Pavement

Did anyone else notice that on the older period photos of cars parked on or near pavement that the pavement is always smooth and intact. It can't always be new pavement, since in some there is an oily streak in the middle of the lane (from Buicks of course ).

Willie

As with many things made years ago, it was probably a higher quality and the municipalities probably did a better job of maintaining the roads. Politicians had not yet taken the money designated for road maintenance and used it to pay for their pet projects and then raising the taxes to pay for better roads.

Or I could be wrong.

There was also less traffic and fewer heavy trucks. I don't believe that they used as much salt on the roads years ago. All of these things add up.

The OIL dropping would be from Harley Davidson motor cycles, hehehe.

Dale in Indy

There was also less traffic and fewer heavy trucks. I don't believe that they used as much salt on the roads years ago. All of these things add up.

+1 on this. First the pavement was relatively new, probably laid in the preceding 5 or 10 years as wide spread paving efforts only really started after WW1. Second, wear and tear from vehicles goes up dramatically with weight and speed. In the 20s and 30s speeds were slower and GVW were lower too.

As near as I can tell salting the roads did not start in ernest until the '50s or '60s. Not sure how much damage that does to various pavement types, but freeze thaw cycles certainly are bad and in that regard I suspect that lots has been learned about sub grade drainage so modern roads could be better in that regard.

Edit: Also they were willing to have higher taxes to cover the need. Apparently federal gas tax was around 1.5 cents/gal in 1933: http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/incometaxandtheirs/a/Federal-Gas-Tax-Rates.htm That works out to an inflation adjusted 36 cents/gal per http://www.usinflationcalculator.com compared to the current federal rate of 18.4 cents/gal. Basically federal gas tax was about twice as high then compared to now.

My father worked for the Louisiana Department of Highways in the 1930's. Later in life, I asked him why the roads were so bad in Louisiana.

It's the formula they use for the road, he replied....allocated funds were divided 50% for labor, 50% for materials, and 50% for politicians.....

David,

You really summed it up with that one!

Dale is still laughing.......remember, her great aunt was Ms. Blanche's sister, and Blanche's husband Earl (and his brother Huey) had quite the reputation for helping Louisiana (and themselves)

I live to amuse you and Dale!

Now, back to the Pea Patch Farm....

Other than the fact the resolution of the photographic film, in earlier times, is not what we now have (or even 20 years ago), I also suspect there was more "pride of workmanship" in what the paving crews might have done back then. Material specs were probably more robust, too. Everybody was proud of their new roads and did what they could (during construction) to ensure such pride could endure.

It is interesting how that US Highways, built to the same set of specs, can vary from state to state! Interstates included.

Regards,

NTX5467

We did a job in Jamestown, New York a couple of years ago. The streets were originally paved in brick by Scandinavian immigrants. Some time later the bricks were paved over with asphalt. The asphalt deteriorated so the stripped the streets back to the bricks, installed with pride. Pretty nice streets.

Here in New York there were billboards with a former governor's name stating he was "rebuilding New York". They wouldn't have had to rebuild if they had maintained them. Take a look at the front steps of the capitol building; looks like there are filming and "after Apocalypse" movie.

Bernie

For those technical types, this is a good read... http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/pavement/concrete/pubs/07030/

In the 1980's, I lived on a hand-laid brick street in Alexandria, Louisiana.

At the time, I also owned a 1909 Sears Autobuggy, high wheeler, with hard rubber "tires" on rims.

I'll let you figure out the punchline.....

Michigan allows 160,000 pound trucks on the roads. Want to know which roads are all torn up? The politicians say that with enough axles on a truck it does not matter because of the weight distribution. All in favor of that position, raise your hand.

In the 1980's, I lived on a hand-laid brick street in Alexandria, Louisiana.

At the time, I also owned a 1909 Sears Autobuggy, high wheeler, with hard rubber "tires" on rims.

I'll let you figure out the punchline.....

Teeth Rattler.... Dandy Dave!

A lot of old vehicles and machinery were road oilers. And we all know what dripping gasoline does to black top also... Dandy Dave!

Mark's report from the DOT pretty much wraps up my experience with New York State road history. I have been driving on them for almost 50 years.

The original highway system was sectioned concrete, laid down from the 1920 to 1950's.

My Great Uncle, who was a chassis engineer at Chrysler in the '20's and '30's told me the 138 inch wheelbases were designed so luxury cars hit the tar strips at the same time (11.5') so only one thump went through the car instead of the "thump, thump" one feels now.

My historic routes (not roots) are Rte. 31 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_State_Route_31 and Rte. 104 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_State_Route_104. Both were about 40 years old and still sectional concrete when I started driving them in 1965. Between '65 and '75 they were asphalt and macadam coated and widened.

I was discharged from the Navy in Charleston, SC in 1971 and remember crossing the NYS border. That's where the road was widened buy 2 feet on each side with an inferior cracking and rough add-on. Over the last 40 years that syndrome has earmarked New York State roads. You always know when you are getting close to home.

Driving a Buick helps smooth the roads out a lot. My wife and I like driving some of these regional routes end to end. Rte. 104 is really neat, as is Rte. 96, 36, 14, 15, and 19; great day trips with good diners and restaurants.

This summer I would like to run the length of Rte 219 from New York to Virginia, mostly a secondary road.

To the original question, the roads aren't the same quality as the 1930's concrete.

Bernie

With the heavy equiptment of today, I think they can do a better job of prep for pavement on any new road. On existing old roads too often they just add more layers to a poor base-they know better, but a quick band aid rather than the higher cost. Occasionally, all is dug out and it's done right. It seems that some of todays asphalt is short of oils/tar to hold up long term. Here in Minnesota, I've noticed that some shale and other porous rock ends up in the concrete mix-this freezes/expands and 'pops' in winter.

Mark's report from the DOT pretty much wraps up my experience with New York State road history. I have been driving on them for almost 50 years.

The original highway system was sectioned concrete, laid down from the 1920 to 1950's.

My Great Uncle, who was a chassis engineer at Chrysler in the '20's and '30's told me the 138 inch wheelbases were designed so luxury cars hit the tar strips at the same time (11.5') so only one thump went through the car instead of the "thump, thump" one feels now.

My historic routes (not roots) are Rte. 31 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_State_Route_31 and Rte. 104 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_State_Route_104. Both were about 40 years old and still sectional concrete when I started driving them in 1965. Between '65 and '75 they were asphalt and macadam coated and widened.

I was discharged from the Navy in Charleston, SC in 1971 and remember crossing the NYS border. That's where the road was widened buy 2 feet on each side with an inferior cracking and rough add-on. Over the last 40 years that syndrome has earmarked New York State roads. You always know when you are getting close to home.

Driving a Buick helps smooth the roads out a lot. My wife and I like driving some of these regional routes end to end. Rte. 104 is really neat, as is Rte. 96, 36, 14, 15, and 19; great day trips with good diners and restaurants.

This summer I would like to run the length of Rte 219 from New York to Virginia, mostly a secondary road.

To the original question, the roads aren't the same quality as the 1930's concrete.

Bernie

Yes sir Bernie, When I was a kid the two roads into town were still concrete. NY Rt. 23 and NY Rt. 22 crossed in Hillsdale, NY. Both are blacktopped now some 40 + years later but I still hear that bump, bump, bump, echoing of my dads 1966 International Pickup while riding to Rattle Snake Jim Ellis's Truck Stop a mile south of town. Dandy Dave!

I don't know about other areas but up until about 20 years ago in DC the asphalt formula the city required from paving contractors had a higher proportion of sand and less gravel. This made it very smooth and easy on metal tired carriages/wagons and solid rubber tired vehicles. It was also expensive and a waste of money because it was no longer necessary. It also deformed easily in the heat and the stop line would get all messed up from cars and trucks accelerating from a light.

Dave