1934 Model 1240A "production" Silver Arrow coupe--how many were made?

I have been trying to find this in my collection of books, not finding that figure yet. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

First, a clarification of 1934 model numbers: 1240A was a 12-cyl on either 139- or 144-inch wheelbase, and 1248A was a 12-cyl on the 147-inch wheelbase. 840A was a 8-cyl on the 139 or 144 wheelbase. There was also model 836A, a 8-cyl on a 136-inch wheelbase but with different body styling. In 1935, 840A became 845, 1240A became 1245, and 1248A became 1255. There was never a "1250A."

All official Pierce-Arrow production records were destroyed when the company was liquidated in 1938. However, the Pierce-Arrow Society (PAS--founded 1957) maintains records of P-A vehicles registered with the Society.

I've pieced together the following numbers from PAS records (I have a 1934 840A -- 8-cyl Silver Arrow). Caveat: The PAS requests numbers (serial, engine, and body) from members. Some members provide all numbers, some partial, and some none at all. The following info is based on the numbers provided by owners over the past 56 years, so is not authoritative.

In 2010 I attempted to compile a list of known SAs and to track ownership--which helps when a subsequent owner provides more--or less--number info than previous owners. Some cars have been reported as owned but without any numbers at all, and attempts to associate a particular car to a prior owner who provided numbers were fruitless--these cars are not included in my count if they are not currently registered.

The 'production' Silver Arrows of 1934-35 used a body-style code of Y, the first time that code was used. The highest sequential body number for the Y code in 1934 (includes both 8s and 12s) reported to PAS over the years is Y-43. Accordingly, **at least** 43 Silver Arrows were produced that year. My 2010 count shows five 8-cylinder and eight 12-cylinder cars extant. "Extant" refers to those vehicles **ever** registered with PAS by any owner--present or past, not merely those in the current year's roster.

Consistent with their practice for other body styles, Pierce-Arrow continued the Y body-style code for 1935 but started the sequential numbering at 100 (i.e., body Y-100)--strangely, not at 101. This was a VERY low production year, as PAS knows of only three cars (one 8-cyl and two 12-cyl) extant, and the highest known body number is Y-103 (which means **at least** four cars were produced).

In general car-show conversations, I usually say that "about 50" Silver Arrow coupes were produced in 1934-35, and that 16 are known to have survived into this century.

By the way, the full body number included an "engineering code" which reflected whether the car was an 8 or a 12. For this period, a 244 prefix to Y and the sequential number indicates an 8-cyl, and a 344 indicates 12-cyl. The 44 reflects the 144-inch wheelbase of these cars. My car bears the body number 244-Y-31.

Nice write-up. I owned a 12 cylinder production Silver Arrow, now lives on the west coast....mechanically great cars, I drove it over 70, and the subsequent and still owner (with new tires) drove it briefly at 100.....when driving it from Dallas to Washington State when he bought it from me....am assuming you have either me as a past owner, or WMcD in Washington State as the owner of one now....

I know where two V-12's are sitting, both in very challenging condition, and another ; the one reported as cut up in Detroit in the early 70's was pulled out of the bone yard and saved. I am in agreement with George they can be very hard to track. My guess is that one can add 1 1/2 to the official list of known cars, possibly 2 1/2 when counting the 12's that are still with us. When I bought my 1936 1602 club sedan, there were only two known in the PAS in 1989, since then another 3 or 4 have been recorded. The list of known PA cars continues to be added to, more than one would think. My guess is there are another 100 to 150 yet to be found. Ed

I agree, Ed....there are too many garages sheds and...dare I say it...barns...in this country, and it's a VERY big country, so there are cars out there yet unknown....

Ed and David,

I agree that there are a number of undiscovered Pierces left--one or more turns up every couple of months. Ed, you've found more than your fair share! :-)

Can either of you provide the name of a previous owner of the 1934 12-cyl Silver Arrow basket case owned by John W? It was in a fire and reportedly came from New Jersey. Serial and body tags are gone, and the car has a Seagrave 12 in it whose number was not previously reported to PAS. I'm trying to determine whether is a previously-known-to-PAS car, and thus provide John any numbers reported to PAS. If you can shed any light on the origins of this car, please PM or email me.

I know of a 1934 P-A limousine in SE Michigan that is probably off the club's radar, it was in a metal shed with an identically bodied (as to type) 1933 Packard, a friend of mine owned both, he passed away and his kids have been selling off his stuff. Another friend bought the Packard and it is on its way back to former glory. I imagine the P-A is either sold or is eminently available.

On our summer road trip to the PAS meet in Carson City this summer after the meet, we then drove on to Long Beach in Ca to look at a Lincoln. In the garage next door there were two mid 30's PA's in a rod shop waiting to be cut up into someone's idea of a hot rod. (Both sedans.) Too far gone to have a collector save them, we hope to get the hard parts and put them to better use among the members. Both cars were not in the list of known cars. I took photos of them and their body tags to send into the club. The 33 Club Broughm we came home with was also not on the list, but several old time PAS members remember the car being driven by the first owner in the early 50's ! There still out there if you look hard enough. Ed

George..... I never tried to track down John W's car, but I think I know where it came from. I'll ask around when I come in contact with some of the members who may know the background. If you send me a list of the cars you have with numbers I'll try and figure out if the cars I know of are on the list. My last updated list was 2005. Ed

edinmass can you tell me the difference between the 1240a Silver Arrow and the 1242 convertible coupe. Besides of course the obvious differences of the coupe vs convertible. Was it a higher level of interior trimming?

Thanks

Vintage, I would not be the best person to answer this question. I think I would expect the 12 to have more detailed and expensive interior than the eight as was common but not always the rule. They never seem to build two Pierce Arrows the same. There was a lot of "buzz" about the production Silver Arrows and thus they probably had more detail paid attention to them. If one was headed to an auto show, it's a good bet that things like a twelve style trim and interior would be installed. There is no fast rule on these cars. George and Dave would be the best people to comment. I bet they will chime in when they see the new posting. Open cars were mostly leather and plain compared to the closed cars. I always thought the closed car as very attractive due to the detail that was put into them. I prefer closed cars to open and have owned both. My old 35 Club sedan had leather from new, it looks greatand is well done. I have photos of a 1937 open car with whip cord....... there are just no firm rules. They would also use eight trim in a twelve if it was near the end of the year. It's what makes PA's so interesting. I have not been able to come up with the contact on John W.'s car yet. He is still out of the US untill three more weeks. I should see him before the PAS meet in RI. Here is a 35 V-12 conv. coupe.

Another strange example of what was done when new. This one-off V-12 for the white house has black wall tires and canvas side mount tire covers. I would expect white walls and painted covers. I would bet a years pay that if the car were still around it would have the covers and white walls. In this case I think with the depression still ongoing it was an attempt to tone down the car.

trimacar,

A little story regarding the SA that you formerly owned. I will try to do justice to the story as I remember but thirty years can dim the memory a bit so I'm sure that you will help with any corrections or omissions. As you know after my good friend WMcD bought the car he and another good friend, PM, decided to drive the car back to Washington state. The journey was born out of the necessity of having to transport the car but I'm sure that the opportunity for adventure was the reason that they chose to drive the car rather then have it shipped. Thirty years ago we all were a great deal more willing to accept a challenge. I'm sure that the trip would never have been attempted if PM hadn't been such a fine mechanic. By the way PM continues to do mechanical restorations in the restoration shop that he and his brother run. One morning they woke up to find snow on the ground and I remember that they had to use the hair dryer to thaw the car out, but I can't remember that the rest of the trip was much of a problem.

At some point the original engine had been swapped for another V12 of the right year and the original engine was not part of the McD purchase. I doubt that very many collectors cared as much about matching numbers as we do today. I always thought that it would have been nice to at least have the original engine but nobody seemed to know or even care what had happened to the original engine. Then something unbelievable happened, several years later while we were on garage tour we were in the garage of a noted collector MA where as part of his display was a V12 PA engine on an engine stand. Low and behold it was he original engine that had come out of the SA years before and two thirds of the way across the country! MA had purchased the engine as a spare while he was restoring his 1934 V12 coupe without knowing any of the history of the engine or what car it had come out of originally. I wish that I could report that providence had made it possible for the reuniting car and engine, but I doubt that ever happened. Baring any changes I guess I will have to be satisfied the rest of the story will include the irony of car and original engine taking completely different routes across the country, at different times only to end up a few miles apart years later.

Interesting stuff, Bill. WMcD saw the Silver Arrow at the Dallas show back in the 80's, I believe it was. We met at that show, and then every couple of months he'd call me and ask when I was going to sell him "his Pierce Arrow"! For a couple of years, we'd have a nice conversation, always ending with me saying not for sale.

Then, on a tour in Texas, my wife and I rode in a 1937 Cord phaeton, and we knew we wanted one. I was car rich and cash poor, as I'd been selling lesser cars in the '80's and buying Classics to keep. Lo and behold, a friend in Houston had some business problems (remember how may things went south in the late 1980's?) and he had a Cord phaeton for sale. I drove to Kerrville, Texas, to inspect the car, and gave him a $1000 deposit on it....about all the cash I had in hand. Getting home, I knew something had to work out for me to finalize the deal, so I called WMcD, and said here's the price of the Cord, you pay that for the Silver Arrow and it's yours! And thus he ended up with the Pierce and me with my Cord.

The car drove well, but the tires were weak, so he purchased a set of new tires and had them shipped to me. I installed same, then delivered to car to Dallas, where his adventure began. He drove it to Washington State from Dallas, at one time exceeding 100 mph just to see if it could! I'd had it at 75 or so, with plenty of power left, so figured it wasn't an issue, although that's too fast as we all know. I never realized the engine in the car was incorrect. WMcD told me at one point he found the correct engine, and it could be bought, but the price of the engine was very high at the time and he decided not to go there. He still has the car, in the exact condition that he bought it from me, which was a 1950's or 1960's "dust it off and paint it" and if I remember correctly some red vinyl interior. Is a great, solid car, I bought it out of Moline, Illinois, and that's a whole separate story!

So to your point, no, at this point, original engine has not been reunited with car to my knowledge. I understand the craze of some collectors for numbers matching, sometimes to the extent of trying to make things match that originally didn't, but I really don't think the "wrong" engine is very harmful to value of this car (it is a Pierce engine, I believe, not a Seagraves).

Thanks for bringing up memories!