Renault 1929 RY1 Monasix

Hello Ian and Rob

Ian, Thanks for the offer, I now have two very helpful friends in France. Perhaps I will get to see the Dodge are you taking it to Tony McConnell for the trim? We will be at the VDC Swapmeet next Sunday.

Ron, if you can manage to pass on his details I would be very interested, according to the French RAG Forum there are very few of my model, 1927-9 "Monasix RY-RY1" known to exist.

Cordialement

Bernie j.

Hi, I'll ask him if it is OK to pass on details.He has a lot of exotics stored away and understandably cautious about who knows what is where in his collection. But he was most keen on the Renault ,although it's in similar condition to the one in France and was talking about starting on it soon. As with most of us he realizes his mortality .so many cars,so little time.:D

That is a common problem, at 78 I too wonder how much time I have. One reason why I only ever have one project car at a time and the Lagonda Rapier, which is almost up to 100,000 miles since I rebuilt it in 1979. I would hate to leave a pile of "stuff" for my family to get rid of. All to often next of kin give up and just send it all to the scrap metal man or the rubbish dump.

Bj.

Hi Bernie,

yes mine is going to Tony but I'm still a way off yet.

knowing me you'll be finished your car and half way through the next before mine gets there.

Ill send you a message when it gets there.

Regards

Ian

Hi Ian

Not with the Renault! It is the most frustrating car I have attempted. The only place it seems to find parts is France and the French move only at their own pace. Like the rest of the Northern Hemisphere it is winter and too cold to expect people to go fossicing about in what ever they call their barns or sheds. Officially it is the first week of Spring so "Hope springs eternal". The other problem is of course according to the experts the 1927-9 Monasix RY and RY1 are the rarest of all vintage Renaults but I am sure that would probably apply to whatever the model that I am looking for parts for is. Ok well! As one of my French friends keeps reminding me "Patience Bernie Patience..........

Meanwhile I am busy cleaning up obscure bits like door latches that I will not be needing for another 12 months if then.

Bj.

With the help of two or three of my very good friends in France I have now arranged to buy a complete 1929 Monasix engine from the south of France. It has been inspected and is complete with manifolds, carburettor, dynastart etc. It will certainly be a far better start than the box full of rubbish I was sold from New Zealand.

You live and learn!

Bj.

That is good Bernie. I bet you feel relieved, emotionally AND financially. All joking aside, it is nice to see you get that score. You deserve it and will use it right.

Hello Pat, Good to hear from you again.

At present all I can hope is that eventually I will have enough to actually start this restoration or perhaps more acurately "rebuild", having some hope that it can/will be finished. If you are not totally confused after that you are doing better than I am. To add insult to injury the wheel rims ordered from a supplier in (Yes, you guessed it) New Zealand last November still have no firm delivery date.

Bj.

Miraculously the wheel rims from NZ have just arrived.

Bj.

This restoration seems to have lots of surprises in store, like a true French Coquette it reveals just a little at a time. Having had the bonnet (hood) sandblasted and prime coated, trial fitting the diamond shaped badge to the front revealed an extra hole two or three inches above the badge. I had been aware that in addition to the standard model Mona-six there was a luxury version entitled the Mona-stella. These were designated by the inclusion of a 'star' above the badge. I will leave it to you to compare the two photographs and to draw your own conclusions. Unfortunately none of the original trim remains but I am sure that judging by his earlier work, my favourite trimmer, Tony McConnell, is more than capable of the required level of excellence when eventually the time comes.

Todays photograph comes as a subtle pictorial warning. The bearing has the correct number of balls but the "cage" has disappeared.

The most plausible theory is that the brass cage had, over a number of years, been 'disolved' by an extreme pressure (EP) additive in the grease or a heavy EP gear oil.

People with worm drive rear axles will be aware of the dangers of using this type of additive in relation to brass and bronze.

To be on the safe side do not use EP gear oils anywhere there is brass or bronze bushes. ie Gearboxes or Rear axles.

Bj.

For those that can get it, the best option for these applications is DELO Gear Oil. I has great EP qualities, and NO sulfur/phos. The Borate additive is polar rather than chemical. I use a similar product in many industrial applications.

My bearing supplier is of the opinion that the bearing, despite the failure of the cage, is almost certainly original equipment making it over 80 years old. I have now replaced the bearings cleaned out all the old grease and packed the new ones with Penrite wheel bearing (high melting point) grease. Personally I am not worried if they do nor last another 80 years. I can now move on to the next task to be undertaken.

For years Peugeot had a bronze worm for the rear axle and they used a specific lubricant; the last model to use it was the 404 in the seventies. This is also a way to explore.

Thank you Roger

I have owned and driven Peugeots for years, my present daily driver is 1996 405 SRi. We bought it when it was about 6 months old, it had been a company car. It still is a great car to drive and I would not think of selling it.

Bj

At last the Air Freight Company is due to collect the next engine from south east France next Monday. As an added bonus there will be another dash board asembly with another Jaeger Speedo and Amp meter and an Oil Pressure gauge to add to the Petrol gauge and switch assembly I already have. Even better considering its French origin the Speedo will be calibrated in Kilometres. Australia changed to Metric measure quite a few years back.

At last the Air Freight Company is due to collect the next engine from south east France next Monday. As an added bonus there will be another dash board asembly with another Jaeger Speedo and Amp meter and an Oil Pressure gauge to add to the Petrol gauge and switch assembly I already have. Even better considering its French origin the Speedo will be calibrated in Kilometres. Australia changed to Metric measure in 1971.

Progress! Jean-Paul has sent these photographs of the Mona-six engine being made ready for the long journey from the South-east of France to the South-east of Australia.You can clearly see the large flywheel cooling fan and the Dynastart lashed down beside the motor.This mounts onto the front of the timing case and is driven directly from the front of the crankshaft. Carburettor, distributor etc are packed carefully in the smaller boxes.

Merci beaucoup Jean-Paul.

Bernie j.

Bernie, what a great looking little engine. Will you do a full rebuild on it? Do you have an idea as to its condition and history?

Hello John

With the amount of money I have poured into this project so far with little or nothing to show for it, I am hoping that the engine will require little more than a freshen up. Valve grind, and new piston rings etc. Perhaps a cam grind and a modest raise in compression. It comes from a farm in the south east of France in the Drone Region. Knowing the reputation of French farmers it could be anything. At least it is complete and comes with the strange Renault designed carburettor and the Paris-Rhone Dyna-start. Jean-Paul who has been looking after the French end of the Transport, collecting the engine cleaning it and packing it has had a look at and has not found anything calamatis! Hopefully in complete contrast to the load of rusty rubbish from New Zealand it will be OK.

I will know a whole lot more in about two weeks time. Meanwhile I collected the five wheels with their new rims welded in place this afternoon. I should be able to give them their first coat of paint over the next two or three days. A lovely dark green is the colour.

As I have never seen one up close the carburettor looks like a "treat waiting discovery" one word that could describe it from the drawing is "complicated". Again all will be revealed in about two weeks time.

Bj.

Having collected the 5 Michelin Disk wheels yesterday from the wheel works where they have all had new 18 inch rolled edge, well base rims fitted. I previously had a mixture of beaded edge (clincher) and well base rims. Now I have a set of matching wheels. Funny thing about the colour,but it seems that green is a re-occuring colour of choice for wheels on my cars. Renault supplied a huge number of cars to the principle Taxi operator in Paris during the 1920s. They were all painted two tone green. OK! Bugattis were painted blue but they came from Alcase in the Lorraine and Ettore Bugatti was born in Italy. I just happen to have a thing about green wheels. I promise that I will not paint the car white. No, not even Ivory, but that is still a little way off.

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Bj.

How to fill in an hour? 90 year old sheet metal tends to be like 90 year old people. Less than perfect. This section of the Renault foot board had a hole that had been cut by an enthusiastic amateur, probably using his only power tool a 1/4 inch drill. I do not claim to be the worlds best welder especially of sheet metal but at around $100 per hour I could not really justify/afford to have it repaired professionally. I am old-fashioned enough to continue to use my oxy-acetylene torch for welding. After all when at some time in the future it is covered with carpet who is going to see it?

I could have cut the patch slightly oversize and riveted it into place but then Pop-rivets were not in general use 90 years ago.

If you are wondering, yes it is a 100 year old Dodge wheel spoke that you can see through the hole. Well seasoned hickory has all sorts of uses, a light mallet for example.

The super-observant will have noticed the original Renault (taxi) green paint on the patch. Not one to waste anything the supply of sheet metal comes from a pan originally under the rear seat of the derelict four door saloon body. The green for the wheel colour is remarkably close to this. Ultimately it is planed to use this green as the darker of the two tone green colour scheme for the body.

Bj

It may seem that I am filling my days with mindless tasks but they are all things that must eventually be done and while I am waiting for the apparently endless paperwork to be completed so the engine that I bought what seems like lifetime ago can finally leave France I am taking the opportunity to tick a few boxes. My Renault is one of the last of the models produced with the radiator mounted in two sections one either side at the rear of the engine. The top tank acts as a bridge linking the two together and a collector pipe forms the link at the bottom. This requires no less that four water transfer ports each with quite a complex gasket to seal the joints. I have managed to make these laminated cork gaskets over the last two days. Being the Easter Holidays I have not worked full time but probably for a total of about four hours. i.e. and hour each which may seem excessive but not when you consider that each gasket is laminated out of three pieces of sheet cork using two layers of 3mm sheet and one layer of 2mm. Each piece of cork had to be individualy hand cut.Hopefully the photos may go some way in explaining.

If you look closely at the fifth photograph you will note that the gasket is in fact three layers with the bottom 2mm layer cut so that it forms the seal between the top tank and the radiator. The three pieces of cork will be bonded together using silicone to form the one gasket.

Bernie, any word on when the Mona-six engine will arrive?

Yes, these are the little things that we go through, with nothing much to show, but in the end they make it run or give the right touches.

When I make gaskets like that, I prefer "Gasket Shellac" to silicon. Stays in place better and does not stretch around. I also use this on any gasket that should have something to seal it.

Hi Richard

In theory I agree with you when I used the word silicone, it was as a generic term. I have used a variety of things over the years. The ones I am using at present is a Permatex Ultra Copper high temperature silicone and Loctite Number 4 Gasket cement. The Permatex is convenient to carry in the Lagonda Rapier's tool bag mainly for emergency use. The Loctite bottle has a nasty habit of leaking unless stored up-right. Having said that the little brush attached to the inside of the lid is very convenient to use in the workshop.

Meanwhile although the Renault re-build may seem to have slowed, I have just ordered a NOS Clutch shaft from Depanoto in Central France and I have finally organised the shipping of the motor coming from the south-east of France. I should have both these in about three weeks depending on the Australian Customs Service. They are both coming Budget Air Freight. I have found that Air Freight is ony slightly more expensive than surface shipping (by sea) and much more reliable. Anything less than a full container load (FCL) Sea Freight can take between four and six months. For smaller parcels the French Post Office Coloissimo service is fast and reliable and the parcel is delivered to my door.

Paul

I had put the collection of the Monasix Engine "on-hold". I felt that without the clutch shaft I could never be sure of completing this project. As the cost of shipping is about $2,000 I reasoned that it would be insane to pay that to import a motor that I may never have any use for. Added to that if I did have to re-sell the motor I would have a far better chance of selling it on in France than here in Australia where there are no other 1929 Renaults. While the clutch shaft that is coming from Depanoto is not exactly the correct one for a RY1, I am hopeful that I may be able to modify it to do the job.

My friends on the Renault d'Avant Guerre Forum have again prooved incredably helpful.

Bj

Perhaps I should explain, pre 1930 Renaults were almost unique in having their radiators mounted behind the engine or as in the case of the late 1920s cars two radiators, one mounted at each side of the flywheel, which incorporated a large fan. While the clutch was mounted on the rear of the flywheel there is a drive shaft, about 12 inches long, linking the clutch to the gearbox. An outer tube acts as the linkage between the clutch pedal and the actual clutch. The clutch adjustment is built into this tube.

If you polish your bi-focals and put on your thinking caps you may be able to follow the workings from the diagram, below, The outer tube is hi-lited in yellow. Anyone thinking that this is somewhat convoluted is excused. Number 18 is the locking clamp for the screwed adjustment while number 21 is the thrust bearing. Number 22 is a cross shaft carrying the clutch pedal at one end and the clutch withdrawl fork in the centre. Number 23 is the gearbox end of the shaft linked to the only universal joint in the transmission. The actual gearbox is rigidly mounted on the front end of the torque tube.

Confused? :- Join the club!

All this goes in some way to explain why there are so few Pre-1930 Renault left. That and the fact that most if not all Early Renault enthusiasts are deemed to be "Certifiable".....i.e. Totally insane.

Sadly, once infected there is no known cure.

Certain members of the RAG Forum will tell you "Louis" is a synonym for God.

Bj

Certain members of the RAG Forum will tell you "Louis" is a synonym for God.

Bj

For those who have missed the point "Louis" is M.Renault's first name.

RAG is the innitial letters of Renault d'Avant Guerre:- Renault Before the War. (Pre-1939)

Certain members of the RAG Forum will tell you "Louis" is a synonym for God.

Bj

Exactly: one "Louis d'or" was a coin in France, but was issued prior Louis Renault.

There is a new book out (published 2014) titled "The Life of the Automobile" by Steven Parissien. It isn't about cars, it is about the people behind the cars and covers from the first autos right up to 2012. The author looks at all the auto makers the world over and the egos that shaped the companies a good deal of the time.

When not comes to tyrants, Louis Renault makes Henry Ford almost a saint by comparison. The author cites several examples:

A designer got so fed up with M. Renault constantly interfering with his work that he left Renault for Citroen. He said later that it was like moving from an empire to a republic.

Renault had an intense dislike for Andre Citroen. On one occasion he purchased all the land surrounding the Citroen factory by forcing the landowners to accept prices well below the actual property values, evicted all the tenants, bulldozed the buildings and erected huge billboards around the factory which had one word on them in very large letters - R E N A U L T.

Nice guy!!

There are other examples of his tyranny.

Terry

He certainly had his own ideas and at best could be described as a non-conformist. This shows up all to plainly in his motorcars.

Love them or hate them they are certainly DIFFERENT. It is their very uniqueness that makes them so apealing.

Louis Renault died in jail, imprissoned as a Nazi colaborator in 1946. His claim was that by doing work for the Germans he was providing employment for his workers who otherwise would have been deported to work in German factories as slave labour. 70 years later there are still people who say he was right and just as many who say he was wrong. At least he is not forgotten and his name still lives on in cars that even today are considered by many people to be just that little bit too quirky. I do not know about the USA but here in Australia, after an absence from the market for many years, they are making quite an impression, selling in larger numbers than ever before!

Bj.

Thought of you when I saw this 1911 on Saturday

Thank you Richard, quite a bit earlier than mine but can you tell me anything more about it. My friends at Renault Freres in the UK mainly have early cars and I am sure that they would be interested if they do not already know it. There are just a few early Renaults that are known in the USA.

My good news is that a clutch shaft and outer tube arrived from Depanoto yesterday. Not excatly the correct one but one that can be modified to suit.

Louis Renault must have had supreme confidence in his engineering staff. The drive shaft linking the clutch with the gearbox is 334 mm long and just 14mm diameter over its length. Obviously not expected to transmit 500 hp.

Bj.

I didn't have a chance to chat with the owner. I was visiting in the Washington DC area and every Saturday at a local restaurant about 200 cars show up at 6 am, in theory til 9. But after working late at my son's brewery, I got there at 8, and he was climbing aboard to leave. Drove away with a little smoke.

Here are a couple more pictures

Unfortunately, the above Renault-front is an air-cooled Franklin, not a French Renault.

That is quite funny. I was about to ask for more details. My french friends on the Renault d'Avant Guerre Forum could not understand the exposed overhead valves.

Thank you for enlightening us Richentee.

Bj.

Thanks for the correction. I just assumed and asked the year as he was getting ready to leave.

No problem Richard, it is easy to make mistakes with rare and unusual vehicles.

No mistaking the truck shown in this photograph. It belongs to the son of one of my correspondents Ian Hinks who lives in Mildrua on the Murray River in Northern Victoria, Australia. They have known of the truck's existence for almost 50 years but have only recently been able to purchase it. The engine has now been reconditioned and the truck is drivable. It could easily be the only known early 1920s Renault truck in the world. Anyone know of any in the USA etc.

Bernie j.

My one experience with older Renaults was in 69, when I couldn't convince the owner to sell me one that would have looked like this 1925 Limo. It was sitting in her garden with a piece of tin on top, 7000 km on the dial. Once upon a time it was the Presidential limousine. I remember the silver window frames that were signed by the craftsmen.

When I move back I tried hard to find it, but the city had grown up around that zone, the woman had died. I learned a lot about the history of the missing car, but never learned what happened to it.

A good friend and fellow VSCC of Aust member Graeme Steinfort has just sent me a copy of this Renault advertisement from the English Motor Sports magazine of October 1925. It is a pity that it is two years too early to show the Monasix which would have fitted in between the two bottom rungs of the ladder.

Louis Renault would have never tolerated the present day "one size fits all" policy

Bj

Their was a pair of them together up the Buckland Valley into the 1970s. A bloke from a far back in the flat country towards Wangaratta got one to restore. I was told who got the other to restore, but did not enter the detail to memory. Probably not profitable prospect for you to restore and market, Bernie.