Exciting!!! Progress being made!!!!!

alright guys, if any of you have been following my previous threads Ive been working on my 1939 Dodge D11 almost every night after work and a lot of hours on the weekends. Anyway, originally had a no start fuel related issue, traced it down to the fuel pump. Well, got a fuel pump, car now runs, but very roughly. So my goal today is to get new plugs and wires on it and see if that helps any, if not ill go to distributor side of things - cap, rotor, condenser, points set. If that doesn't fix it then ill be left scratching my head as it'll end up being a non ignition problem. Could be bad fuel? (drained as much of tank as we could prior to installing pump) or could be worse - possibly engine damage. Latter of 2 options i believe is NOT the issue.

Heres a picture attached of the old spark plug wires after i ohmed them out. SOmething about that coil wire makes me VERY suspicious of the root cause of rough idle/missfire

Anyway, heres some pictures of the progress ive made and a few other things that go along with car. Maybe some people can chime in on different things or ideas/opinions on car/engine

And something to make this boat of a car a bit easier to maneuver would be these guys shown below

Wish me luck on this car and lets hope it purrs like the kitten it did before all this came about!!!

My 1930 Dodge prefers "stale" fuel. It is nearer the octane it was designed for. So I never bother replacing the fuel with fresh stuff. The older low octane fuel burns more quickly than the modern high-volatiles fuel so should work better in our flathead engines with large squashed combustion chambers.

Do you have a timing light? Put it on and see if the timing mark (or just put a dot on the damper or pulley with twink) moves around while idling. If so, look at the distributor. Timing is changing. Might need to rebuild the distributor. Check the vacuum system for leaks - to distributor and wipers. Does it have a bleeder tube on the inlet manifold below the carb to run off flooded fuel? Is it closing properly?

interesting......i never thought to check for bleeder screw on carb or using stale fuel in it haha. on a

side note, after replacing plugs and wires it still has a definite miss and is VERY low on power. will not get to highway speed of 55 mph. I have a video uploading right now of how its running currently. at start up it almost ALWAYS backfires through the carb and it used to NEVER do that. Sometimes it backfires once, ive had it backfire as much as 3 or 4 times during start up. Also, sometimes after just starting and idling for 1 or 2 min i can rev it up and it has an almost flooded/loaded up condition where it bogs engine down when i begin to rev it and then cleans up after i rev it. Heres a few pics of distributor internals, maybe someone can spot something im not sure about, im DEFINITLY a virgin when it comes to points ignition.

Heres that video of the car running,

If the engine cranks the first thing you do is to take a compression test. Next test you can do if you do not have a compressor tester hook up a vacuum gauge to the manifold when the engine is running. It tells a myriad story of the engine condition. you can also set the idle mixture and carburetor by using a vacuum gauge. A backfire is usually a symptom of leaking intake for various reason ( sticky tappets) Try some carburetor cleaner or transmission fluid into the carb when the engine is running at a fast clip to prevent stalling. Sometimes if there is a sticky valve it clears up. You did not state how long the engine sat, however if it sat for a long time the above mentioned method is worth a try. As a retired mechanic the first thing I would do is a compression test. You cannot beat that. The video of the engine running sounds like a helicopter and shakes as if it has ague fever or being rocked by an earthquake. I shall be looking forward to hear how your project is going. Cheer and good luck.

Vehicles with vacuum advance bolted to the distributer for mechanical advance is for starting only. However at times the diaphragm develops leaks and gas vapor from the carburetor gets into the distributor via the tube from the bottom of the carb. That causes a backfire with the distributor cap usually flying off. I had that experience. To check a vacuum dash pot hook up a vacuum gauge . Vacuum leaks anywhere in the system will cause misfire. I notice your distributor has no vacuum advance unit or it just did not show up in the picture. Cheers and have a nice day.

I watched the video and when the car finally decided to start the first thing I noticed is the carb "spit". The 1st thing I would look at in this instance is the carb.

It is either not adjusted correctly or it needs a rebuild. Also noticed when you revved the engine there was smoke coming out the tailpipe. It appears that the carb is running way too rich and getting too much gas.

Also, the way the engine is rocking back and forth I would replace the front and rear motor mounts.

One other thing - if you are going to tune up the engine why go at it in steps. You might as well do a complete tune-up and replace all of the ignition components together. It can't hurt.

If you think it could be stale gas try running car from a gas can with fresh gas in it to see if it solves the problem. Just run a line from the pickup side of the fuel pump into the gas can.

Just my thoughts.

Hi there,

I agree with Joe that rather than in steps replace everything so you know it's all done at once. Also when revved the engine is starving of either fuel or air. The choke isn't jammed on inside the carb is it ?

Let us know how you go.

Cherrs

Ian

The first thing a tune up mechanic will do is a compression test, dry and wet. If bad start with solving engine problem. Visual inspection is important . A tune up consist of changing plugs, condenser, cleaning and adjusting contacts, changing wires, rota and cap. If carb is suspect have it repaired. Malfunctioning choke can cause lots of problem. As we get older we tend to forget some things sometimes after being retired for so long. I recently had an experience with a choke cable on my 28 D.B.. Both the cable and housing was moving simultaneously causing flooding. I took me a while to smarten up. In an old car look out for anything. In the old carburetor days we spray the carb with carburetor cleaner and let sit for a while , then start engine and spray some into the air horn while the engine fast idles. Spray until the engine wants to die, stop, and when the engine picks up speed spray some more until the whole system gets cleaned out. I saw older mechanics used transmission oil. But when all else fail its back to basic. There are too many variables to look for. By running the engine in the dark will show up sparks outside the cap and wires. Rebuild. DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME, Cheers and have nice day.

Your spark plug "wires" look to be carbon core.

Get some WIRE wire spark plug wires and see how it runs.

I didn't check the spark plug numbers but if those are resister plugs lose those too.

Heres compression test results, seems a bit low to me but i have to remember its a 75 yr old unmolested engine. So to me they seem FAIRLY even but a tad low. Definitely no reason for rough running engine IMO, could be wrong though.

Also, front 2 plugs are wet, cant tell if their oily or gassy, but their wet/damp. Back 4 plugs are carboned.

A 15 lbs difference for an old engine is not that bad. I do not know what the compression should be but from past experience 80 lbs is not far of. Compression ratio is 6.1. I do have reservations on the two adjacent cylinders with equal compressions. It is normally an indication of a head gasket leaking between the 2 cylinders, therefore the equal compression. If that is the case the two cylinders will try to fire at the same time and cause serious damage. The wet and sooty spark plugs is an indication of too much gas which can be detected at the tailpipe. The gas in the 2 adjacent is not burning but goes directly to exhaust. A valve job is not that expensive. My opinion is take the head off and have it resurfaced. Run your fingernail against the ring grove. If your nail gets caught on the grove its time to cut the block one size up. If not leave the bottom end alone. Just reface the valve. You can do that yourself by using lapping compound and suction cup with a wooden handle available from Napa. You may be able to get a valve tool at flea markets for about 2 dollars. Or you may get a machinist to resurface them but make sure you lap them on spot. I will not rebuild the block at this stage regardless of wear. I will do the head and valves and get the engine running first and take it from there. Change to wire core high tension and regular plugs for now. They are readily available from Napa. Give Napa a try for head gasket as well. If my suggestion works enjoy driving your car until you can afford to do an engine job if necessary. Tappet clearance is .006 for intake and .008 for exhaust. Points clearance is .025 and plugs .028 according to Dodge. This is my humble suggestion only. I am no expert. Cheers . Good luck FREE ADVICE IS EXACTLY WHAT IT'S WORTH. ONE CAN ONLY APPRECIATE ADVICE WHEN IT IS PAID FOR .

Sounds like you have a spark plug wire on the wrong plug

Hi Rick, in a mechanically sound engine it is possible to mistakenly switch wires . Usually the firing order is cast on most heads. When doing a compression test the plugs has to be removed. A 70 year old flat head engine with the original gasket is highly suspect. Usually the gasket material around the head bolts are so narrow as to cause the gasket to gave way .Most times it is fatigue. I am subject to correction.

Harry Cheers

Try putting compressed air into the cylinder, put the nozzle in the hole and pad it with a cloth and force air into it . Have an assistant put a finger on the other hole and see if any air is coming through. If air is coming through then compression is bypassing from one cylinder into the next. Cheers and have day. Harry

A 15 lbs difference for an old engine is not that bad. I do not know what the compression should be but from past experience 80 lbs is not far of. Compression ratio is 6.1. I do have reservations on the two adjacent cylinders with equal compressions. It is normally an indication of a head gasket leaking between the 2 cylinders, therefore the equal compression. If that is the case the two cylinders will try to fire at the same time and cause serious damage. The wet and sooty spark plugs is an indication of too much gas which can be detected at the tailpipe. The gas in the 2 adjacent is not burning but goes directly to exhaust. A valve job is not that expensive. My opinion is take the head off and have it resurfaced. Run your fingernail against the ring grove. If your nail gets caught on the grove its time to cut the block one size up. If not leave the bottom end alone. Just reface the valve. You can do that yourself by using lapping compound and suction cup with a wooden handle available from Napa. You may be able to get a valve tool at flea markets for about 2 dollars. Or you may get a machinist to resurface them but make sure you lap them on spot. I will not rebuild the block at this stage regardless of wear. I will do the head and valves and get the engine running first and take it from there. Change to wire core high tension and regular plugs for now. They are readily available from Napa. Give Napa a try for head gasket as well. If my suggestion works enjoy driving your car until you can afford to do an engine job if necessary. Tappet clearance is .006 for intake and .008 for exhaust. Points clearance is .025 and plugs .028 according to Dodge. This is my humble suggestion only. I am no expert. Cheers . Good luck FREE ADVICE IS EXACTLY WHAT IT'S WORTH. ONE CAN ONLY APPRECIATE ADVICE WHEN IT IS PAID FOR .

your probably right on head gasket....heres a picture of side of engine from a few years back.

Sounds like you have a spark plug wire on the wrong plug

Your exactly right bud, i went out today and triple checked the plug wire routing on the distributor. Someone (not myself) had switched cyl 1 and cyl 2 wires on the dist. causing the obvious misfire and wet plug condition. Put plugs in correct order and it purrs like a happy kitten now!!

Im absolutely ecstatic that it was something as simple as that. Wishing i would have found it beforehand, but replacing ingition system after so many years wasnt nesc. a bad thing to do anyway.

Glad you sorted your problem ... I notice in the photo of the plugs that their is 3 different plugs there ...

My 34 Dodge plugs were a little carbon covered, I have just fitted an adjustable main jet in the carby and was advised to try a hotter plug.... When I got the car it was fitted with Champion J6C and the last set I got were NGK B6G... What would be an appropriate plug to suit ???????? Thanks Ken

well.....went to take it to a show today, drove it approx 10 miles, stopped to get fuel, when i came out i revved up engine and began to let clutch pedal out, nearly as soon as i began to let pedal out car died and would not re-fire. other member of my car club stopped and figured it was probably ignition coil. They said when they are bad and they hot they quit working and no longer provide spark to the car. Other issue with this is the coil is snugged between cylinder head and some hardened wire which makes the coil that much hotter from sitting against the head.

another thing is i attempted to put a points set in it but the new set wouldnt open when installed. put old set back in and it worked fine, not sure whats going on there. sets look identical but the new set wouldnt open when eccentric was turned. any ideas?

An old trick is to wrap the coil with a wet cool cloth to cool down . It will help you get out of trouble temporarily. Why would you want to run an old coil ? You are looking for trouble. The coil and condenser may be in there before Christ was born. I would suggest you go to NAPA and get replacement. Change the position of the coil somewhere cool and rewire it. Most cars that we appreciate today were no angel in its days. Some had more defects than others. Flush the master cylinder and bleed the brakes. There should be a hill holder in the system. Happy motoring

Sure it wasn't vapor locked my 38 used to do the same thing until I wrapped the fuel line

Sure it wasn't vapor locked my 38 used to do the same thing until I wrapped the fuel line

Don't think so. I smelled raw fuel and had 0 spark

Check your ignition circuit with a test light. Check your coil output by grounding( the distributor wire) the out wire , hold the coil high tension wire close to the block but not touching and scratch the other terminal briefly with a hot wire. If there is spark the coil is good but not necessary perfect. May break down when hot. The ignition key may be intermittent . Use jumper to bypass. Hot wire.

Good luck.

Harry

ok well i ordered a new coil as their only 15 bucks. I was also told i need to add an ignition coil resister to the car as to ensure the coil doesnt go bad on me again. Ive never heard of a coil resister, are those needed in these vehicles or not? i bought one but dont want to cut up wire and install it if its not needed. i believe what i got was a BWD brand coil resistor model number RU4

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/BWD0/RU4.oap?ck=Search_ru4_-1_4315&keyword=ru4

is this anything you guys are running or is it not needed.

Looking at the position of the coil bolted on to the engine block is not an ideal place. May be you should think about changing spot. Resisters are used to save premature points burnouts and not coil. You need a full voltage in your coil in order to get a maximum output as designed . Installing a resister between the ignition and the "in" of the coil is self defeating. Try wrapping a piece of body insulator around the coil for trial too. During my working years I came across hair line cracks inside caps. By running the engine in the dark will reveal spark jumping. Not many old cars were of ideal design .

I am always subject to correction. Cheers and have a nice day.

Lot of good info here folks;)

Hello from another '39 Deluxe owner! I've been working on mine since 2008, we should compare notes! See my restoration blog here: http://home.earthlink.net/~dodgedeluxe/ I looked at some of your pics that have posted and noticed subtle differences in you pics, looks like you have a Carter carb, mine came factory with a Stromberg. I noticed too that your coil is different, mine is firewall mounted. Drop me a note sometime, maybe we can help each other out as I'm having my share of issues too! Take care.

Dan

You guys should continue contact here while discussing your common issues. Then others can benefit from your discussions too.

And maybe someone else will have the answers to your questions as well! You never know until it happens! That's the beauty of a Forum!

Not all 6 volts ignition coils are designed the same. Some are positive ground and some are negative ground. The 39 dodge is positive ground. The negative terminal of the coil goes to the distributor. When ordering a coil make sure to specify type of ground. A good coil , using an ohm meter must not be less than 17000 ohms. ( connect out terminal and the other probe to the tower) Condensers can be faulty as well . Too high or too low will add metal to one side of the contact or the other. Condensers sitting over long periods will deteriorate and will function as a resister. May burn up contacts instantly. It is inexpensive , Please replace.

hmmmm, i may have put my wires on the coil incorrectly then....but the car starts and runs? im pretty sure the positive terminal of coil was and now is on the dist. with the neg going to some round thing under the dash with a hard wire that runs to ign. switch

I checked the manual and confirmed the ground is positive so your wiring is correct. However, battery grounds on frame and engine most times seems to be good but being there for many years there could be corrosion . It is prudent to remove all grounds and clean. Battery terminals are a common source of problem, like undercharging. There is a type of battery terminal used by just peeling the end of the cable and clamping with 2 1/4 bolts Remove the clamp and check the cable. You will be surprised. The point is you never know what the previous owner did. I am not saying yours are incorrect in any way . It is just pointers in general. I think you are doing fine. If after running the engine for a few hours and the compression does not improve you may want to check the valve clearance and take it from there .Cheers and have a nice day.

well drove the car furthest its been under its own power in many years, total of 14 or 16 miles tonight - all of which were 110% TROUBLE FREE!!!! I truly feel like this car is really starting to take shape again and WANT to go down the road and cruise with the best of them. it drove 60 mph without a hiccup all the way to destination and back home.

Now you may want to try this while the engine is running at about 900 R.P.M. spray some automatic transmission oil into the carb with the air filter off. There will be lots of smoke but burn about 6 to 8 ounces. It helps to decarbonise the internal of the engine , loosen sticky rings and valve guides .

Harry