Packard Darrin

Looking for an unrestored Packard Darrin. Any year. Can't afford a restored one. What have you got?

Last unrestored Darrin I saw was about 10 years ago at Hershey. It was a 39 180 and went for around 200. I thought it was a decent deal at the time. The one off Rollston Sport sedan which looks like one of the 3 Darrin sedans sold last year for something a bit north of that. It had been restored about 30 years ago and needed to be done again.

The few, if any, usable unrestored Darrins left, are possibly worth more than a restored one.

Generally, it is much less expensive to buy a restored car than to buy one and then restore it.

My brother bought the 1940 Darrin convertible sedan at the RM Auction in Detroit last month. It went for $236,000. Very high point car.

Edited August 26, 2014 by West Peterson (see edit history)

Bob, that sounds like a Kaiser Darrin you're describing. Perhaps a cheaper alternative to a 1940's Packard Darrin.

Does anyone know how many repro Packard Darrin bodies have been made?

Yes, no sliding door on a Packard Darrin!

I was lucky enough to be in Denver a few weeks ago, and went by the Cussler museum, quite an impressive collection of cars on display. I started chatting with a fellow sitting on a stool, turns out he was the guy who had the restoration shop where the museum sits, and does Cussler's work. Somehow we started talking Packards, and he mentioned he was restoring a Packard Darrin for the collection. I commented that I'd upholstered one, and what lousy workmanship the body was...and he went on and on, saying he couldn't believe that such a poorly built car would be sold to celebrities, movie stars and so forth....bad welding, patch panels, different dimensions side to side...all things I'd observed while working on one (was owned by the late Bill Pettit).

I agree that, even if you could find an unrestored one at this point, you'd be better off paying the bank interest on a loan for a restored one than paying a restoration shop....even if you did it yourself, an extremely expensive car to restore.

Either way, you'd need deep pockets.......not saying you don't have them, just making the observation......

There are still unrestored Packard Darrins out there. I have come across a few since West's brother bought the '40 convertible sedan last month. Yes, the original work on them was poor. Years ago I had a '41. One side of the body was 1" longer than the other side. This fact was hidden by the factory by putting runningboards on the car. But it was a fun car to drive. 100 mph was easy with the 356 and OD. I made the mistake of deciding it should be a 100 point car instead of a great driver. My pockets were not deep enough. Sold it and have forever regretted it. The cars I have found so far were, "... sold last year..." or not for sale or being willed to the great grand child. I am still optimistic.

Good luck on your search.....they are beautiful cars....if you could drive it 100 mph and not have cowl shake or a door popping open, you had a good one....I sure understand seller's remorse, numerous cars I sold for the wrong reasons...

In the 1980s a guy in Washington State cast a dozen or so cowls. There are probably about that many reproductions floating around.

The Packard Darrin I previously owned was a 1941. At that point in time the factory was more involved in redoing the body. From the cowl forward it was all stock Packard with the doors hinged at the front. So driving it was not a challenge. No shaking. No doors popping open.

My dad has owned his 40 180 for about 55 years. Has driven it a lot. My brother used it for his prom. Anyways, not rattles and the doors have never popped open. I think the build quality reputation came from the Hollywood built cars.

One thing I don't get, how does a 35 Auburn Speedster bring 1.2 million (an aberration for sure usually more like 500k) and decent Darrin Packards sell for 2-300k?

Understood...the earlier cars had issues, that cast cowl with hood extension was beautiful, but not stable....pictured here is the car that I did upholstery and top for, one of the most difficult trimming jobs I've ever done...as nothing fit and nothing matched...and top has no solid front header, just two pieces of metal that clip into the top of the windshield frame....so making a top from scratch is challenging to say the least....I drove the car with the permission of the late Mr. Pettit, and while it ran fine, there was some shake and other issues...and this car had a professional, no expense spared restoration....again, beautiful car, but some of them suffer in drivability.....if that's the correct word...

Dave, what year? Is it a 39? I have to say, my dad's car is the easiest, most comfortable, prewar car I have ever driven. It has overdrive so it just cruises on the highway. Never understood why they don't bring any money.

You know, it seems silly, that's the car sitting in my driveway getting ready to go home, that was 10 or so years ago, and I just can't remember what year it was.....I have more pictures but the Packard experts surely can verify year...I want to say it was '40, but just don't remember..

Wait, I just Googled it, yes, 1940, I did the Darrin and the Cord, upholstery and top.....I did the Cord, and he was so happy that he brought me the Darrin (from Florida to Virginia)....he told me the story of the Cord...he'd admired it in a fellow's collection, back in the 50's or 60's, tried to buy it but not for sale...one day his mother and father asked him over for dinner, his father said let's walk out in the garage, there something I want to show you...and there sat the Cord, his parents bought it for him....a good while later, he decided to sell it, got the money from a long distance buyer, shipped it off, fellow was very mad about condition so Bill refunded money and got car back....happiest moment of my life, he said, seeing the Cord come back....it was a wonderful restoration done by the gentleman in Florida who knows Cords like no one else....

Bill was one of the nicest and most easy going car collectors around, he'd inherited quite a few cars from his father, and had a warehouse with 100 or so cars in it, in Louisa Virginia, before he whittled down the collection and moved to Florida.

Another side story, he also had some nice engines, restored and on stands, V12's and V16's...he was at my house when I wanted to sell an older 20 foot enclosed trailer, he said David, that'd be perfect to move the engines down to Florida....I wanted 1600 for trailer, he offered 1400, I held firm, and he negotiated with me for an hour and finally paid my price.....even the wealthy watch their dollar bills!! Or maybe I should say, they're wealthy BECAUSE they watch their dollar bills....

http://classiccars.about.com/od/2001ClassicCarEvents/a/Pettit-Family-Collection-Coming-To-Pebble-Beach.htm

We restored a 1908 Pullman that my customer bought from Bill after years of negotiating, cajoling and probably whining. The title had been transferred to Bill in 1949. The Pullman was not much of car. Tiny 4 cylinder. I was amazed that the car actually managed to rack up enough miles when new to totally wear out the suspension. Takes a few miles to wear a spring shackle pin from it's original 5/8" diameter to less than 1/4" diameter even on the dusty roads of the day. Bill actually had 2 early Pullman autos, both now back in their hometown of York, PA.

Sorry we're highjacking the Darrin conversation....Bill had a great collection of cars, a friend bought a wonderfully original 1910 Reo from him, right behind it was a beautiful original '10 or so Stanley...that I could have bought for $40K the day we got the Reo...sounded high, but that's a $100K plus car now....Bill would sell cars, but every year his price went up accordingly, just a tad over market, enough to scare a lot of people away...

TSM, it's interesting to me that you've found that many unrestored Darrins, if someone owns one unrestored, it's one of the few cars that you might get most of your money out of a restoration....and as mentioned, with some cowls cast as repros, many moons ago, it gets harder and harder to tell what's an unrestored real car vs. a non finished replica....

I've been in the old car hobby for 50 years, and I have continued to be amazed at the cars that can be found. As in all things in life, it is all about the timing, as told in all the above stories.

A real Packard Darrin should be fairly easy to identify as the Darrin body number is stamped all over the place and in sneaky spots.

Like with most collector cars, one with history that ends sometime in the 1970s or 80s should not be valued as high as one that goes back 50 or 60 years.

Edited August 28, 2014 by alsancle (see edit history)

I've been in the old car hobby for 50 years, and I have continued to be amazed at the cars that can be found. As in all things in life, it is all about the timing, as told in all the above stories.

Tom

I remember your car. If I'm not mistaken, it was one of the Benacek cars, wasn't it? The 1941s are my favorite as well. In fact, I've often said to myself that if I had to pick ONE collector car to have in my garage, it would be the 1941 Darrin. There is an ALL ORIGINAL 1941 Darrin in the Packard Museum here in Dayton.

Trimacar

I suspect that even though the Petit car was a no-expense-spared restoration, it probably didn't have its front end rebuilt, or at least rebuilt properly. As Al says, the 1940 Packards are as smooth to drive as a modern car (not to mention the most powerful production car built at the time). If that car was shaking, something was wrong and it had nothing to do with the body work. I drove a 1940 from Orlando to Atlanta once. Wonderful driving car. I also drive my own 1940 Packard at freeway speeds (overdrive), and it's just loafing as it keeps up with 75mph traffic.

Edited August 28, 2014 by West Peterson (see edit history)

West, you could be correct that there was something amiss about the front end of the Darrin I worked on and drove. I drove it about 5 miles, getting up to about 50, and the car had a noticeable shake.

Bill Pettit had most of his mechanical work done in Florida by Harry Van Iderstine, who is known for meticulous mechanical work (particularly on Cords), but it's possible he didn't work on this Darrin.

This is the Cord that I did upholstery and top for Mr. Pettit...he had excellent original front seat patterns, my Cord has excellent original rear seat and inside rear quarter upholstery, so had great patterns for this car.

http://www.rmauctions.com/lots/lot.cfm?lot_id=1063854

He also had the original upholstery out of the Darrin, which made my job a little easier, but it was still a job that had it's share of developmental challenges....

Dave

Interesting that they used a Junior trunk rack on Pettit's Darrin.... from an earlier year, too, if I'm not mistaken. And no bumper guards. I don't know what the hood ornament is from. Can't tell from that photo if its a wrong-type Packard cormorant, or something different altogether.

Well, TSM, we're keeping your Darrin search at the top, hope you don't mind!

Here are a couple more pictures of the Darrin that Pettit owned, again sitting in my driveway getting ready to go home, he bought it from the original owner. I'd be surprised if he changed anything, but who knows after that long, luggage rack and hood ornament could have been shuffled by original owner and Pettit may not have wanted to change it. For example, my Pierce has a helmeted archer radiator cap, supposed to be a bare headed archer...I could easily replace as I have a bare headed in my memorabilia collection...but it's the one that's been on the car since the 50's, so there it stays!

Nice car! I would get rid of the bumper guards, hood ornament and trunk rack asap. Dutch Darrin would be with me 100% on the cleanup.

There was a 1942 Packard 180 Darrin Convertible Victoria in a private collection in Farmington Hills at one time. Back in 2007, Barry Wolk started a thread called "Rare cars" and had a discussion with West Peterson, gwells, Ivan Saxton and some others about it {plus a Stutz, a Reo Royale, and a Duesenberg Murphy Roadster in the collection}. It's probably in the same place and "NFS", but I remember everyone talking about the owner's remark that one of them "might be for sale at the right price." Note: that was the Stutz. My apologies if this doesn't meet the original parameters TSM spelled out.

Edited August 28, 2014 by jeff_a (see edit history)

Nice car! I would get rid of the bumper guards, hood ornament and trunk rack asap. Dutch Darrin would be with me 100% on the cleanup.

If you get rid of the luggage rack, as opposed to swapping out a correct one, you also have to change the taillights, bumper (and bumper brackes) AND trunk handle. But I agree with your opinion that Darrins look better without a trunk rack.

There was a 1942 Packard 180 Darrin Convertible Victoria in a private collection in Farmington Hills at one time. Back in 2007, Barry Wolk started a thread called "Rare cars" and had a discussion with West Peterson, gwells, Ivan Saxton and some others about it {plus a Stutz, a Reo Royale, and a Duesenberg Murphy Roadster in the collection}. It's probably in the same place and "NFS", but I remember everyone talking about the owner's remark that one of them "might be for sale at the right price." Note: that was the Stutz. My apologies if this doesn't meet the original parameters TSM spelled out.

Jeff

"Bill" has passed away. Not sure what happened to the Darrin. One of the gentleman that helped Bary Wolk paint the Ruxton worked for Bill, so he may know.

Forgive me for putting a picture of a lowly Cadillac in a Packard thread, but don't forget this one.

1941 Cadillac 62 series convertible modified by Darrin. This car was restored about 15 years ago.

The 1940 I worked on sold for $253,000, at auction, trunk rack, ornament, bumper guards and all...wonder if the new owner changed them? Surely in the small world of fine Packards someone knows who has it? http://www.goodingco.com/?s=1940+packard+darrin

Your link leads to the car my brother bought (for someone else) last month in Detroit. It's a four-door Darrin.

Hey West, about 15 years ago there was an all original black Packard Darrin in the Dayton Packard museum that had the rear of the top modified to be solid metal. It was real neat looking. Some people said it wasn't authentic & was done in the 1950's. Do you know the provenance of that car and where it is now?

Forgive me for putting a picture of a lowly Cadillac in a Packard thread, but don't forget this one.

1941 Cadillac 62 series convertible modified by Darrin. This car was restored about 15 years ago.

I don't think the owner of that car has any solid evidence that Darrin did the modifications ... from what I heard him saying at St. Johns last month. Maybe I misunderstood what he was saying, but I thought he said, "We think...."

Hey West, about 15 years ago there was an all original black Packard Darrin in the Dayton Packard museum that had the rear of the top modified to be solid metal. It was real neat looking. Some people said it wasn't authentic & was done in the 1950's. Do you know the provenance of that car and where it is now?

I noticed it was missing, but I keep forgetting to ask what happened to it. Corny Hauck was the guy who donated it to the museum. I always thought the roof came from the Packard concept car (Bronze Bomber??), but I don't think anyone has any real solid information as to its provenance.

Tom (TSM)

I don't think you're getting the response you were hoping for, but one thing's for sure, your want ad is staying at the top!!!

OK, the Bev Kimes edited 2nd CCCA book lists the 1941 Caddy as being built (modified) by coachcraft. So I'm assuming this was done when it was new. Was Coachcraft in Los Angeles?

Coachcraft was indeed in Hollywood. Started by three former Darrin employees, but not Darrin.

http://www.coachbuilt.com/bui/c/coachcraft/coachcraft.htm

Yes, West, my mistake, deleted post, thanks...

Here you go, think this is the correct link to the Pettit Darrin, sold Pebble Beach 2012 for $247,500.... http://www.goodingco.com/vehicle/1940-packard-custom-super-eight-180-convertible-victoria/

Guys, I don't mind all of the additional information on Darrin's cars. It all adds to current history and who has what where. The above sale in 2012 for "$247K @ Pebble Beach" is what keeps me searching for something more affordable. The 40 seems to be the most common. I don't know how many came out of Connersville, but the '41 and '42 are the best built. They even had their flaws. There were supposed to be 35 built for '41 and 15 for '42. A friend had a '40 for a very long time, and always remarked how the doors would pop out, but not totally open, when crossing a railroad track. Which was why he decided to sell it. I think he owned it for 35 years. Owners of '41s and '42s seem to hang on to them.

Do I remember judging a Darrin owned by Bob Turnquist at an AACA meet in Dayton years ago? May have been the Grand National at Carilon Park?

Bob Turnquist owned a '42 Darrin. If my memory is correct, it was the first '42 built, and the first owner was a neighbor of his family. I think it was painted green.

I remember the Serial # (Body# ?) was stenciled on the frame in largish numbers and was visible behind the front wheel. I assume that was original ?

Bob's '42 is now owned by Ralph Marano. Don't know about the stenciled numbers on the frame. I'm sure Bob saw those when he restoreed the car, as it was an original car when he got it. I remember seeing stenciled numberes on my driveshaft before I painted it, too.

The '42 that was owned by Bill Chorkey is now in Colorado.

The '40 that Dave worked on may be in the Packard Museum in Dayton.