'58 Buick Limited Smokes

I'm having an issue with my '58 Buick Limited where it smokes out the back, the tail pipe is pretty sooty, and it leaves soot stains on the driveway if I leave it running in one place for a while. The car starts and runs great, but mpg is low - about 7. In the past I've gotten 17 mpg on the highway.

As my dad used to say, "The car is old enough to smoke", but cars don't follow me for long.

I've checked the carb mixture screws and they are at 3/4 turn (the book calls for 1 1/2 turns)

I checked and adjusted the carb float levels and made sure that the floats were not leaking.

I've checked the choke setting and it seems ok.

Does anyone have any other ideas of what to check?

Thanks

Bill

Somewhere on this forum that was discussed. For now, block the vacuum line from the intake manifold just in front of the carburetor to the shuttle valve on the windshield wiper. Run at a fast idle for about ten minutes and if the smoke diminishes noticeably, you probably have both a stuck shuttle valve and a worn out vacuum pump which is piggy-backed to the engine oil pump.

Dan

Yes, I was one of those that had a smoking 58.

As stated pull off the vacuum lines going to the windshield

wiper motor and plug them …….If the smoking stops… you can rest easier! The auxiliary vacuum pump

that feeds the wiper motor is located in the oil pan & is part of the oil pump assembly.

When it fails, manifold vacuum (which ALSO feeds the wiper motor) overcomes the aux

pump and pulls oil right into the intake manifold; causing the smoking you are encountering.

It is a horrible way to run a simple windshield wiper motor & was one of Buick's worst moves…IMHO!

I'm betting this is what you are seeing. I often wonder how many perfectly good 57/8 Buicks were

abandoned or junked prematurely when owners saw the huge amount of smoke this condition can

produce.

If this is indeed what you observe, my solution would be to keep the lines nicely plugged & buy a nice electric conversion

motor for your wipers and enjoy driving your Buick.<script type="text/javascript" src="safari-extension://com.ebay.safari.myebaymanager-QYHMMGCMJR/c8bbda79/background/helpers/prefilterHelper.js"></script>

Yes, I was one of those that had a smoking 58.

As stated pull off the vacuum lines going to the windshield

wiper motor and plug them …….If the smoking stops… you can rest easier! The auxiliary vacuum pump

that feeds the wiper motor is located in the oil pan & is part of the oil pump assembly.

When it fails, manifold vacuum (which ALSO feeds the wiper motor) overcomes the aux

pump and pulls oil right into the intake manifold; causing the smoking you are encountering.

It is a horrible way to run a simple windshield wiper motor & was one of Buick's worst moves…IMHO!

I'm betting this is what you are seeing. I often wonder how many perfectly good 57/8 Buicks were

abandoned or junked prematurely when owners saw the huge amount of smoke this condition can

produce.

If this is indeed what you observe, my solution would be to keep the lines nicely plugged & buy a nice electric conversion

motor for your wipers and enjoy driving your Buick.<script type="text/javascript" src="safari-extension://com.ebay.safari.myebaymanager-QYHMMGCMJR/c8bbda79/background/helpers/prefilterHelper.js"></script>

Thanks for the quick replies! I'll check it out.

Since the 58 is 12V, you can get an electric vacuum pump if you want to stick with the vacuum wipers. Dorman sells them.

Bill: You can also strive to keep it original by rolling up your sleeves and dropping the pan. Then clean it out, then detach vacuum pump from the oil pump and take it over to your work bench and take it apart. It is a very simple device with very few parts. Most likely the "key" that is set in the middle of it and which turns off of the oil pump idle gear which in turn spins off of the oil pump's shaft gear, is worn and has been known to break thus rendering the pump inoperative. This key can be easily made up for you be a machine shop. Another thing you can do is follow the Buick Shop Manuals detailed advice and install an extended vent tube coming off of the vacuum pumps body assembly. This is detailed in one of the Service Bulletins which are available on DVD or hardcopy. The internal dual vanes which are located inside of the pump can get worn if gritty oil has entered the vacuum chamber. These hard rubber vanes can be removed and replaced with similar material. The inside of the vacuum pump chamber walls where these vanes rub up against thus creating the vacuum, can be gouged and gritted from the same dirty oil. This wall chamber can be milled out and the new vanes cut to compensate for the amount of material taken off when smoothing the walls.

It would be worth your while to attempt this before going in another direction. You would know what you have and would also have a nice clean internal pan thus avoiding future problems in other areas of your engine.

Good luck.

In about 1964, I was as poor as a church mouse, and my transportation was a 1958 Buick Special. One day, it began smoking as if it had a blown engine, and also began to miss badly. To top it off, raw oil was running out of the tailpipe. It was a Sunday. The next day I took off from work and drove over to Ballanger Buick in Laurel, MD. The Shop forman, a man named Lem, looked at the car and scratched his head and said, "I've seen Chevrolet's do this, but never a Buick. You must have a cracked piston." My heart almost stopped. About that time a young mechanic walked over, his job was normally doing tune-ups. He said, "Don't you remember, Lem, these cars run the windshield wipers off of the oil pump." Lem then remembered. They put my car up on the lift, and $55 later (a fortune to me at the time), I had a new oil pump installed. They explained to me that the oil was being sucked out of the pan and then up into #1 cylinder (hence the miss) and then since the plug wasn't firing, the oil was pumped right out of the tailpipe. By the time I got back to Glen Burnie, my tailpipe had turned gray/white inside (we were using leaded gas in those good old days). Afterward I won many a $5 bet with mechanic's during oil changes at local garages who insisted I was a no-nothing and the windshield wipers always worked from the fuel pump. I had two 58 Buicks and the amount of weird problems with those cars should make me never want another one. The list is nearly endless. Yet, in my old age I've been waxing sentimental and thinking about finding another one. For starters, does anybody know of an electric replacement for the vacuum windshield wipers?

Glad you found this thread Dynaflash.

Earl,

Somebody makes an electric conversion for the 1958 Buick, but I don't know who. My friend and fellow BCA member Ted Phelps had one installed on his 1958 Buick Super a couple of years ago, and I asked him to write it up for the Bugle, and he agreed to do that, but then he passed away before getting that done. And the car was sold to someone in Tennessee, so I;m afraid I can't help on this, except to say they ARE made--I have seen one.

Pete Phillips, BCA #7338

P.S.: Would you, "Roadmaster 75", and "Buick Man" mind if I print these responses in the 1958 Buick Division newsletter and also the Buick Bugle? This is really useful information.

Pete: For sure. buick man is working on a revitalization of the vacuum pump for 57/58 as he believes they have received an unjust and inaccurate rap sheet over the years.

Regarding using any of buick man's replies and/or posts, go ahead and may we suggest you print out any of buick man's "How to Do" posts from days gone bye and edit them as you deem fit and proper if need be and put them in the Bugle as well. Just acknowledge where and who they came from.

Thanks. Now all I have to do is find a decent driver/tour 1955 Buick Century 4-door hardtop that I don't have to restore....especially repaint. And, I need to do it before I break down and bid on the 39 Buick sunshine turret top sedan on eBay. I have known that car for 40 years, and it's decent and really rare, but still well worn and in an ugly color. Gosh, I already have three 39 Buicks!

Earl,

Somebody makes an electric conversion for the 1958 Buick, but I don't know who. My friend and fellow BCA member Ted Phelps had one installed on his 1958 Buick Super a couple of years ago, and I asked him to write it up for the Bugle, and he agreed to do that, but then he passed away before getting that done. And the car was sold to someone in Tennessee, so I;m afraid I can't help on this, except to say they ARE made--I have seen one.

Pete Phillips, BCA #7338

P.S.: Would you, "Roadmaster 75", and "Buick Man" mind if I print these responses in the 1958 Buick Division newsletter and also the Buick Bugle? This is really useful information.

Hi Pete,

No problemo… go ahead and use the response (s)

BTW

Maybe we should post a "Wanted" ad for smoking 57 & 58 Buicks!!

mike

<script type="text/javascript" src="safari-extension://com.ebay.safari.myebaymanager-QYHMMGCMJR/98283e6d/background/helpers/prefilterHelper.js"></script>

Hi Pete,

No problemo… go ahead and use the response (s)

BTW

Maybe we should post a "Wanted" ad for smoking 57 & 58 Buicks!!

mike

<script type="text/javascript" src="safari-extension://com.ebay.safari.myebaymanager-QYHMMGCMJR/98283e6d/background/helpers/prefilterHelper.js"></script>

…. Yeah so we can prove the problem is a fixable one and no need to hackymotto up your firewall and wire harness just to install an electric windshield washer motor with yet another switch and wires hanging down from under your dash ! - Our sacred Motto: "Keeping it original, one car at a time"

Maybe we should post a "Wanted" ad for smoking 57 & 58 Buicks!!

mike

<script type="text/javascript" src="safari-extension://com.ebay.safari.myebaymanager-QYHMMGCMJR/98283e6d/background/helpers/prefilterHelper.js"></script>

Mine just moved to Iowa! It was a smoker on the way to South Bend last year and Gene Reynolds helped me "fix" it in the parking lot

So, I'm not sure how the vacuum pump issue would make the tail pipe sooty. I've had oil burning cars before and my '58 doesn't have the typical blue-ish smoke coming out the tailpipe, nor does it smell like an oil burner. Instead it looks like the mixture is too rich - although like I said, the mixture screws are half what the book calls for, and the choke is fine. Can you explain?

Do you have true dual exhaust? If so, is it coming out of one side? That would be indicative of the dreaded vacuum pump/oil pump failure. Reading your original post, that is not what I had in mind...but the title of the thread instantly made me think of the wiper motor/vac pump.

If correctly hooked up, and the vacuum pump fails, the wiper motor will siphon oil from the pump through the wiper motor and into the intake manifold, causing the smoke issue.

It sounds like you are fighting something else...not related to this oil issue.

The idle mixture screws control ONLY the idle mixture, not the "cruise" mixture or "WOT" mixture. IF the vacuum wiper system (or some other vacuum-operated mechanism) has a leaky line or diaphragm, it'll cause the carb to perceive the engine is under "great load" and kick-in the "power mixture" to enrich the carb's supplied air/fuel ratio. Such "load" is read from the intake manifold vacuum level rather than from throttle pedal position. Fixing the leaks will allow the carb to have "good signals" so fuel metering will again return to what it should be for when it needs it.

A different situation from the in-sump vacuum pump issues mentioned above.

Newport Engineering does the electric wiper conversion kit for many other street machine vehicles. As I recall, it was a relatively simple installation, from what Ted mentioned. You can probably find their ad in "Street Rodder Magazine".

Enjoy!

NTX5467

As for internal carburetor issues . . . if some of the metering orifices might have "an accumulation" in them, effectively decreasing their physical orifice size, if it's an air bleed restriction in a tube, it can make that particular fuel circuit go "rich". In many cases, it's necessary to physically probe the area for restrictions as carb cleaner or soaks will not remove these "mineral-like deposits". I have a carb I had to do that on, with good results after it was all over.

Just some thoughts,

NTX5467

I also tried blocking off the vacuum line from the manifold by threading a screw temporarily into the line. The engine idle went down, but the sooty smoke (not oil smoke) still remains. Yes, the soot comes out both exhaust pipes and yes, my Limited has true dual exhausts - one from each side of the engine.

What did you use to probe the carb orafices?

Willis,

Thanks for that name! Yes, now I remember, it was Newport Engineering that supplied the electric wiper conversion for Ted's 1958 Super.

R.I.P., Ted Phelps--he is missed.

Pete Phillips

The story I related above was exactly as it happened, and the things Ballanger Buick in Laurel, MD were exactly what they told me at the time. That deal has made me afraid to ever consider a '58 Buick until I heard about the electric fuel pump converstion; but I still wonder if the oil pump works correctly without all of that vacuum wiper stuff disconnected.

Your oil pump will work just fine, even if the vacuum chamber is deceased.

mike

<script type="text/javascript" src="safari-extension://com.ebay.safari.myebaymanager-QYHMMGCMJR/98283e6d/background/helpers/prefilterHelper.js"></script>

What I used to "probe" the orifices in the bottom of the Idle Feed Tube (the solid one, not the larger one with holes on the sides) was a bent-wire spark plug gap gauge. These tubes are a part of the venturi assembly of the primary (on a 4bbl) of the carb. The same things usually exist on many 2bbls and 1bbls, too.

I'd previously carefully sprayed carb cleaner "bottom-up" through the tubes to check for restrictions, but there was "flow" so I figured they were fine. Still anytime the idle circuit was needed, the car died (even coasting from highway speed!). All diagnostics pointed to an idle circuit that was not working. Finally, in a service manual, I found where the "Low Speed Jet" was located (near the bottom of the idle tube) AND it had a specified size. Once I knew where it was, I probed it with the gap gauge. I started wth the small size and worked upward. I then purchased a selection of "twist drill bits" and used them to clean things out until I "got metal shavings", then cleaned it out again with carb cleaner spray. THEN I could adjust the idle mixture again!

The OTHER calibrations for the idle and main circuits are calibrated air bleeds on the top-side of the venturi cluster. These are the little holes in the top of the cluster, exposed to air flow through the carb's primary side (on 4bbls) or only throttle bores on 1bbls and 2bbls. The larger hole is for the "main circuit", which modulates the cruise mixture. The smaller hole is for the idle circuit. IF the size of these holes might decrease, then the particular circuit (on the particular side) will head toward "rich".

In the case of the "power circuit", it's operated by manifold vacuum. How and what it operates can depend upon how the particular carburetor is designed. Still, though, that system needs manifold vacuum to keep the valve inoperative until the manifold vacuum drops low enough for it to be needed to operate (many times, somewhere below about 8" Hg). If a failed vacuum source or internal diaphragm has resulted, the MOST fuel economy you can expect, even in steady-state highway driving at 60mph) will be close to 12mpg, or lower.

Additionally . . . you might need to check the point dwell on the distributor to see that it's in specs, too. Plus ensuring the spark plugs aren't fowled (possibly from the sooty exhaust observation) and the spark plug wires are in good condition. It's also possible the ignition coil might have grown weak with age, but my experience has been that that is probably not the case. Regardless of how well the carb provides the air/fuel mixture to the engine, the ignition system's job is to efficiently "fire" that mixture as completely as possible. ALWAYS check and adjust the point dwell BEFORE you set the base timing, in that order. Then work with the carb adjustments from there.

As for the carb adjustments, I consider the idle screw "turns" spec as a starting place, not an ultimate destination. You might have "true duals", but due to the way the intake manifold passages swap sides, the lh mixture screw will not control just the lh side's carb idle mixture. Same with the rh mixture screw. Having them balanced can be good, too, but might not always work that way. As the choke's thermostatic spring has been observed to tighten with age, you might need to "lean" it a notch or two from factory spec in order to get the choke off quickly enough . . . by trial and error method. Just a little, not a lot.

As for setting the carb . . . AFTER the ignition settings have been done . . . AND the carb base nuts/bolts have been checked for proper tightness AND gasket integrity . . . AND no other obvious vacuum leaks have been found . . . start with the "hot" base idle speed. Do that FIRST. Then, as spec'd on the emissions label of our '69 Chevy pickup, adjust each mixture screw for max rpm, then lean it to achieve a 20rpm drop, then return it to the higher-rpm setting. Repeat with the other side (on a multi-venturi carb). Fine tune as needed to keep the idle rpm "at spec". Afterward, with the carb throttle held at about 2000rpm level, allow the throttle to close normally to see how it acts. It should drop to the base speed without any "plateaus" before it does. If it has a short hesitation before it comes completely to base idle (provided it does not have a throttle dashpot to delay complete closing somewhat . . . as some vehicles had), then there can be a small vacuum leak somewhere. When that's fixed, recheck the idle speed and mixture.

Sometimes, ignition issues can result in similar issues that can be caused by the fuel system's operation. If the plugs are sooty, you might need to run a spark plug gap gauge between the electrodes to clean them up some. What's on the plug insulators would probably take care of themselves during an extended highway cruise "run" ( but NOT if just driven in town) to get things cleaned out.

Several years ago, Pete had discovered a Lucas Oil fuel additive to counteract Ethanol in fuel issues. I got some and put it in my lawn mower, a few years ago. Other than "first pull" starting, I also noticed that the spark plug looked like new when I looked at it afterward. I DID "over-treat" by accident, but they claim that does not hurt anything, which I observed to be accurate. I call it the "Lucas Green Stuff", as it's green in color. Available many places, too, rather than "by order" when Pete discovered it.

Just some thoughts,

NTX5467

I have a Newport on my (non-judged) wagon.

I got it installed in less than two hours including tapping into the fusebox.

OK

I'm Thoroughly LOST!

M

<script type="text/javascript" src="safari-extension://com.ebay.safari.myebaymanager-QYHMMGCMJR/98283e6d/background/helpers/prefilterHelper.js"></script>

Newport electric wiper motor.

Does that help?