1964 convertible advice needed

I recently acquired a 1964 Wildcat convertible. This is my second Buick rag top, the former being a '69 225. The operation of the top and the boot installation on the Electra were always simple and trouble free. This '64 is a bit different.

The top appears to be original and in "good" condition. It came with the boot in its track, flipped into the back seat area. After checking the rams and motor, my plan was to lower the top, remove the boot and do some unfettered cleaning. The car came with the original 1964 booklet for convertible top operation so, even though this looked to be a little different than the '69, I was confident all would be well.

I lowered the windows, unzipped the rear window and layed it in the well. Then, following the directions, lowered the top, stopping 2 feet short to pull the top material onto the deck lid to be folded. Then the top was to be completely dropped and the material on the deck folded over on top bows.

I was not able to get any where near the amount of top material out over the trunk to be folded as was pictured in the booklet. Finally lowered the top as deep as it would nest, but there was still so much stacked up at the boot channel ends that removal was blocked. I then attempted to see if the top would actually fit. After much work it finally snapped down all around but the locks sit so high under the boot that it could easily be punctured. I searched the web for a '64 convertible top video but no luck. This is nothing like the "69 - which is okay; they'e different cars, that's what gives them personality. I just need some guidance and advice as to whether this is normal for this year model and I'll learn to deal with it or am I missing something?

Thanks to all for taking the time and enjoy your Buick weekend!

Jim

BCA 43102

My 63 was never able to be in the down position exactly like the manual showed either, but I could always snap the boot. I think (if I am reading your post correctly) that your "stack height" may be off. There are a lot of adjustments to make to the top mechanisms. 61-64 Impalas are the same exact top mechanism, if that would expand your search any.

If you can post a picture of the problem you would like to solve, it may help.

Thanks Mike,

I was awayfor the weekend. Willl post picture to illustrate what I mean buy "stack height". Will also expand search to include Impala, same year.

Jim

Mike,

Here are 2 photos, side view and from interior. You can see from the interior view how much of the top is stacked above the end of the boot channel. The boot cannot be slid from its channel with the top obstructing its path. Never having this year/model convert before, I expected the top to nest at least flush to the uper most body structure around it (the well trim, for example) as with the '69. The boot was easily removed/installed on that car.Hope the pictures shed some light, or maybe this is normal for this make/model/year, in which case I will learn to work with this configuration.

Thanks,

Jim

Hi Jim,

Here are two pictures with my top down (no boot installed). The exterior shots look about right, maybe there is fabric bunching between the frame? I no longer have my body book for this car, so I can't tell you how to adjust the frame down. Sorry.

Not sure about the differences between your 64 and a 65' Electra, but I never unzip my window (glass) before lowering the top. I've had the top down hundreds of times over the past 40 years and never a problem. I have the manuals for the 65 if you need any copies of pages. Any chance someone put the spare tire up in the well and it's stopping the top from going down all the way? Is the hydraulic pump for the top sitting where it's suppose to be? Not sure what you mean when you talk about fabric laying on the trunk? All of the fabric in mine folds up neatly in the frame and never hangs over and touches the trunk.

Bill

Nice Cat Mike,

The position of the lowered top, as seen in the photos, allows ample room for sliding the boot in and out of the channel? Also; when lowering, do you unzip the window or leave it in place. Friend with a '60 Buick said he, "Always unzips the top before lowering".

Thanks again,

Jim

Hi Bill,

Spare is where it needs to be, flat on the floor. Pump is anchored in the appropriate location. The "fabric laying on the trunk" comment comes from the separate '64 instruction booklet demonstrating how to properly lower and raise a convertible top. I'll post a couple pages to show you what I mean. But about now (per Mike's '63, above) it looks like that's the way it is. I was trying to go "by the book" but sometimes... well, you know.

Thanks,

Jim

PS - My first car was a '65 Buick

"fabric laying on the trunk" is how it is described in 55 also. I find you also need to be sure the pads are not caught between the scissors when folding.

Thanks Jim,

The pads between the bows are what I am guessing also. I think the reason you are supposed to unzip the window is so that the plastic window doesn't crease. It will go down with the window zipped and not make a noticeable difference that I remember. Since my car wasn't a "show car" in my mind, I often would just put the top down quickly without unzipping and folding. The Texas sun would uncrease the window the next time it was up. I think both of the pictures above were before I even had a boot, but it did just slide in (with some lube) with the top down.

Here's a troubleshooting guide from my '65 Manual. I know it's not the same but it might give you a direction to look.

I remember getting a new top from the bone yard (2 doors down from my house) for free when I was in college for my car. It was from a LeSabre and soon found out that it would not fit. I remember making an adjustment or two to get my old top to fit again. Can't remember if it wouldn't go up or down all the way, but I had to adjust the arm linkage.

Good Luck

Bill

Thanks to Mike, Bill and old Tank -

As promised, below are pages from the '64 convertible owners manual that got me started asking these questions. These photos might help explain my earlier questions about not being able to lower the top per the instructions, as my '69 Electra operated differently. So; does anyone's '64 (or other early '60's Buick) function as illustrated? I was not able to pull any measurable top material onto the deck for folding and laying on top of the collapsed bows.

Thanks,

Jim

BCA

Chicago, IL

Former Buicks:

'65 Wildcat

'69 Wildcat

'70 Riv

'72 Riv

'69 225 conv.

Current:

'64 Wildcat conv.

"I was not able to pull any measurable top material onto the deck for folding and laying on top of the collapsed bows."

Either the manual is wrong or someone took some 'liberties' with the installation or there are non-original parts. Since all full size GM convertibles (tops) would be the same, inspection of another car would solve.

Old Tank,

I agree. If there are any readers/members with the same top, which operates as indicated in the booklet and are willing to demonstrate, I would welcome the opportunity to view it in action. Equally; if there is anyone with a similar car that functions contrary to the manual (like mine), would like to see that too. I am in the Chicago metro area. I doubt if anything has been done to this this car as there are many little things that were never changed from new. Top appears original as does the entire car. Purchased from estate for original owner and he appears to have been very conscientious about originality. I have a box he marked and saved with the factory plug wires and a spare Wildcat center cap in OEM packaging.

Thanks for the comment!

Jim

Seems like the top could still be pulled out from between the top mechanism, even if the pads were done incorrectly. The top material is only attached to the front header bow and the metal strip in the well (behind the liner). EDIT: and the rear bow above the window. (Whoops)

Next thing I would check would be the cables inside of the top.

I dunno. Just shooting in the dark now.

Where are you located Jim?

There has to be somebody around there with an Impala you can compare it to.

Edited August 15, 2014 by buick5563
Running off at the mouth without thinking first (see edit history)

Hey Jim,

I have a 1960 and 1964 Impala convertible. I was also told it is best to unzip the window before you lower the window due to less chance of causing creases in the plastic window and to try to make the window as flat as you can. I too have the same convertible top manual and I tried to fold the excess fabric to the deck and fold into the rack as the manual states but as soon as I lower my top, there is no loose fabric from the beginning to the end of bringing down the top. I was also told by a few shops after showing them the manual that there shouldn't be any loose fabric and that everything should be stapled and tight to the rack as anything loose in the fabric would cause the wind to blow out the top so to speak when the top is up.

Well that settles that. After the photos, advice and views researched online, it looks like the top is fuctioning normally, given the definition that has of "normal" that has been established here. Thanks 1sw63 for the final word. After being down the same path and having more than one shop affirm your top was not operating improperly, I'm satisafied.

Jim

Don't forget that the vinyl boot can shrink with age. When I got my '68 5467, the boot that came with the car was in the trunk. When I lowered the top and tried to start snapping it on, to see how it all worked, there was no way it would fit . . . unless possibly it spent a week in the 100+ degree Texas Summer Sun. Just something that might be a side issue. I don't know it my boot was OEM or was done by a trim shop, though.

If everything's working fine as is, then a little lube on the top mechanism might be all that's needed, if even that.

On my top, it's stapled at the front header, the rear bow, and where it anchors to the back (somewhere). The bow over the front seat has a flexible connection to that particular bow, too allow for the top material to move upward a little bit "at speed".

On the back windows that unzipped, it seems that they would last longer if they were unzipped and "placed" in the folded top as it was lowered. My glass rear window is sewn in, though, but some of the "glass" windows had a "living hinge" in them, horizontally, so they'd fold as the top folded. As the vinyl rear windows aged, back then, they'd turn yellow and then opaque, so many left them unzipped all of the time, even with the top up (so they could see what was behind them).

As long as your top seems to work well, I'd advise to NOT do any adjustments as the result could easily be something worse than what you now have.

The JOYS of convertible ownership!

Thanks for the pictures.

Enjoy!

NTX5467

Enjoy her while you have it! Always wanted a convertible but to be honestly I mainly drive with the top up. The sun is always roasting the top of my head but good to know that I can drop the top whenever I can.

I agree; summer driving is sometimes uncomfortable. And I will enjoy her as long as I can! In my opinion, this model and year looks better in a 2 door hardtop than convertible. But an open-top drive in the country on a beautiful Autumn afternoon or watching fireworks on Independence Day are memories made for a classic Buick convertible. And living in Chicago; these events are cherished as our driving season is short compared to more moderate regions.