Front drum rivets/bolts on a 65

The PO to my car had the brakes done and replaced the front rotors. Now they did not rivet the new rotor to the hub, but they did bolt it in. My question is do I need to bolt this thing to the hub, or is this just an extra step that just makes removing the rotor that much more difficult? Cant imagine why it needs to be affixed to the hub since the wheel will hold it in place. If there is a specific need for this, please do share. Also, I have the original aluminum rotors and am thinking of having them resurfaced. Any advantage to using them aside from weight?

There is a significant vibration in the wheel so either I resurface the iron ones (which are probably the available repo pieces) or hope the original ones have enough meat left.

1) When you say that the PO had the "rotors" replaced, are you really referring to the drums or did he convert your car to disk brakes? 2) I'm assuming that you really mean drums, so my next question is are the replacement drums the finned aluminum drums that were stock or are they a repo iron drum?

There's nothing made easier by removing the rivets. All that does is complicate things by making you remove the drum, then having to remove the hub to get to the brakes.

The aluminum drums have a steel liner in them. That liner can be "turned" to smooth it out but when doing so you have to stay within certain tolerances. The only way to "resurface" drums is to send them to J&G and have new steel liners installed in them. If the PO got replacement drums from a vendor such as Kanter, then the replacements he got were not the Buick 'Al-fin' drums; those are not reproduced. I can imagine a situation where new iron drums were used to replace aluminum drums because the aluminum ones have been turned too many times. The hub rivets had to be removed so that the new iron drums could be used with the hubs. There is no way replacement iron drums will give you the same brakes that the original aluminum ones did. Your best shot at getting back to original is probably going to involve shipping the aluminum drums you have off to J&G to have new liners installed.

Yeah Ed, I meant drums. Sorry was thinking drums but wrote rotors. The aluminum ones were replaced with iron. Going to take them down to my machine shop to see if they can be turned.

Also, one of my aluminum drums is missing the balance weights. My guess is this is a problem?

The missing weight could be a problem but a bigger problem is probably an insufficient amount of steel lining inside the aluminum. Contact J&G about relining them, and while you've got their attentions, ask them about the missing weights.

I went to my local machine shop and had the original alfin drums turned. They were within spec and came out true. I also had the iron OPGI drums turned and they were within spec as well. What I am going to do is put the aluminum ones on there and see how they feel.

Still am unclear on the need to bolt or rivet the drum to the hub though. If centered on the hub the same way where the holes line up, I cant think of a reason why I need to bolt them together rather than putting the wheel on and securing them with the lugs as done on every other car.

If there is a specific reason, I would like to know.

I went to my local machine shop and had the original alfin drums turned. They were within spec and came out true. I also had the iron OPGI drums turned and they were within spec as well. What I am going to do is put the aluminum ones on there and see how they feel.

Still am unclear on the need to bolt or rivet the drum to the hub though. If centered on the hub the same way where the holes line up, I cant think of a reason why I need to bolt them together rather than putting the wheel on and securing them with the lugs as done on every other car.

If there is a specific reason, I would like to know.

You are correct.....there is no reason why you have to have the drum connected to the hub,

as long as the center hole on the drum is a tight fit on the hub so that the drum is perfectly centered with the hub. The lug nuts will hold the drum tight to the hub, as you pointed out. A lot of cars in the 60's had front

drums that were not attached to the hub from the factory. You should be fine with the setup you have.

You are correct.....there is no reason why you have to have the drum connected to the hub,

as long as the center hole on the drum is a tight fit on the hub so that the drum is perfectly centered with the hub. The lug nuts will hold the drum tight to the hub, as you pointed out. A lot of cars in the 60's had front

drums that were not attached to the hub from the factory. You should be fine with the setup you have.

That's what I figured. Thanks!!

On a 65, the hub is smaller than the center hole on the drum. The hub will not center the drum. On a 63 and 64, the hub is larger and will center the drum, but the hub diameter was reduced in 65 and is smaller than the center hole in the drum by almost 1/2". Without the bolts or rivets, all that centers a 65 drum are the lug studs.

This will work for '63 and '64 cars but not for '65. The hub on the '65 is smaller but the drums still have the larger opening from the '63/'64 drum; they don't have a "snug fit." you'll have to depend on the lug nuts to center the drum. ???????? As log as the holes are there, put a new rivet back in them.

Ed

This will work for '63 and '64 cars but not for '65. The hub on the '65 is smaller but the drums still have the larger opening from the '63/'64 drum; they don't have a "snug fit." you'll have to depend on the lug nuts to center the drum. ???????? As log as the holes are there, put a new rivet back in them.

Ed

I agree with Ed.....as I stated earlier, if the center hole on the drums are not a tight fit around the

hub, leaving the drum loose will not work, as there is a lot of free movement around the stud holes on the

drum. Although technically you might be able to center the drum perfectly and tighten the lug nuts to hold

it, that is not a safe setup. I wonder if anyone makes replacement drums with the correct center hole for a 65?

What is the maximum "legal" inside diameter for the Al-fin drums? Practically speaking, how big can they really be used? I've got four of them on my replica 1932 Studebaker Indy car project with knock-off wire wheels using custom hubs, '63 Riviera backing plates in front, '60 LeSabre backing plates in the rear (see thread in Speedsters section of forum). One of the drums is approaching 12.100" diameter. Anyone have some spare drums?

What is the maximum "legal" inside diameter for the Al-fin drums? Practically speaking, how big can they really be used? I've got four of them on my replica 1932 Studebaker Indy car project with knock-off wire wheels using custom hubs, '63 Riviera backing plates in front, '60 LeSabre backing plates in the rear (see thread in Speedsters section of forum). One of the drums is approaching 12.100" diameter. Anyone have some spare drums?

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Technically the drums become throwaway when they reach the maximum diameter that is

printed on the drum. The throwaway dimension usually allows a little leeway assuming some people will

go beyond that point. The drum becomes a hazard when the brake lining on the drum is so thin that it might fail or not dissipate heat properly, or if it is so thin that if the shoes wear down till they are thin that the

wheel cylinders will go out so far that the cups won't seal to their bore, resulting in total loss of the brake fluid and catastrophic failure on a single chamber master cylinder system. If you don't have a tool to measure inside diameter of the drum for minimum thickness, the drum manufacturer makes it easy for you.......they put a 45 degree bevel on the edge of the lining of the drum. If the drum is worn down to the

point the bevel disappears, you are beyond tolerance.

From my '63 Chassis Manual: "If a drum does not clean-up when re-bored to a diameter of 12.080", it must be replaced."

Ditto word for word in the '66 Chassis Manual.

I wonder if anyone makes replacement drums with the correct center hole for a 65?

There might be a generic drum out there that would work, but no one reproduces the aluminum drums. The best you can do is find a pair in good shape and have new steel liners put into them. If anyone is interested, a couple of years ago there was information on the V8Buick forum on how to install the wider aluminum drums on the rear axle. If I remember correctly, it involves the installation of c. 1956 rear backing plates and some machining to the drum. Pretty simple actually.

Ed

This will work for '63 and '64 cars but not for '65. The hub on the '65 is smaller but the drums still have the larger opening from the '63/'64 drum; they don't have a "snug fit." you'll have to depend on the lug nuts to center the drum. ???????? As log as the holes are there, put a new rivet back in them.

Ed

Ahhh....that's the part I was missing. Didn't realize 65' had a smaller hub and used the earlier drums. I will put the bolts back in.

Ahhh....that's the part I was missing. Didn't realize 65' had a smaller hub and used the earlier drums. I will put the bolts back in.

I was looking around on the internet and found a pair of 65 aluminum front brake drums for sale

for 100.00. The listing says they have a lot of brake lining left on them. sounds like a bargain to me.

You can find the listing if you Google search : Mitula 1965 riviera front brake drums

I have the originals off my car and just had them turned. Seems to be ok so far.

You might be able to turn the liners to more than what the chassis manual reccomends but they publish those figures for safety reasons that don't show up until after the brakes have failed If the linings are too thin, there's a chance they could crack under severe forces and come apart. :eek:

Ed

I have read this thread and am a little confused. I am trying to remove my front drums from my 65 riv. original aluminum drums. I can see the rivits, 3 of them on the outside of the drum. I have backed the brakes off as far as I can. I cannot get the drums to budge and was wondering if the rivits or something else was keeping the drum from coming off? Any help please.

Bob

I have read this thread and am a little confused. I am trying to remove my front drums from my 65 riv. original aluminum drums. I can see the rivits, 3 of them on the outside of the drum. I have backed the brakes off as far as I can. I cannot get the drums to budge and was wondering if the rivits or something else was keeping the drum from coming off? Any help please.

Bob

You didn't say whether or not you have removed the wheel bearing dust cap, cotter pin, nut

and retainer washer from the hub. The drum comes off hub and all. If you have done that and it won't come off you have a lip worn onto the outer edge of the drum braking surface and it is catching on the shoes.

well, that was the information I was looking for. I had not removed the retaining nut.

and luckily I did not go to the bigger hammer philosophy yet, lol.

thank you very much for you help.

Bob