3 shades of gray

My idea is: at one time the rocker, clams and wheel web charcoal paint all matched but over time they faded to produce 3 shades of gray. I'd like to eventually paint all trim backgrounds rockers, clamshells and wheel webs the same gray. Goldie's wheels are almost ready, I need to make the one time call on the shade of gray.

Dick, Tom and Gord please provide your 0.02. Any and all supporting facts and opinions welcome.

Thanks guys,

Mike

From left to right a pic of Plasikote Builders Cast Gray, GM Dark Charcoal Gray and the 50 year old Buick charcoal wheel webs. I like the GM color which matches the clamshells almost perfect and closer to the color on the rocker trims but way off from the wheel webs :-(

Anything not rust color is good right?

Anything not rust color is good right?

Going black wheels webs, clam & rocker backgrounds on my 65 GS project: The Ghost. It is going to look great with all that black trim and black top Z2 code car but all rat rod flat with flat clear coat.

Goldie I want correct, hold the rust :-)

From left to right a pic of Plasikote Builders Cast Gray, GM Dark Charcoal Gray and the 50 year old Buick charcoal wheel webs. I like the GM color which matches the clamshells almost perfect and closer to the color on the rocker trims but way off from the wheel webs :-(

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Hi Mike,

I don't know enough about these wheels but did Buick change the shade of gray on the rims at certain years? Maybe Dick Sweeney may have some knowledge on this subject. He has or had a very sweet 65 GS and not too long ago he posted a radio interview, but one that had a lot of still images of his Verde green GS. Just a thought...

My idea is: at one time the rocker, clams and wheel web charcoal paint all matched but over time they faded to produce 3 shades of gray. I'd like to eventually paint all trim backgrounds rockers, clamshells and wheel webs the same gray. Goldie's wheels are almost ready, I need to make the one time call on the shade of gray.

Dick, Tom and Gord please provide your 0.02. Any and all supporting facts and opinions welcome.

Thanks guys,

Mike

Mike,

All the wheels I have are originals (always amazed at how durable the original charcoal paint is!) but I have used Eastwoods charcoal wheel color and was not satisfied with it. Perhaps if I had used a light colored primer under it the results would have been more acceptable but there still would be too much metallic in it.

Jason Zerbini has recently posted a few choices in another thread. I dont remember which thread but I`m sure a quick search would produce the results.

I have the original formula if someone has the connections to have a paint supplier convert the formula into currently available materials. Keep us posted, very useful thread,

Tom

Closer examination of my wheels indicates they were rechromed hence they have been repainted. The web color has a bronze hue the pictures don't show. I don't trust the color enough to use it as a reference. Post any information you have.

Tom, I found a answer I like:

I believe Argent is the silver used to detail the grille and center hood molding. It may be closer to the wheel paint Buick used on the `64 Wildcat mag wheels, which is much lighter than the `65 accent color, but the `65, `66 and first edition `67 wheels are a much darker color than Argent....more dark charcoal, same color as the clamshell accents and rocker molding recesses on the `65`s.

Tom Mooney

The too light color looks faded, matching the rocker & clam recesses not only makes more sense it plain looks better. I ordered the Eastwood dark charcoal I'll compare to the GM dark charcoal over gray primer.

Hey Clams, If you're going all black on the Ghost, I recommend Krylon satin black (if you don't mind using "over the counter" product) it has proved to be a great finish & very durable. After hours of masking off the chrome on my wheels, clams & rockers I was on a crazed masking rampage so I did the grille also. On my dark silver/gray 65 the original charcoal was very close to my paint color & the result was a very washed out look. Now it looks great! Would love to show you but I guess I need to get a 12 yr.old to teach me how to post pics on the forum. One day..... Drew

Hey Clams, If you're going all black on the Ghost, I recommend Krylon satin black (if you don't mind using "over the counter" product) it has proved to be a great finish & very durable. After hours of masking off the chrome on my wheels, clams & rockers I was on a crazed masking rampage so I did the grille also. On my dark silver/gray 65 the original charcoal was very close to my paint color & the result was a very washed out look. Now it looks great! Would love to show you but I guess I need to get a 12 yr.old to teach me how to post pics on the forum. One day..... Drew

Hey Drew, rattle cans work for me. Did you use the pin stripe masking tape from a auto paint supply store for the raised clam & rocker ribs? The washed out look.....I know what you mean and I'll be going black just for that reason. If I don't post a pic every week I forget how and have to get the Mrs. to show me again so don't feel bad.

Finding a smoking gun answer on this topic is like finding a needle in a hay stack. Watching this clip http://comediansincarsgettingcoffee....airline-pilots I paused on the close up of the road wheel painted a light gray gloss with no metallic what so ever.

Black: incorrect for 65

Charcoal: looks washed out

Builders cast gray: no match to the clam & rocker recesses

Argent: the metallic just looks wrong

Satin or semi gloss black is sure sounding good right about now, although incorrect looks the best.

Sheesh!

I tried pinstripe tape but found it hard to work with. I experimented & ended up with 1" 3M blue masking tape. I rolled out about 15" at a time (aprox. 1 revolution), laid it down lightly on a clean surface & marked it down the middle with a fine point pen & straightedge, peeled it up & rolled it carefully back on the roll, then cut down through several layers with an xacto, giving me two 1/2" wide strips. ( 1/4" strips are harder to manage) Each strip will do two ribs on your clams or rockers. The shorter the length the easier to work with. I carefully masked the topmost (most visible) surface, folded it down over the vertical surface, then the underside, tucking it tightly, then ran an zacto down the crease. If you made a nice cut when you split the roll of tape, then the piece you're left with should have one good straight edge and will be perfect for the next rib. I say this because ribs are not all even, and neither will the edge that you trim off be. Hope that makes sense. You'll need a six-pack & and plenty of blades.Have a ball! Drew

I tried pinstripe tape but found it hard to work with. I experimented & ended up with 1" 3M blue masking tape. I rolled out about 15" at a time (aprox. 1 revolution), laid it down lightly on a clean surface & marked it down the middle with a fine point pen & straightedge, peeled it up & rolled it carefully back on the roll, then cut down through several layers with an xacto, giving me two 1/2" wide strips. ( 1/4" strips are harder to manage) Each strip will do two ribs on your clams or rockers. The shorter the length the easier to work with. I carefully masked the topmost (most visible) surface, folded it down over the vertical surface, then the underside, tucking it tightly, then ran an zacto down the crease. If you made a nice cut when you split the roll of tape, then the piece you're left with should have one good straight edge and will be perfect for the next rib. I say this because ribs are not all even, and neither will the edge that you trim off be. Hope that makes sense. You'll need a six-pack & and plenty of blades.Have a ball! Drew

Makes perfect sense, all I need is some rum in my coffee for the masking mission. Thank you for the detailed instructions. Mike

From left to right a pic of Plasikote Builders Cast Gray, GM Dark Charcoal Gray and the 50 year old Buick charcoal wheel webs. I like the GM color which matches the clamshells almost perfect and closer to the color on the rocker trims but way off from the wheel webs :-(

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If the gray on the left is supposed to be rebuilders cast gray, there is something seriously wrong. That is not what rebuilders cast gray looks like.

Hi Jason, here is another pic of the same test piece in different light with the Builders Cast (left) and the GM Charcoal (right).

Hi Jason, here is another pic of the same test piece in different light with the Builders Cast (left) and the GM Charcoal (right).

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Ahh much better - Does the GM paint appear to have a slight bluish tint? Or is that lighting?

Ahh much better - Does the GM paint appear to have a slight bluish tint? Or is that lighting?

No blue but allot more sheen than the pics show.

Check out these wheels: http://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/pts/4536822633.html

No blue but allot more sheen than the pics show.

Check out these wheels: http://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/pts/4536822633.html

I know this thread is about the web color but those are not `65 wheels. What difference should that make? Because the step in the lug nut area characteristic of a disc brake wheel casts a shadow in the web area which deceives the eye regarding shade...the flat character of the lug nut area on a `65 wheel projects the color of the web, the disc brake contour casts a shadow that masks the color...once one knows the difference in the wheels these dont at all look like a `65 wheel...very different in appearance to an experienced eye.

Also, there is an extraordinary amount of bright light being directed at these wheels which will change when installed...

Yes, I have a problem...

Tom Mooney

I know this thread is about the web color but those are not `65 wheels. What difference should that make? Because the step in the lug nut area characteristic of a disc brake wheel casts a shadow in the web area which deceives the eye regarding shade...the flat character of the lug nut area on a `65 wheel projects the color of the web, the disc brake contour casts a shadow that masks the color...once one knows the difference in the wheels these dont at all look like a `65 wheel...very different in appearance to an experienced eye.

Also, there is an extraordinary amount of bright light being directed at these wheels which will change when installed...

Yes, I have a problem...

Tom Mooney

Those wheels are the 2 1/8" hole wheels?

Hard to tell the diameter of the center hole in pics, although I have become able to do so depending on the angle of the pic...but all one needs to do is look at the contour of the inside of the rims...one looks as though it may be a drum brake style wheel (could still be a `64 or `66-`67 1/2 wheel though) but at least two of the wheels are disc brake style wheels. From the pics those two wheels almost look like 7" rims which will not fit an early car without an adapter.

Below is the original formula for the charcoal grey color of the chrome wheel webs...enjoy

Tom

It appears that "Mooney is on the money" once again. No arguments there.

Have you checked the code numbers stamped inside the rim and compared them to the chart of part numbers on the ROA's website - Tech tips?

Sure enough Tom is right (no surprise) the wheels are not 65's based on one simple fact the holes are not 2" they are 2 1/8" and everything else falls right in place to the wheels being anything but 1965's.

Seriously - that, folks, is an awesome level of knowledge and why the ROA is not only so rewarding but so cool! Kudos to Tom (even though yes, you might need to get out more)

Mike sorry about the delay in response. Are you figuring out the color for the wheels you had done by Rally America or another set?

As you know I went with Black on the wheels I put on my car. I did do a few mock ups before I choose. The gray that I compared to was more like the darker gray that you displayed (got my guidance for color in another thread several months ago) and it didn't look good on the car - kind of washed it out a bit. The black one I used to compare looked great - so that is what I went with. I don't have rockers and did not do anything with my clamshell lids. Down the road I may go black with my clamshells, but for now I am keeping them original. Kinda partial to the black - even though it isn't the spec.

Rock On

gord

I've repainted my wheels, clams, steering column trim, rear deck trim and rockers with Eastwood'a Underhood Black...not the Matte Underhood black but the standard stuff. Kind of a satin look. My car is Silver and I wanted darker accents to the wheels and trim so I went black instead of grey.

I don't mask off any ribs...I paint the whole piece with 3 coats of the Eastwood product and then take a small exact-o knife and slowly whittle away the paint at the top of the rib. Time consuming but very nice.

Regarding the Buick wheels...I don't claim to know the difference so I go by the date code on the wheels. I got lucky with my car as it has all correct date coded wheels on it....mine all have the large "C" with the little "5" inside the "C"... (March 1965) stamped on the back of the wheels.

Pontiac used different two letter codes for specific sizes and whether they were equipped with drums or discs.

Goldie is solid but I am not going to drive her 12 hrs let alone across country to make these Buick events or spend 40k on a truck and trailer I use 3 times a year hence her correct wheel & trim recess color means less everyday. Maybe just maybe if there was more going on within a couple hour drive my interest and desire to go 100% on the trim accent color would rekindle. Anyway...............the washed out look is definitely a concern, my 66GS had what I thought to be faded wheel webs, I shot them semi gloss black and started getting compliments on the car, but most of all I liked the fresh look and would go black again on that car despite my new knowledge it isn't correct.

Tom provided the correct 65 wheel color paint formula. I'll have it made, test it against the Sahara Mist and go from there. The Ghost a Z2 car going correct Silver Cloud/ Black Vinyl or a flat silver/flat black paint top either way he is going black on all trim recesses.

Mike sorry about the delay in response. Are you figuring out the color for the wheels you had done by Rally America or another set?

As you know I went with Black on the wheels I put on my car. I did do a few mock ups before I choose. The gray that I compared to was more like the darker gray that you displayed (got my guidance for color in another thread several months ago) and it didn't look good on the car - kind of washed it out a bit. The black one I used to compare looked great - so that is what I went with. I don't have rockers and did not do anything with my clamshell lids. Down the road I may go black with my clamshells, but for now I am keeping them original. Kinda partial to the black - even though it isn't the spec.

Rock On

gord

Hi Gord,

Rally America is less than 2 weeks out from painting my wheels black or sending them back unpainted. I have to get cracking here.

Mike

Ahh much better - Does the GM paint appear to have a slight bluish tint? Or is that lighting?

I recant my response in a prior post comparing several gray and then one black you are right the GM color does have a blue tint. PPG found a Dark Argent GM wheel color I had a rattle can made at great expense. See what you think.

After 8 rattle cans of OTC silver and charcoal wheel paints then trying to get the lacquer formulated in The Crybaby State I had the color "made" in BC/CC after 3 attempts I am satisfied. Goldie's wheels are going be as correct as they get. Date correct Formula 5 wheels with new chrome, center caps and arguably perfect match correct wheel web color.

In my education I learned making the color in lacquer could and would vary from lot to lot of 3 colors and toner in their combinations in the end would require the painter to tone to make it match the sample wheel.

In my education I learned making the color in lacquer could and would vary from lot to lot of 3 colors and toner in their combinations in the end would require the painter to tone to make it match the sample wheel.

Glad you got it squared away. Now you understand why many use the cast gray paint off the shelf!

Yes indeed on the color matching. When the body shop and factory paint rep mixed the shadow turquoise paint for the 66 body using the original laquer formula, it wasn't even close but at least was a starting point. A couple hours later with several trial and error blending operations each with a test spray, they nailed the color to an original paint chip.

Glad you got it squared away. Now you understand why many use the cast gray paint off the shelf!

Yes indeed on the color matching. When the body shop and factory paint rep mixed the shadow turquoise paint for the 66 body using the original laquer formula, it wasn't even close but at least was a starting point. A couple hours later with several trial and error blending operations each with a test spray, they nailed the color to an original paint chip.

The Builders Cast Gray would have worked leaving only one person knowing it wasn't (as correct as it gets) correct.

Never a simple process but worth it.

Glad you got it squared away. Now you understand why many use the cast gray paint off the shelf!

Yes indeed on the color matching. When the body shop and factory paint rep mixed the shadow turquoise paint for the 66 body using the original laquer formula, it wasn't even close but at least was a starting point. A couple hours later with several trial and error blending operations each with a test spray, they nailed the color to an original paint chip.

Mike, Jason,

Are the original formulas of any use considering the original lacquer ingredients are not available? Or are they in a modified form?

Also, Mike, did you record the ingredients and proportions of your final mix so other might benefit by the info? Thanks,

Tom Mooney

A formula is a starting point for the painter to tone and match, there is no exact formula for any paint matching the final matching must be done to an existing color due to the variables. I could have procured the lacquers to make the Buick Bulletin formula only to have to have the paint toned to match.

The match was made off the books. I have enough left over to make 3-4 rattle cans or send a guy a swatch (since I had several date correct wheels with 50 year old web colors I got the sample for the match good), very good!

Mike, Jason,

Are the original formulas of any use considering the original lacquer ingredients are not available? Or are they in a modified form

Tom Mooney

No facts to be sure about the current ingredients vs original. One factor may depend what type of pigment is required for the color and if the EPA has or hasn't regulated it or any other ingredients. For example lead. Also a big one is cadmium which is a great pigment but its being strictly regulated as we know.

At work we have been going through color reformulations for plastics in order to take out the cadmium pigment and its been nothing but trouble.

The body shop did tell me ahead of time that the original formula used to mix modern paint won't match but its a good starting point and that some are closer than others.

No facts to be sure about the current ingredients vs original. One factor may depend what type of pigment is required for the color and if the EPA has or hasn't regulated it or any other ingredients. For example lead. Also a big one is cadmium which is a great pigment but its being strictly regulated as we know.

At work we have been going through color reformulations for plastics in order to take out the cadmium pigment and its been nothing but trouble.

The body shop did tell me ahead of time that the original formula used to mix modern paint won't match but its a good starting point and that some are closer than others.

You said it all right there Jason.

Mike, Jason,

Are the original formulas of any use considering the original lacquer ingredients are not available? Or are they in a modified form?

Also, Mike, did you record the ingredients and proportions of your final mix so other might benefit by the info? Thanks,

Tom Mooney

Providing a sample of the target color is #1, then a few tries later a experienced blender should have the match. It's the rattle cans that brought the toll to 133.31 for 4 rattle cans + 2 cans of OTC clear and enough left over for about 4 cans. I'll be painting the set of correct wheels with the color matched paint and the other set satin black and probably never go any color other than black again in the future.

Wheels rechromed by Rally America, webs painted BC/CC, new SS lug nuts, center caps, triple stripes. The picture does these wheels no justice they are in fact stunning!

The picture does these wheels no justice they are in fact stunning!

They look magnificent! I just love it when a plan comes together.

Steve

Awesome results…well worth the effort. Thx for sharing…

David

very nice Mike!

The wait on Rally America is worth it, isn't it Mike? When I found the triple stripes I had to have them too. Looks very sharp.

Rock On

gord