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Guest sschumaker

I have a question for anyone who has been through the early stages of getting interested in classic cars. Please bear with me on the lengthy build up to the question...

Background on me. I'm turning 40 next week, not rich, but I'm doing well. Mechanically inclined but not a car mechanic. Would feel comfortable working on interior, electrical, replacing whole parts but not body work or anything to do with the engine or transmission. Don't know a thing about which engines/transmissions can go in which cars. Interested in the 60's, but depending on the model would lean more towards 64 to 66. Not a muscle car guy, mustangs, camaros don't interest me. Looking for what could potentially be a daily driver but I have another car I use for work. A sample of models that catch my eye are the Corvair, Falcon, Galaxie, most any early 60s Buick, Belair, Torino, Rambler. Ideal dream car would be the 64 T-bird, HT or Convertible doesn't matter. Not a purist concerned with matching numbers or all original parts, I'm looking for something to drive as much as I want and enjoy, not show or take on the occasional cruise. Worried about getting a guzzler, as 15 mpg would be unheard of on some of the cars I like. Would make an exception for the T-bird. Trying to keep my initial purchase between 5 to 10k. Concerned about mechanical quality about body integrity first, good paint but not perfect, chrome decent, primary interior concern would be on the dash with everything functional but the upholstery just needs to be ok. All in all, I don't want to end up dumping 30k on this to restore. 15 to 20k once it's all said and done, would suit me better.

So my real question, is what am I getting myself into with these parameters I've set for myself. Is the 5 to 10k investment, staying as close to the low end as possible, realistic ? Upkeep, once I get this thing how I like it, will I need to still expect something needing to be replaced or repaired every month, or less often ? Not talking about regular car maintenance, tires , oil, belts that's understood. Not wanting someone to do research for me, as I've started looking on sites to get an idea of the prices. The cars I see around 10k or less I'm not expecting to be perfect but seem ready to drive and something I could live with as going through the process of repairing, replacing, buying parts. Am I being deceived and totally naive ? There aren't really any classic car dealer lots or warehouses close to me so it'd be a trip to get wherever to look at one, going solely on what I see online so far.

Any suggestions, advice, cars to stay away from and help in the right direction would be most appreciated.

Thanks,

Steven

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sschumaker,

Welcome to the AACA Discussion Forum. Where are you located? You might want to visit a local AACA Region or Chapter and meet some people if there is one near you. There is a good chance you could meet someone in your area who could really help you learn more about the hobby and some probably give you some good leads about potential cars for sale in your particular area. Once we know where you are located, it will be much easier to provide you with good advice on how to proceed. Usually it is much cheaper in the long run to spend more up front for a car in better condition rather than buying a cheaper car that needs much more work.

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Hello Steven and welcome.. first, where are you located? If in a warm part of the country, you can enjoy an older car almost year round. And that means there are car shows, swap meets, cruise nights year round as well.

If not in a warm climate, then with spring here, warm weather will soon get the older cars out, and the shows, swap meets etc will soon follow.

What I'd do is spend a lot of time at shows, swap meets, cruise nights etc, and talk with people. See what is for sale, why it's for sale, etc.

I would suggest finding something as a starter car.. if you want good fuel mileage, then stay with the compact cars of the era.

for the mid 60's, the Corvair, Falcon, ChevyII, mustang, camaro, valiant, Dart, etc.. and DO NOT go for the hot rod version, go for the plain jane

4 and 6cylinder versions, and just enjoy the car. Drive it, see what you like and dislike about it.

Join clubs, go to club functions. see other cars, projects, shows etc..

What you need to do is to find your niche that suits you. Some people have to have a perfect car, some like survivors with a few old scars or wounds. Some people must have tons of horsepower, or modify their car to be 'their car'. others like a bone-stock car as they were made and sold at the time.

Every car and every collector has their quirks, likes and dislikes. You need to find and recognize yours.

It's pretty hard to give much more advice, you need to find out what direction you want to go.

Fill in some information about where you are, and someone in your area will surely tell you about some local events to partake in.

Good luck.

GLong

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I have been in the old car hobby for most of my adult life (I am 54) so I have learne da few things over the years. One, old cars are like a marriage - they take work and dedication but if you are willing to dedicate the time and energy, it can be a rewarding experience. Second, things break on them but not as much as most people who are not in the old car hobby think they do. If you are proactive and take care of things that are potential problems early or at least address them as soon as they become an issue, you will have fewer issues over all. Thirdly, unless you really enjoy working on the cars, it is typically cheaper to buy a car already turn key than it is to buy a project and sink time and money into it. If you enjoy working on them, the project is great but OTH if you had rather just drive them and do regular maintenance, buy as nice of a car as you can afford as you will save money and frustration in the end.

Corvairs are fun cars and relatively inexpensive compared to many old cars. They can be used as a daily driver, get fairly decent MPG, have superb parts availaility and are unique.

Good luck in whatever path you go

Bob

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Guest sschumaker

Thank you all for taking time to reply. Located in Southeast Louisiana, neglected to put on my profile before posting. Good weather all year, mostly and we don't have much of a winter to contend with usually. Narrowing down my list for that starter, leaning towards a Corvair seeing as even ones in good condition are reasonably priced and the mpg is good. Still not wanting to rush into buying anything without a lot of research being it's my first purchase.

Will keep an eye out for those local events.

Bob, GLong, MCHinson, thanks for the advice.

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People worry too much about gas mileage on old cars. Do the math.

Take for example, a car that gets 15 MPG with gas at $4 a gallon and you drive it 5000 miles a year. Cost of fuel, $1333.33 per year

Instead, get a car that gets 20 MPG. That's more like it! Total cost of gas, $1000.00 or a saving of $333.33

Hmm that doesn't seem right. What if we go all the way from a Cadillac (15MPG) to a VW (30MPG) and cut the cost in half. Then we save $666.66

Yes that is OK but we are talking about a hobby that is going to cost thousands every year in purchase, repairs, insurance, etc etc. Notice too the 5000 miles which is on the high side for a lot of collector cars.

You have to use your own judgement but, you really don't save any substantial amount of money unless you double your mileage. You may well decide that the difference between driving a Cadillac and a Chevy Nova six is worth $333.33 a year.

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The kind of car you are looking for, the small and medium size cars of the sixties and seventies are kind of a happy hunting ground for good value. There seem to be quite a few to pick from, prices are not high, parts and repairs are not very difficult or expensive.

Much as I like the Corvair, I don't think it would be a good choice for someone starting out. Your most popular choice would be a Chevrolet Nova, Chevelle, or some other Chev product that is not a Corvair. Simply because they are fairly reliable, and parts and repairs are dead easy.

I lean toward the Chrysler products like Barracuda, Dodge Dart, and Valiant. They are better cars with better suspension, engine, transmission etc. Parts are in good supply and they are not hard to fix, even though they are not quite as good in this regard as Chevrolet.

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Guest sschumaker
People worry too much about gas mileage on old cars. Do the math.

Take for example, a car that gets 15 MPG with gas at $4 a gallon and you drive it 5000 miles a year. Cost of fuel, $1333.33 per year

Instead, get a car that gets 20 MPG. That's more like it! Total cost of gas, $1000.00 or a saving of $333.33

Hmm that doesn't seem right. What if we go all the way from a Cadillac (15MPG) to a VW (30MPG) and cut the cost in half. Then we save $666.66

Yes that is OK but we are talking about a hobby that is going to cost thousands every year in purchase, repairs, insurance, etc etc. Notice too the 5000 miles which is on the high side for a lot of collector cars.

You have to use your own judgement but, you really don't save any substantial amount of money unless you double your mileage. You may well decide that the difference between driving a Cadillac and a Chevy Nova six is worth $333.33 a year.

True, and good points. Suddenly that sweet T-bird is inching back into the picture :)

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Guest sschumaker
The kind of car you are looking for, the small and medium size cars of the sixties and seventies are kind of a happy hunting ground for good value. There seem to be quite a few to pick from, prices are not high, parts and repairs are not very difficult or expensive.

Much as I like the Corvair, I don't think it would be a good choice for someone starting out. Your most popular choice would be a Chevrolet Nova, Chevelle, or some other Chev product that is not a Corvair. Simply because they are fairly reliable, and parts and repairs are dead easy.

I lean toward the Chrysler products like Barracuda, Dodge Dart, and Valiant. They are better cars with better suspension, engine, transmission etc. Parts are in good supply and they are not hard to fix, even though they are not quite as good in this regard as Chevrolet.

It's the mechanics knowledge that I don't have. Knowing what's easy to fix, parts availability, reliability that I need. Will take time as I'm just getting into. Having a beautiful car that I'm afraid to drive doesn't help me much.

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As far as upkeep goes, old cars require more upkeep than new cars BUT they were designed so regular maintenance can be done easily and cheaply. For example, I like the slant six Dart, Barracuda etc. but they are one of the last motors made with solid valve lifters.

They need to have the valves adjusted every 20,000 miles. Disadvantage: this job takes about half an hour and costs $5 for a new gasket. Advantage: the motor will be as quiet as a hydraulic lifter motor or quieter, and it will stay that way for the life of the car if the adjustments are done.

There are other matters like lubrication (grease jobs) oil change, tuneup etc. None of these things is very difficult or expensive, and it is possible to keep the old cars going indefinitely. This is not true of new cars. They may seldom break down but if they do, they are often impossible to repair. So it is really 2 different philosophies of building and maintaining a car.

If you do the maintenance, and drive the car regularly, it should be nearly as reliable as a new car. I say "nearly" because we are talking about a car that passed its best before date when Madonna was a virgin.

There are lots of things that you can do to make an old car reliable, that do not have to cost a lot or take much time. For example, I will check an old car, especially under the hood, for rubber parts that are dried out, or oil soaked, perished, cracked etc. Like rad hoses, heater hoses, fuel lines, vacuum lines etc.

If they look dodgy you can replace everything under the hood for $100 or so and after that you do not need to worry about a blown hose, broken belt etc. And after all you only need to do this every 25 years.

Another thing that is good to do, is get new shock absorbers and a front end alignment. This will transform many old cars. We just had an inquiry from the owner of a 61 Cadillac on this point, I suggested he install new shocks and it transformed the ride. At first he could not believe his shocks were worn out as the car only had 19,000 miles but they were.

All this does not have to be done at once. It simply means you have to take a little time to keep an eye on things and do some simple maintenance chores. This will save endless heartache, breakdowns and repair expense and after all, is no more than any good piece of equipment deserves.

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Would also suggest you buy the best condition lowest mileage car. It will cost a premium price but you get value for your money. The cost of repairs, to a seedy car, will soon exceed the cost of buying the best car. A good paint job can cost $5000 for example.

Ramblers and AMC products can be excellent buys. They were great cars, reliable, economical, with the best ride and some little niceties you did not get in other makes. Parts can be harder to get than Big 3 makes but, there is a lot of support from enthusiasts and clubs.

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Best thing if you want to learn is to buy a repair manual and go by that. You need one even if you do not do your own repairs, today's mechanics will not be familiar with the old cars and having the manual will save you plenty in labor charges and repairs.

If you start with one of the basic, simple cars like Falcon, Fairlane, Dart, Belvedere, Chevelle, Nova etc. you can learn to do basic upkeep yourself or simply avoid a lot of problems that plague more complicated cars.

It might also help to go to some old car events and talk to some of the old timers. They will know where to find the good mechanics, parts stores, etc in your area.

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Steven;

I would recommend going to a local car show or even an AACA event near you and just look at the cars. Talk to the owners and first of all, DECIDE what YOU want. There is no sense getting any car as a starter except a car that appeals to your personal situation. The main thing is to love the car you buy and to have fun with it. After you have decided on what you want, then it is time to look for the car. Decide how much work you can or want to do. Next decide how much money you can or want to spend. Based on that information you can select a car from the ones that are out there. I would also suggest that as you review the possibilities of cars to buy, you keep the names and contact information on the present owners you talk to. Almost every owner knows of a couple of other cars out there like his that is for sale. Once you decide on the car type you want, contact those people for leads on cars available. Best of luck, and if you are interested in a Crosley, let me know,....I'd be happy to help!!

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Guest sschumaker
Best thing if you want to learn is to buy a repair manual and go by that. You need one even if you do not do your own repairs, today's mechanics will not be familiar with the old cars and having the manual will save you plenty in labor charges and repairs.

If you start with one of the basic, simple cars like Falcon, Fairlane, Dart, Belvedere, Chevelle, Nova etc. you can learn to do basic upkeep yourself or simply avoid a lot of problems that plague more complicated cars.

It might also help to go to some old car events and talk to some of the old timers. They will know where to find the good mechanics, parts stores, etc in your area.

I'd quote all your posts if I could, but thanks for all the info. Just with everyone's input so far, the picture in my head of what to expect is getting clearer. Nothing overwhelming, just soaking it all in. Knowing that a good paint job really does cost $5k will have me putting that higher on the priority when buying instead of just an added bonus. That's a hefty bill.

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Guest sschumaker
Steven;

I would recommend going to a local car show or even an AACA event near you and just look at the cars. Talk to the owners and first of all, DECIDE what YOU want. There is no sense getting any car as a starter except a car that appeals to your personal situation. The main thing is to love the car you buy and to have fun with it. After you have decided on what you want, then it is time to look for the car. Decide how much work you can or want to do. Next decide how much money you can or want to spend. Based on that information you can select a car from the ones that are out there. I would also suggest that as you review the possibilities of cars to buy, you keep the names and contact information on the present owners you talk to. Almost every owner knows of a couple of other cars out there like his that is for sale. Once you decide on the car type you want, contact those people for leads on cars available. Best of luck, and if you are interested in a Crosley, let me know,....I'd be happy to help!!

Will do. Broaden the scope then narrow it down bit by bit. Nobody can decide which car for me, but every bit of good advice I get from folks along the way will definitely influence it.

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On re reading your original post I see you are comfortable with electrical repairs. This could be a very important point especially on a luxury car like Thunderbird or Cadillac. They have a lot of convenience features not found on lesser cars like power windows, sequential turn signals (T bird), electric eye headlight dimmer (Cadillac) power seats etc.

They can be troublesome when they get old. Electrical gremlins are not necessarily expensive to fix, in terms of parts, but the hours of labor can be intense. If you can repair such things, without going nuts or ripping up the wiring you have a big advantage. You may find a T bird that has some electrical faults, or AC not working, that you can fix and such faults often result in a substantial discount on an otherwise nice car. Simply because it can cost a fortune to repair if you have to pay someone $85 an hour for 10 hours to diagnose and replace a $36 switch.

This is one of the biggest reasons to avoid the older luxury models, far more scary than gas mileage. If you have the time, the savvy and the patience to tackle such things it takes a way the biggest objection to buying one.

Edited by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)
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Guest sschumaker
On re reading your original post I see you are comfortable with electrical repairs. This could be a very important point especially on a luxury car like Thunderbird or Cadillac. They have a lot of convenience features not found on lesser cars like power windows, sequential turn signals (T bird), electric eye headlight dimmer (Cadillac) power seats etc.

They can be troublesome when they get old. Electrical gremlins are not necessarily expensive to fix, in terms of parts, but the hours of labor can be intense. If you can repair such things, without going nuts or ripping up the wiring you have a big advantage. You may find a T bird that has some electrical faults, or AC not working, that you can fix and such faults often result in a substantial discount on an otherwise nice car. Simply because it can cost a fortune to repair if you have to pay someone $85 an hour for 10 hours to diagnose and replace a $36 switch.

This is one of the biggest reasons to avoid the older luxury models, far more scary than gas mileage. If you have the time, the savvy and the patience to tackle such things it takes a way the biggest objection to buying one.

Excellent info again Rusty. Hadn't considered how much my labor was worth in offsetting costs, definitely capable of tackling those gremlins.

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Guest Commodore

Here is to help you think on this. A price guide on a 1964 Thunderbird and 1964 Corvair. Remember a price guide is just that a guide. Cars may be found that are more or less then the guide says.

1964 Thunderbird

http://www.hagerty.com/price-guide/1964-Ford-Thunderbird?img=1966_Ford_Thunderbird

1964 Corvair

https://www.hagerty.com/price-guide/1964-Chevrolet-Corvair?img=1962_Chevrolet_Corvair_Monza_Spyder

Edited by Commodore (see edit history)
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Here is some information on Louisiana AACA Regions and Chapters. I would encourage you to contact someone with an AACA Region or Chapter near you. I am sure they will be happy to help you with your quest for that first collector car.

[h=2]LOUISIANA[/h]Louisiana Region

President - Jean Waguespack

3404 Park Blvd

Chalmette, LA 70043

Louisiana Region - Baton Rouge Chapter

President - David Himelrick

715 Fulwar Skipwith Rd

Baton Rouge, LA 70810

Louisiana Region - Central Louisiana Chapter

President - Michael Collins

151 Von Orange Lane

Natchitoches, LA 71457

Louisiana Region - Contraband Chapter

President - James Stratton

2448 W. Armand

Lake Charles, LA 70611

Louisiana Region - Evangeline Chapter

President - Ronald Sonnier

102 Anna St.

Rayne, LA 70578

Louisiana Region - Lagniappe Chapter

President - Fred Duplechin

127 Camelot Ct

Schriever, LA 70395

Louisiana Region - Slidell Antique Car Chapter

President - Buddy Adams

401 Westminster drive

Slidell, LA 70460

Louisiana Region - St. Bernard Chapter

President - Richard Ragan Jr

2713 Bayou Road

Chalmette, LA 70085

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Guest nvsteve

You might consider adding a mid-size car from the 60's to your list, maybe even a four door or wagon since the prices are lower on those than two door hardtops and convertibles.

One of my personal favorites has always been 62-64 Chevy Bel Airs and Impalas. They have a lot to offer. Time proven reliability with the 283 V8 engine and powerglide transmission. Easy to work on. Good highway performance and decent fuel economy. Tremendous parts interchangeability. Roomy interiors, huge trunk capacity. Easily updated to modern technology such as disc brakes. Will always be worth what you paid for it.

Just sayin'. Good luck on your quest!

Steve in Minden NV

1929 Franklin Sport Runabout

1995 Buick Riviera

2001 Dodge Ram diesel

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Guest sschumaker
Here is to help you think on this. A price guide on a 1964 Thunderbird and 1964 Corvair. Remember a price guide is just that a guide. Cars may be found that are more or less then the guide says.

1964 Thunderbird

http://www.hagerty.com/price-guide/1964-Ford-Thunderbird?img=1966_Ford_Thunderbird

1964 Corvair

https://www.hagerty.com/price-guide/1964-Chevrolet-Corvair?img=1962_Chevrolet_Corvair_Monza_Spyder

That site just got saved to my favorites, nice.

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The prices on that site seem awfully high to me. They must mean prize winning show cars. I see decent Thunderbirds from the mid sixties for under $10000 all the time.

Here is a 65 for $6500 Canadian, the same car in the US would be under $5000.

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-classic-cars/oshawa-durham-region/1966-ford-thunderbird-hardtop-coupe/581620719?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

Not a show car but a decent driver you could have some fun with.

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Guest Tusler 49 New Yorker

i would tell you like this... I am new to this hobby myself and have been a car and aviation mech my whole life it seems. before you buy any car, pretend you need to do a engine freshen up and see how hard it is to locate all the engine parts, rings ,bearings,gaskets and so on, and see how much it would cost, or try to locate locking mechanism for the inside of the doors, springs, brakes, brake drums, windshield. just about anything you can imagine. I myself picked up a 1949 New Yorker and I have found engine parts to be very expensive, even though the initial purchase price of the car was very reasonable. for instance looking for a working exhaust manifold on ebay, there is one for $1450.00, guess I better not break mine. These are the things I would be looking at. hope it helps and it is fun regardless.

Keep an eye on this site also, they have some pretty fair deals sometimes

http://www.countryclassiccars.com/

Edited by Tusler 49 New Yorker (see edit history)
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I agree with the above comments but want to stress a very important point - join a club. Once you get to know people they will be glad to help you decide which car to buy. You'll also get helpful information on local cars are a good deal (and which shoud be avoided).

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Buy the nicest one you can afford in terms of paint and mechanics, you'll save money in the long run! Flacons are pretty cheap and very reliable... I use a 61 as my everyday car. You should be able to find a very nice 64-65 falcon in your budget and there is a large support group with good parts easy to find.

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i would tell you like this... I am new to this hobby myself and have been a car and aviation mech my whole life it seems. before you buy any car, pretend you need to do a engine freshen up and see how hard it is to locate all the engine parts, rings ,bearings,gaskets and so on, and see how much it would cost, or try to locate locking mechanism for the inside of the doors, springs, brakes, brake drums, windshield. just about anything you can imagine. I myself picked up a 1949 New Yorker and I have found engine parts to be very expensive, even though the initial purchase price of the car was very reasonable. for instance looking for a working exhaust manifold on ebay, there is one for $1450.00, guess I better not break mine. These are the things I would be looking at. hope it helps and it is fun regardless.

Keep an eye on this site also, they have some pretty fair deals sometimes

http://www.countryclassiccars.com/

Good point, for some reason Chrysler straight eight parts are rarer than say Packard straight eight and much rarer than Chrysler six.

If you had a Windsor, Saratoga, DeSoto or other six cylinder Chrysler product from 1937 - 54 (1972 in some Dodge trucks) parts would be a breeze.

I guess it was because Chrysler sold very few straight eights compared to six cylinder cars, while Packard specialized in straight eights and nearly all their cars had them.

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