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Brush Identification - Please help


in2antiques

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Please help! I purchased this Brush two weeks ago and need help identifying the year and model. It's titled as a 1907 Brush Roadster, but the prior owner wrote Model E on the bill of sale, but also stated it's a 1912 Liberty model. I have the Motor Vehicle Department coming out to my house for a Level 2 inspection tomorrow (Nov 29, 2013) and I'd like to know before they arrive if possible. I've copied a part of a letter the prior owner received from the Tech Director of the Brush Club of America, who I was unable to locate for comment (I edited the letter to remove names). The letter states this is a Brush Liberty Model. The engine number is on the left side and marked 21632. There is a tag on the body with the number 2475, but this may have been an inventory number. The rear light and the oiler are not correct (I have the original oiler - if that's the correct term). I've looked at many pictures of these cars, including those in the Automobile Quarterly, Third Quarter 1986, but am still confused. Is this truly a 1912 Liberty? If so, should the title identify it as a Liberty, or a Roadster model (or even an E or F Model)? The letter also states the Liberty had the four separate fenders and the cheaper lights. I found pictures of a 1907 and also a 1911, showing them with the four separate fenders. Perhaps the pictures were identified incorrectly(?) Separate fenders = 1912?

I appreciate any feedback.

Thank you,

Dave

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Dave, Nice Brush, congrats. Certainly looks to be a 1912 Liberty model. The serial number of 21632 on your cylinder head would definitely make the head a 1912. You state your Bill of Sale says Model E but that would be incorrect if it is a Liberty ( two totally different years). As with many cars of this age it is always a possibility that some parts may have been changed out with parts from another year as long as they fit which can sometimes make it harder to verify the year/model. Your radiator shell looks to be brass but in 1912 they would have been painted steel. Could be the shell/ whole radiator is not original to the specific car of which is not uncommon. Is your set back wood? If your crankcase is cast iron that would be another sign of being a Liberty as all other Brush models had an aluminum crankcase case but once again the engine may have been changed out during the last 100 years. Many pictures you may find on the internet, while interesting and helpful, may not necessarily be 100% accurate in listing the year and model. Your best bet is reaching out to fellow Brush owners , like though this forum , and also joining the Brush Owners Association and you will find a wealth of information and friendly people. Once again congrats on your awesome Brush . Scott

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Hi Scott,

Thank you for your quick reply. I've attached a few more pictures of the Engine and Radiator. I was told the Radiator is original. It has a few leaks, but I was warned against fixing them, as it could get costly, or if the radiator gets plugged - very costly! I don't know if it was ever painted black, but certainly has no paint on it now. Other pics show the engine, etc. I know it had a crank repair at some point.

Again, what should the title read? Model E (he could have written F on the bill of sell (hard to tell), or Liberty? Guess I can call some people I found in the Horseless Carriage Club directory.

One more note - it leaks, as all old cars do. What type of oil do you use for the transmission and rear end? For the engine, I'll use 30wt non-detergent oil, as I use in another car I own (not a Brush).

Thank you,

Dave

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Dave,

Your crank handle looks to be Brush but the spring and washer look to have been added on for some reason, looks like you have a Stromberg carburetor . I don't believe that would be original but heck if the Brush runs good with it than I would leave it. The 2150D on the cylinder is a part number of which I believe that number to be related to 1912 parts. It is hard to tell from the pictures if your crankcase is aluminum or cast iron. A lot of the times the serial number has been welded/brazed over due to Brush engine cracking in that particular spot so many engine's serial numbers are unreadable. Great to see the original Briscoe Mfg tag on your radiator. I would think your title should read 1912 Brush Liberty by what it looks like and by the serial number .From a gentleman who knows a ton about Brush cars here is some info: Model A 1907 serial#1-100, Model B 1908 serial # 1000-1700, Model BC mid 1909 serial# 1701-3700,Model D late 1910 serial#3701-13700, Model E and M 1911 serial#13701-15000, Model F 1912 serial number 15001-20000, Liberty model 1912 serial number 20001 and up. And then in the models D, E, F there are different body styles; standard runabout ( model 24), runabout with a single rumble seat and runabout with a double rumble seat( model 28), a delivery vehicle ( model M) , a roadster (model 26) , a coupe and some others and I believe there was a delivery vehicle in model year 1907 and 1908 of varying styles. My info may not be 100% accurate so hopefully another reader on this forum who has more info than me could correct any of my errors please do so. post-90871-143142294849_thumb.jpgI have Mobil Synthetic in my engine and use 600w in my transmission ( recommended by a guy on this forum who is far more knowledgeable than me). I am sure there are all kinds of oil being used but it is my understanding most Brush trannys leak and therefore most guys use a heavy weight oil.

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Awesome response! Thank you for all the information. I honestly didn't think I'd get a response today, as it's Thanksgiving. I'm sure I'll be posting more on this site and will have many questions as I move forward with this vehicle. It obviously has some brass plated parts to go with the "real" brass, and I've begun polishing and cleaning her up. By the way - your engine is Beautiful! I can see the carburator difference. Not sure about other differences just yet. I don't know if I'll paint the radiator black, I kind of like it the way it is. Not knowing anything about these cars, when I saw this come up for sale and just had to buy it. I've been bugging my wife to let me buy a one or two cylinder car for a long time and she whole-heartly agreed on this one. It's just so Cute! (if it's OK for a guy to say that!) It's got some weak clutches for low and reverse and I'm sure some other minor issues, but have driven it up and down the street a few times and can't stop smiling and laughing the whole way! So much fun!

Happy Thanksgiving! We're heading out for the day. Will check this post this evening. I'd love to find out as more about the Brush and have already reviewed the brush website, (http://www.brushauto.net) but would like contacts as well. Again, thank you!

Thank you,

Dave

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I have an F Model, and the bodies are very close except that my seat area is not wood, but metal and slightly rounded at each seat. Differences that I can see (and not to be critical because many changes over the years are possible) are; wrong lights, oil tank and drip sight glass are wrong, carb wrong, no step plates (if a Liberty), and body and axels are painted.

I agree to list as a 1912 based on the engine number and over time corrections could be made if you wanted to make it more original. This is a very good start and a reasonably good condition auto. Is this the AZ. auto listed a couple of weeks ago? Keep posting questions and lots of people here can help. Good luck.

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Hi, and thanks for your comments. Yes, this is the model that was listed in AZ, and was about a two hour drive from where I live. I feel fortunate to have been able to get there quickly to make the purchase.

I'm aware that the oil tank and drip sight glass are wrong, but do have the originals. I was told it leaked at the firewall, so they were swapped (temporarily). It does have a step plate on the passenger side only and appears to be original (I can add more pictures if you'd like). I was told that the car underwent a refurbishment about 40 years ago and the person who took the paint off the body didn't have the heart to paint over it again - and I agree - the wood's beautiful and is what drew me to this car. The hood is a bit rough, and I was told it had had some bondo. The prior owner stipped it off and must have then painted it the yellow color (which will have to change). I didn't know about the carb, as I'm not familiar with these vehicles. I also was not aware of the change in the crank handle, but am very pleased with it's operation. I've never had a car of this era, so it's all new to me anyway. It runs pretty well, but I need to trust it a bit more before driving it out of my neighborhood. I was also told that the lights are indeed the originals, but Brush had "cheapened" some of the material in the last year. See the attached letter. (again, I deleted details from the letter to remove names). There was also a paragraph about how to improve the clutch in that letter, which I'll share later. I didn't want to throw names around in an open forum.

Not that I didn't believe that this was a 1912, but again, pictures I'd seen on the web confused me, and I just wanted to be sure. I question everything. I'm happy knowing this is a 1912 Liberty Brush and will go forward with the registration.

Again, thanks to all who replied on this Thanksgiving Day!

Dave

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brushF26,

Thanks for posting the serial number data. I was always under the assumption that my serial number was a 1911 F, model 24. There are a few Model F's and Liberty's registered as 1911, since they started production in July of that year. I have never seen actual numbers produced, so this really helps. The age old question of actual year produced or new model year exists. In any case, my serial number 17766 would put it in the 1912 year regardless. I received the original 1925 State of MN. Registration Card many years after I bought it, and 1912 is recorded.

Thanks again from frigid MN.

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