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Is the car Market soft???


nick8086

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The market seems to be pretty buoyant here in the UK: if the price is right cars are selling as soon as they come on the market. In just the last few weeks I have missed out on six cars which tempted me - all sold within days of adverts first appearing!

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Had some discussion about this with some older guys the other day. They agreed that the ordinary cars of the twenties and earlier were not in demand, and were selling for a lot less than they used to but the muscle cars were still in demand. The older generation that collected and restored the old cars are dying off and those cars mean nothing to younger collectors.

The Duesenbergs and Rolls Royces will bring high prices but the REOs, Maxwells and Whippets, not so much. Model A Fords are the same price as they were 20 years ago, or lower.

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People historically covet the cars that were popular when they first started driving. For us baby boomers, that means the late 1950s through the early 1970s are the cars we most want to collect. Since we're reaching an age where we have the disposable income to buy them now, those are the cars most sought after at the moment. Sure, I can appreciate a nicely restored or original 1930s car, but I don't particularly want to own or restore one. Now, a 36 Olds street rod, that's a different story... :D

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My taste as well has nothing to do with what cars I saw as a kid. I was always fascinated by 30's-50's cars. My "dream cars" seemed to be 30's convertibles especially Auburn Cord Packard etc. I had no desire to own a late 1970's-80's car and my dad even had a 79 Camaro that he would leave me with when he needed to borrow my truck while I was at school. My highschool car for nice days and first driveable old car was a 1956 Olds hardtop (which I still have) .

Now I find myself fortunate enough to have some of the cars I always dreamed about, including a 36 Cord Phaeton, 36 Chrysler Roadster, 32 Ford Convertible and 60 Fuel injected Corvette.

None of those fit the mindset of collecting cars you remember as a kid. Most of those I only had in Matchbox form.

As far as the market, we will see how soft it really is as we are preparing to buy a bigger house and I will have to sell a few cars. On the block- the 36 Chrysler Roadster, 1948 Plymouth Convertible and 1960 Corvette.

Lets Hope it's not to soft. I either have to move the Plymouth and the Chrysler or the Vette. No one's beating down the door yet but winter won't end in the North East so it's hard to find fired up buyers around here. I haven't tried to market any of them nationally yet as I can't even get them out of the garages for a potential buyer to look over and see how well they all run.

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The cars that were on bedroom wall posters when I was a kid were things like the Lamborghini Countach, Ferrari Testarossa, Lotus Esprit, Delorean, Vector, etc., yet my interests today are almost exclusively early 1960's European cars and earlier American with some (many) exceptions of course. Speaking locally, Pacific NW and USA, I can say that the cars those of us in the MBCA own are all quite pleased with the market over the last two years and it continues to rise for other "good" cars. I don't mean just the finest of the finest like a Gullwing or a Duesenberg, but any honest car with no stories to tell and records continue to bring the good money.

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I have found some very good buys out there recently. I only wish I had more money available to make some significant purchases NOW! As for the subthread here that is discussing the notion that we only relate to the cars of our youth, I tend to agree, though not in the traditional sense. When I was a kid my dad helped to found a car club in northern Michigan. There were a lot of Model T's, Model A's, a Studebaker Duplex touring of the '20's, a Hudson Victoria (apparently one off!) and even a couple Packards of the 30's in our group. Those are the cars I lusted after as a kid and they are the cars I lust after now. I also recall a CCCA tour going through our area when I was perhaps 8-9 years old. I remember a Packard, a Ruxton and a Rolls Royce being on the tour. Ever since that time I have been a Classic car fan. Oh yeah, and there was a magnificent '67 Lincoln Convertible down the street. Very impactful car to me!

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My four toys were built in 1913, 1912, 1911 and 1907. I'm a 1936 model; I don't remember these cars from my youth, although I'm sometimes asked whether I'm their original owner. My son's toys are 1912 and 1909. He was born in 1964, and he sure wasn't around when his cars were new! I imagine it's frequently true that people are drawn to the cars they remember. But, fortunately, there are enough oddballs like me to keep me from worrying that the cars won't continue to have an active market.

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My choice of cars has nothing to do with the current market. I am a baby boomer and really enjoy the '30s cars, I have two of them. I think their styling is some of the best Detroit ever made. But I also own 2 '50s cars. The reason is that they are much more practical to tour with in today's modern traffic. They have better tail lights, brake lights, head lights, can keep pace with modern traffic, and have better visibility for the driver. I still drive my '30s cars on the back roads as they are really fun to drive. But if our club has a tour that involves driving on high-speed roads, I will take one of the '50s cars.

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I really don't care if the market is soft. I plan to sell three early vehicles this Spring regardless of the market. When I purchased these vehicles back in the 70's and 80's it never was as an investment, it was an opportunity to examine history firsthand and enjoy the research with fellow collectors. If I break even or lose a little, no big deal. If you got into the hobby as an investor, you might well be concerned. If you got into the hobby to preserve the past, meet great people, and learn a little at the same time, thats the reward.

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The market seems to be pretty buoyant here in the UK: if the price is right cars are selling as soon as they come on the market. In just the last few weeks I have missed out on six cars which tempted me - all sold within days of adverts first appearing!

Yes you are correct. Just keep away from the small engined prewar odd ball over stressed cars and you will be ok.

I have had three approaches in the last few months but unless I can find something with a large engine to replace am not selling

Edited by tentenths (see edit history)
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If you look at the auction activity (if that is any gauge) the market is not soft at all. I am not just talking about the big stuff...the recent Fort Lauderdale Auctions America auction is a good example. The production cars in the 20's have not appreciated at all in the last decade or so, so that market does seem "soft" to many of us.

I have recently published an editorial with the premise that there are a lot of affordable cars out there right now for the entry level hobbyist or just those looking to add more to their collection. It still seems to be the case. Unfortunately, the cars I love, big brass Oldsmobiles are very unaffordable to me! So are Voisins, Duesenbergs, Dellahayes, etc! :)

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I'm a 1951 model and my interests have lied in anything pre 1930's tractors and cars my entire life.......heck.......I even married a woman 13 years my senior....... :rolleyes:

I have 4 cars ranging from 1919 to 1929 plus I "re-acquired" a '59 Chevy last September.

A '59 Biscayne was my first car and I never fell out of love with it so I needed another one.

I think the only exception I would make would be a 1932 Chevrolet Confederate.......one of the most gorgeous cars Chev ever made.

I don't have to worry about that because I can't afford one anyway but, wow, they're beautiful........ :P

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With a few execeptions I believe the car market these days is pretty soft. Especially as people in their prime earning years keep moving along. It used to be that the cars of the late 1950s were the hot item but that has really cooled off. Then it was the muscle cars of the late 60s and early 70s but those are starting their downward trend.

Investing in cars is pretty much a foolish thing to do unless you are lucky. Buying, restoring, and driving old cars is something for people who just like the hobby. If a particular model or group of cars gets overheated in the pricing game all you need to do is look elsewhere for other models that are affordable and there are literally countless ones to pick from.

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Guest AlCapone

I truly believe that you have to be in our hobby for the enjoyment and not a profit. I also believe that it is financially responsible to buy a restored car rather than pay to have it restored. I am convinced that you will never recover your investment if you contract out a restoration. It is definitely the time to buy and not the time to sell. Old cars are not a wise financial investment IMHO !

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With a few execeptions I believe the car market these days is pretty soft. Especially as people in their prime earning years keep moving along. It used to be that the cars of the late 1950s were the hot item but that has really cooled off. Then it was the muscle cars of the late 60s and early 70s but those are starting their downward trend.

Investing in cars is pretty much a foolish thing to do unless you are lucky. Buying, restoring, and driving old cars is something for people who just like the hobby. If a particular model or group of cars gets overheated in the pricing game all you need to do is look elsewhere for other models that are affordable and there are literally countless ones to pick from.

I would look at what late 50's cars are bringing. Really good examples in the hardtop, sport wagon models or Convertibles are bringing pretty good money. Mopar convertibles of this vintage are bringing 100,000-150,000. Look what a 58 Bonneville Convertible brings or other multitude of late 50's models mentioned. Maybe the Ford and Chevy market are down but it seems like all the other stuff is climbing or atleast on a pretty high plateau.

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I think the market has always been soft on Kaisers, unless it is a very special upscale low production car.

If the Darrin is a nice car, will sell at the proper venue.

I know a guy that has a 1950 Dodge four door sedan restored at a shop. Now he thinks that the market is way off because he cannot get the $70 K that he put into it. Nice car, however...................

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hmm. pretty tough to add too much here that has not already been addressed either in terms of market trends (Dave Fields is spot on, plus the "market" is so big now it is actually several sub markets, IMO) or the philosophy behind hobby vs. investing (even a 50% loss on a vehicle after 10 years puts one ahead of a golfer, say, assuming both get equal fun out of the hobby for the same period of time).

The only thing I will say that may be of value to Nick (who may be posting out of frustration due to low interest so far in some nice cars if these are his for sale - not quite sure from the post..) is not to confuse value with liquidity. The examples he refers to look like nice cars, but the seller needs to do two things, assuming it is not a situation where a quick sale may be necessary for financial reasons. First, understand the market for what you are selling and establish the price point you intend to stick with and second, market the car in various places, knowing it may take a while to find the right buyer.

Just as patience helps a buyer get the best deal possible, it works the same on the selling end as well. Quicker sales usually mean a price drop to get there - people often chalk that up to a soft market when in fact for many unusual cars it is a limited market that must be reached to attain the best price.

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nick8086,

Ebay auctions in progress don't tell the whole story. When I look at those auctions, I see lots of people watching the auctions. Wait until the end and you will probably see a few serious bids. I also am not sure that Ebay is the best place to market those particular cars to obtain the best price. It is a good place for a quick sale, but most Ebay buyers are looking for a bargain and bid accordingly.

The car market may appear "soft" in some areas or for some particuar style of cars, but there is a lot of variety in prices and trends. The more you study what things are selling for, the less I think I know about the car market. Some seem to be going high, some low, some are all over the place. A lot of variables result in a lot of variety.

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Guest Henry White

The market will have to improve before I would call it soft. Prices on only the very best models will be slow to fall, common cars and projects are toast. Many folks are at the point of saturation, or they are too old to play, they cant handle any more cars. in 10 years supply of cars will exceed demand. At that time you will start to see restorable cars neglected, parted out etc. Eventually you wont be able to sell these cars. Prices will never recover. It's just the way markets go.

Some sellers arent helping any, today I saw a clean 65 Skylark on CL @ $7500 FIRM. For a four door sedan??? GOOD LUCK. It is a Skylark w/extra doors, not a GS. That is a lot for a 4 door, fine for a 2 door hardtop though. Like the last 60 years, collectible cars will sink into the mud while the owner holds out for his rust bucket to bring within a couple hundred bucks of that restored one "just like his" on the TV auction. Oblivious to the fact that his engine is missing and the quarters are falling off.

Parts are or were a good investment, cars not so much. I bought my cars because I wanted them. Sold them because I want something else even more.

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nick8086

I agree with Mr. Hinson. Plus, based on your condition identification on the cars ("mint" and "almost mint"), you seem to be a novice in the collector car hobby. One look under the hood of the "mint" cars and buyers see "used car." I don't intend this to be disrespectful, just pointing out to you what seasoned car buyers are looking for. The cars look very nice, but "mint" is the wrong word to be using. eBay is a place to market to bargain hunters. Unless you have something really rare and highly sought-after, bidding will be under their current retail market value.

As has been pointed out, certain cars are hot and have gone into the stratosphere of being investments rather than a hobby (too bad). Also pointed out, while Kaisers and Frazers, like Lincoln, are excellent cars, they've never been highly sought-after. In other words, always have been affordable to the hobbyist.

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Is the classic car market soft?

The market is so big now that there are really multiple “sub markets.” As to whether things are up, down, or sideways…it all depends exactly what you’re looking at. It isn’t really accurate to say the market is doing one thing or another because it doesn’t move up and down as a block. Some market segments are absolutely on fire, while others just keep chugging along virtually unchanged for decades.

There’s a lot to think about here, but as has been pointed out, don’t confuse “market” with value nor with liquidity. I would add that one should not use liquidity alone as the basis for gauging the market. Plenty of things have “value” that aren’t easy to sell quickly. You can have high liquidity in both up and down markets. I think we’re seeing some lower prices on cars and parts simply because of the economy. Simplified, it comes down to no money = no fun, with “fun” of course being things that one engages in discretionary spending on such as collector cars.

I suppose we can point fingers at the internet too. It’s made it pretty easy for someone to figure out what they have and to very inexpensively advertise items for sale or wanted to an international audience. Items that were long thought of as “rare” and/or “valuable” suddenly became not so rare and not so valuable when a dozen of them could be purchased online at any given time. This has driven prices down. It’s supply and demand. The ebay phenomenon, you know, though it’s not strictly limited to ebay.

One of the other things that I think we are seeing is folks are trying to get out of cars and parts they bought at high prices not too long ago. Someone that bought something only a year or two ago probably hasn’t forgotten what they paid for it and isn’t willing to take a loss on it. So, things go on the market and simply sit and sit. The seller digs in at the price and complains the market is soft. The buyers pass it up because it’s overpriced for the market and so on.

I would also ask this: does it matter? To the true enthusiasts and collectors, it shouldn’t really matter. In fact, I would think that a down market would give them more buying power by virtue of prices being lower. To those that tried to get in on the action by flipping cars or dealing parts, yes, a down market can hurt and really matter to them. But those who truly love the cars will not be affected by market direction…they’ll be loving and collecting them just the same.

Last, what about the idea that perhaps we’re seeing the market transition from one generation to the next and that the next generation is still feeling out what they’re interested in?

Edited by Scooter Guy (see edit history)
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Excellent points, Scooter.

It is my opinion that the "soft" market on some cars is actually a good thing for the hobby, because it allows many young or newcomers to get into a certain segment of the hobby that they may have deemed too expensive. I put myself into that category. If I didn't have two college tuition payments to make every quarter, I'd be buying some really interesting cars from the 1920s ... Marmons, Pierce-Arrows, Lincolns ... cars that I have always felt were out of my league. I can see now that if the market holds still for a few more years, my dream of owning one just may happen.

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West, my strategy as well!! Picked up the Speedster project recently specifically to do a fair amount of work myself, knowing full well we will be "underwater" when all is said and done; it is for F-U-N - my retirement dollars are invested, this is a hobby... As it will tuck in nicely in the far corner of the garage I also hope to take advantage of the "soft market" and find an unusual 20s - 30s car like the Marmon recently listed in the "buy & sell" forum here, worst case is we pick up another Model A - every collection should have one of those anyway, right? ;)

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Excellent points, Scooter.

It is my opinion that the "soft" market on some cars is actually a good thing for the hobby, because it allows many young or newcomers to get into a certain segment of the hobby that they may have deemed too expensive. I put myself into that category. If I didn't have two college tuition payments to make every quarter, I'd be buying some really interesting cars from the 1920s ... Marmons, Pierce-Arrows, Lincolns ... cars that I have always felt were out of my league. I can see now that if the market holds still for a few more years, my dream of owning one just may happen.

Well said. I'd be curious to know the percentage of folks who can spend 5K+ or 15k+ or 25k+, so on and so on. I would bet the curve is heaviest at the lower end of the spectrum. Goodness knows the only reason I can offord the hobby at all is because I do all my own work with the exception of machining cranks/cams/blocks/heads. At 34 i'm in the younger crowd and have been willing to learn what it takes to keep these old girls going. I wonder sometimes if future generations will be willing to do the same or if they won't bother because there's no "app" for that.

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Would anyone like to estimate the value and asking price on an HPOF status car in a Soft Market? The owner has already set his asking price. He is a former long time AACA & Ohio Region Member.

It is a<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:PunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w:DontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> 1929 Packard model 626 4Door sedan, dual side mounts, solid disc wheels, trunk. 70,000 Low mileage car, interior and exterior condition 8 on a scale of 10 per the owner. It can be driven any where with new tires.. Bumpers have been chromed and wheels painted. Car was purchased 35 years<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]--> ago when it had 7,500 miles and always garaged. The owner is in FL and plans to post it for sale when he comes north in May.

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Edited by huptoy
Per Wests comment, I added "Per The Owner" (see edit history)
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Yup, Scooter Guy you hit the nail on the Head. I spent enough to get the cars I have, and do not regret it a bit because I bought them to have fun with. And I've had a great time meeting folks I would not have known otherwise. If money is the only thing on some ones mind for getting in this hobby, they better get out while they are ahead. I have had a lot of people say that I could sell one of my cars for a lot of money. My answer to them is, "I'm having way too much fun to sell now." Dandy Dave!

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I would concur with West's assessment. That's a #3- or even a #4 condition car, which, while sound, has deteriorated quite a bit. Originality doesn't necessarily add value, although it's a nice bonus (see the thread from the gentleman asking about his 1953 Dodge convertible's value for my thoughts on originality). It's a fine tour car, but a Packard Standard 8, short-wheelbase sedan that needs considerable TLC won't bring top dollar. I might spend $500 detailing it and list it at $24,900 to see what happens. I would shoot for something in the low-$20s, but anything over $20,000 is appropriate and should be able to buy the car.

Now, do I think the market is soft? Not particularly. All cars sell if they're priced right. There are buyers at all price ranges and they're eager to buy. Elementary, right? HOWEVER, it's been my experience that most owners over-value (and therefore over-price) their cars and they don't sell, giving the impression that there are no buyers and the market is soft. It is likely that unless you have a high-end Full Classic or European exotic, your car is worth less today than it was 5 or 8 years ago. Does that imply that the market is soft, or is it related to other factors? I think the market was over-heated in 2005-2008 and that gave people unreasonable expectations that they are unwilling to let go of today. And no matter what we all say, when the time comes to sell a car, every single owner does the math and tries to make a few bucks on his car; it's just human nature. The cars that sell are those that are priced right, regardless of whether the seller is losing money on it. "The market" just doesn't care.

For a majority of cars, the buyer is what I call an "opportunity buyer." That is, he's not looking for anything specific, but if something catches his eye he'll buy it. A vast majority of old cars fall into this buyer's sights--he doesn't know what he wants but he'll know it when he sees it. And with that in mind, there are A LOT of cars to choose from in any particular price range. It also means that most garden-variety cars (meaning no offense) are going to have a tough time standing out unless they're attractively priced relative to everything else on the market. Sadly, there is nobody out there searching for a 1927 Oldsmobile 4-door sedan and trying to get the best one he possibly can. A 1927 Oldsmobile sedan is instead purchased by a guy with $10,000 in his pocket looking for an old car to use on weekends and he probably doesn't care if it's an Olds or a Pontiac or a Plymouth or a Hupmobile. I was this kind of buyer when I bought my 1929 Cadillac. I had a certain amount of money and wanted a Full Classic with sidemounts and at least 8 cylinders, but if it was a Packard or a Cadillac or a Lincoln, a 4-door, a Victoria coupe, or some other body style, well, I was open to possibilities. I just wanted a nice car to enjoy and that's what I got at a price that made me and the seller equally unhappy (haha!).

The other kind of buyer is what I call a "searcher." He wants something very specific and looks at all the available options and buys the best example of that car he can find. I was this kind of buyer when I bought my 1941 Buick Century sedanette. I wanted THAT EXACT CAR, not a Pontiac, not an Oldsmobile, not even a 1941 Buick Special sedanette, but a 1941 Century 2-door sedanette. For this car I WAS willing to pay a premium, but only for a good one. I sought them all out and probably saw every one that was for sale at the time. When the right car came along, I bought it without hesitating and probably would have paid twice as much to have it because it was the right car for me. The seller probably thought the market was quite strong because I moved so fast and didn't haggle, and probably figured he had under-priced it by a good amount. In truth, he simply found the one guy in the world who wanted it desperately.

So the market may be strong or weak, it may be a buyer's or seller's market, but it all depends on the car and the people involved. There isn't just a generic "the market" but a combination of factors. The Packard above is a somewhat desirable car, probably more desirable than most any other 1929 4-door sedan, but it's deteriorated and it is not competition for an open car or a restored car or a bigger car. That makes the market a bit smaller, but still strong in its own way. Will "the market" appear weak to the seller because he's hoping to get $40,000 for it? Absolutely. However, if he wants to put $20,000 in his pocket, I think he'll find the market quite strong.

Priced right, I can sell any car. The trick is finding a price that the seller is comfortable with while simultaneously not pricing it out of the range where it will catch an opportunity buyer (duh).

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The only correct answer is one that has been hinted at and somewhat described already:

It depends on what you are in the market for, how fast you want to move, and whether you are a buyer or a seller.

Can't get more vague than that I know, but it really is the case.

Auctions should not be grouped in the stats of all cars sold. They are unique situations that often bring uniquely high or low prices. Then again, there is no real way to record and sort of all the cars sold privately. A buyer will tell a seller who uses auction prices as a pitch to then just take the car there to sell, while the seller will just tell the buyer to go buy one at an auction if they think they can get a better price. In reality neither makes sense as auctions are different animals. They are groups of sellers who want to sell today with groups of buyers who want to buy today. That rarely happens in the real world.

Edited by 39BuickEight (see edit history)
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So say the Packard above sells for $19,000 here is my best guess at the situation:

Seller is likely somewhat dissapointed and assumes a "soft market" or "no one is interested in these prewar cars anymore" - understandable as he has maintained (presumably) and loved this car for 35 years, and been shoulder to shoulder with pricey Packards at various meets over the years. And paid Packard parts prices to keep the old gal on the road. All understandable but not really market factors, more or less emotional. His optimistic assessment of 8 on a scale of 1 - 10 shows a strong emotional tie, IMHO.

In actuality, he sells at market for a lesser model that while perfectly enjoyable as is, needs a significant amount of work to get to #2 condition, and likely that represents investing beyond the value of the car, which may or may not be the buyer's ultimate goal.

The seller has put 62,500 or so miles on the car over 35 years and at $19,000 is likely ahead of the game to some degree, or darn close anyway. A new person will enjoy it, and the seller has had 35 years of enjoyment - got to be worth something, right?

OR, seller cannot come to terms with a $20K ask/$19K sell. Maybe he thinks the car is worth $40K, and won't take a penny less. It is then worth $40K - to him, even if no one else, another possible outcome.

While everyone wants to maximize the dollars they get out of a car when the time comes, I just think keeping things in perspective can help when taking a hard look at what that car is really worth.

Edited by Steve_Mack_CT (see edit history)
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If one wishes to define the market as prices that are low enough to attract eager buyers then sure, it is rock solid. The pictured Packard if offered for $10,000 would attract buyers from far and wide who are eager to put the cash into the hands of the seller. But I think that the term market is not really defined in this way. I see market as being what sellers are seeking compared to the most that ordinary buyers are willing to pay. Markets are largely a mental thing and the old car market these days has two serious impediments - prices ordinary buyers are willing to pay today on most old cars are signficantly lower than they were not all that long ago. There was a bubble and while it has not yet burst, it has deflated somewhat on the great majority of models. The second serious impediment is the emotional one. Cars are very emotional to their owners. They fall in love with them and shower unrealistic amounts of time and work and cash to restore them and keep them nice. Most owners are totally upside down in terms of having invested far more money into their cars than they will ever be able to recover when they sell their cars. It is not all that unusual for this to be as much as two or three times more money invested than the car is really worth in the cold light of the day. Car owners seem to have brain freezes when it comes to thinking about the value of the fun they have had with their car or the value of the miles they drove it when they set their prices. If a car owner really wants to get the real market value for their car all they need to do is put it up for auction with a $1 starting bid and no reserve. It gets sold to the guy who has the greatest desire for it and the biggest wallet.

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I agree with you, Steve. The demand for non-investment-type collector cars hasn't lessened, it's just shifted to a different type of buyer. When deep-pocketed buyers are no longer interested, us peons move in. When the prices are higher, us peons are out of the market, and the deep-pocketed buyers are back in.

It would be the same in the clothing industry. When $200 jeans suddenly become unwanted by those that were buying them at that price, the number of people willing to buy the jeans may remain the same once they're price is lowered.

So, "soft market" is just another name for a demand curve shift (economists out there are welcome to point out my mistake in definition, or clarify what I mean).

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From the web:

Americans are at least $6.8 trillion short of what we need to fund comfortable retirements. Baby boomers, who are retiring at the rate of 10,000 a day, find themselves particularly unprepared, with a median of $120,000 saved—not nearly enough to sustain a 30-plus year retirement.

This may be part of it.

Edited by nick8086 (see edit history)
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