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Reatta survival rates


Barney Eaton

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Just received the 2014 registration numbers from R.L.Polk Co. It will take some time to get them in a summary but her is a snapshot for 1991 convertibles.

There were 305 make, some were scrapped or donated and those will never be registered. I believe the number that went on the road was 247.

In 2010 Polk had 184 registered in the US. In 2012 they show 182 registered. 2014 number is 155, a sizeable drop from 2012.

Looking at percent remaining it can be calculated two ways....(1) against the 305 original build number or my 247 number.... I will list it 305/247

2010 = 60.3%/74.5%, 2012 = 59.7%/73.7%, 2014 = 50.8%/62.7%

Michigan has the most Reattas registered at 769, Ohio = 694, Florida = 490, Illinois = 459, California = 412

Hopefully a complete summary will be in the next Reatta newsletter.

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Barney,

Interesting info regarding the "homes" of the Reattas. It always seemed to me that Ohio seemed to have more than its "fair share" of Reattas. Now your numbers confirm it. I'd often wondered how the cars were dispersed and whether geography had much, if anything, to do with where they ended up. Thanks for the info. I'm not much of a stats. man but I think I'll find the complete summary interesting.

John F.

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Well I did my part to keep the 91 roadster numbers up (by one). The one I bought in March, while worthy of being put back into shape IMO probably would have been a parts car for most buyers. Interesting to see these most recent numbers.

I suspect the 91 'verts will have the highest survival rate as most are probably in "enlightened" hands.. I want to see how 88 and 91 coupes are faring these days. Seems like the herd is being culled pretty heavily the last two years.

KDirk

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I did a "quickie" on the '88's and there is a 35% drop from 2012. The derelicts are being scrapped or put out to pasture for parts cars and not registered.

There were 4,708 Reattas built in 1988, by 2008 (one of the first reports I received from Polk) that number was down to 2,743, 2010 down to 2,406, 2012 down to 2106, and now in 2014 the is 1,370.... that is 29% of the original build remaining.

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Guest Kitskaboodle

I am willing to wager that despite our favorable climate and no salt on our roads, California Reatta's probably still have a high scrap/attrition rate. Not because of rust but because of not passing smog due to our strict 2 year smog program and the "tightening" of the max pollutant numbers. I have seen many Reatta's in the local yards and Im thinking, "why is this car here? It looks to be in good overall shape". :( Kit

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Barney's figures on Michigan confirm what has been apparent for a long time.

During the "decent weather" months, my '89 coupe is my daily driver. That also must be the case for several others in my area since it's pretty normal to spot five or six other Reattas every week tooling around town.

I was at a small car show yesterday. Of the 82 cars present, there were two (2) Reattas.

It's lots of fun to chat with other Reatta owners, that's for sure!

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DJ... getting the info from Polk was just dumb luck.

Several year back at SEMA, Polk had a booth and were not busy so I spent some time asking about what they could tell me about Reatta registration.

They pulled up the basic info that only showed each model year for the entire US, it was not broken down by state or coupe/convertible. However during the conversation another rep joined us at the terminal and in the conversation he said there was a upper management guy that had a Reatta convertible. They did not want to give me his email but I got theirs and followed up after I got home. I was able to get in touch with the Reatta owner and he has a 1990 Driftwood convertible. Since that time I contact him every couple of years and he send me a pretty decent report. One year he included Canada and the Virgin Islands.

Bottom line, I don't want to mess up this deal by requesting other car info..... I suspect for a fee you could get a one time report on almost any vehicle.

I am going to SEMA this Nov and if there are there and not busy I will inquire about special request. I suspect most of their business is for an annual report.

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I just registered my 88 this weekend so your number can go up by one. I am sure many people would have had this one parted out even thought it was all original. The Original owner of my 88 contacted me knowing I worked on cars after we bought a Saturn from them. When they could not find anyone to work on it it got moved from Garage to driveway where it sat for at least 4 years. They called me and asked if I was interested in it. I said I would come take closer look. It did not run ( dead Battery) Paint on hood headlights and left fender clear coat pealing off, rusty underneath was all I could Tell. At the time I told them I really did not have much money to purchase the car. They said if you will not scrap or part it out then you can have it. So I got it. It sat outside for some more years before I could work on it. Its now on the road. But still needs many things. I would say I have about $1000 in it to get it to this point.

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Guest ensign83

Tagged mine in MD a few weeks ago, but PO had tags although he hardly drove her. MD has a >20yr 'Historic' tag which does not require any inspections, but is for ~5000 mi/yr of shows and rallies. Y'all can imagine the rate as to which the law is abused re daily drivers, and I am guilty as charged. But I've kept an '88 on the road...

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Guest Mc_Reatta

I thought FL had a 25 year old Historic tag. That would mean my 89s would qualify this year. Just looked into it and found out I could qualify for an "Antique" tag for myself, but they bumped the "Historic" tag to 30 years. Think they did that on purpose to get my goat and my money. :mad:

Where are all those unobtainium parts at? :confused: Gotta keep'em on the road a good while longer!

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Our Gov O'Malley not only wants to increase from 20 to 25 year but the only time you will be able to drive your historic plated vehicle will be to and on a parade, to and back from a repair shop or to and back from a car show.

NO driving at any other time not even to give the grand-kids a ride on Sunday afternoon.

Woody

89 MAUI

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Guest ensign83

Indeed, W,

This kinda stuff would likely make a great Springsteen song about the workin man or something...

I know roads are not free, but the constant grabbing all the revenue you can whenever you can is tough on a working dad of means, idk...

Perhaps after Nov the new Gov will 'forget' about it, but i wont hold my breath!:confused:

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Guest Mc_Reatta
the only time you will be able to drive your historic plated vehicle will be to and back from a repair shop...

Well since home is the repair shop, I can therefore honestly claim that all my trips are from and to the repair shop! Ha! :P

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Here are the actual MD rules for clarification.

To be registered as a historic vehicle (class L), your vehicle must be a passenger vehicle, motorcycle or truck (with a GVWR of 10,000 pounds or less): be 20 calendar years old or older and must not have been substantially altered, remodeled or remanufactured from the manufacturers original design.

A vehicle registered as historic cannot be used for general daily transportation, or primarily for the transportation of passengers or property on highways. It can only be used in exhibitions, club activities, parades, tours, occasional transportation and similar uses. A trailer does not qualify for historic registration.

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Guest Corvanti
Here are the actual MD rules for clarification.A vehicle registered as historic cannot be used for general daily transportation, or primarily for the transportation of passengers or property on highways. It can only be used in exhibitions, club activities, parades, tours, OCCASIONAL TRANSPORTATION and similar uses. A trailer does not qualify for historic registration.

as a retired Law Enforcement Officer, that statement "occasional transportation and similar uses" opens up the "spirit of the law" to basically any vehicle that is not a daily driver! even then, the burden of proof that the vehicle is a daily driver would fall to the officer and the state. basically that would only occur if the owner admitted to it.

in NC, we are able to show a Year of Manufacture (YOM) license plate on the rear (we only have one plate) - as long as a valid license plate and registration is in the vehicle. not long ago, a local Studebaker club member got stopped by a rookie officer regarding displaying the YOM plate. we had discussed this earlier and we suggested that everyone with a YOM plate carry a copy of the NC Statute allowing it. that's all it took for the driver to be on his way.

i'd suggest the same be done in the MD situation with historic plates.:) a copy should be found online thru the state website.

remember, all states vary...

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The info below is from the Texas license search...... there is a more detailed one somewhere but I could not find it. In this case the Antique it the limited usage, no inspection required and the plate is good for 5 years. You can submit a "year of manufacture" tag for the year of the car you are registering and sometimes with no hassel that can be used on either Antiques or Classic registered cars.

ANTIQUE Motor vehicle that are at least 25 years old AND a collector's item. The motor vehicle must be used exclusively for exhibitions, club activities, parades or other functions of public interest. Motor vehicles displaying Antique plates may not be used for regular transportation or advertising. The motor vehicle may be driven to and from a location for routine maintenance. Current # registered 114,771

CLASSIC Number Currently Registered:19,296 Available Since:1958

Eligibility:Motor vehicle at least 25 years old.

I have never talked to a car owner in Texas that has had a problem with either plate. There may have been some people that misused the category but it is not a problem.

A related story.... a friend that owns a 1969 AMX since new (and has Antique tags) was taking a trip with his brother on RT 66. They had done the Texas and East route and about to do the Texas and West when stopped in the Texas panhandle by a Texas State Police officer. The officer claimed he knew nothing about using year of manufacture plates and proceeded to tell the AMX owner that he had to have new plates. The AMX owner is a lawyer and kept his cool and attempted to expain to the officer about these special tags. Finally the officer let him go saying " I have your name and address and if this is not true I will come after you" John never heard from the officer.

The prudent thing to do is carry a copy of the state license requirement for the tag you are running....especially if you are traveling away from home. With that document, if you are out of your state, the officer should

abide by whatever your state requires.

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Talk about survivors.... I know we need to be cautious when talking about a car for sale and that is what I am warning here. There is a red convertible on Ebay that is listed with 103K miles. Information that has come to me for the database shows it had 249K in 2004 in CT, 111K in 2005 in FL now it shows 103 in yet another state. There could be many explanations of the crazy mileage numbers so I recommend doing some research when buying a car from someone you do not know. Just an example of a car that appears to have had several owners.

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Guest PAT'S 91

Pennsylvania classic plate costs 75.00 with no renewal fee.state inspection required yearly but exempt from emissions testing.In order to get a classic plate car must be 15yrs old and with original equipment.In other words no flared fenders or tires sticking out beyond wheel wells.Have a friend that the state police stopped and pulled his classic plate because his tires were out beyond the wheel wells.They then towed his car

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Guest Richard D

The state of Florida went to a huge expense building emissions testing centers all over the state. They became operational in the late 1980s of I remember correctly. There was always a long line to get tested and about 15 cars before you got in there was several signs stating from this point do not shut off engine. This was to keep the catalysts hot, talking about not wasting fuel. When you got to the rollers they would shove a pipe in your hole, I mean exhaust then you would watch a large screen that would tell you to accelerate to different speeds as displayed on the monitor. Some cars even though left running would require you to hold 55 mph to heat up the catalytic converter. After 10 years of this less than one percent of cars were failing. The system was dismantled and the properties sold at fire sale prices. I could never find out what it cost Florida taxpayers for this joke but I bet it was in the billions of dollars. Here in Miami not everyone drives new cars. I would see 10 year old econo rust buckets pass through in front of me.

Just my 2 cents.

Edited by Richard D (see edit history)
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Guest Richard D

The state of Florida went to a huge expense building emissions testing centers all over the state. They became operational in the late 1980s of I remember correctly. There was always a long line to get tested and about 15 cars before you got in there was several signs stating from this point do not shut off engine. This was to keep the catalysts hot, talking about not wasting fuel. When you got to the rollers they would shove a pipe in your hole, I mean exhaust then you would watch a large screen that would tell you to accelerate to different speeds as displayed on the monitor. Some cars even though left running would require you to hold 55 mph to heat up the catalytic converter. After 10 years of this less than one percent of cars were failing. The system was dismantled and the properties sold at fire sale prices. I could never find out what it cost Florida taxpayers for this joke but I bet it was in the billions of dollars. Here in Miami not everyone drives new cars. I would see 10 year old econo rust buckets pass through in front of me.

Just my 2 cents.

Edited by Richard D (see edit history)
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Here in Wisconsin collector plates are $75.00 [One time fee]. Car must be 20 years and applicant must provide a picture of the interior, all 4 sides [exterior] and a picture of the engine. Plates are good for 11 months out of 12 [not valid in Feb.]. If you want to drive your car in Feb you must buy a temporary plate.

I asked why the pictures and why 11 months. They told me pictures were to be sure that the cars were in good original condition [not beaters] and the 11 month plate was to weed out the daily drivers.

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Laws and their enforcement are a fickle thing......I may have posted this before, but here it is again. Texas requires both front and rear plates (you see lots of Corvettes without front plates) I was in the habit of putting the clear plastic cover over my front plate to make it easier to clean off the bugs. At an annual inspection I was told they could not pass my car because it had a cover over the plate and they were instructed to make that a fail item. I was told I could remove it and then it would pass......... in the process of removing the cover (which also holds the front plate) I ask "what if there is no front plate" (remember Texas requires both plates) the inspection tech said that was fine and the car would pass....but if it had a front plate with a cover it would fail.

Similar laws on catalytic converters ....... in Texas if there is no converter the car will not pass inspection (I should also point out that in Texas emission testing is not state wide...only large metropolitan areas with "pollution" problems must have the emission testing) In the metro areas the car is hooked up and tested. Bottom line, it is a federal law that the car must have a converter, but who enforces it? The inspection people only fail the car. State and local police don't stop and ticket people for not having a converter. Which leaves the FBI as the possible agency that might arrest you for not having a converter. Another law that is pretty much ignored.

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a) my Judge could have the "antique" plate but I think it is ugly. Regular plate is cheaper for older cars. "Something" just expired and plate renewal dropped by about half (by waiting until the 3rd what would have been $240 was $120)

B) Florida inspection stations were originally statewide and started somewhere between 1968 and 1972 but in 1981 complaints about long lines and improvements in air quality resulted in their closing except in six "smoggy" counties (Palm Beach, Duval, Broward, Hillsbourough, and Dade were five, I forget which was the sixth but wasn't Orange). These were closed in 2000.

Inspection was not just smog but also lights, suspension, brakes, horn, and such. It did take a while. Was bad enough with one car but I have never had just one (except briefly while in the AF).

BTW the first GM catalytic converters had a large plug that took something like a big allen wrench. Unscrew the plug and all of the beads would fall out & it became a free flowing muffler.

ps when I moved from Texas to Florida (one tag state) I left the Texas tag on the front. FHP told me to take it off.

Edited by padgett (see edit history)
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I guess we have it pretty soft here in Michigan.

"Antique" plates (25 years +) are lifetime for $25. Year of issue plates are also lifetime for $25. Both styles limit driving to car shows, parades, car club activities, etc., but NOT grocery-getting.

We only have rear tags and there are no emission tests or other inspections. A plate for a small utility trailer is "permanent" for as long as you own the trailer for a one-time fee of $75.

Vanity plates are available for an additional $25 on top of the normal fee which, IMHO, is steep. Example: my 2006 Chevy TrailBlazer is $97 + $25 for the Michigan State University block "S".

There are at least a half dozen styles of plates, which drive law enforcement nuts. The State just passed a new law that requires replacement of the physical plate at the 10-year mark because so many of them were beat up and almost impossible to read.

As far as I'm aware there are no restrictions regarding plastic covers. Every auto store is well stocked with them, including the dark smoked variety that can't be read in the dark.

It's wild how laws vary from State to State.

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Talk about survivors.... I know we need to be cautious when talking about a car for sale and that is what I am warning here. There is a red convertible on Ebay that is listed with 103K miles. Information that has come to me for the database shows it had 249K in 2004 in CT, 111K in 2005 in FL now it shows 103 in yet another state. There could be many explanations of the crazy mileage numbers so I recommend doing some research when buying a car from someone you do not know. Just an example of a car that appears to have had several owners.

This car did not sell at $3100. The guy showed 103000 miles in the listing and his auto history check report showed last reported miles at 185000.

If it had 249000 ten years ago its probably close to 300000 now. Maybe a testament to Buick longevity at the very least. 5 owners, but lots of monkeybusiness

somewhere along the way.

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Guest slwalton72

My '90 won't show on the registry, it has been sitting in my garage untagged since 2011. I'm the 3rd owner and it has 122, 000 verifyable miles on it. Its white with the bright red interior. I got the car for $1000. I've contemplated selling it a few times and have had many offers made, but nothing of which I would consider reasonable considering how rare these things are. So I'm keeping it and doing my vision of what my Reatta should look like. Its a pretty awesome car for being a front wheel drive and only getting harder to find.

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Shawn...... the information provided by Polk is the number of Reattas registered.

The information on the database (www.reatta.net) which you refer to as the registry, is comprised of both running, and non-running Reattas. I encourage people to send the information on Reattas in salvage yards and that is added to the database. As you infer, someday Reattas, especially convertibles could be worth some serious money. It will take a while, but having info on scrapped cars might be helpful in the future when someone tries to bring one back from the dead. This is not a terrible thing but at least we will know.

Today there are many valuable classic cars that are rebuilt to show quality from a partial vehicle found in a barn. Todays trend seems to be finding the original cars and many collectors are willing to pay more for an original than a rebuilt car.

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Shawn...... the information provided by Polk is the number of Reattas registered.

The information on the database (www.reatta.net) which you refer to as the registry, is comprised of both running, and non-running Reattas. I encourage people to send the information on Reattas in salvage yards and that is added to the database. As you infer, someday Reattas, especially convertibles could be worth some serious money. It will take a while, but having info on scrapped cars might be helpful in the future when someone tries to bring one back from the dead. This is not a terrible thing but at least we will know.

Today there are many valuable classic cars that are rebuilt to show quality from a partial vehicle found in a barn. Todays trend seems to be finding the original cars and many collectors are willing to pay more for an original than a rebuilt car.

Barney, you can add two more Reattas to your data. My non-registered green '91 and red '90 vert. are garaged and just driven around the block every couple of months. The '88 and '89 are registered and driven on the road every so often. Mileage of my 4 Reattas range from 19,000 to 101,000.

There are always plenty of Reattas in the Bay Area Craigslist for a thousand dollars or so. They look good in the pictures and some have less than 100,000 miles. Evidently they're still too new to be a collector car. Someday, I guess, the Reatta will be a collectable. :)

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Should be on the edge of "collectible" now. The big issue is that hp is the big thing now with 400 hp being an "also ran" any more and there has been a technology explosion since. Someday the 88-89 with the CRT in the dash will be recognized for what it is, but not yet.

I added Bluetooth/Hands Free Phone/aux input to my 90 'vert mainly because I consider that a safety issue.

post-31022-143142769777_thumb.jpg

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On my way back to work today, I passed a black coupe going the other way. Also, the gentleman that sold us ours got the one that his father was giving to him. It's a white vert with red interior. Kinda strange to see 3 reatta's running around a town of 15000 people in the middle of nowhere!!

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  • 3 weeks later...
Guest Dan Ogle

Tim , the Black one you saw is mine,I have never seen the white one, but have seen 2 red ones in town ,one coupe and one convertible that had a for sale sign on it up on Duncan back around the first of summer.I'am guessing that you may have bought red convertible I saw for sale.

DAN

Edited by Dan Ogle (see edit history)
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As mentioned several times on this forum, my '89 coupe is my DD when the roads are dry. Although winter is right around the corner here in mid-Michigan, I'm planning on driving it down to my daughters place near Indianapolis over the Thanksgiving holiday, weather permitting.

I passed a silver or gray coupe (not sure 'cause it was going in the opposite direction) today. First time I've seen it around town. It was, to put it mildly, a strong candidate for the junk yard. Loud too! Needed a muffler ASAP.

Oh well......it WAS a Reatta. And it's STILL going down the road!

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