Looking for High Performance distributor for 1941 Pontiac 239ci straight 6

Hi all,

I am just new on this forum. Short intro about me:

Rockabilly music, vintage British Bikes, hotrods, 2 kids and married. Living currently in Saudi Arabia but from origin Dutch

What brings me here?

I have a 1941 Pontiac Torpedo Streamliner de Luxe 239 ci six pots in line and i like to spice it up!.

Therefore i am looking for electronic ignition set to replace to old Delco Remy. Please advice me because i cannot find anything on the web.

Also investigating converting to fuel injection instead of the classic carb setting.

i am looking for usable knowledge from you guys to help me out. Everything is welcome.

Hope to hear from you guys!!!

Pertronix makes electronic ignition for just about everything. Some people like them, but they seem to have a high failure rate in hot places. You could put one in your car, but if I were you I would keep the old points and some tools in the car, just in case.

I suppose it would be theoretically possible to build a fuel injection system for your car. But you would gain little or nothing, and the expense would be something fierce. And once more, I would advise keeping the reliable carburetor in the trunk for when the fuel injection goes up in smoke.

Or, the best answer, buy a new car that comes with electronic ignition, fuel injection, air conditioning, and all the modern computerized features.

Seriously, may I suggest you buy a repair manual for your car, and learn to use it? The stock ignition and carburetor are reliable if maintained properly. Trying to improve the performance beyond stock spec is futile on a car like that. It was probably about 90HP stock. With much work and expense you might boost it 50%, to 135, about what the slowest economy car has today.

Much better to restore the engine to stock specs. It will fool you, in spite of having only 90HP, the relatively large displacement and long stroke engine has plenty of power even at low revs, for all normal driving. If the engine is in top shape you will be surprised how much power it has, and that long stroke high torque motor makes driving so easy, hardly any shifting required. You can idle down to 10mph (15 km hr) in high gear and accelerate to 80MPH (130 Km hr) or so in top gear. And take any normal, main road hill in high gear.

The best performance improvement you can make, would be to check the compression ratio, oil pressure, and oil consumption. If the engine is worn, rebuild to stock specs. If it is in good condition, do a tuneup and make sure it is working perfectly. As I said, you will be surprised at the easy performance, easy starting and smooth running if everything is right.

Think of it as being like a diesel car in performance BUT much quieter, smoother, and easier to start.

Hi Rusty,

I appreciate your feedback!! but let me explain a bit more where i am coming from.

In the Netherlands 1 liter of petrol is 2,5 US dollar. With this in mind it is worth to investigate opportunities especially if you going to use the car very often.

I have bought it as a good runner and purchased also a spare engine some while ago.

This engine I would like to use for some tuning activities. Main reasons are saving some petrol, but also gain a bit more power without major engine tuning works. I need this power to get the car smoothly running at 120 km/s an hour for a long period on the road.

Besides these factors I am convinced that with the bad quality of fuel at his moment (we have a mix of ethanol-petrol overhere) the carburetor setting and engine performance is not as good as in the past. The equipment is now 70 years old and an upgrade to modern specs can be an option.

So I am investigating changing to electronic ignition and fuel injectors in the manifold to achieve my goal. There is a Dutch tuner done modifications like this and gained very positive results with other old side valve engines.

I have to believe him…. Because I cannot find anybody doing this in my network of traditional/conservative classic car owners.

The link to the tuner is www.bs-autotune.nl it is in dutch but with google translate its easy to read.

I have also some thoughts about LPG. But they say running a side valve engine on LPG declines the horsepower’s with great amount. I am not sure about this. But it is the only info I have. If you know experiences with sidevalve engines running great on LPG please let me know.

But I have taken in account your feedback. I keep this in mind. The car is running fine at this moment. And swapping the engine for some modern piece is also an option…. But I like the classic engine..

Looking forward to reply’s

The car is a 1941 Pontiac with a 4 liter, six cylinder engine. This puts it in the luxury car class with Mercedes, Jaguar, etc. as far as size, room, comfort, weight, and engine size.

What mileage would you expect from such a car, an older model? I would expect around 20 MPG or 11.76 liters per 100 KM, and that is about what you will get if you don't drive too fast.

Will you ever get 40MPG or 6 liters per 100KM? No, never, not in that class of car. If you really want cheap gas mileage buy something smaller.

What I am getting at here, is that the myth of American cars getting poor mileage, is because of their size. European cars of the same size, power, age, and technical level get the same mileage or worse.

Is it possible to get better mileage from your Pontiac? YES and here is how.

Make sure the engine is in perfect condition, not worn out, and tuned up. This will give you the best mileage, and power, for the money invested.

You say there is an expert in Holland who can convert your car to fuel injection and electronic ignition. So why are you asking us? Why don't you ask him?

LPG is not a good idea, it works best on a high compression engine which yours definitely is not. LPG has an octane rating of 110 and requires a compression ratio of 10:1 or more for best efficiency. Your car is about 6:1.

One thing you might do, is mill the head .060" for higher compression, if it has not been milled before. This will make better use of today's high octane gas. Your car was made to run on 70 octane or less. It will run best on the lowest octane regular.

If you plan on long trips at 120Km Hr, buy a newer car. Your car was built when highway speeds were 100Km Hr or less. To drive it that fast, for long periods, is asking it to do something it was never made for.

Old cars have been modified for such use, but why ruin a nice old car when there are millions of newer cars that will do the job with no modification?

If you want an "oldtimer" that gets decent mileage and is capable of 120KmHr touring, I suggest you look at tailfinned Mercedes of the fifties, with the 2.2 or 3 liter six cylinder, or Jaguar of the fifties or sixties, and similar cars. Suggest you stay away from American cars, you will always feel you are spending too much on gas, even when they get the same mileage as European cars of similar size and power.

Why in the name of Christ would anyone buy a car like that and then start worrying about gas mileage? Did you not know what you were buying? Did you somehow think it would get the same mileage as a VW beetle? What were you thinking when you bought it?

You keep a car like that for driving around country roads in the summer, going on picnics, old car events and so on. You drive it only in nice weather, and you drive it about 3000 to 5000 Km a year at the most.

That means in a year you will buy about 400 liters of fuel, which is an expense. But it only hurts for a little while, at the gas station.

If you could save 100 liters a year by spending 5000 Euros would it be worth it? Of course not.

It is better to be philosophical, and accept the extra 250 Euros per year expense, as the cost of driving an oldtimer.

Please remember, you are probably saving that amount on taxes, insurance, and depreciation compared to a new car. Gasoline is only one of the expenses of owning a car, and not necessarily the largest.

There are some things you can do, like tune up the engine, pump up the tires, drive slowly etc. to stretch out the mileage. But beyond that, the cost can be more than you will save.

Believe me, we have all been through this. In the end the best thing to do is pay for the fuel, if you can afford it, and not worry about it.

If it really bothers you, or you can't afford it, sell the car and get something cheaper.

"Performance" is a relative term. Today it means the ability to accelerate to 100 kph as quickly as possible. For American cars, even into the early 1950's, performance meant the ability to drive at low speeds in high gear. I had a 1948 Studebaker with a 3.8 litre 6 which would accelerate smoothly from 15 kph in top gear.

Terry

"Performance" is a relative term. Today it means the ability to accelerate to 100 kph as quickly as possible. For American cars, even into the early 1950's, performance meant the ability to drive at low speeds in high gear. I had a 1948 Studebaker with a 3.8 litre 6 which would accelerate smoothly from 15 kph in top gear.

Terry

And, I will bet your engine is rated at less than 100 HP. And yet, it easily keeps up with traffic and has good performance without a lot of gear shifting.

That was my point, about the older cars being better performers on the road, and easier to drive. Developed horsepower is only part of the equation. The old low horsepower, long stroke, high torque flathead six cylinder cars, give better performance and better mileage than most people would think. IF they are in good condition, and driven sympathetically.

This was not an American thing. Before automatic transmission, the ability to slow down to a walking pace in high gear, and pull away smoothly without knocking or bucking, was the hallmark of a quality car.

Such British makers as Invicta, Rolls Royce, Austin and Sunbeam used to advertize the high gear performance, smoothness and silence of their top models.

I have driven Mercedes and Austin six cylinder sedans of the fifties and sixties. They too would slow down to 20Km Hr or less and pull away smoothly in high gear. Even though they had 4 speed transmissions, in those days buyers of expensive cars expected nothing less.

On the other hand, with cheap cars like a VW beetle, you were expected to shift gears all the time, and take the trouble to get in the right gear for the engine. They were low powered cars, and this was expected. In an expensive, powerful car this would not have been acceptable.

Hi all,

I am just new on this forum. Short intro about me:

Rockabilly music, vintage British Bikes, hotrods, 2 kids and married. Living currently in Saudi Arabia but from origin Dutch

What brings me here?

I have a 1941 Pontiac Torpedo Streamliner de Luxe 239 ci six pots in line and i like to spice it up!.

Therefore i am looking for electronic ignition set to replace to old Delco Remy. Please advice me because i cannot find anything on the web.

Also investigating converting to fuel injection instead of the classic carb setting.

i am looking for usable knowledge from you guys to help me out. Everything is welcome.

Hope to hear from you guys!!!

I would have to say you would not get much sympathy for hopping up a nice old flathead Pontiac six or eight because AACA and most of it's members on this forum cater to stock vehicles. Trying to do what you want to do reminds me of someone trying to push a round peg into a square hole. What you want and to make it work will take a lot of work and if you want to raise compression to take advantage of fuel you have you need to remember that the flathead design has a real flame travel and detonation problem after 8:1 compression....that's why everyone changed to OHV operation in the first place. Anyroad, by doing all this modification you must remember that you would have taken a nice old Pontiac car that was designed to do a certain job and turned it into just another old Hot Rod.

If you still want to do this you would be better off doing to a site like the HAMB where tearing up or modifying a perfectly good car is the order of the day. See the link;

[h=3]The H.A.M.B. - The Jalopy Journal[/h]

And, I will bet your engine is rated at less than 100 HP. And yet, it easily keeps up with traffic and has good performance without a lot of gear shifting.

It had 94 horsepower. From 15 kph to 165 kph in high gear and overdrive. Yes, I really did have it up to that speed!! About 105 mph on I5 in Washington state.

Terry

Quick Shifter, you should listen to these guys. I know they sound a lot like the old man harping on you, but they are right.

If you want a factory hot rod, get a Hudson !!!

Driving an old crock like that with marginal suspension at 105mph borders on insanity!

Driving an old crock like that with marginal suspension at 105mph borders on insanity!

Marginal suspension? Probably the smoothest riding car I've ever owned. I had total confidence in it, otherwise I wouldn't have been doing that speed.

Terry

Thank you all guys.

I am very happy with all the response!

I am aware of the good qualities the car is having right now being stock, not updated-tuned and so on! It drives well as it is right now!!

It has never been my aim to make it a Hotrod, and blast off by every traffic light, I take another car for that. But i am looking for tips and tricks to make it more reliable, driving a bit better etc.

I have a spare engine with it and want to use this for experiments. I want tips and tricks from the experts.

In the British and HD bike scene there are so many new products available on the market to make the bikes better and more reliable without losing the old looks. For the car i am looking for the same. New products entering the market regularly, replacing the old.

If I have to look for maintenance parts I check the original workshop manual. Maybe replacing something **** for the same **** because i am not aware of the better replacement (non OEM or even OEM) parts.

There must be something!........ like replace the carb by a SU model xxx or put an other airfilter model xxx on it. It increases the performance etc.

I am here at this forum because none of my friends or call it network is having a Pontiac. They all have other cars and other experiences. Not suitable for my car.

But till so far I am happy with all the reply’s Keep on posting and come up with suggestions.

Smooth isn't necessarily safe. I'm thinking tired metal, shock absorber condition, stabilizer bar, springing, brakes, tires etc,.

Another thing, if it is stock and went 105 mph, either you need a new speedometer or it was going off a cliff. 94 hp wont push that barn door through the air that fast

Smooth isn't necessarily safe. I'm thinking tired metal, shock absorber condition, stabilizer bar, springing, brakes, tires etc,.

Another thing, if it is stock and went 105 mph, either you need a new speedometer or it was going off a cliff. 94 hp wont push that barn door through the air that fast

Those are good points. It was an indicated 105 and most analog speedometers aren't 100% accurate. Regardless of what the speedometer said, 94 horsepower got me there - slowly. Without the overdrive it wouldn't have happened. The late 40's Studebaker Land Cruisers are awesome highway cars even though they do only have a flathead 6 under the hood. Auto designers of the day probably didn't give aerodynamics much consideration, but in my view it is one of the smoother shapes available then.

Terry

Terry

Thank you all guys.

I am very happy with all the response!

I am aware of the good qualities the car is having right now being stock, not updated-tuned and so on! It drives well as it is right now!!

It has never been my aim to make it a Hotrod, and blast off by every traffic light, I take another car for that. But i am looking for tips and tricks to make it more reliable, driving a bit better etc.

I have a spare engine with it and want to use this for experiments. I want tips and tricks from the experts.

In the British and HD bike scene there are so many new products available on the market to make the bikes better and more reliable without losing the old looks. For the car i am looking for the same. New products entering the market regularly, replacing the old.

If I have to look for maintenance parts I check the original workshop manual. Maybe replacing something **** for the same **** because i am not aware of the better replacement (non OEM or even OEM) parts.

There must be something!........ like replace the carb by a SU model xxx or put an other airfilter model xxx on it. It increases the performance etc.

I am here at this forum because none of my friends or call it network is having a Pontiac. They all have other cars and other experiences. Not suitable for my car.

But till so far I am happy with all the reply’s Keep on posting and come up with suggestions.

The car already is reliable and smooth. Look, there is no magic bullet here that's going to turn your 63 year old chunk of iron into a modern acting machine. It is what it is and anything you change to "improve" one aspect of the car will cause some negative result in another aspect of it. If you just wish to pour money into it for experimentation that's fine but at the end of the day you will have a boogered up 63 year old chunk of iron that doesn't do anything much better than it does now and possibly worse.....................Bob

If you are used to old British bikes, old Harleys and old European cars no wonder you don't think a 1941 car can be any good.

In this case, you can relax. If any British bike or Harley had a carburetor or ignition system as good as a 1941 Pontiac, no one would ever change them. I say this as the former owner of dozens of BSA, Harley, Triumph, Vincent, Indian, Norton and other motorcyles and the current owner of a 1968 Triumph 650.

There may be better carbs and ignition than what you have, but the difference in performance is so small that any change would be more trouble and expense than it is worth. Plus it would reduce the value of the car every time you make changes.

I could explain why if you like, but will start by saying you would have to change the whole car over to 12volts before you even began. Which would be a major undertaking in itself, and a complete waste of time and money.

Try this;

54 Pontiac Flat Head 6 performance build | The H.A.M.B. - The ...

www.jalopyjournal.com › ... › The Hokey Ass Message Board

Getting the most from 239 inline 6 - Inliners International ...

www.inliners.org/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat...759...

An electronic ign. conversion should not be too hard or expensive. You will not see any real difference however. For the demands of a Pontiac side valve 6 the point's ign. is fine. The reason electronic conversions are popular on motorcycles is that most of them have Magneto ign. from the factory. The Mag's work great if in top condition, but are always harder to kick start than point ign. or especially a electronic conversion . And to rebuild a older mag . is a very expensive proposition. The point's and conversion's are cheaper, easy to start, and only a small number of owners are actually racing the vintage bikes {the only situation where a mag is better}.

EFI would be interesting from a technical point of view but would never make sense from a cost saving point of view.

Greg in Canada

You are overlooking the fact that his car has a 6 volt electrical system. If you want modern ignition and fuel injection you have to start by converting the whole car to 12 volts before you even begin.

Yes it CAN be done, and if you gave me unlimited time and money I could do it but I will tell you up front, for all the improvement you would get, you would be wasting your money.

If you really want a car that has 12 volt system, electronic ignition, and fuel injection buy a newer car and save yourself a lot of expense and hassles.

Quick shifter - it is your vehicle and how you proceed is entirely up to you. Having said that, MANY good points have been raised in this thread.

(1) LPG - your compression ratio is just plain wrong to have any success with LPG.

(2) Carburetor - the original Carter WA-1 used on your vehicle is one of the finest single barrel carburetors built at any time at any price anywhere in the world!!! As Carter used metering rod technology, the carburetor is infinately tuneable. Learn how it works, and how to tune it. Packard used the same model that was calibrated for the Packard engine. I doubt seriously if you can get 10 percent increase in fuel economy with the vehicle by changing to ANY other system either efi or carburetor over the original in good condition. We use this model carburetor to improve mileage, power, and reliability on vehicles with lessor carburetors!

(3) Distributor - the pxxxxxxxx was mentioned. Some love them (at least until they fail). At my age, too old to ride in a car with one unless we are being followed by a tow truck! If you are young and love electronics, and just cannot live without one; by all means UPGRADE to an alternator when you downgrade with the pxxxxxxxx!

Can you improve performance/fuel economy? Probably. Here is a link to our website with some suggestions:

http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Troubleshooting.htm#Fueleconomy

You have a great older car. Hope you enjoy it.

Jon.