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Pull starting a '26 Dodge?


Rogillio

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I am not able to turn the engine over more than a few times with the battery/starter. I suspect the battery wires are too small....made for a 12V system. I'm thinking about trying to pull start the car. Any things I should know or be careful of?

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I do have the crank handle. My concern is getting fuel to the head. I have completely rebuilt the carb and vaccum tank and cleaned out the fuel lines. Someone has added a 'modern' fuel filter and short rubber fuel like just before the vaccum tank so I was able to siphen gas up to that tank. Not sure I can get enough suction at the head to fill the resevoirs in the carb and vacuum tank by hand cranking.

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I would assume the engine is designed to start on either the crank handle or the starter. Providing you have enough compression there should be no problem in getting fuel to the head. Ideally do a compression test. So long as you can feel the compression against your thumb over a plug hole (on the compression stroke) on all cylinders, you should be O.K. These engines have a fairly low compression ratio of about 50 p.s.i. Provided you have primed the system and your ignition/timing etc. is in order, it should fire. There is no real advantage in pull starting in my view.

Ray

Edited by R.White (see edit history)
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How do I prime the fuel system? I’m not sure I can get enough suction at the head to fill the reservoirs in the carb and vacuum tank unless I get a few hundred (thousand?) RPMs….at least until I get the air out of the lines.</SPAN></SPAN>

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I have the same age car as you and found that so long as the vacuum and fuel lines are completely air tight there is enough suction from the engine (despite the low compression ratio) to start on the handle. What I did was pressurise the main fuel tank sufficiently to fill the vacuum tank and carb. Don't over do it though or you could end up with fuel all over the place. Another (better) way is to fill the vacuum tank from the top if you can but they don't all have a filler plug to remove. The level will automatically be reached in the carb bowl but again be careful not to overfill it. If you do flood the carb, leave it for an hour or so before attempting to start.

I can only say what worked for me but I hope it works for you also.

Ray.

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I tried to pressurize the tank but the fuel level gauge leaks too bad so this didn't work. I bought a syringe and put gas into the top of the vac tank.....about 2 pints. It actually hit for the first time! I got all excited....but it still won't crank....just turns over and every once in a while will hit. No fuel or oil on plugs and they are brand new so it's obvious there is no combustion going on.

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That is very good advise, Bleach. When I got my car, it had the wrong (12volt) cables and until they were replaced with the heavier 6 volt ones, the starter was much too slow.

Rogillio, I would recommend soldering the connectors and also grounding the transmission. However, the engine should still fire up easily with the crank handle. It may pay to read the past threads on the stewart warner carb. As you have rebuilt this fairly simple instrument you will have noticed that there is only one mixture adjustment. A bowed manifold flange will allow air to be drawn past the gasket, Also getting the choke position right is quite critical for easy starting. I am going to assume that you have checked for a regular, strong blue spark at the plugs and that they are gapped correctly. It's very easy to "teach Granny to suck eggs" with this sort of thing. Keep trying!

Ray.

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I got her started! Very excited! I put a new coil and condenser and replaced all the terminals to the coil and distributed and it started off the battery! Whoooohooo!

it runs real rough and is pooling water are around two plugs....cracked block?

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Whoooohooo!

it runs real rough and is pooling water are around two plugs....cracked block?

Woohoo indeed!

You say it is pooling water around two plugs? Which two? If it is the front two, look at that top radiator hose connection onto the head. My DC was leaking out the bottom of the hose and into the front two plugs, esp. the first. Look for simple things first - don't frighten yourself with worst case ideas until all else is examined! Those wire hose clips are original style but there is a good reason they went away from them: they can pinch the tube and leave a wee water channel through the connection.

Does it have any core (a.k.a. Welch) plugs in the head? e.g. at the back, perhaps on top?

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If you can drive the car and there is not a cloud of steam following you then you don't have a problem with water entering the combustion chamber and Spinnyhill is on the money. Is the engine running any better now?

Talking about simple things first, I trust you changed the oil. What oil are you using?

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  • 2 weeks later...

So right after I got it started and drove it up and down the street in my neighborhood we went on vacation. Got back on Sunday. I changed the oil in her last night. OMG, there was a lot of 'sludge' in there....and a little bit of water. I cleaned the oil trap and put straight 30 weight oil, no detergent.

I can't get her started again. I don't know why. I was looking in the mechanics manual last night and noticed the the distributer advance arm was opposite what I thought it was. That is, 'advance' is all the way down and retard is all the way up. I think I read that to start, it sould be fully retarded.....but I'm pretty sure I started it the first time fully advanced. I'm also not sure what position the trottle advance should be in when starting.

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Assuming you have the Gemmer steering gear and the hand control levers are mounted above the steering wheel. (The earlier cars have the levers mounted under the wheel). For starting, the ignition should always be fully retarded (spark hand lever on the left) and the throttle open. Pull out choke on dash. If your engine started easily from cold in the fully advanced position it would indicate that your timing might be slightly out. Set the timing with the lever down. Assuming you have a 5 bearing engine with the 'window' opening in the flywheel housing timing is straightforward enough.

I am assuming your linkages are all in order. The ball and cup connections tend to come apart with age. Just check that the distributor is actually moving when you operate the lever!

On my car the linkages had been swapped over so the levers were confusing.... these things are sent to try us. ;)

Ray.

Edited by R.White (see edit history)
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Thanks! Yes, the levers are on the steering wheel by the horn. I read about setting the timing and based on the serial number, I think there should be an opening in the flywheel cover but I've not looked.

I don't have a choke on the vehicle. I have a gas pedal that opens a butterfly at the top of the carb and the throttle arm that operates a pivoting arm on the side of the carb.

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Without seeing a photo, I can't be sure if you have the right carb. You should have a Stewart Warner carb as shown in the workshop manual. They are often seen for sale on ebay. I paid $50 for my spare carb in very good condition but beware of over priced examples needing work. If your car is of the 'two unit' 6 volt design like mine, the float chamber is on the left. Earlier cars which had a combined 12 volt starter/generator had the carb float chamber on the right and won't fit your car because of the starter motor location. The mixture adjustment is a simple but clever rack and pinion design and incorporates the choke.

Ray.

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Yes, I have the carb like yours. I rebuilt it per the Mechanics manual.

I check the the timing and adjusted the points from about .05 to .02 per the manual. But then I think I put the rotor on 180 out. It turned over and backfired.......the battery is drained now. I reversed the rotor and will try again when the battery cools down.

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Thanks! Yes, the levers are on the steering wheel by the horn.

I don't have a choke on the vehicle. I have a gas pedal that opens a butterfly at the top of the carb and the throttle arm that operates a pivoting arm on the side of the carb.

So are you saying that the hand throttle operates the carb rack and pinion? This is operated by cable on my car and is (the choke) used for cold starting. Just trying to visualise how your set up is different from mine.

Ray.

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Yes, it rotates that worm gear in the carb. Sound like it should be up when starting.

BTW, the mechanics manual says full retarded is down, not up.

In my instruction manual there are two pictures of the levers; Gemmer and Dodge Brothers. The 'Gemmer' set up shows the hand spark lever on the left; full retard being up.:confused: I don't think the manual is correct. In practise, the lever should be down to retard. I don't think the hand throttle should operate the choke but no problem if it does.

Ray.

Edited by R.White (see edit history)
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That's a wrap then. We are both reading the same script. Only point I would make is that the ignition must be fully retarded if you start with the crank in case there is a kick back which can happen if it's too advanced. I wouldn't like you to get a broken wrist!:eek:

Ray.

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I watched some u-tube videos on hand cranking about how to only use your left hand and not wrap your thumb around the crank in case of a back fire.

Here is the carb. The lever on the ignition is controls the worm gear but is also slaved the top of the carb.

post-100407-143142644916_thumb.jpg

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The maintenance manual for adusting distributer call for losening to the nut on top of the distributer. This is an odd shapped 'nut'....it's actually the cam. Is there a specual tool to losen this? The slot at the top is too wide for a screw driver.

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Short and sweet video!

The photo of your carb has raised some more questions for me. The interesting bit is the little inlet manifold. Looking at the picture of the "c" engine in my mechanics instruction manual the L shaped 'toggle' (for want of a better description) is shown but is the other way up. but more intriguingly it is not connected to anything! The screw in spindle with the hole in the end for a split pin - what you guys call a cotter pin - is shown and this is what you have - but on your "B" engine. In the manual it is missing from the "B" engine. Obviously, these things get swapped about over time.

I have the spindle on my spare carb but the L shaped toggle is missing. Until now I had no idea what it was for. The carb currently fitted to my car, which has the later "C" engine, has the hole in the manifold blanked off and the rack and pinion choke mechanism is operated by a cable from the dash. The lever on the steering wheel operates the butterfly/throttle independently of the accelerator pedal. Thanks for clearing something up. :)

Ray.

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The maintenance manual for adusting distributer call for losening to the nut on top of the distributer. This is an odd shapped 'nut'....it's actually the cam. Is there a specual tool to losen this? The slot at the top is too wide for a screw driver.

I see what you mean. I think the book is referring to an earlier type distributor/coil, I don't know. If your distributor is like mine, it is positioned towards the front of the engine next to the fan belt and is of a different design to the earlier ones which are positioned further to the left. To adjust, separate the hand control linkage by undoing the nut, then loosen the clamp screw. Should you need to remove the distributor, remove the locating bolt from the side. It can be a good idea to mark it's location to preserve timing.

Should you wish to set the timing, first set the hand lever in the fully retarded position before disconnecting the linkage from the distributor clamp. Remove the spark plugs; expose the hole in the flywheel housing (if you have one), then place a thumb over No. 1 plug hole (nearest radiator) and turn the engine over with the crank until compression can be felt. Continue to turn engine over slowly on the compression stroke until the "I" mark appears centrally in the "window" in the flywheel housing. The timing is now set at 8 deg. after top dead centre on the firing stroke. With the rotor arm pointing towards No.1 segment in the distributor cap the contact breaker points should be just set to open. Adjust the gap to 0.020" and Bobs your Mother's brother.

There is a different procedure for engines without the convenient "window" and I don't know if you have that on your engine.

Ray

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Yes, I have the access hole on the flywheel. Last night I turned till I felt compression on the number 1 cylinder and then started looking for the timming mark. I came to a 'hole' and thought that was it! I was wrong. Later I saw there were other drilled holes too and realized they were drilled to balance the flywheel and were not the timing mark! I then found an actual "I" stampped on the flywheel. I set the points to .022 (that's the feeler gauge I had). And how they heck did you know Bob was my mon's brother?!

Side story - my Mom's brother Bob is 79 yo and he said the first car he ever owned was a 1927 DB coupe! He bought it in 1953 when he was in the Navy and paid $50 for it. He said he and my dad once got pulled over for running a red light in the thing because the brakes were so bad they couldn't stop! They were in uniform so the cop let them off with a warning to slow down. He said he had replaced the drive shaft 2x on that thing because the axle was mis-aligned. He kept the car for a few years and sold it for $50. I thought that was really cheap....but then, in 1953 the car was already 25 years old! I've asked him if he has any pictures of the car but so far he has not found any.

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Myers Dodge shows this as the North East Model O Distributor (Points cam nut). This is similar to what is on mine but the slot is wider. I think I need a spanner wrench to loosen it. I tried loosening the clamp and loosening the bold on the side but the whole thing moved instead of just the base (and subsequently the points). I will try again tonight.</SPAN>

post-100407-143142646584_thumb.jpg

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