What Happens If . . . ?

The issue of "parking by era" is not a new one, but the fervor for such a show field layout has passed the tipping point. It appears that many BCA members are casting their vote for BOD candidates on this issue alone, which is their respective decision.

If, after a few years of trying this new parking arrangement, there is a decrease in participation in the "un-restored"-type classes of vehicles? If owners of those vehicles liked it better when they were with like vehicles, rather than being parked next to a recently-restored vehicle with over-restored chrome trim, base coat/clear coat paints, fresh upholstery, and immaculate detailing? By my own experiences, no amount of paint glaze/wax applications, no amount of vinyl/rubber protectant applications, and/or no amount of interior cleanings can make that "well-preserved, but used" original car look nearly as well as the recently-restored car does. When parked with other like vehicles, the original car looks very good, but when parked near a fully-restored similar vehicle, not quite so good.

There has been a good bit of dialogue about meeting new friends, parking by friends, etc., but if the "trial parking" arrangement makes some owners feel out-classed (not in pride of their vehicle, but on cosmetic issues), they could well decline to participate in the show again. Some might comment that such a situation might motivate the original car's owner to fix their vehicle to more closely-match the restored vehicle's condition -- a valid point. The other side of things could be that the original vehicle's owner is happy with what they have and want to preserve it as it is, rather than restore it (even partially, but being more concerned with mechanical issues related to driving enjoyment and safety).

How shall the desirability of the trial-parking arrangement be judged? How many years shall it be given "to work as claimed"? If it doesn't work, what will be done to refine it? If it doesn't work, shall we return to the "default mode" of "parking by class" (as has been the historic way of doing things)? At this point in time, there is still time to get these things worked out, as a "backup plan".

Given the variability of the national meet venues, from year to year, shall we give the new parking plan 3 years or 5 years "to work"? To monitor participation in ALL BCA classes at these meets, also. In other words, this needs to be "by the numbers" approach to research rather than a more emotional or agenda-driven research project.

Regards,

Willis Bell 20811

Edited April 11, 2014 by NTX5467 (see edit history)

I like the new idea for the show field, and I agree completely: Let's pay attention to how people respond. I would imagine if folks were proud enough to bring their cars, they will not be too intimidated by the guy next to them with pricy paint and detailing. Let's run it up the flag pole, as they say, and count how many people salute. Certainly shows will vary in attendance, pending location, etc. But I think we will see easily if it is having an impact. And then revisit the issue in a few years...

I expressed that concern to those leading the Park by Era concept when my comments were solicited. That, plus the need for judges in Driven and Archival will need to cover much of the show field to find and judge those cars I think the survey will help the BOD for future consideration. But, you may be right and this may need to ne revisited in the future.

John

Mr. Bell and Mr. Scheib, I gotta admit to you both, I finished reading what you guys put down and I burst out laughing so hard that my sides hurt and there were tears streaming down my cheeks. Are you two serious? Are you for real? You two tell me if I got this figured out right. Let's give these people hollering what they want for a year or two and then we'll go back to the way things were in South Bend and it will be business as usual. A whole lot of us don't think so. One of my Buicks is a 1920 K-Series Model. This car has LESS than 5,000 documented miles on it since new. I am not in the least worried about the restored 1920's era vehicle parked next to me. This car is a history lesson in the here and now. Mr. Bell, your illustrations make about as much sense as a rubber crutch in a polio ward. Why don't you two just come out and admit that you are against ALL TOGETHER PARKING BY ERA and get it over with. It is this writers opinion that people would think more of you two if you will do. I'm sorry folks, but this is my club too and I certainly have the right to state my views on what I feel is wrong with it. Treating the owners of certain classes of cars in a disrespectful manner is just plain wrong! What part of that do you two not get?

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas America

That's It! Next show I can attend I'm bringing the rustiest, oldest, smokiest Buick I can find and I will Garun Gum Tee that the real down to earth Buick guys and gals will be crawling all over it. It will be a show stopper and everyone will be talking about it. And just for fun I will have it judged. You simply cannot argue with original rust. Dandy Dave!

Edited April 13, 2014 by Dandy Dave (see edit history)

I have to agree with Terry. I would much rather be embarrassed by parking next to a 400 point car than I would be parked like I was at South Bend. At least if I was parked next to cars of the era I was interested in, I might be able to socialize with someone with a common interest.

To be honest I will be hard pressed to take another car to Nationals until I'm confident things have changed. I would have been better off parking with the guests at the hotel. Admittedly I've been "assured" this was an accident and won't happen again and that there were mistakes. But then it was only after numerous posts on the forum and the threat of a letter to the editor of the Bugle that the Board would consider me enough of a nuisance to respond. In retrospect I should have gone ahead with the letter to the editor, but being I finally received a response I felt continuing would have justified there opinion that people complaining on the forum were just a bunch of whiners. I think many of the present board are determined to do things there way and don't give a s**t about the members. Albeit two members did contact me and offer apologies.

What a difference it was from the pleasant experience I had at Concord where I took my 1937.

I've tried to refrain from comment, but can't any longer. I understand and accept responsibility for my comments and will not be shocked if my post is deleted as being unacceptable. Treating members as second class citizens needs to end. We hopefully all share a love of old cars and specifically Buicks and should not alienate members just because they don't have deep enough pockets to restore a car to a 400 point status.

I understand and accept that my post may be deleted due to an unacceptable attitude. My attitude is what it is, so be it. I had to search archives from this forum as I had already deleted my pictures from the 2013 Nationals as they just raise my blood pressure.

Carl BCA #5538

Terry,

First, thank you for your passionate concern for his matter.

Rather than Mr. Scheib, my first name is John and I prefer that, although at 70+ I guess I have earned the Mister title. But feel free to address me as you see fit. I am sorry you interpret my comments as opposed to Parking by Era, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I respect your for sharing yours. I simply was pointing out that there are a number of things to consider, when organizing a National Meet parking area. Not to put words in his mouth, but I think Willis was trying to remind people of possible future concerns. And, I certainly do not think I insinuated you did not have a right to "state your views" has you seem to have indicated. In fact, I find that a bit discomforting and disturbing, and I do not wish to see such comments directed toward me continued.

Finally, I do not believe I have disrespected you, any BCA members and potential future members. Nor, am I sure how you reached that conclusion. I am anxious to see the results of the survey and this election so the BCA can move forward.

As you brought this up on the forum, rather than a PM to me, I felt this public response necessary. I hope this is the last communication necessary on this personal communication on a public forum.

John Scheib

If this "farmer" as I have been called by Dandy Dave Brennen is concerned about the 400 point vehicle parked next to my truck....I do not think so. I might learn something and I am sure we have more in common than the owner of a 90 Roadmaster parking next to me.

I see Willis' point, and know I felt just like that at the Centennial Meet. We parked our 56 in the back row of our class cause it was unrestored and , in my opinion, looked like trash compared to the restored cars surrounding us. But it was fortunate that the Meet was set up as All Together Parking by Era. One fellow came up to me and looked at the car then turned to me and said appreciatively, " My god, this is an unrestored car!" That one guy changed my outlook on my 56 in a positive way. This is one good reason to have All Together Parking by Era.

I can only state this, I have been to tons of shows, NOT just Buick, and have always been parked next to RAT RODS, $100,000. cars, you name it, and NEVER have I not had a great time, but then I'm a happy camper. My wife said recently, WHY ARE YOU ALWAYS TO HAPPY, I said because I found YOU. hehehe

I was not thrilled with South Bend, but I had a great time. I like most others went to see ALL the Buick's, and most of all to meet and talk to others.

I'm betting it will go over very well,

Dale in Indy

Edited April 13, 2014 by smithbrother (see edit history)

I guess it comes down to if you are proud of your car or not, or gives a rat's a## if anyone likes it or not. I have had high end show cars to the BCA Nationals to an original 57 Buick with rust holes in the front fenders and everything in between, and I have been proud of each an every one of them. The 57 sat between to high end restoration 58's and never once did I hear a put down. I will say this, I don't care what condition the car I take is in, but I will guarantee it will be standing tall and looking the best it can look. It doesn't bother me in the least if a car that is not restored or not of the highest restoration is beside me - what I can't stand beside me is someone that pulled it in for the day as a driver just to get a good spot for the trunk load of kids to use as a base station. Oh, and for those that drive your car to a national and want to put it on the showfield. At least clean your whitewalls. Edited April 13, 2014 by my3buicks (see edit history)

Oh, and for those that drive your car to a national and want to put it on the showfield. At least clean your whitewalls.

LOL

If this "farmer" as I have been called by Dandy Dave Brennen is concerned about the 400 point vehicle parked next to my truck....I do not think so. I might learn something and I am sure we have more in common than the owner of a 90 Roadmaster parking next to me.

Say..,Hic....I... ahhh, Resemble that remark.. hic... buuurrrppp. Dandy Dave!

Maybe that's my problem, I have blackwalls on my Buicks. Live and learn.

The Captian ehhh?

The Captian ehhh?

Ahhhrrr Matey. Are we having fun yet? Dandy Dave!

Treating the owners of certain classes of cars in a disrespectful manner is just plain wrong!

Mr. Wiegard, I strongly concur with this statement. EVERY participant in a BCA National Meet needs to have a great meet experience -- period. Whether it's in the car show activities, tours, swap meet, or other aspects of the total meet experience. IF such a great meet experience is not attained, then it should be brought to the attention of the Meet Planning Operatives so the situation can be addressed and remedied as best it can at that late date -- period. This is just good business sense!

When any national meet is planned, the total number of projected show entrants is reached (by whatever means!). From there, which class/era might get how many spaces is determined by the Meet Planning Operatives, not the BCA BOD. Knowing how many cars will need to be parked on the show field is one reason there should be a prior-to-show date entry cut-off date, such that any adjustments might be made prior to the show's first day . . . which can't be done if show date entries are allowed.

With a reasonably finite number of parking spaces for the show field, it could well be that somebody is not going to be happy with where they're directed to park. Whether the parking is "by class" or "by era", there's still just so many available spaces that need to be utilized as best they can. To me, it's this reason that "by era" parking might not be the "golden bullet" it might be perceived to be.

The monitoring system I proposed is what I consider "good quality control", performed in a numbers-based approach rather than an "emotional" approach of what people might perceive they are seeing. After all, it was these original-oriented vehicles the BCA was courting when they created those classes a while back. If "by era" parking might be motivating those owners to not participate in future meets, then the reason for non-participation needs to be discovered and noted.

Key thing to me, in this whole situation, is that it was the Meet Planning Operatives who (individually or collectively) determined what classes would park where, not the BOD. Be that as it may.

Mr. Wiegand, I am displeased that you found my comments about possible non-participation by original-oriented vehicles' owners who felt "out-classed" by restored vehicles "funny". Here's why . . .

In 1981, I purchased a '67 Chrysler Newport 2-dr hardtop, which was a new car trade-in on a 1981 Citation. That car was native to Kansas, but the owner's widow had relocated to Fort Worth after his death. Turbine Bronze with Pearl White bucket seat interior and matching vinyl top. 383-4bbl Later investigation revealed about 22K production for '67 Newport 2-dr hardtops, with the addition of the 300-style bucket seats and 383-4bbl options obviously dropping the total productions numbers significantly. 83K miles

Over time, I got the car looking as good as I could. One Wen orbital buffer, one Wen orbital buffer warranty replacement, Meguiars compound, glazes, non-cleaner wax. Interior cleaner. Vinyl top cleaning and protectant-o-rizing. A set of NOS BFG Advantage T/As P245/70R-14 whitewalls (an exact maatch for H70-14s, from back then), from Corky Coker himself. Underhood detailing. Incognito mechanical upgrades. Plus other little things as they needed attention.

Our Mopar club would get together to go to cruises on weekends. I had some good times, especially when one guy was amazed at how long the quarter panels were, for example. The look on his face as he followed them from the rear of the door to the rear bumper was priceless!

But when we went to local events, I started parking in-line with my associates. I'd raise the hood, proud of how nice and original everything was, plus the dual snorkle air cleaner! Only thing was it only got a "glance" as everybody kept walking toward the 440 Challenger, Super Bee, Hemi 'Cuda, etc. All of the work I'd done didn't register with them as they were more enthralled with the multi-carb factory hot rods (also correct vehicles). I showed the car at a few indoor shows, in a club display, with better results. But for the weekend crowd, it was not worth my time and effort to get the car out of the storage building just do drive it and then for it be (basically) ignored. Not that I was not proud of it, just that many others saw it as "grand ma's car", "boat", rather than "higher-performance" entry-level sporty luxury. Just depends upon who's looking at it, as the post about Flint 2003 mentions.

Perhaps I'm looking at my situation in a cost-benefit analysis orientation, but unless I suspect there might be somebody who'll appreciate what they're seeing, I felt I was better served by leaving the car in the storage building. And THAT, Mr. Wiegand is why I feel the "disrespecting" treatment can cut both ways, which can be a variable situation with respect to the particular owner's orientations.

At one of the local indoor shows, our Mopar group sought to poke fun at the "gas, oil, water" display containers, for which extra points were awarded. I got a 5 gallon Phillips 66 Racing Fuel container (empty), a Chrysler antifreeze/coolant gallon container (empty), and an empty Castrol GTX oil bottle. Others followed suit in their own way. Not everybody understood what we were doing, but a few did, which was amusing! Still didn't add to our trophy cache, though.

Personally, I like the existing "by class" parking arrangement, BUT I'm not opposed to other possibilities, provided the show field looks worthy of a national-level event AND other side-activities can be accomplished in the same timely manner as in the past (i.e., finding vehicles for judging), even it takes more efforts by those involved. In other words, things have to work well and meet current benchmark standards, regardless of how many "Relax, it'll be fine" assurances I might see.

Due to current contracts, it might be 5 years before any good data can be assembled to see how things have worked, or didn't work. This is why I proposed the monitoring system activity for class participation. If the "by era" parking might run-off participants the BCA courted several years ago, that's not good

Just to clarify a few things . . .

Respectfully,

Willis Bell 20811

Here's a "What Happens If" scenario for ya. What if enough members get sick and tired of reading all this grandstanding, mud slinging, reading wrongly between the lines, jumping to conclusions, name calling, personal attacks and just down right rude behavior as has been displayed by several members lately and decide they don't want to be a part of it anymore and give up on the BCA all together. Not much need for a parking plan if there's no cars to park, right?

I fully appreciate everyone's opinions regarding show car parking at nationals and understand many of you are passionate about seeing a change that you think might be better. But there is absolutely no benefit from letting ones emotions get away from them and posting such mean and hurtful words as have been posted lately.

Terry, while you make some good points and I respect your opinions, I think you need to go back and re-read the first two posts this time. I feel that Willis was simply being the devils advocate and was merely seeking to engage others in a discussion in order to question and test the quality of the proposed change and identify weaknesses in its structure now or in the future. This type of discussion is good and needed but you met it with suspicion and total negativity and resorted to blasting away at both Willis and John. This in my opinion is impolite and inappropriate for this forum. I also fully agree with Johns response to you. I as moderator have no problem with you or anyone else stating your opinions and taking a stance on such issues as this but I do have a problem with the way they have been so rudely conveyed lately. You are not the only one guilty of this Terry, hence my saying this publicly versus through a PM. It is very difficult for me to delete such posts, as so often, in amongst the bad is a lot of good points and ideas sometimes. But if it continues I will as someone has suggested that I should, be looking for that Delete button. So please, don't make me have to go find that "Delete Button".

Edited April 13, 2014 by MrEarl (see edit history)

OK John, I will respect your wish in how you want to be addressed, I have some thoughts on what you had to say about my last post. We ARE going to stay on the topic of National Meet parking, but you need to be enlightened on a few things in your response to me. First, I do not appreciate your twisting my thoughts and words around. I DID NOT SAY YOU SHOWED ANY DISRESPECT TOWARD ME. Go back and reread what I wrote - maybe reread it again. Those words are just not there. I did not say anything to you or Mr. Bell that I should be ashamed of or should apologize for. I think it is becoming painfully clear that what I am saying to the readers on this forum is really hitting close to home. I am so close to that 70 year old birthday that I can almost see it. I have been playing with old Buicks for almost 52 years now. My remarks to you and Mr. Bell were made the way they were because in my opinion I believe that you two are in lock step with what this current BOD is dishing out to the membership. I challenge both of you to really read what the folks are saying here on this forum. Read what the gentleman named Carl wrote - it doesn't sound like he is a real happy camper. In regard to what Mr. Bell had to say I must admit I couldn't make heads or tails out of what he said other than the fact that he said he owned a Chrysler that folks weren't much interested in looking at. No disrespect intended here, but how does that relate to the issue at hand with the BCA? I love Dandy Dave's outlook on this. Dave you can bring your John Deere and park it next to my Buick any day of the week. Just one more thing I want to say about this fine mess we have here. There is an old saying that goes something like this - 'If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen'. I will say this again and will keep saying it - 'This is my club and I don't like the way it is being run'. I was taught pretty early in life that if you didn't stand for something you'd fall for anything. I ain't goin' for this crap that the BOD is trying to cram down everybody's throats and the readers of this forum shouldn't either.

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas America

Terry, other than grandstanding on the forum and being rude to well respected members (and for me to say that as I am often guilty of that, trust me, rude is the word of the day) what else are you doing to get your opinions across if this is YOUR club? Letters & calls to the BOD's? Running for a position on the board? etc etc

Terry is correct I was not a happy camper about my South Bend experience. However this is a club of individuals who join together for the camaraderie and enjoyment of the marque. Maybe we should allow any "what if's" play out on there own.

I applaud the board for creating the poll and just hope as members we are allowed to see the results. I would also like to thank the board members for there time and efforts that they have donated to the club.

Carl

I have only attended two reunions, Flint and South Bend. As an owner of Reattas I pretty much hung out there as that is my primary interest. I did not have my car judged as that has no interest for me. I was there for making friends and building relationships. I think most attendees want to be with like cars no matter how nice or "driven" they may be. After we "catch up" with old friends or make new friends it's off to look at all the other cars on display.

I think having all like cars together is the right way to go as it gives the enthusiasist the opportunity to see what he can do to improve his ride. It also makes it easier for people coming to see the collection of Buicks to walk around looking at them.

I personally think that we should consider starting with the oldest Buick first so one can see the evolution of the Buick from the early 1900's to today. [Regardless of points] And that would put the Reatta "last" which is OK by me...

I personally think that we should consider starting with the oldest Buick first so one can see the evolution of the Buick from the early 1900's to today. [Regardless of points] And that would put the Reatta "last" which is OK by me...

Sounds like a plan. And who is to say everyone is going to start looking from oldest to newest.? Some walk from newest to oldest and that makes you First. Dandy Dave!

I ain't goin' for this crap that the BOD is trying to cram down everybody's throats and the readers of this forum shouldn't either.

Terry, what crap are you talking about ? Keeping the club finiacally viable, sending you a Bugle every month along with a roster, putting on a National every year ?

Granted South Bend was not as good as it could have been and Portland hopefully be better as we have learned lessons. But you paint with a broad brush to get your views and opinions known.

Every BOD member is a volunteer who works for the best of the club. They do it to keep the club functioning and to keep the members interests in mind. Keep this in mind as you talk about conspiracies and agenda's.

One last question, would you rather have meet like South Bend where the parking was not optimal or NO meet at all ?

To be brutally honest... the only thing I cared about at South Bend was the heat and humidity. We get both in Wisconsin, but man it seemed worse there!

Everything evolves !!!!! The BCA in its infancy was a group of CAR people who drove and enjoyed their Buicks. It is now ruled by a group that see Buicks as a work of art, and they judge them as such.

It really is a SHAME thet the old BCA is not available anymore. !!!!

Terry,

You addressed Post 4, to Willis and myself, but on the forum. The last two sentences suggest someone disrespected your opinion "What part of that..." continues that theme, directed to the two of us, but again to be viewed by anyone. So, that is where I noted the insinuation that I am part of 'a group that wants separate parking'. That is all I am saying. And I certainly did not say you, or anyone, had no right to express your views, which is also in the post.

John

South Bend really should be tossed out of any equation, it was unlike any Buick National before, and hopefully unlike any national in the future. It was a lesson. One thing it showed us is one of the huge pitfalls of a national entity hosting the nationals rather than a hands on local chapter doing it.

Edited April 13, 2014 by my3buicks (see edit history)

John mentioned he was over 70. I am close to 66. And you aren't going to find a lot of Buick Club members a whole lot younger. We are at the ages where intolerance and obsession become the order of the day. Although I think it is due to natural aging of the brain, it sure is easy to get pissed off about things one cares about.

My chapter put on the 1989 and 2005 Nationals in Batavia, New York. It was pretty much the same members I met at the first meeting I attended in 1979. That's a span of over 20 years and I was the "kid" in the bunch when I joined.

Putting on the Nationals is at least 2 years of work for the host chapters. The second time we did it we lost long time members and stressed relations through the Chapter. I have been reading variations of this topic and critiques of events with very little recognition of how hard it is to put one of these events together and the internal stress for the chapter. On top of the work we made significant money and that almost wiped the chapter out arguing over its dispersion.

Sometime later I was at a regional meet on the last day. Standing by the Niagara River, I asked one of the host members if they made any money. He said they did and I told him to throw it in the river and save problems.

I haven't been to a National meet in a few years. The last two were in conflict with a stroke and heart attack. South Bend would have been nice but my left eye was bothering me and I was a little aprehensive about the affect of a long monotonous drive on the mixed up brain cells. If I had taken my '86 convertible I would have registered in the model year class. I wasn't looking for a trophy so a 50 point hit for the roof being cut off was mute.

I like to go to friends places and hang out. I have three kinds of friends; friends with cars in the same condition as mine, friends with cars better than mine, and friends with cars needing more work than mine. I don't recall that ever being a topic when we get together. Maybe I wasn't paying attention.

Bernie

Edited April 13, 2014 by 60FlatTop (see edit history)

Terry, One last question for you …. When was the last time you went to a meet ?

I did not find you in the registered people at South Bend yet you talk like you have first hand knowledge of the situation.

Keep the cars in classes by year (like 1940-42 etc) do not place them all over the lot it will be hard on the judges for judging and you will not get judges to judge the cars.

Keep the classes like drivers class and hpof all together not in with the year class. That what I think it should be. I am a member of other clubs and that what they do and it is easy to judge the cars.

Al Storrs

Al. Judged cars are basically together. The argument is whether to have the unjudged cars together with the judged.

I like to go to friends places and hang out. I have three kinds of friends; friends with cars in the same condition as mine, friends with cars better than mine, and friends with cars needing more work than mine. I don't recall that ever being a topic when we get together. Maybe I wasn't paying attention.

Bernie

My group of friends are also mixed. They own rusted out Tin Lizzies, to Supreme Pierce Arrow's, and everything in between. I just like it all. Specially if I get to play with it.

I have only attended two reunions, Flint and South Bend. As an owner of Reattas I pretty much hung out there as that is my primary interest. I did not have my car judged as that has no interest for me. I was there for making friends and building relationships. I think most attendees want to be with like cars no matter how nice or "driven" they may be. After we "catch up" with old friends or make new friends it's off to look at all the other cars on display.

I think having all like cars together is the right way to go as it gives the enthusiasist the opportunity to see what he can do to improve his ride. It also makes it easier for people coming to see the collection of Buicks to walk around looking at them.

I personally think that we should consider starting with the oldest Buick first so one can see the evolution of the Buick from the early 1900's to today. [Regardless of points] And that would put the Reatta "last" which is OK by me...

Well said DAVE'S89! Since I am primarily a prewar Buick person, I am glad to see a Reatta person feels as I do.

If owners of those vehicles liked it better when they were with like vehicles, rather than being parked next to a recently-restored vehicle with over-restored chrome trim, …." "... but if the "trial parking" arrangement makes some owners feel out-classed (not in pride of their vehicle, but on cosmetic issues), they could well decline to participate in the show again."

Willis Bell 20811

Willis: 21 Nationals driven to in a pretty original 1929 Buick and have always wanted to be with my era cars. It is like being sent to purgatory when I have to go to the back of the show field into Class "U" out past the Reattas.

And, at South Bend, 8 or 9 Pre-War Archival cars wanted to be with 400 point cars and other cars of their era.

Just saying …..

Bill McLaughlin

BCA 7160

1929 Mclaughlin Buick Roadster

Supporter of The All-Together-Parking-By Era Movement

It is also conceivable that two restored cars are parked together and the better of the two will dismay the owner of the "lesser" quality car. People can get upset about anything.

I actually had that happen in Batavia. I parked my freshly painted car in the row of 55's. It was a beautiful sight for a (36 at the time) "kid" like me who never saw fifteen 55 Buicks parked in a row, glistening in the sun. The gentleman next to me moved his car away from mine during judging, because he said my car made his car look like garbage. I hadn't noticed. He had a fresh restoration, as well and his car looked good to me. Oh well.

Oh yeah, the next year after driving to Minnesota, my Senior car was parked out in the sticks away from the other 55's. I met some great owners of other Buicks, but I did not have the same experience. I didn't enjoy it the same way that I did the year before, and my thought was "wouldn't a Driven Senior car be encouraging for other 55 owners to show them that it wasn't a Trailer Queen?"

I will once again be driving a car an extremely long distance to Portland this year, and am very happy to display it with the other '55s.

Thank those who are at least trying it out this year.

The Old Guy used a word I was planning on - evolution. I wasn't around from the beginning, but I'd put money down that the club isn't the same as it was in 1966 nor are recent national meets the same as the first meets.

I think a part of the evolution is the relatively recent creation of some new divisions such as the Pre-War Division. This division was created in part to emphasis touring with the older Buick automobiles. So, when we have the folks who are interested in driving the old iron wanting to park alongside the judged cars, I think there is a validity to the point. One thing is that as the cars and people age, we have fewer with the knowledge of the truly old Buicks. Wouldn't we rather be happier seeing them together rather than a couple pre-1915 (just to pick a year) in one location in the 400 point class and a couple in the display or driven classes?

Wouldn't South Bend have had an interesting display if we'd had the pace cars all together? Instead, they were of different judged classes and the driven class, so only a few folks got to see when three or four were parked in close proximity to each other.

Yes, Willis makes a good point - if we go this route, then it will need to be evaluated. Isn't just about everything about the National something that should be evaluated for lessons learned and continuing with good ideas that worked well? I'm not sure the parking needs to be singled out necessarily. It shouldn't be about how many Buicks come out in a given class, but how many Buicks in total are on the show field and how many attendees are there. Of course, some allowance needs to be made for location (i.e. east coast meets draw fewer folks from the west coast and vice versa) - distance is a factor for some members.

I've said it before - in Bellevue in 2007, we had the cars parked by year. I judged class U, the archival class. I believe we had two teams that year - ours started from the oldest and worked their way up into the '50s or '60s while the other team judged the newer archival cars. Thus we had to traverse the better part of the show field. Big deal. It was fun getting a better opportunity to see the show field before the cars got hidden away. A good judging team captain is going to go out and identify their cars for their team ahead of time too. Now, when it comes to 400 point judging, the classes are smaller in terms of years. When there are 5-10 cars in a class that span perhaps a 10 year era of Buick, how much of an issue will it be if Driven and Display class Buicks are interspersed among them? It isn't like the plan is to allow for a helter-skelter parking arrangement where they could be anywhere on the show field.

In my opinion anyone complaining about this from a judging perspective is either raising a red herring, wants to make excuses, or is simply opposed to change.

Changing tacks a bit, in South Bend, I had a pretty interesting vehicle there, the 1923 combination passenger and express replica that was in the Display class. I'm betting a lot more people enjoyed it once the judging was over and we drove it over to be with other pre-war Buicks. It attracted attention and a bit of a crowd when Brian started puttering with it. As an owner, I was having fun. My teenaged children were enjoying it. I got to enjoy my Buick and talk with a lot of other folks who could offer me some advice about it or wanted to reminisce or ask questions about it. Frankly, when in the display lot, even I ignored it. I'm certain a lot more people got to enjoy it when it was parked among similar era Buicks. Isn't enjoying the Buicks what this is about?

Now to throw a wrench into all this, have the Buicks Our Way Division been consulted on their opinion on this? Modified Buicks add a different element to the mix and I can better see the arguments with their cars both pro and con with parking by year / era.

Anyway, I've had my rant for the month now so I should probably click the button that stops me typing any more.

I was thinking about the mention of incidents where people have moved their car to another location during the show. I did that last year at a local meet when a very annoying 60ish couple in a street rodded pickup parked next to me at a local show. Believe me, if they thought I moved my car away because I didn't want to be next to a street rod, they really have the wrong idea!

So if you are at a formal meet or a cruise in this year and your wife has just finished setting up something that looks like a Bedouin nomad camp or you have superseded the judging process by pointing out every conceivable flaw in the neighboring car; and the driver quietly gets into his car and moves away, don't, for a moment think they are being disrespectful. They are probably opening the spot so another car share your company.

Bernie

Mexican conjunto music (4 versions simultaneously); Changos all over my car; greetings including pendejo ...it doesn't take much to get me to move away from the lowriders.

I think the one thing that we can all agree on is the BCA management has a real fine mess on their hands here. I think Derek Thille hit it right on the head - the older folks don't want changes. Keith Bleakney said I was rude, somebody else said I was grandstanding, and another person couldn't understand why I thought they were funny. Keith, I DID write to the BOD (every one of them) and told them that I did not like the way this club is being run. As a dues paying member I can do that. And you said something about me running for the BOD. You gotta be jokin' man! I wouldn't last three minutes on the first phone call. I have been criticized for standing up and saying it is wrong to treat folks with cars in certain classes in an exclusionary manner. I asked two other people on this forum what it was that they did not understand about that and you would have thought world war three was starting. I understand that the BCA was caught up in events last summer that they had no control over. I think we all understand that NOW. We have a candidate running for the board who wants communication from the board to the members. Where was that communication last summer? An explanation in the Bugle would have gone a long way toward diffusing the hurt feelings of a lot of members. I think a lot of the folks hollering here on this forum are fed up with the heavy handed tactics that were used last summer. There I go again - offending someone. That someone knows exactly who they are and I have this to say to those offended - call my wife - she will be the first to tell you that I am an equal opportunity offender. We are restoring an old house and I have better things to do than set here in front of this computer and argue with people who do not understand that a BCA National Meet is for the members and not the judges. I have made some wonderful friends over the years in the antique automobile clubs that we belong to and those friendships I treasure greatly. I want to add here that Bill Stoneberg and I visited privately about my posting that referred to the 'crap' that the BOD is involved with. That conversation was inappropriate for this public forum and I think we both came away with the feeling that we each made a new friend. I want to also add a few other thoughts here. I have attended a few national meets since 1990 and the upcoming meet that I really want to attend is the 2015 meet in Springfield, Missouri. We want to bring our 1916 D-45. This car will be 100 years old during that summer and will have been in my family starting on 53 years. I want to go on the record right here and now and say that if I am told that I cannot set that car down along side the other teens and twenties cars at the meet, I will load it back into the trailer and head to the house. Then you guys can fight it out to your heart's content.

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas America

Here's a "What Happens If" scenario for ya. What if enough members get sick and tired of reading all this grandstanding, mud slinging, reading wrongly between the lines, jumping to conclusions, name calling, personal attacks and just down right rude behavior as has been displayed by several members lately and decide they don't want to be a part of it anymore and give up on the BCA all together. Not much need for a parking plan if there's no cars to park, right?

I fully appreciate everyone's opinions regarding show car parking at nationals and understand many of you are passionate about seeing a change that you think might be better. But there is absolutely no benefit from letting ones emotions get away from them and posting such mean and hurtful words as have been posted lately.

Terry, while you make some good points and I respect your opinions, I think you need to go back and re-read the first two posts this time. I feel that Willis was simply being the devils advocate and was merely seeking to engage others in a discussion in order to question and test the quality of the proposed change and identify weaknesses in its structure now or in the future. This type of discussion is good and needed but you met it with suspicion and total negativity and resorted to blasting away at both Willis and John. This in my opinion is impolite and inappropriate for this forum. I also fully agree with Johns response to you. I as moderator have no problem with you or anyone else stating your opinions and taking a stance on such issues as this but I do have a problem with the way they have been so rudely conveyed lately. You are not the only one guilty of this Terry, hence my saying this publicly versus through a PM. It is very difficult for me to delete such posts, as so often, in amongst the bad is a lot of good points and ideas sometimes. But if it continues I will as someone has suggested that I should, be looking for that Delete button. So please, don't make me have to go find that "Delete Button".

EXACTLY! This sort of club "politics" exists in far too many clubs. I've never had any car (not just my Buick) or motorcycle participate in club organized events. It's the same stuff everywhere. I go to casual cruise ins, and a thing we call cars and coffee.....just people meeting, with or without their old cars/bikes to talk about a common interest. This club stuff is too darn stressful. I have work and family if I want stress. We all die in the end, can't we just enjoy the ride, no matter where we park?

Side note, I plan to keep my BCA memebership as I like have the sticker, the bugle, and supporting the hobby; however I doubt my car will find its way to a single show. And again, not just due to this issue posed here, but because I see that all "clubs" behave the same.