1957 Buick Caballero in Mexico

Hi,

Newbie here... living in Queretaro, Mexico. New to the forum, though I have posted on several other forums within this great AACA site. Not new to Buicks, as I have a 1964 Riviera which I adore and restored some 20 years ago or so, to be my daily driver back then and I still use it quite a bit.

Anyhow... I just got a 1957 Buick Century Caballero. I have been around one for years, from a great friend of mine and I love them, so I just got this dificult project for me as my 49th birthday present.

By difficult I mean it is basically a good body which was being turned into a hotrod, so the chassis was cut and adapted. It was never finished and now I have a body with cut chassis with no mechanical components, very little trim, etc... a nightmare, perhaps, but I am eager to do it as I love Caballeros.

I already found a short wheelbase sedan in good original condition which will become the donor for my Caballero and with which I will get all of the mechanical components plus a good amount of the trim. I will be missing, of course, the Estate wagon specific trim, which I will need to locate.

I requested some help in another site and got a first decoding, but things don't match exactly... and since I am having a lot of problems with that site, and just discovered this one (though I have been posting in several other forums within the site), I am trying my luck again here.

First, a pic of the plate:

I was told by a very helpful BCA member, Sean S., that I hope posts here also:

1957 MOD 69

BODY No 7701

TRIM No 636 V

PAINT No XX

ACC. BFG

1957 = 1957 model year

MOD 69 = Buick model 69 = 4-door hardtop (Riviera) estate wagon (Caballero), 6-passenger

BODY No 0 7701

7701 = 7701th model 69 built

Trim 636 = Black and Ivory Cordaveen, available on Model 69

Paint code XX = solid Sylvan Grey

Accessory (ACC.) option codes:

B = Heater and defroster

F = Safety Group (back-up lights, glareproof mirror, parking brake signal light, instrument panel safety pad - lower, Safety-Minder speedometer)

G = Windshield washer w/ wide angle wiper

V = Divided rear seat - Estate Wagon (listed on trim code line)

Now... to the doubts or why I say it does not match, based on the 1957 Buick Order form listing trim and options that I found on that other site:

http://www.teambuick.com/reference/years/57/order_form.php

X color is not mentioned there... let alone XX, which means my Caballero was monotone originally, from what I have been told, metallic gray, and I just came back from scratching the car a bit and it apparently is correct.

As for options, it shows BFGV (all explained above), but does not mention other important ones, mainly:

1. Power brakes, which acording to what I see, it has:

2. Air Conditioning, which because of the remains of the dashboard controls and the center duct in the upper dashboard, I believe the car had also:

So... what is going on here? Was it common to have important options not marked on your Body tag?

One other curious thing... if you look closely at my body tag, at the bottom left side there is an N, which is depressed and placed a bit sideways on the tag, like an afterthought. What does this mean?

Thanks,

Victor

I posted the reply to your thread on TeamBuick (http://www.teambuick.com/forums/showthread.php?24333-Newbie-with-a-1957-Buick-Century-Caballero). I also provided TeamBuick with a copy of the wholesale car order form. The order form is an early one dated 12/20/1956. Sylvan Grey is a Buick spring color available approximately 4/8/1957, that is why it is not on the order form. Since you could order a two-tone color in 1957 and 1958, paint codes where often two letters. The first letter = upper color, second letter = lower color. Solid color paint jobs maybe a two letters or a single letter only depending on who was doing the stamping that day. Not all options were stamped on the body tag, especially if they required no modification to the body like power steering or power brakes. N is the option code for air conditioning, so maybe they forgot to add it to the body tag when it was first stamped and added it later when the car was assembled.

http://paintref.com/cgi-bin/chipdisplay.cgi?year=1957&manuf=GM&smodel=Buick&info=yes&page=1

(poly = metallic)

Trim codes also changed over time and were added to or removed from the wholesale car order form. See my trim code list here:

http://forums.aaca.org/f115/1932-1975-buick-trim-codes-model-367437.html

(cordaveen = vinyl)

Sean:

Thanks a lot for your help. Clears up things a lot. I am certainly glad it shows the A/C and that I have the divided bench seat in the rear... but I still don't know why it shows code 636 in Trim, and the Order form shows 635. Would you know the reason for that? Is that another Spring option?

I have to say that finding the original color and trim may be 'academic' as I might go for another option. I like to restore cars correctly, hopefully to their own particular colors if I like them, but if not, I prefer to do them the way I would have ordered them back in the day when they were new. In this particular case, in the order code I only see one trim option that shows cloth available (and I really don't like plastic), 685, with rust cloth and beige cordaveen... so I might go for that, with the Copper (don't know the correct name for it) over Dover White combo outside.

I will continue posting here as my computer and TeamBuick's site don't get along well. I have to type one letter each second or two... and retype them several times. Crazy.

Thanks again for your help,

victor

Trim code 636 shows up on later order forms. I have one dated 6/10/1957 with trim code 636 but not trim code 635. See the link to my trim code list in my post above.

To fix your problem at Teambuick, click on the button in the upper left of the editing window that looks like A/A to toggle the editor mode.

Sean:

Wow! I see you went through and incredible effort to document every variation by trim number and models! Congratulations! Certainly a great help to the Buick community!

As for me, it is now very clear as to how my Caballero was originally. I will give it some thought wether going back exactly to how it was or doing it as I mentioned above, if I can find enough pictures to show me how it has to be done regarding interior colors (rust cloth and beige cordaveen, but would that have been with black or rust carpets, dashboard, steering Wheel, etc.). I will ask in due time.

Thanks again!

victor

Victor,

Stick around here. There are a lot of knowledgeable 57/58 guys who love to help.

Thanks, Mike. Now that I found the site, sure I will stick around... lots of things to learn in order to restore my Caballero correctly. I can see it is a fantastic forum with lots of knowledge and willingness to help. Thanks!!

Victor,

Congrat's on the new ride! I'm working on the Caballero's little brother, an 1957 49D Estate Wagon. I am more than happy to provide any advice you might need, as well as most of my revered brethren on this forum. FYI, the power brake that you have is not original, it is an aftermarket or add on from a much newer vehicle. Also, post some pictures of the engine compartment as well. Those would be helpful in identifying any other changes. We really like pictures on the forum.

Jim, thanks for your post and your offer to help. I really bought a reasonably good body which I am going to move into a good chassis, or I should say a very original car, which sadly will donate it's full chassis, a few body panels, most of the moudlings and some of the interior parts into the Caballero. Luckily, in the end, the idea is to get a beautiful Caballero back on the road again.

I will be surely be posting pics in the future. Right now, suffice it to say, pics would make you cry. But I am a stubborn guy and I think I can do the project fairly well and have a nice looking and hopefully well done Caballero in the end. The donor car has power brakes, a good engine with 3 carbs (no more data for now as I don't have anything on it) but no power steering, which I may have to source later... after I drive the donor car and decide if I need it or can live without it.

By the way, I found the name of the color I think I like: Garnet red, over Dover White, hopefully with rust cloth and beige plastic, hoping that was an available combo.

Thanks,

victor

Hi Victor,

Thanks. The best pic's are the before you start the project..to show what you started from, so feel free to post them. It is good that you have a donor car to pick parts from. That will really help for sure. We should definitely stay in touch, because I too have purchased a donor car as well for parts and maybe there may be things that we could swap between us as we move along on our restoration projects. Power steering is really nice. I changed my 57 Special Sedan over from manual steering to power steering and it really made a huge difference, so I would stick to it if you can.

Like the color combination that you are talking about. Is a very classy combo. Most of the interior materials are available for that as well, I think.

Please keep up the work and keep the team on the forum updated every so often..we all like to see what everyone's project is up to. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions or such.

Just a brief update... The car has been in the shop for a while now, with not much progress. The major body "problems" were already addressed, with not much difficulty, as there was little rust fortunately. My parts car just arrived (that is the reason we were going slowly) and we are going to start dismantling it and moving things from one car to the other soon.

I will keep you posted.

Hi Buick guys, I am looking for the roof trim (9 stainless pieces) for my 57 Caballero project?

Anyone knows some leads? THX Dirk

Oh, yes... I need those also. Can't help, sorry.

My parts car arrived and we are taking it appart now. It is a 4 door sedan. Most of the trim common with the Caballero will be used, including bumpers, grill and side mouldings. Even some body parts, like the hood will be used. I expect the project to move much faster now.

Victor

Another very brief update: The bodywork is almost finished. Floors were repaired and the body is almost ready to be fitted to the chassis... but before we do, I have a couple of important questions:

First, color: I had thought about Garnett red over Dover white, but looking at pics on the net, I see Bittersweet over Dover white, which I may like more. Question here is: most internet sites mention Bittersweet as a 1956 color only, while just a few mention it was available also for 1957. The paint chips I got for 1957 do now show it, but there is just too many Bittersweet 1957 pics on the net as to think it may not have been offered. Any answers? Was Bittersweet available on 1957 or not? 

Second: Paint under the car. Of course, I have no idea how they were supposed to be from the factory... and some guidance would certainly be appreciated! Should I use the main body color (in my case Garnett red or Bittersweet depending on the answer to my first question) also on the firewall and under the car? 

Thanks!

Victor

… Victor if you want to be completely and 100% organically correct, the bottom of the car was left in the Buick factory's flat rust colored primer as was the trunk pan area.  This presents itself as a brownish/red tint.  For example you can do as I did if using 2 part epoxy.  My epoxy source was obtained from SPI or Southern Polyurethanes Inc. out of Georgia.  After many attempts to match the factory color as the color out of mass produced cans were way off,  my final mix formula was found to be 12 parts Red epoxy to 3 parts Black epoxy mixed together.  For example in using this mix formula to mix up a given quantity one would add 20 mls of red, twelve times, then add to that,  20 mls of black three times to your mix container. You get the idea. This will give you a correct factory tone to your color.  If for any reason someone is reading this and want to just touch up original factory time faded primer, On the last coat reduce your mix amount by 50%.  This will result in a faux time faded ( lightened ) overall tone effect that will match the true factory color as it would appear today and match any original good existing factory primer.   This is done because the first two coats of non reduced epoxy you applied are actually doing all the protection work while this 50% reduced coat is delivering the time faded look you need to match the original look.  By reducing I mean you are adding urethane reducer to the final mix.  With SPI epoxies as like with many other epoxies, the paint to hardener ratio mix is 1 : 1.  So to that you would add 1/2 or 50% of whatever your 1 : 1 amounts were resulting in a greatly reduced mix that renders the look you want.  -   Hope this helps out.

Thank you very much, Buick Man. I will use your method and take the aproach of the factory correct look. That solves my second question.

Any opinions on my first question: Bittersweet color being available for 1957?

Thanks!

Victor

From another question I posted, it seems that Bittersweet was indeed offered for 1957, as member Ttotired pointed out. Some color guides show it as available. Others as a spring color. And yet others don't mention it... but gladly there are a few that do, so I will take that route and paint it in Bittersweet upper part with Dover white under the spear.

http://paintref.com/cgi-bin/colorcodedisplay.cgi?year=1957&make=Buick&model=All&gncl=All&action=Get+Paint+Codes

http://paintref.com/cgi-bin/paintdetail.cgi?paint=1957|Buick|Bittersweet

Thanks!

Victor

On ‎8‎/‎11‎/‎2016 at 6:17 PM, v.milke said:

...it seems that Bittersweet was indeed offered for 1957...so I will take that route and paint it in Bittersweet upper part with Dover white under the spear.

http://paintref.com/cgi-bin/colorcodedisplay.cgi?year=1957&make=Buick&model=All&gncl=All&action=Get+Paint+Codes

http://paintref.com/cgi-bin/paintdetail.cgi?paint=1957|Buick|Bittersweet

 

If you are chasing trophies for authenticity AND IF the current BCA Judging Handbook, 2005 edition, Page 53 is indeed correct, 1956 Buick Paint Code T was assigned to  BITTER SWEET.....and Buick Paint Code T was assigned to DAWN GREY in 1957. BITTER SWEET is not listed as a standard 1957 Buick color. 

If you analyze the two links you reference, they are contradicting. I would be interested in knowing what Buick document everyone else (besides Sean and myself) is saying BITTER SWEET was available as a standard color for the 1957 production run.

Thanks.

Al Malachowski

BCA #8965

"500 Miles West of Flint"   

I've got a Buick car order form dated June 10th, 1957 which would be near the end of the model year.  It has Arctic Blue, Mariner Blue, Gulf Green, Hunter Green, Sylvan Grey, and Dusk Rose on it for Spring colors, but no Bittersweet.

http://paintref.com/cgi-bin/chipdisplay.cgi?year=1957&manuf=GM&smodel=Buick&info=yes&page=3

I also have one dated December 20th, 1956.  No Bittersweet on it either.  You can find a copy of it here:

http://www.teambuick.com/reference/years/57/order_form.php

From the references that you posted, there is a '57 Bittersweet color listed.

http://paintref.com/cgi-bin/chipdisplay.cgi?year=1957&manuf=GM&smodel=Buick&info=yes&page=2

Very bottom right code *56-T

4 minutes ago, RivNut said:

From the references that you posted, there is a '57 Bittersweet color listed.

 

http://paintref.com/cgi-bin/chipdisplay.cgi?year=1957&manuf=GM&smodel=Buick&info=yes&page=2

 

Very bottom right code *56-T

 

 

Yes, that is part of the confusion.  If you read the footnote (*) it indicates that this is a 1956 spring color, hence the 56 in front of the code.

To clarify:  1955 Buick spring colors released in the spring of 1955 were applied to 1955 model year cars.  1956 Buick spring colors released in the spring of 1956 were applied to 1956 model year cars.  1957 Buick spring colors released in the spring of 1957 were applied to 1957 model year cars.  In other words, the calendar year in which the spring colors were released matches the model year to which the colors were applied.  Some websites show 1956 Buick spring colors for 1957, which is a mistake on their part because they have assumed that since it shows up on a manufacturers 1957 color chart it was applied to 1957 cars.  It was cheaper and easier for the paint manufacturers to put the 1955 spring colors on the 1956 chart and the 1956 spring colors on the 1957 chart rather than release a chart with only the spring colors and then have to release a new chart just a few months later when the paint codes changed for the new model year.

I see the same color code T "Bittersweet" listed on the 1956 charts as well.  The way that I read this is that it's a late intro 1956 color that carries over into 1957.  There seems to be too many cross references to the same color on other pages to be a mistake.  

Ed

Since everyone seems to agree that 'Bittersweet' was introduced mid-way through the '56 production run, does it stand to reason that Buick would have offered the color through the remainder of the '56 run and into '57 production until the paint was gone?  I have no idea whether paint was mixed in bulk and stored until called for, or mixed 'just in time' (as today) ...

10 hours ago, RivNut said:

I see the same color code T "Bittersweet" listed on the 1956 charts as well.  The way that I read this is that it's a late intro 1956 color that carries over into 1957.  There seems to be too many cross references to the same color on other pages to be a mistake.  

 

Ed

The paint charts were done by the paint manufacturers and not by Buick.  Production of the 1957 Buick's started on 10/15/1956.  I've posted a link to a 1957 order form dated 12/20/1956.  This would be an early model year order form.  As you can see, it does not have Bittersweet listed on it.  If Bittersweet was a carry-over color, it would be shown on the order form.  If you look at the 1940-1963 Buick Master Chassis Parts Book, you will see that it shows all of the 1957 colors, including the spring colors, but it does not list Bittersweet as a 1957 color, only as a 1956 color.
 

Thank you very much to all for your help and opinions. It seems, based on the 'hard' facts, the orginal literature, that Bittersweet was indeed only a 1956 color and not a 1957 one. 

I am not chasing trophies or anything, but just trying to do a car as close to what I could have ordered from the dealership back then, and if no Bittersweet was available, I wouldn't feel good going for it.. it has happened in the past and then I always regret not having chosen from the original palette. I guess I will have to stick to Garnet red with Dover white under the side moulding.

Thanks again!

Victor

To add to the confussion, look what I found among my files... a 1957 Buick paint chart that shows Bittersweet as available!

1 hour ago, v.milke said:

To add to the confussion, look what I found among my files... a 1957 Buick paint chart that shows Bittersweet as available!

 

Yes, that is the exact same chart that Ed is referring to in post #20 above.  It is one of the paint charts that has resulted in the assumption that has got us into this predicament in the first place, namely that because the color shows up on the manufacturers 1957 color chart it must be a 1957 color.  But if you look closely, you will notice that the manufacturer was careful to place a caveat at the bottom of the paint chart stating that Bittersweet and Apricot are 1956 Spring Colors.  It is also the reason why the manufacturer lists a 56 in front of the paint code on the chart, to indicate that this is a 1956 color and not a 1957 color.

That settles it. Thank you Sean! Garnet red it will be! 

I will consider Dover white (most probably) and Antique Ivory bottom... a friend had suggested apricot, but it turns out it is also a 1956 color.

Thanks again to all who helped.

After looking at the HometowneBuick site and configuring some color combos on the 57, I'd be tempted to recommend Garnet red top and bottom, with Seminole red on the upper body.  That would be a Super car.

Seminole Red and Castle Gray Metallic were carry-over colors, meaning they were used for the 1956 model year carried over to the 1957 model year.  So you could get those colors in both 1956 and 1957.  Rather than include a paint chip for them on the current chart, the manufacurer assumed you would have the previous years chart and they could save a little expense by not duplicating those color chips.

Castle Gray Metallic was replaced by 1957 spring color Sylvan Gray Metallic in April of 1957.

2 minutes ago, sean1997 said:

Castle Gray Metallic was replaced by 1957 spring color Sylvan Gray Metallic in April of 1957.

And that was how my Caballero was originally. Sylvan gray completely (note the XX on my tag). Nice color but rather dull for a Caballero, don't you think?

Garnet Red is a very nice color.  Garnet Red above Antique Ivory was as very popular combination in 1957.

Taken from another thread, here is the factory order sheet.  It will help some.

I have a project car, a 56R I am sure is all original.  There are no codes listed on the accessory line on the data plate.    Dan

"B": Heater - Defroster

"F": Safety Group

"G": Windshield Washer, Wide Angle Wiper

"V" Split back Seat.

Note noted:  Maybe more...

"N" Air Conditioner

As for interior colors/ materials available, I believe all wagons used only the pebblegrain Cordaveen vinyl material (no cloth or woven fabric options). The bodies were built and trimmed by Ionia with usually only 4-5 or so color options.

Thank you Bruce.

If you look at  the post prior to yours, under model 69 which is the Century Caballero, the last option there is "Rust cloth - beige cordaveen", code number 685. That is what I intend to use. The rest of the options, you are correct, all show cordaveen.

victor

Progress?

Hmmmm... not much really. The shop where the Caballero was being done closed. The bodywork was finished but not painted, and it was fitted already on the chassis. They delivered all the parts back, of course. Now I need to paint and assemble... and find some missing parts, of course.

victor

On 6/6/2017 at 10:50 AM, V.Milke said:

Hmmmm... not much really. The shop where the Caballero was being done closed. The bodywork was finished but not painted, and it was fitted already on the chassis. They delivered all the parts back, of course. Now I need to paint and assemble... and find some missing parts, of course.

 

victor

 

 

Hello! Just wondering what ever became of your Caballero?! 

Well... basically the same, just gathering more dust, stored, while I find the time and the proper shop to finish the restoration. I still need a few parts also. 

1 hour ago, V.Milke said:

Well... basically the same, just gathering more dust, stored, while I find the time and the proper shop to finish the restoration. I still need a few parts also. 

 

 

Looks good! Just picked up a 57 Buick wagon and been searching the internet trying to gather as much info as I can! I’m needing to repair lots of rust on the floors. Waiting on my book to see how to remove the seats. Do they just unbolt from under the car or so I have to remove side trim pieces and remove from inside the car)? Did you have to do any floor repair?