Varnish question

Hello, I am restoring a 1940 Lasalle woodie. Right now I am building/reproducing the wood body out of ash and ribbon grain mahogany plywood. What brands of varnish do y'all use? What is the most durable? I made some samples with Epifanes and that seemed OK. I have heard of some using Mckloskeys Man O War on woodies. I read an article in Fine Woodworking magazine about using a clear two part epoxy penetrating sealer before the varnish. This is supposed to prevent moisture from getting under the varnish and discoloring the wood. I made a sample of this also. It looked OK but it is worth the extra effort? Has anyone out there heard of or used this method on their woodie? Thanks.

i had a friend use epoxy.. with less than stellar results..

I used Epifanes and I like it alot..

this is one of those situations where everyone has their own opinion..

no matter what.. your 2014 solution should be superior to anything the factory would have done.. and its most likely that you'll treat the car better than it would have been in 1940 .

As Jeff mentions Epifanes is a very good brand. You can find a large selection of varnish in a West Marine catalog. The biggest thing when purchasing varnish is to get the one with the highest UV protection. I think when purchasing varnish is that you get what you pay for. If you get some cheap Home Depot brand you will pay for it in the long run.

I have always used Marine Spar Varnish. It is durable and lasts, too.

On the bare/new wood I would make a 50/50 mixture - 50% varnish / 50% paint thinner.

This is used as a wood "sealer" before going to 100% varnish. You can go directly to 100% varnish after the 50/50 OR you can apply a second coat of 75/25 (varnish/thinner) before moving to 100% varnish.

Important aspect about finishing wood is that you need to scuff/sand between EVERY coat to remove any "high" spots

and it gives the next coat a good surface to adhere to. Best to wait 24 - 48 hours between coats. I have always brushed it on (my preference) whereas others might recommend spraying. I have always had great success with brushing it on. Just need to take your time.

I usually use 8 - 10 coats but I have gone up to 15 coats - on the trunklid - just because of the exposure to the elements it sees.

The nice thing about the Spar Varnish is that it gives the wood a "golden" tone and it really highlights the grain.

Joe

I used varnish, brushed on and six coats, hand sanded and love the results. Tone and warmth that sprayed varnish seems to lose. Recieved Senior award at Hershey and shooting for Grand National at Lebanon in June.

I really like the Mas epoxy but you need to build it up with three coats then turn it over to a professional body guy to sand it out and add about 3 coats of automotive clear coat gives its the best UV protection and used it on a kayak with great results I have a pic of a finished panel on my project its easer to just post link for me http://www.flickr.com/photos/57892007@N00/

I have always used Marine Spar Varnish. It is durable and lasts, too.

On the bare/new wood I would make a 50/50 mixture - 50% varnish / 50% paint thinner.

This is used as a wood "sealer" before going to 100% varnish. You can go directly to 100% varnish after the 50/50 OR you can apply a second coat of 75/25 (varnish/thinner) before moving to 100% varnish.

Important aspect about finishing wood is that you need to scuff/sand between EVERY coat to remove any "high" spots

and it gives the next coat a good surface to adhere to. Best to wait 24 - 48 hours between coats. I have always brushed it on (my preference) whereas others might recommend spraying. I have always had great success with brushing it on. Just need to take your time.

I usually use 8 - 10 coats but I have gone up to 15 coats - on the trunklid - just because of the exposure to the elements it sees.

The nice thing about the Spar Varnish is that it gives the wood a "golden" tone and it really highlights the grain.

Joe

I'm 100% with Joe. I did the wood on my 48 T&C in 1980 and it still looks great 34 years later!

I used McClosky's Spar Varnish. Thinned the 1st two coats with turpentine and then sprayed 4 full coats.

Bob

I'm 100% with Joe. I did the wood on my 48 T&C in 1980 and it still looks great 34 years later!

I used McClosky's Spar Varnish. Thinned the 1st two coats with turpentine and then sprayed 4 full coats.

Bob

I totally disagree the epoxy will bring the wood grain out more than the varnish then the uv protection of the clear coat saves the finish and the wood these products have been tested in a very competitive market and will out out last and varnish finish their was a town and country at hershey done with this finish and it was the best wood their. 3 coats of epoxy and 3 of the automotive clear coat is better and will last longer than 15 coats of varnish just try it on a small pice of wood you really want a finish go 6 and 6 coats and you can do this with less time than 15 coats of varnish

I wanted a variety of opinions and I am getting it! The 36 Dodge is a little farther along than mine is. The Town and Country is beautiful. What is the yellow one? I'm still eager to hear more finishing stories. Has anyone used varnish over epoxy primer? Thanks, Tom

I built a guilmont kayak before 90 % are epoxy covered glass cloth clear then varnished some do the clear coat but it's pretty new here is a link those guys do some net stuff you need to look at the pictures and go to their building blog http://www.guillemot-kayaks.com/guillemot/

I totally disagree the epoxy will bring the wood grain out more than the varnish then the uv protection of the clear coat saves the finish and the wood these products have been tested in a very competitive market and will out out last and varnish finish their was a town and country at hershey done with this finish and it was the best wood their. 3 coats of epoxy and 3 of the automotive clear coat is better and will last longer than 15 coats of varnish just try it on a small pice of wood you really want a finish go 6 and 6 coats and you can do this with less time than 15 coats of varnish

I guess you know your stuff.

We coat the wood with West System Epoxy as a sealer and grain filler then sand carefully until all surfaces are as smooth and "flat" as we want them. We then follow up with multiple coats of automotive clear, tinted to give the look of varnish. For example 3 drops of red tint and 7 drops of yellow to a pint of clear. We then sand and buff just like we would if painting an automobile. The finished color and gloss can be manipulated quite finely this way.

I guess you know your stuff.

It really dose come down to personal preference

We coat the wood with West System Epoxy as a sealer and grain filler then sand carefully until all surfaces are as smooth and "flat" as we want them. We then follow up with multiple coats of automotive clear, tinted to give the look of varnish. For example 3 drops of red tint and 7 drops of yellow to a pint of clear. We then sand and buff just like we would if painting an automobile. The finished color and gloss can be manipulated quite finely this way.

I knew that my reply was going to ruffle some feathers. That's why I deleted it 3 times before I actually posted it. Not sure I should post this reply either......

Restorer32, from reading your posts I know that you know your stuff. But I cannot understand, and maybe it's just me (old school type) but it proves my point, why use something that needs to be " tinted to give the look of varnish" when you can use varnish???????

The amount of time our cars are exposed to the elements is minimal compared to when they were used as everyday transportation. So varnish will do just fine protecting them. Being "old school" I prefer an "original" type finish on my car(s) for the simple reason being originality.

I have a question.....

Has anyone had to do a repair (meaning feathering in a spot that may become scratched/damaged as these things do happen) on the sprayed-on epoxy with the clear coat????

If so, what does it entail.

Feathering in varnish is quite simple and doesn't require removing the entire finish to do it thereby being less expensive, I would imagine.

Again, these are my OPINIONS which I have accumulated through experience(s) and I ain't saying one way is better than the other. - but I prefer brushed-on varnish......

Joe

Sprayed on automotive clear lasts indefinitely. In a sense we have to guarantee our work over time and feel more comfortable with a clear finish. Material costs are certainly much greater than varnish but labor would be less than a brushed finish. No problem repairing a cleared surface though you likely would have to mask and spray an entire piece of wood rather than just the damaged spot. The clear already in place has to be sanded but doesn't have to be removed. All this being said if I ever get around to finishing my '48 Buick Woodie it will likely have a varnish finish.

I like using varnish. My '46 Ford wagon was done at the factory in varnish, so thats what I used. I have seen a lot of woodies over time and the cars done in epoxy or automotive clear just look too "plastic". I happen to like the warm glow and the originality of varnish, the "plastic" look is too cold. I guess what it comes down to is personal choice. There are many quality varnishes on the market today and Epifanes is on of them.

Tom,

My 48 Ford has maple/mahagony plywood. I first sealed the wood with a 50/50 mixture of denatured alcohol and shellac (two coats), sading between coats. I then used Marine Spar Varnish. I water sanded with 600 grit between coats with a total of five coats. Ford didn't put more than three on the car originally.

Make sure you use an upholstery attachment on your vacuum cleaner to pull out all the dust and grit before you apply any finish and THEN use a tack cloth. I did this before every coat and the result is a smooth finish. And yes, the car has been rained upon with no issues.

How often did the fords owner manual recommend a recital ? Most were every 6months

How often did the fords owner manual recommend a recital ? Most were every 6months

I doubt your car will see daily use and be exposed to the ravages of winter. I keep mine under a flannel-lined car cover when I am not driving it. Additionally, I have a shade in the garage I pull down to reduce exposure to ultra-violet light on the wood. Remember a couple of things. When the car was produced in 1946, there were still a ton of dirt roads. Here in Detroit, enviromental laws were non - existent and air played hell on paint and varnish.

There's a good book by Loren Sorensen called Famous Ford Woodies. You might want to add this to your library

Hope this helps.

To Maine reasons I like the epoxy is 1. I'm lazy and 2. I'm about a negative 3 on a 1-10 scale for finishing any thing . Just about all the new boats use epoxy an I can build up 3 layers of epoxy with a screed short haired brush on my panels then turn it over to the body guy that's a real pro. The finish will cost more but stay good for 10 years easy

bigvince is correct. When I got my '46 Ford wagon a lot of the interior and exterior hardware was coated with varnish. I thought someone had given the car a coat of varnish and was too lazy to remove or tape it off. After researching the car I saw in some Ford production pictures they they sprayed right over it. I spent a couple of days soaking the stuff in lacquer thinner to remove it. I guess if you are a purist and you restore a car for show you should spray over the hardware!