Car won't idle...

1930 Model A Ford. Was sitting about 3 weeks, and I started it yesterday, maybe didn't let it warm up enough, and went to put it in gear, and it stalled. Could not get it started again. Cleaned out fuel bowl (white sludge in bottom), and it started and idled for 10 min, and then staled (I did not attempt to drive it). Now, it cycles a few times and then stalls. I start by advancing the spark, then retarding, a few sputters, then nothing. Pulled carburetor and removed same sludge, and still won't start.

What do you think the problem is?

Okay, now I am going to vent a little here. I am starting to get really frustrated, and just want to maybe get out of this hobby, as nothing ever seems to run. It would be nice if a neighbor a few homes down has a Model A, and someone else has maybe another classic car, and then there is help. But, I am in my mid-40's, and interested in earlier cars, and there seems to be no support, no big group of like-minded individuals around. If I CAN find help, it is a garage that knows this sort of stuff to the tune of about $100 an hour.

No wonder why the interest in early cars is dying. If there is no one else interested in these early cars in 25 or 50 years, it is the lack of support to younger generations now.

I have the same problem as I have nobody near me with like interests and/or the knowledge to help. I always figure it out myself or I resort to this site and a couple of others. You may want to look in your local newspaper and see if there are any clubs near you who have older cars. Look in the "antiques and classics" section of the paper. What area of the country are you located? Maybe someone here knows of a collector/restorer near you who will help. If I were near you, I would be right over to help.

I am in Eastern Pennsylvania. I live three miles from the Das Aught Fest this weekend and, despite this, I feel remote and STRANDED. A few old timers like to talk about their early stuff, at the show, but that is about it. I think what I meant to say is that when it comes time to sell this early stuff in a generation or so, and there are no buyers, the sellers have no one to blame but themselves. It is SAD that this hobby is dying, and yet there is no one to encourage interest... No surprise here.

Wow you guys almost got me down... I love driving my old cars, feels like a time machine to a different era. My favorite part is figuring out the problems, and making friends with the local old car guys.

First problem; is your idle circuit is most likely plugged with sediment. Pull the carb, pull the bowl, put on safety glasses, and use carb cleaner to spray out every hole you can find. I am sure a "A" guy will post a diagram showing exactly what hole to spray. Try to find non oxygenated gas (used for lawnmowers and anything else off road (no alcohol) to run in the A, it will stay stable much longer and will not evaporate in your carb as fast, better yet shut off your fuel line (under the dash in a A?) and run it dry, this will stop the carb from getting full of residue during storage.

Second problem; I hang out where the old guys do, you will be surprised who is an old car guy, car shows and antique stuff always works for me, listen first, then ask questions. Once you start talking to them they will let you know who their younger friends are. There are more of us than you would think.

Once you are able to solve the little problems, your confidence will rise and soon people will be asking you questions.

Good luck, and keep asking questions, lots of good help just hard to find sometimes.

I always shut off by closing the gas valve and letting run until gas is gone, so there was not gas in the fuel line for any long period of time. Don't know why this is happening now???

I always shut off by closing the gas valve and letting run until gas is gone, so there was not gas in the fuel line for any long period of time. Don't know why this is happening now???

You may have answered your own question. Closing the gas petcock and running the engine till it quits is not the thing to do with modern gasoline. Do you have gas stabilizer in it? Running the carb dry without stabilizer in it leaves a white deposit in it when the remaining gas evaporates, which it does very quickly. This deposit will plug any ports/jets in the carb. Ask me how I know! :mad: After a very expensive carb overhaul, I was advised to use stabilizer, keep the carb full at all times and run it regularly year round to keep fresh(er) gas in the carb. Pain in the butt right? You gotta do what you gotta do.

Terry

Well, for one thing a piece of dirt or rust may have gotten in to the carb. All cars will need maintenance from time to time even new cars and a Model A is much easier to work on then a new car. For help click on AACA Home and then Region & Chapters. Then call the Region or Chapter closest to you. Also contact the closest club or chapter of both these Model A clubs.

http://modelarestorers.org/newsmanagernet/articlefiles/282-New%20Region%20List%20%204-20-13.pdf

http://www.mafca.com/chapters/PA.html

If I could, I'd join "keiser" and try to help. The next best alternative is this forum. Now, I've never owned a pre-war vehicle but if I were stuck in your predicament, I would be assuming that my car got sick on the poison gas that been forced upon us. I may be wrong, but I believe that in rural communities it is possible to purchase non- ethanol gasoline if you purchase it using a gas can and not pumping it directly into an automobile. As for the non-running problem at hand, I might try a product called "Start Your Engine" as a medicine to possibly clean out your fuel system. It's only available in the Small Engine department of big box stores and auto parts houses. Follow the directions closely and try it at your own risk. I' ll probably draw a lot of flack for this idea, but if someone has a QUICKER and EASIER fix, let's see it!

You can't find a collectable car with a greater support group than the Model A Ford. The two national clubs, MAFCA and MARC have chapters throughout the country and in many foreign countries as well. Join one or both, even if there is not a local chapter in your area. Technical experts abound in both clubs, and are waiting to answer your questions. On line, "Fordbarn.com" also has an open forum where technical questions usually receive answers quickly from other enthusiasts who have overcome the same challenges. .

Now, to your problem; Model a fuel problems are often rooted in the tank. After over 3/4 of a century things can get pretty bad in there. First step after cleaning the carburetor would be to put on a good in-line filter so that trouble can be headed off before it reaches the carburetor. Modern filters are much better than the ones that came on Model A's. It can also enable you to assess the condition of the inner tank by opening it up to see what it caught. If lucky, the tank may eventually flush fairly clean. It may just need a change of filter from time to time. Worst case scenario; the tank must be removed and professionally cleaned and sealed. .Don't give up, this is a common problem and you have lots of company!

For a worst case fuel tank scenario, look at my thread "Can't Tell a Book by its Cover". Hopefully, your fuel tank will be a lot better than that. Due to the modern "gasohol" fuels, gasoline now has properties that promote corrosion and other bad "things". Not to mention that it is inefficient.

Don't give up the ship (or the Model A),

Grog

Like a lot of things, running the carb dry is very controversial. I have seen people forget to turn the key off. If the points are open the coil keeps charging the condenser.Itl overheats and can explode and cause a fire. I used to run a Tillotson but the float always seems to stick and gasoline pours out the back. I changed to a zenith and it ran fine until one day I noticed gas pouring out so I closed the valve and rapped on the carb. That loosened the float. It happened again and I realized it's whenever I forget to open the valve when starting. You know, the car runs about 10 seconds and dies when the fuel runs out. It must dry out the float valve.

That Macungie show is a must attend for you. It is the Ontelaunee region that puts the show on and there's a large contingebt of the Lehigh region of Marc or Mafca. I'm sure those guys will be more than glad to help you. I have a space, L234, and although my knowledge is limited it's available.

If you really want to feel "Out there alone" Buy an early Mopar product like my 49 New Yorker, I was the only one at the LA Roadster show, which is a Hugh show out west here. And parts, what parts there are very few available and the ones that are are expensive. You are much better off with that Ford.

If it was not for the guys on these forums and Hemmings mag this thing would have been sold or crushed already. It is rewarding I have to admit when a lesson is learned on how things use to be done and when a problem is cured. Not complaining just a little envious:p

Just a second mention for Fordbarn here - there is an absolute wealth of information in it's searchable forum and I don't think that I have ever seen a question unanswered. Many times a plea for help results in a visit from one of the regulars to help as long as you have shown effort to repair on your part. PEnnsylvania is the heart of Model "A" country on the East Coast.

Okay, so I pulled the carburetor and sprayed Carb Cleaner in it. I am charging the battery now as the charge was low, but, again, it starts, runs 10 seconds, and stalls. Now what?

Have you checked the spark RIGHT after it shuts off?

The symptoms you describe could also be a bad condenser or coil.

With the hideous placement of the condenser on Model A's it could be shot well before it's time.

Have you checked the spark RIGHT after it shuts off?

The symptoms you describe could also be a bad condenser or coil.

With the hideous placement of the condenser on Model A's it could be shot well before it's time.

What do I do to fix that?

You can't fix anything until you know what needs fixing........I'm not being smart about it......LOL

It could be a gas problem but even with a gas problem it would do SOMETHING even it ran like crap.

The easiest way is pull the lead that comes from the coil from the distributor to see what kind of spark you have immediately after the engine quits.

If the spark is anything other than white or blue you probably found your problem.

Good spark should jump a 3/8" air gap.

I feel certain that you can find experienced Model A Owners that are members of AACA, MARC, or MAFCA near you who would be happy to help you learn more about maintaining your Model A. Joining a local club is the best way to learn about cars that are older than you. I was helped by many "old timers" in my local AACA Chapter when I was in my 30's and owned a Model A Ford that was much older than I was.

While there are both fuel related and ignition related possibilities that could cause your problem, I am going to guess that you have a fuel supply problem. I think your fuel tank and/or line is nearly stopped up. Over time, enough fuel seeps through to give you about 10 seconds of running but not enough for the car to idle for longer than that.

To test my theory, I would suggest you try the following:

With the gas valve in the off position at the tank, unscrew the gas supply line from the carburetor, you should need to slightly loosen the other end of that gas supply line, swivel the gas supply line away from the engine. (Be careful not to scratch a fender... you want the gas supply line pointed down, and it will probably end up over the fender.) Tighten the still attached end of the line. Put a gas can or some other empty container under the open end of the fuel supply line. Watch the open end of the gas line and have someone turn the gas valve on. See if you have a good strong free flow of fuel from the gas tank. I suspect you will have almost no flow of fuel there.

Please try this and report back your findings.

If this is the problem, I can offer a solution on how you can possibly fix it without having to have the tank removed and professionally cleaned. Removing a gas tank on a Model A is more trouble than on many cars, so there are a few methods that can be tried to keep from having to remove the tank.

Quick fix for plugged idle jet: GENTLY and CAREFULLY screw the idle adjustment in all the way. Count the number of turns, down to the 1/4 turn. I find it easiest to turn the screwdriver 1/2 turn at at a time counting 1/2....1.....1 1/2....2 until it bottoms.

Remove the idle screw completely. Blow compressed air into the hole. If you have an air compressor use 2 or 3 short puffs.

Now put the idle screw back in, and back it off to the same place it was before.

I have done this many times on VW beetles, which are patsies for this since their idle jets are so small. But it works on other carbs too.

I feel certain that you can find experienced Model A Owners that are members of AACA, MARC, or MAFCA near you who would be happy to help you learn more about maintaining your Model A. Joining a local club is the best way to learn about cars that are older than you. I was helped by many "old timers" in my local AACA Chapter when I was in my 30's and owned a Model A Ford that was much older than I was.

While there are both fuel related and ignition related possibilities that could cause your problem, I am going to guess that you have a fuel supply problem. I think your fuel tank and/or line is nearly stopped up. Over time, enough fuel seeps through to give you about 10 seconds of running but not enough for the car to idle for longer than that.

To test my theory, I would suggest you try the following:

With the gas valve in the off position at the tank, unscrew the gas supply line from the carburetor, you should need to slightly loosen the other end of that gas supply line, swivel the gas supply line away from the engine. (Be careful not to scratch a fender... you want the gas supply line pointed down, and it will probably end up over the fender.) Tighten the still attached end of the line. Put a gas can or some other empty container under the open end of the fuel supply line. Watch the open end of the gas line and have someone turn the gas valve on. See if you have a good strong free flow of fuel from the gas tank. I suspect you will have almost no flow of fuel there.

Please try this and report back your findings.

If this is the problem, I can offer a solution on how you can possibly fix it without having to have the tank removed and professionally cleaned. Removing a gas tank on a Model A is more trouble than on many cars, so there are a few methods that can be tried to keep from having to remove the tank.

No, that's not it. I pulled the carburetor yesterday and forgot to turn off the gas when I did it...and gas came pouring out.

Quick fix for plugged idle jet: GENTLY and CAREFULLY screw the idle adjustment in all the way. Count the number of turns, down to the 1/4 turn. I find it easiest to turn the screwdriver 1/2 turn at at a time counting 1/2....1.....1 1/2....2 until it bottoms.

Remove the idle screw completely. Blow compressed air into the hole. If you have an air compressor use 2 or 3 short puffs.

Now put the idle screw back in, and back it off to the same place it was before.

I have done this many times on VW beetles, which are patsies for this since their idle jets are so small. But it works on other carbs too.

I don't have an air compressor. I know, I should have one, but the wife complains about the car itself being in the garage and it makes the option of having lots of other toys in there difficult. Any ideas?

I did mess around with the screw already, but I think it is where it always was before. This was what I thought might be the problem reading the Jim Schild book.

Okay, I tried again today, and first time, it runs 5 - 10 seconds and quits. Then it wants to run, but sputters a second or so and dies. I will try to figure out how to get air in the screw hole without a compressor and see if that works.

BTW, I, on a microcosm level, am a good example of why this country is falling apart. I was born in 1970, struggle with fixing things like this, and waste my day with a job in front of a stupid computer half of the day. We need people who can fix things and make things run, not folks with useless skills who waste time answering dumb and pointless e-mails from upper management. Don't produce anything in this country anymore, folks who cannot fix things...and waste their formative years in useless liberal arts courses when they should be avoiding college (and debt) completely and learning a skill. My 2 cents worth.

If anyone with Model A skills lives nearby, I would love to learn from you. I live in Macungie, PA, not far from Route 100. I saw one recently (running!!) on Spring Creek Road, I think it was a 1930, blue in colour...if you read this, where are you?

What carb are you running, Zenith cast iron, Tillotson diecast?

Howard Dennis

The carburetor is still suspect #1. I am less suspicious of the ignition system because it is not too likely it would enable starting and then quit after only 10 seconds.

Just spraying with carburetor cleaner probably wasn't enough to solve your problem. Powder-like rust deposits become lodged in the carburetor's jets and passages and require high pressure to dislodge them, Remove the jets and clean them, don't use wire or paper clips because they are brass and the calibration can be upset if the hole is scratched or enlarged. Soak them and the carb's body parts and blow out with high pressure.

Worst case, sometime that still isn't enough and the passage plugs need to be removed to clear the obstructions. For lots of helpful step-by-step information with illustrations just google "cleaning model A Ford carburetor".

[ATTACH=CONFIG]263758[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]263759[/ATTACH]What carb are you running, Zenith cast iron, Tillotson diecast?

Howard Dennis

Zenith. I also have the 1917 Maxwell, we have spoken before. How are things these days?

The carburetor is still suspect #1. I am less suspicious of the ignition system because it is not too likely it would enable starting and then quit after only 10 seconds.

Just spraying with carburetor cleaner probably wasn't enough to solve your problem. Powder-like rust deposits become lodged in the carburetor's jets and passages and require high pressure to dislodge them, Remove the jets and clean them, don't use wire or paper clips because they are brass and the calibration can be upset if the hole is scratched or enlarged. Soak them and the carb's body parts and blow out with high pressure.

Worst case, sometime that still isn't enough and the passage plugs need to be removed to clear the obstructions. For lots of helpful step-by-step information with illustrations just google "cleaning model A Ford carburetor".

I am coming to this conclusion myself. Rust deposits (minor) and mostly white powder (lead?) were in the fuel bowl, so this what I am suspecting.

I don't have an air compressor. I know, I should have one, but the wife complains about the car itself being in the garage and it makes the option of having lots of other toys in there difficult. Any ideas?

I did mess around with the screw already, but I think it is where it always was before. This was what I thought might be the problem reading the Jim Schild book.

You can buy a can of compressed air at the dollar store for $2 or $3. If they don't have it Staples will, it is a standard computer cleaning item.

Or use a can of spray carb cleaner, WD40,or penetrating oil. Most of the time you can blow the passage free without taking the carb apart, if it is a car that sees regular use. At least it is worth a try.

Diagnosis over the internet is difficult because of the difficulty in communicating the exact observed conditions experienced while attempting to operate or work on a car. The best thing you can join a local AACA, MARC, or MAFCA club and find an experienced local Model A owner who can help teach you how to work on your car. The next best thing would be to buy a copy of Les Andrew's Model A Ford Mechanic's Handbook. It has great troublshooting flow charts and great instructions for fixing Model A Ford problems.

Other than that, I would suggest you check out this link:

http://www.model-a.org/clean_minor_dirt.html

Okay, now I am going to vent a little here. I am starting to get really frustrated, and just want to maybe get out of this hobby, as nothing ever seems to run. It would be nice if a neighbor a few homes down has a Model A, and someone else has maybe another classic car, and then there is help. But, I am in my mid-40's, and interested in earlier cars, and there seems to be no support, no big group of like-minded individuals around.

No wonder why the interest in early cars is dying. If there is no one else interested in these early cars in 25 or 50 years, it is the lack of support to younger generations now.

You are eons ahead of a LOT of other people your age because you have the gonads to dig in and do it yourself.

WHEN you figure out what's wrong maybe you'll be able to help someone else some day.......

Most of what I know I learned the hard way because I wasn't afraid to tackle things........and I have a '29 Tudor A so I KNOW what you are up against.......BEEN there and DONE that.

Another thought is is the float allowing ENOUGH gas into the bowl?

(Don't ask me why I ask........ :mad:)

You are eons ahead of a LOT of other people your age because you have the gonads to dig in and do it yourself.

WHEN you figure out what's wrong maybe you'll be able to help someone else some day.......

Most of what I know I learned the hard way because I wasn't afraid to tackle things........and I have a '29 Tudor A so I KNOW what you are up against.......BEEN there and DONE that.

Another thought is is the float allowing ENOUGH gas into the bowl?

(Don't ask me why I ask........ :mad:)

I believe that the float is allowing enough gas into the bowl because, when I have pulled the carburetor, there always is a substantial amount of gas in the bowl. I would think it would be enough gas in there, as much more would flood it.

Yeah, a bad day when I voiced my frustrations. Sometimes best to stay off the computer when I get frustrated!

Despite my feeling dumb when it comes to this (and I am relative to you 'old timers' ), I am probably at least moderately ahead of many of those in my generation, I think, as most of 'us' are perfectly happy sitting in front of a computer all day long, and loathe the idea of any grease or oil under the fingernails!

I am disappointed in myself, I guess, because my grandfather (who came from the GREATEST generation, a WWII veteran), could fix ANYTHING! I remember my uncle had a player piano once, that did not work, and he sent it off somewhere to get it fixed, and they couldn't fix it! My grandfather got it working, even MADE his own tools that were specific to fixing this player piano. I could have learned so much from him, and he has only been gone a little over two years, nearly making it to 95 years old. Trouble is, I never could find a job reasonably close to where I grew up (yes, the Connecticut economy has been in the gutter for some time!), so trips to Connecticut were more social visits instead of anything where I could spend lots of time learning all he knew. He didn't need Valvoline to change his oil (of course I change mine too!), or the internet to dig himself out of a hole.

I wish I could instill the same mentality in my wife. Her mentality is buy new and get someone else to fix it (AND, live in a subdivision (Ugh!), so I don't have the space I need (and complain that the garage smells like old car all the time).

I think I will get an air compressor, despite it taking up 'space' in the garage. I pitched four fibreglass columns on Friday, which were taking up space in the garage, and the compressor will take up much less space. Any ideas on which ones are best and how much to spend?

Your grandfather learned the same way you are. frustration and all. I'm sure he is proud that you are trying. Old cars with carburetors can be finnicky, just like one bad wire connection can mess up a new car, some dirt in a carb can mess it up. I recommend starting out with a good carb rebuild/cleaning, get a rebuild kit and clean all the passages etc. Read about the carb you have, learn how it works, and make sure all the passages are clear. You can use the spray carb cleaner, and don't immediately need the compressor, although it will be usefull. You may also consider a spare carb, if only just to practice rebuilding, it never hurts to have one.

Once it is running well, take the wife for a ride, maybe get some ice cream,(mine likes to get a tea from Mc Donalds). The comments you recieve will make it all worth the effort.

Okay, I soaked the carburetor all day today in gunk remover, sprayed carburetor cleaner all over, reassembled everything, and...still, the same thing! (Okay, I did not try using the air compressor as I do not have one -- trying to find one at auction, which, of course, is easy to find at a good price, unless you actually need one). What happens, now and before, is when you start it the first time, you press on the starter, pull the choke out one, pull the spark lever down, and it roars to life, only to peter out in about 10 sec or less. Subsequent starts yield a weaker start and dying out in only a few seconds. Any ideas what to do, other than simply waiting until I have an air compressor? Or, any ideas as to exactly what is going on? Fuel flow seems to be adequate as, once when I removed the carburetor and forgot to shut off the gas, the gas did pour out.

Quick fix for plugged idle jet: GENTLY and CAREFULLY screw the idle adjustment in all the way. Count the number of turns, down to the 1/4 turn. I find it easiest to turn the screwdriver 1/2 turn at at a time counting 1/2....1.....1 1/2....2 until it bottoms.

Remove the idle screw completely. Blow compressed air into the hole. If you have an air compressor use 2 or 3 short puffs.

Now put the idle screw back in, and back it off to the same place it was before.

I have done this many times on VW beetles, which are patsies for this since their idle jets are so small. But it works on other carbs too.

Don't fret about not having an air compressor. I've used Rusty's trick successfully many times, but instead of using compressed air, I would remove the carb adjusting screws, and insert the plastic straw at the end of the nozzle of an aerosol can of carb cleaner. If the idle circuit was the cause of the problem, this technique almost always cured it.

Don't fret about not having an air compressor. I've used Rusty's trick successfully many times, but instead of using compressed air, I would remove the carb adjusting screws, and insert the plastic straw at the end of the nozzle of an aerosol can of carb cleaner. If the idle circuit was the cause of the problem, this technique almost always cured it.

I just tried that and it didn't work.

Does anyone else out there think this hobby really sucks? I mean, I cannot get this car to run, and my Maxwell, no matter what I do, remains out of commission because the fan belts stretch, causing the fan blade to hit the radiator intake, stress, and throw a blade into the radiator (been there, done that). i actually got the Model A as an alternative I could run a lot more, and still, no such luck!

You are way smarter than me. It took me 50 years to figure out this hobby sucks and there is no future in it. You still have time to get out, sell those death trap money pits, and take up a more interesting hobby, like girls.

For me, I use the air compressor more than any other one tool I own. That includes a screw driver or a hammer. It is the unsung hero in the back room.

I think the poor cars need a NEW owner!! You are either getting too much gas or too little!! Find the problem and FIX.

Or, we are getting our leg pulled. Again.

Ben

............ and take up a more interesting hobby, like girls.

Girls??? Antique automobiles are a lot cheaper to "operate"!

*

*

Not as much "backfiring" either!

mrcvs,

I would have bet with Matthew and Dave that the fuel tank was blocked with sediment, but if gas pours out at the carb , that is OK. It is still a gas problem. You can be sure by spraying starter fluid into the air intake. If you can keep it running on starter fluid, you have narrowed it down to the carb. It could be as simple as some dirt stuck in the needle valve seat.

I am not an expert, but I have successfully rebuilt the carb on my '26 Model T that was suffering from the same aliment. I only live about 8 miles north of you in Lynneville.

I am overwhelmed this weekend, but order a carb rebuild kit and we will get together in the next couple of weeks.

PM me.

P.S. I just read were you said it runs about 10 secs the first time and less and less each time. That's the important clue in all this!