1934 Partrs Interchange

Hi all,

I have a 1934 417W and was hoping somebody with a parts interchange book could help me out with the king pins and rod ends. Could somebody please look them up to see if they match up to another vehicle? My goal is to find matching a vehicle that is more common or get the specifications. I suspect a suspension shop could then take that data and get me the parts I need. Hupmobile just isn't common enough for that.

Thank you! Steve

I think The Hollander calls the king pins "spindles". The Hupp 417W and 517W spindle was used in only those vehicles. The manufacturer's number is given as 90054.

Hupp does not get a mention in the Tie Rod Sockets interchange page.

It sounds like you will be getting to know your local machine shop.

"Spindle" normally means the rotating stub axle affixed to the beam axle via the king pin - two different things. Assuming the kin pin isn't anything elaborate I suspect as Spineyhill suggests your going to have them made. You stand a much better chance of finding the bushings (if that's what were used) or making them. And if roller or ball bearings were used there's a good chance you find them from some place like George at Old Car Bearing.

Thank you for the replies, I was hoping to avoid machining costs as they are hard to estimate.

In the attached photo the king pin can be seen as the part that allows the front hub to steer. There is one rod end in the background as well.

I expect the rod ends will be possible to find. Moog has a catalog with all of their measurements in it so I just need to measure them properly and cross reference the measurements into a Part #.

Can anybody else take a crack at the king pins? There should be a listing with bushing(s) and also the pin. My wheels are very loose on the king pins.

Thanks again, Steve

As said before the spindles are the same for 34 and 35 as listed in Hollander. My pre war NAPA catalog shows Monmouth kit A-127 should be what you need for kingpins and bushings. Now that was the part number in 1943. I looked at several other cars in the catalog to see if the A-127 number showed up on any other make, like Packard, gm, mopar and so on but I didn't find it used anywhere else so that is not good news.

A 1940's King Products catalog shows the kingpins to be K-1140. That number seems to be for years 1934-35 only.

Not looking good for an easy fix.

Terry

Perfect, that gives me two part numbers to research. Hopefully something comes up, otherwise, I will get a couple sets made for myself. I plan to use this car quite a bit in the future.

Cheers, Steve

Is that an oilier on top of the spindle? looks the same as Auburn. What is the length and width of your KP's?

Hi Curt,

That is an oiler on the top. I won't be taking the axle off the car until I find a place to restore it so I do not have any measurements on the king pins. It turns out it is pretty difficult to get info on these things...the internet does not have such useful data.

Cheers, Steve

I ended up pulling a front hub from the 417W to get some details on the bearings and took this photo should anybody be curious:

It has regular roller bearings which is nice:

[TABLE=width: 534]

<colgroup><col><col></colgroup><tbody>[TR]

[TD]Front inner wheel bearing[/TD]

[TD]Timken 14132[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Front inner wheel bearing race[/TD]

[TD]Timken 14274[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Front outer wheel bearing[/TD]

[TD]Timken 1755[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Front outer wheel bearing race[/TD]

[TD]Timken 1730

[/TD]

[/TR]

</tbody>[/TABLE]

A part number for a seal is TBD, it was a custom job with some felt sandwiched in it.

Steve

Just noticed your inquiry....

March 36 King Products (they must've issued these every month !??!) has a note on the tie rod ends: "...tie rod socket and intermediate rod MUST BE INSTALLED TOGETHER..." (their capitals)...TWO SETS are listed for "...1934 417W, 421J..." can send specs, and for king pins, if wanted...the socket fits a whole array of cars, only the intermediate rod makes the sets different...

All tie rod sections seem to be headed "Tie Rod Sockets and Intermediate Rods"

Your king pins ("king bolts" in the catalog) show for, as mentioned above, 34-35 417W and 517W....

Remember parts co's sometimes devised "universal" parts that'd fit/work without always being perfect factory duplicates, and, conversely, give parts that'd actually interchange their own different numbers for different cars...

Any halfway decent bearing outfit should be able to furnish or match your bearings, unless they're some weird oddities...

King Products K-1140 lists as .810 OD, 5 5/32 Length Under Head (whatever that means) and "Pin type" (other types are Threaded, Plain, and Spec. (special?))...

There're several quite close: same diam and Pin type, only slightly longer...grind 'em off??

You'll have to find out if all "pin type" are the same---while there's no catalog section for king bolt pins (bushings, yes, but no "pins"), that's not proof they're all exactly alike...

Incidentally, king bolt spec list is also headed "steering knuckle bolts"...

Have you been talking to the Hupp club people on this?? Some other period Hupp king pins are very close...

In case you want to drive it, find a nice dusty farm road--the dustier the better--you'll be amazed at how quickly a little dirt and dust'll take up the slack in your pins, and I speak from misspent youth experience...you didn't make the mistake of greasing them and/or your tie rod ends, did you??? That's often the best way to bring on the wobblies...With sympathy, Bud

Hi Bud,

Thank you for all of the information. It is interesting that the documentation uses different names than what I was searching for. The reason I am after this data is because my right wheel is really wobly, it moves a good 3/4" back and forth. The car is new to me and I won't be able to license it without having it pass a mechanical inspection...not that it has a working engine or interior but those are other problems to deal with.

I have sent off the paperwork to get into the Hupmobile Club so I am looking forward to seeing what is available through it. There are under 20 of these cars left in the world and they claim to have an expert for each model which is nice.

What I have found so far is a good website for wheel and axle bearings: http://hagensautoparts.com/1934/hupmobile/1204/ I also found that http://restorecarsclassifieds.com/wiki has information including wheel alignment specs and steering box adjustment but it is really hard to navigate.

If it isn't too much trouble perhaps you could take photos of the rod end and king pin pages and post them here.

Thanks again, Steve

My set had a nervous breakdown awhile back, and since has transmitted in GB instead of KB...got inst's here somewhere to reduce size, but never get around to it...

Would be redundant anyhow, as the club will have the reliable info you need, as well as be the most accurate source...parts catalogs are often weak reeds to lean on...

If for some reason club can't help may just post; for small stuff easier than taking pic, trans to cpmptr, trying to transmit, etc (low-tech here!).