Buick 264-322 questions

Hey guys I am wondering if I can make my 264 into a 322 what will interchange? What type of motor work needs to be done?

The 264 has the same stroke as the 322, but the bore is much smaller-- 3.625" in the 264 versus 4.00" in the 322. It's a different block. You wouldn't be able to bore the 264 block out that much.

Good info wheelnut. I personally have never driven a 322 buick on the road, and have been mostly satisfied with my 264s. I am excited to see what adding the intake and 4bbl from a 322 will do to the 264 though!

Hey 38 where are you? If you are near Minnesota, I have a couple 322 that need full rebuilds that I'm never gonna use.

I am in New York but I am willing to pay for shipping if you can ship

If you can find a 322 to rebuild, do that...'there is no replacement for displacement'. If you have a good running 264, add the 4-barrel and dual exhaust AND replace the rear gears from 3.6 (std with dynaflow) to 3.9 (std with manual tranny) or higher and you will outrun a 322!

Willie

to do true dual exhaust it'd hang under the frame though.... you can't get a pipe through the driver's side with the brake cylinder in the way...or can you?

Good suggestions guys, I was thinking the same thing about the exhaust. My prob with using the 264 is its tired and I want to do a rebuild but I can rebuild a 322 for a lot cheaper and I am upping the cubes.

I agree! If you're sinking in the cash to rebuild, then rebuild the bigger engine

An important question is how are you going to use the engine?

If you plan to use in a 40 series Buick it wont work unless you do a heck of a lot of other work

I am going to be using it in a 40 series buick why wouldn't it work?

An important question is how are you going to use the engine?

If you plan to use in a 40 series Buick it wont work unless you do a heck of a lot of other work

Don, can you please clarify what wont work?

The Series 40 and series 60 were essentially the same car except for the 322 in the century...........as far as I know the 322 should bolt straight into the series 40............calling on the great Willie

Yes Don please clarify I don't want to make a 5000 dollar mistake

Incorrect.

322 will bolt directly with no alterations necessary if you use a two barrel intake. If you use a four barrel intake, you will need to bend a new choke tube and change out your accelerator linkage.

If you have already built and installed an engine, these two tasks shouldn't be a big deal

The bigger engine is much longer than the 40.also the 40 and 60 series are NOT the same!

Th 60's have a longer wheelbase and front end to accompdate the longer engine. The 60 transmission is much larger than the 40 - it is the same as the Roadmaster.

Check the manual, the diameter of the driveshaft is different too.

Measure, measure, measure!

Don

The bigger engine is much longer than the 40.also the 40 and 60 series are NOT the same!

Th 60's have a longer wheelbase and front end to accompdate the longer engine. The 60 transmission is much larger than the 40 - it is the same as the Roadmaster.

Check the manual, the diameter of the driveshaft is different too.

Measure, measure, measure!

Don

Don, we are talking about 53-56 V-8 engines here...there ain't no external dimensional differences! Earlier straight 8's...yes.

Willie

OK, i thought you were talking about the straight 8

I stand corrected

Ok thank god we got all that cleared up.

This is what I love about this forum. I was sure I knew the answer too, and I was right. I didn't reply because I thought, well maybe I can learn something here. The best part is that everyone was polite about it. Nobody jumped on Don because of his differing opinion. They just asked him to clarify his position. And we had a happy ending. ..........maybe that wasn't the right choice of words.

Phrasing.

LOL

So what has to be done with the accel linkage?

The thing I was curious about when this came up on your other thread was the change from '55 to '56 in the exhaust & how that might affect putting a '56 engine into a '55. The '55 has the brake master where the exhaust went in '56. Here's some photos:

This one shows the '55 where the left exhaust crosses to the right side around the front of the engine to meet up in a Y on the right side, and is a single pipe to the rear.

This one shows the '56, where the left side exhaust goes to the rear on the left side.

To use the '56 in the '55, could you simply use the '55 exhaust manifolds & pipes, or does the '55 cross-over pipe then get into something else on the '56 engine. If you get a '56 engine with exhaust manifolds, do you then have another search project to get '55 manifolds...

Hey Eric, I might be missing what your saying here but I have the manifolds from the 264 and the exhaust pipes still bolted in the car. Are you saying the brake master on a 56 buick was on the pass side?? I would imagine the manifolds from my 55 264 should bolt onto a 56 322 but I'm not sure. Someone with more experience please chime in at anytime....

Nearly everything from a 264 will bolt to the 322...exceptions are the flywheel/flexplate and the front pulley/balancer due to different balance of these components.

Thanks oldtank, so the accel linkages are all the same? No changes??

Thanks oldtank, so the accel linkages are all the same? No changes??

Gonna have to ask Mike (buick5563) since he has some examples of each. It may just be an adjustment in the rod like I did when I changed one of mine from a Rochester to Carter carb.

I was just wondering, I guess I will cross that road when I get there. Don't want to overload myself with to much information lol I'll end up forgetting.....

The two barrel linkage (at least the one I have) is an inch too short. I had to look for a long time for the longer one. If you buy a four barrel carb and manifold, make sure you get the linkage also (just in case).

Oh yeah,

I have seen two 55's up on a lift that had dual exhausts installed. One of em was just routed under the drivers side frame (looked crappy), and the other one had the frame butchered to go through (similar to the passenger side hole). This looked not only crappy, but unsafe since it was just a big hole torched out. I didn't take pics of either one because I didn't like the solutions. If you can figure out a better way, please post pics...

The only thing I can think of would be to run the L/S down past the starter and dump after the front tire and the same on the R/S

Willie, can you expand further on the balance issues of the front pulley and flywheel please. I hear they are balanced "externally" , what exactly does that mean ?

Can I retrofit a manual shift flywheel from another type of engine ?

I haven't looked that close into a '56, though there's one that shows up at the cruise night I'm at - so I probably have a photo showing exactly what the brake situation is for '56. But my overall thought is - the '55 brake master is down under & behind the driver's foot. Thus they routed the left-side exhaust forward of the oil pan, over to the right side, where it joins the right side exhaust with a "Y" under the cast manifold on the engine, to give one exhaust down the right side of the car.

For '56, I thought they went to an over-hung brake pedal, which would put the brake master high on the left side of the firewall, leaving room for the exhaust to pass below on the left side. In that artist's rendering of a '56 engine that I posted, you can see the left side exhaust manifold has the exit to the rear, down the left side. This would put the next pipe back on a collision course with the '55 brake master.

So, either the brake master has to go, or the '56 engine needs a '55 right-side exhaust. I just don't know if '55 manifolds would bolt up to a '56 engine. The answer is probably yes, because why would they change the engine block from 1 year to the next. But if you get a '56 engine, that means a search for '55 manifolds.

My '55 has a SBC, not the original Buick engine. So I can't look around in there for much in the way of clues. For the SBC, they routed the left side exhaust pipe under the back end of the oil pan to achieve the cross-over to the right-side exhaust to avoid the brake master. They squeezed or hammered the exhaust pipe to a non-circular cross section where it crosses under the oil pan.

Since the SBC in my car is pretty tired, when it needs a rebuild/replacement anyway, I have considered pretty much exactly what you're looking at (a Buick 322), except I'd get an adapter to keep the TH350 trans & open driveline that's already in the car.

Willie, can you expand further on the balance issues of the front pulley and flywheel please. I hear they are balanced "externally" , what exactly does that mean ?

Can I retrofit a manual shift flywheel from another type of engine ?

From an earlier discussion: http://forums.aaca.org/f162/55-engine-swap-dilemma-339409.html

Don't switch the flywheel/flexplate or the balancer or pulley at the front --- they contribute to the balance of the engine and are weighted differently. The 264 came from the factory with a pulley at the front vs a harmonic balancer in the 322 and that would be the only visual difference in strict BCA judging (if it is even noticed). Post production replacement of multigroove pulleys on the 264 was a balancer with the same add as needed pulleys as the 322.

Willie

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Keep 322 parts together and 264 parts together. A flywheel from another type of engine will not work unless is balanced to match the balance of the nailhead. If you rebuild an engine and have it balanced, be sure all of the rotating parts are included...internal and external...maybe at this point other parts could be substituted making everything unique to that engine.

Willie

Got it. So I could even retrofit a harmonic balancer style pulley off a later anything. The engine shop would then balance the whole rotating assembly ----- crank, flywheel, pulley all bolted up. Rods and pistons balanced individually. Sounds like I could be in for some work then. :eek:

I haven't looked that close into a '56, though there's one that shows up at the cruise night I'm at - so I probably have a photo showing exactly what the brake situation is for '56. But my overall thought is - the '55 brake master is down under & behind the driver's foot. Thus they routed the left-side exhaust forward of the oil pan, over to the right side, where it joins the right side exhaust with a "Y" under the cast manifold on the engine, to give one exhaust down the right side of the c

For '56, I thought they went to an over-hung brake pedal, which would put the brake master high on the left side of the firewall, leaving room for the exhaust to pass below on the left side. In that artist's rendering of a '56 engine that I posted, you can see the left side exhaust manifold has the exit to the rear, down the left side. This would put the next pipe back on a collision course with the '55 brake master is directly in front of the pedal, low on the fire wall.

So, either the brake master has to go, or the '56 engine needs a '55 right-side exhaust. I just don't know if '55 manifolds would bolt up to a '56 engine. The answer is probably yes, because why would they change the engine block from 1 year to the next. But if you get a '56 engine, that means a search for '55 manifolds.

My '55 has a SBC, not the original Buick engine. So I can't look around in there for much in the way of clues. For the SBC, they routed the left side exhaust pipe under the back end of the oil pan to achieve the cross-over to the right-side exhaust to avoid the brake master. They squeezed or hammered the exhaust pipe to a non-circular cross section where it crosses under the oil pan.

Since the SBC in my car is pretty tired, when it needs a rebuild/replacement anyway, I have considered pretty much exactly what you're looking at (a Buick 322), except I'd get an adapter to keep the TH350 trans & open driveline that's already in the car.