration was on him as well. Back then my shop rate was $45/hr. Did he get sodomized or did he get "his car" his way? He sent me a HEMI Charger next that I only did body restoration, K member and rear axle installation. The car came from a shop that had it for 2yrs and their frame repair (mild hit to the left front) amounted to bumping the crush in the sub rail and skinning it with mud (!) vs having it tied to a frame rack and having it pulled. Finished in B7 blue with a white vinyl top and white bumble bee stripe (also on me), there were 500 and some hrs in that one. It was painted as a completely assembled body so that all the areas missed by the OEM were duplicated like near the door hinges and under the front fenders. Big car to be running around with gun in hand and opening and closing doors, hood and deck, no?

I suppose I'll always defend restoration as the life has been very good to me and my family. I've made a lot of friends and long term relationships over 4 decades. In some of my specialized skills I still have 100% customer satisfaction since 1973. All of us (restoration techs) seem to get a bad rap now and then because we have to be paid, and most of us have seen "backyard" restorations come in too. All I can say in defense of this craft is that it's one sure way to know EXACTLY what you have. I'm sure these 1 week wonder shows and build/sell fantasies that make TV fun for car guys have an effect on a few folks. Yes, I have been asked why it takes so long when they do it on TV in a week. 30+ people around the clock at $100/hr is $72K minimum. Add the hrs behind the scenes of building or securing an engine, having the interior and glass ready ahead of time, the cost when it's "Christmas" and all the new stuff comes from suppliers, those builds are $150K on the low side. It's not a practice for the faint of wallet to be sure, but I won't advise someone to spend like that on some 307 2bbl Camaro vs a gennie COPO, or to dump 6 figures in a Packard 120 4dr instead of an earlier Senior series. And you think restoration is bad? Stay away from professional street rod and "Pro Touring" builds. $100K is a good garage full of parts before the 1st piece of sandpaper gets folded. It's surely NOT for everyone, only those who have a vision and the means to see it through in every detail.

We have also learned a few things thru 35 years in the restoration business. We never offer an opinion on what a customer's car is worth either before or after restoration. We do advise customers that with rare exceptions they can buy a restored car much less expensively than having one restored. We look at it this way...we offer our services at as reasonable an hourly rate as we can. A customer is free to buy as many or as few of our hours as they wish. If they buy enough hours to finish the restoration that's great. We hate to see cars leave unfinished but it happens sometimes. When customers start getting pains in their wallet we tell them we will sympathize with them but it won't change what we charge. We have also learned that even those customers who claim that they only want a "driver" will likely have the car registered for a show before the last piece of chrome is bolted on the car. We recently finished a full restoration of a '59 Caddy Conv. The owner swore he would be the exception and would NEVER show the car. Now 2 years or so later the car has been thru AACA Judging in NY, Tennessee and of course Hershey and has won Firsts at CLC Grand Nationals in Ohio and Massachusetts and the owner is dismayed that there aren't more shows to take it to. I started out as a hobbyist and still am at heart. Restoration has provided me with a decent life style and I still look forward to coming to the shop and that's worth something. I have been allowed to "play" with cars I never could hope to own and most importantly have met many interesting people.

Good work costs money, it's like that in any industry. Great restoration shops are great because they do great work and because people recommend them. Not for free. Of course, very few cars are "worth" putting that amount of money into. My car was way too far gone and way too undesirable to pay anyone to touch it, but I'm doing it all myself, and with the help of a parts car that was perfect for what I needed, I'll come out about even if I ever want to sell it. If I can sell enough extra parts, I'll be in great shape, but I have places to put things, so fortunately for me, I can do this.

A man could do this Charger himself and come out ok if he had the time, tools, and resources. However, this buyer does not have those 3 things, so this was not the right car. At least it's a desirable car and he can get a lot, if not all, of his money back. People want Dodge Chargers. People don't want 1939 Buick Special sedans lol.

"People want Dodge Chargers. People don't want 1939 Buick Special sedans lol"

When I got out of the Navy three hundred years ago, I had a family and was trying to put myself through college. I worked under a lift at a local Dodge dealer and put a lot of brakes, exhaust systems and oil changes on Chargers. I've seen all the Dodge Chargers I care to see. I'd take a 1939 Buick Special sedan all day long.

"People want Dodge Chargers. People don't want 1939 Buick Special sedans lol"

When I got out of the Navy three hundred years ago, I had a family and was trying to put myself through college. I worked under a lift at a local Dodge dealer and put a lot of brakes, exhaust systems and oil changes on Chargers. I've seen all the Dodge Chargers I care to see. I'd take a 1939 Buick Special sedan all day long.

Me too obviously, that's why I have one , but there isn't '39 Buick of any kind getting 65 bids on eBay. Those who appreciate the old cars like we do are harder to find in this world.