Reatta AC's Bit The Dust

I own four Reattas, one of each year. And every one seems to need R12 every couple of years. No harm done, for if the charge is low, the BCM shuts off the compressor after maybe 15 minutes and displays "Charge AC" on the dash and a can or two of R12 fixes 'er right up.

But now I have two Reattas that seem to have a seized compressor. Upon startup, the compressor cycles a couples of times and after a mere 15 seconds, the clutch starts slipping and sparking so much that the engine almost dies. Since half of my Reatta stable has this problem, it seems it is very common.

Does the compressor need replacement? If so, does the forum still suggest a new GM compressor, as they did years ago, and if so, where is the best place to purchase one? Does the system need to be flushed?

Funny, the old extra long compressor on the '65 Riviera is still going strong. So much for newer cars.

Thank you for your help.

Ouch, feel your pain.

I expect you will need to replace all of your compressors to cure the leaking. Small leakage growing worse over time is usually a signal that the compressor seals are wearing out. Other common leak points are Schrader valves and holes created by damage like a stone hitting the condenser etc. Those tend to come on quickly and not allow a recharge to hang around very long.

For the two that are seizing up, there's a good possibility that they have suffered a black death which takes a lot of effort to repair. (Read money if you can't do the work yourself.)

Typically, you would expect to replace the "holy trinity" (compressor, orifice tube, accumulator) and add oil and recharge as a minimum. This would be the time to change over to R 134 if that is more desirable than trying to find and pay for R 12. If black death has not taken place, flushing is optional but not a bad idea just to clean all the old stuff out.

If black death has occurred, then heavy flushing is needed as well as considering replacing the muffler / filter and condenser too.

A new compressor is the way to go, and the resources sticky lists TechChoiceParts.com as a good supplier.

Along with a forum discount you might get a volume discount too. The 88 uses a slightly different compressor than the 89 - 91s. The only difference is the connector that the harness plugs into. One has flat blades and one uses round pins. There is an adapter available that can allow the same style to be used in all years also.

Think the consensus was expect $700 - $1,000 (more for black death) per car to have this done for you. Costs could be $250 to $300 each if you have the equipment and ability to do the work yourself.

Forgot to mention another option that would be to just by-pass the compressor and get a shorter serpentine belt and go without the AC short or long term.

http://reattaowner.com/roj/component/content/article/95-accessories/heat-a-ac-system/113-belt-to-bypass-the-ac-compressor

Think you need to get two more Reattas, so you have both a coupe and vert for 90 and 91. Just one won't do

Edited September 26, 2013 by Mc_Reatta (see edit history)

ACDelco compressors and other A/C parts can be found at TheReattaStore.com. Price on compressors includes free shipping.

Ouch, feel your pain.

If black death has occurred, then heavy flushing is needed as well as considering replacing the muffler / filter and condenser too.

I know Halloween is coming up, but just what is "Black Death?"

Doesn't sound good.

I have all the equipment, gauges, hoses, adapters, vacuum pump and lotsa cans of R12, but aren't too impressed with the Reatta AC. Two out of four are not good odds.

Thank you.

Forgot to mention another option that would be to just by-pass the compressor and get a shorter serpentine belt and go without the AC short or long term.

http://reattaowner.com/roj/component/content/article/95-accessories/heat-a-ac-system/113-belt-to-bypass-the-ac-compressor

Think you need to get two more Reattas, so you have both a coupe and vert for 90 and 91. Just one won't do

I don't think so. Four Reattas are too many, even when one is a convertible and another a green '91 with 19,000 miles.

I just went thru this with my '89. After the initial compressor failure, I did as Ronnie mentioned and just installed a shorter serpentine belt.

As for the replacement, I did some research and found a company (Everco) here in the DFW area that had been in business for many years producing new as well as rebuilt commercial grade compressors. Not sure exactly when they got into the business of consumer automobile compressors, but found that they offered a redesigned version for our Reattas that features 10 pistons rather than the GM 6 piston design as well as dowel pins to better hold the two halves of the compressor housing in alignment. 10 pistons run quieter, smoother, and with less stress per piston, so a really good idea. Autozone carries the compressor as well as accumulator and orifice (Everco model # 58867). I might add that I opted to change to a variable orifice stated to offer better around town performance.

I borrowed the equipment (Autozone again) to flush out the system. The flushing fluid costed about $50 and was a bit of a mess, but I was not comfortable putting a new compressor on without knowing that the system was free of debris from the old unit. In pulling the orifice and the accumulator and compressor, you can flush out ALL the remaining components. I let the flushing fluid soak for about an hour before blowing it out with compressed air. After putting in the recommended amount of refrigerant oil (went with PAG) in the compressor and accumulator, I lashed everything back up and pulled a vacuum. To test that the system had no leaks, I closed off the manifold valves and watched the vacuum gauge. With NO drop in vacuum after 30 minutes, I felt comfortable that the system was airtight and then proceeded to continue pulling the vacuum for another couple of hours.

I charged mine with R134a that also contained a leak stop agent just as a precaution. So far no problems and while the AC does not produce air as cold as it did with R12, it does a good job of cooling the Reatta.

The job is doable as a DIY, but the upper front bolt on the compressor is a female dog, if you get my drift. I removed the inner cooler fan as well as working from the inside of the passenger wheel well (removed tire and part of the inner wheel well), but it was still a real pain. Not sure if removing the radiator and AC condenser would make it any easier as there is labor involved just getting them out and back in.

Bottom line cost as a DIY, was a bit over $500, so all in all, not too bad.

David T

t do you think of this?http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/cooling/531099-autofrost-r-406a-video.html

I just finished doing this with my '90. I scored a new AC Delco compressor on Ebay for $200 (free shipping). I also purchased the drier, condenser, and orifice tube thru Ronnie's site. The reason I replaced the condenser was that given the angles on the pipes, it is difficult to make sure it is completely flushed. I was also concerned that it was 23 years old and if I was spending this much, another $120 wasn't going to break the bank. I found a local guy to install my parts, flush the system, replace the O-rings with greenies, add the correct amount of Pag oil, and then recharge the system with R134a. He charged me $750. This is the correct way to convert to R134a. He saved the old O-rings and orifice tube to show me how they had deteriorated from the original owner's attempt to convert to R134a. Short cuts will work for a while but if you want it to last, you should do it correctly. My total investment was about $1100 without getting my hands dirty. Not too bad after 23 years and 94K miles. While I don't live in an extreme climate, R134a does cool my vert to 39 at the vent.

Also many thanks to Seanr who helped me tremendously with helpful advice in the process!

Edited September 27, 2013 by ol' yeller (see edit history)

Greg,

Thank you for bringing up the rational for changing out the condenser. In every post I've written regarding the AC system I've suggested installing a new condenser if the system were being opened up and a new compressor was being installed. It just doesn't make sense to chance ruining a $250.00 piece of equipment to save a hundred bux. Besides, to get the condenser out, the radiator has to be removed. Once you've got those and the fans out and removed the seven screws freeing the grill, access to the compressor is as good as it gets. Only removing the engine would give you more space to work.

Here's a link with photos of a leaking condenser. Corrosion has made micro-leaks in the tubing. Just the type of leak that requires the occasional "topping off" of refrigerant every so often.

John F.

I also didn't mention that the condenser is what gets hit first by road debris, rocks and bugs. After 23 years, replacing it just makes sense. Thanks John!

Be aware if you do decide to replace it, the condenser in an 80s is different than the ones used in the 90s.

t do you think of this?http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/cooling/531099-autofrost-r-406a-video.html

I would caution against using these higher efficiency replacement refrigerants in a Reatta. I have not tried this one, but did try es 12 in one of mine.

The AC in the Reatta and other high end GM cars of the era is more sophisticated than the standard system being regulated by the BCM in order to provide automated climate control. The BCM uses the temp sensors to monitor performance, and has been programed to expect certain levels of performance based on the performance of R-12. R-134a is slightly less efficient than R-12 so it doesn't cause any problems when substituted. But when a more efficient refrigerant is used, it can cause the BCM to think the charge level is incorrect and trip an error code.

When I tried es-12 according to directions, it constantly tripped the low pressure warning. When I adjusted the charge level to compensate, I got the warnings somewhat under control, but was running the system way overcharged for es-12 and therefore got no increase in efficiency from its use.

I would stick with R-12 or 134a in cars like ours that monitor and control using AC refrigerant temperatures, and reserve the high efficiency refrigerants for cars that just use a pressure switch and thermostat to monitor the operation of the system.

Just my experiences, your mileage may vary.

I don't think so. Four Reattas are too many, even when one is a convertible and another a green '91 with 19,000 miles.

You at least need to add a green vert to keep that 91 coupe company.:cool:

I know Halloween is coming up, but just what is "Black Death?"

Doesn't sound good.

I have all the equipment, gauges, hoses, adapters, vacuum pump and lotsa cans of R12, but aren't too impressed with the Reatta AC. Two out of four are not good odds.

Black death is when the compressor eats one of its internal seals and spits it out in thousands of black particles of various sizes that clog all the small openings in the system and stick to all the walls through out the system making a complete flush necessary. If not all removed, they will reclog all the new pieces, and ruin your new compressor.

Easiest way to check is to pull the orifice tube and inspect for debris clogging the screen. Will tell you what your in for.

Good you have whats needed to do this work yourself. Can save a ton of money doing 4 of them as labor is more than the parts and materials.

After getting sufficient R134a into the system during initial charging, I have had zero issues with any warnings.

I, like others, "feel" that the AC is not putting out air as cold as when it was running on R12, but today, with the temps in the mid 80s, with the car parked in the shade, engine RPM about 2500 at normal running temps, AC set to MAX COOL, I measured the air temp at all four outlets with my infrared thermometer. The air coming out from the outside vents was running about 41 degrees, while the inner two vents were running about 37-38 degrees. That is certainly acceptable performance from any AC.

I think what we all miss from R12 is the cooldown speed it delivered. R134a takes a bit longer to get there, but as my measurement shows, it gets there. I will say that my C5 vette, which was factory designed around R134a does a better job of getting COLD quickly, but I am not dissatisfied with the Reatta AC running R134a.

When I tore down the Reatta AC, I was pleased that the orifice did NOT show any particles of ANY size in the metal strainer section, which made me feel a lot more comfortable about the state of the remaining areas. It was a bit darkened, but NO particles. Maybe in my case, the failure was the clutch rather than the entire compressor, but as the cost of replacing the clutch approaches going all the way with a totally new compressor, it was a no brainer to me.

FYI, I don't know how much better the variable orifice that I installed makes the AC but I read several threads saying just do it, and as the price was trivial, I went with the recommendation.

I have had a few weeks of INTENSE, 100+ days to evaluate the Reatta AC running R134a and it seemed to pull the interior down pretty quickly, even though the air coming out of the vents did NOT seem as cold as I expected.

David T

just an A/C note to get more air flowing thru the vents: last summer, i put a small (about the size of 1/2 of a dish-"rag") cloth in each of the vents in the side of dash going to the door defroster vents. that increased the front vents airflow by 20 to 25%. i just took them out in the fall the first time i needed to defroster to help clear the side windows.

running 134a, and agree with above about it taking a little longer to cool down. haven't used R-406a on any vehicle. (don't want to deal with the EPA). i also steer clear of some of the coolants with propane or butane...

I disagree. R134 gets just as cold as R12. I wish folks would stop pushing that myth around. Frostbite is frostbite. Especially the guys on youtube that are filling systems with keyboard cleaners and propane! I converted two Fieros to R134a and both have vent temps of ranging between 35-39 degrees depending on outside ambient temp. If I stick my hand against the accumulator while it's running, my fingers will stick to the pipes.

**Remember**, R134 requires 90% capacity of R12. So perhaps if an A/C conversion is not cooling the same, verify how much refrigerant was pumped in. That will cause the pressure switch to kick off early.

Reatta A/C is shitty by design because the airflow is the weakest I've ever seen for a GM vehicle. The automation doors are either pushing a quarter to the floor or some to defrost on Max cooling. The system just suffers from duct leakage. Once it gets up to speed, R12 offers me 41 degrees.

I would agree, and as indicated in my earlier post, that R134a gets every bit as cold as R12, it is all a matter of how fast. Based on how fast my R134a Reatta AC lowered interior temps when the ambient was running consistently above 100, I would say that R134a has as good an ability to remove heat as R12, but the evaporator temps don't fall as quickly as with R12, but they do get there.

As you mention, proper refrigerant charge is CRITICAL and less R134a is needed as compared to R12. After the initial charge based on suction/head pressure readings, I did the superheat/subcooling calculations using the pressures and associated temps on the system (even more accurate way to ensure that the proper amount of refrigerant) and found that I had pretty well nailed the optimal charge based solely on suction/head pressure readings.

As for your observation that the Reatta AC airflow design is faulty (ie partial air in unwanted locations), that would seem to be indicative of problems with the mode door operation. On my '89 Reatta, I have ZERO air going ANYWHERE except the dash vents (and door defrost vents) when in Max AC or during hot weather in Auto as the blower modulates downward. The only time bi-level/defrost mode kicks in is during cooler fall/spring and warmer winter weather. Having owned many GM vehicles with automatic AC over the years, I found that the Reatta was one of the BEST designs as it is always in the background, doing its job, never blasting me when I did not want such and never doing stupid stuff as other designs behaved periodically. The system was a Cadillac design (who were responsible for MUCH of the Reatta design) and Cadillac has YEARS of experience with automatic AC (going back to the early 1960s).

David T

Edited September 28, 2013 by drtidmore (see edit history)

i had a ac shop recharge my dealer 134 converted ac. the best he could do was 49 degrees.that cost me 100 dollars.

Under what conditions was he able to ONLY achieve 49 degrees? R134a in the Reatta is capable of much better performance than 49 degrees. There are many particulars that impact how well ANY AC system will perform, both internal and external.

Do you know how much of the system was replaced at the time of conversion (accumulator, orifice, condenser)? If the condenser was not replaced, what is the state of the fins on the front (ie is there significant road hash damage that has accumulated over the years)

Also, this could be a problem with the temp modulating door on the inside. If it is partially open the air coming from the vents is getting a mix of cold evaporator air and HOT heater core air which would drive up the air temp. On these 25 year old systems, the mechanics of the air handling doors is always open to suspicion.

R134a charge level is more critical than is was with R12. Too much charge and you will get poor performance as will be the case with too little charge.

Investing in a GOOD infrared thermometer can help as a first step in diagnosing relative charge levels.

By removing the cowling cover near the wiper area, you have access to the refrigerant tube to/from the evaporator. The orifice is located inside the feed tube to the evaporator and can be identified as the one with the coupling a few inches before the curve leading into the evaporator. By measuring the temp before and after the orifice you can get a pretty good idea of the charge level (assuming the orifice tube is in good working order).

On a humid day, you can typically also visually see the transition as frost will be forming immediately AFTER the orifice as well as along the tube leading away from the evaporator, but a temp reading is a better method.

In a properly charged system running under steady state conditions (ie elevated RPMs, plenty of air to condenser) , immediately before the orifice tube, the temp will be relatively high and IMMEDIATELY after the orifice, the temp SHOULD be near or below freezing. The transition should be VERY obvious as before the orifice the refrigerant is a hot, high pressure liquid and immediately after the orifice it is lower pressure, cold liquid/gas mixture.

If the temp a few inches before the orifice is below ambient you likely have too LITTLE refrigerant in the system (ie it is turning to vapor before the orifice). On the Reatta, the low pressure switch will typically shut down the system in this situation, but in a borderline low charge, it might still keep the compressor running.

If the temp after the orifice is well above freezing and nearer the temp before the orifice, you likely have too MUCH refrigerant in the system (ie insufficient room for expansion after the orifice) OR a failed orifice. In this case the Reatta high pressure switch will likely shut down the system, but again at the margins it may not trip.

These simple tests DO NOT replace measuring the suction/pressure values and correcting for ambient temps as that is more accurate. And if you really want to ensure OPTIMUM charge, read up on superheat/subcooling and do the measurements and associated calculations.

As I mentioned, I did go with a new design variable orifice tube rather than the original fixed orifice. The variable orifice is stated to improve around town cooling when the condenser is NOT getting as much airflow.

David T

If a Reatta has all new parts, the correct amount of freon, and all the other mechanical things (doors, vents, etc.) working properly, you will never achieve a cold vent temperature if the low temp sensor is defective.

I beat my head against the wall for a long time trying to get my AC to cool before I discovered the low temp sensor was telling the BCM the temp at the evaporator was lower that what it actually was and the BCM was telling the ECM to kick out the compressor before the ideal temperature was reached.

As far as I know the low temp sensor is no longer available new. A good used one could probably be found but replacing it would require evacuating the system. What I did to solve the problem was ad a resister in parallel with the sensor to bring the point where the compressor kicks in and cycles in the correct range.

If you are having a similar problem, the first thing you should do is follow Mc_Reatta's directions for determining if the sensors are working properly.

Edited September 28, 2013 by Ronnie (see edit history)

Ronnie what size resistor did you use? Could you take a picture of what your set up looks like? Both the Red and vert are about 49 degrees at the dash vent. I thought that was normal, as both cars read exactly the same temp...

Dave, it has been a while since I did that. I will see if I can find any info about how I did it. I remember taking photos to use in a tutorial but I don't think I ever got the tutorial done.

This thread has some info about it. Start with post #16.

i had a ac shop recharge my dealer 134 converted ac. the best he could do was 49 degrees.that cost me 100 dollars.

After looking at these photos you need to find a new A/C guy. https://www.facebook.com/ACManLLC/photos_stream

Same repair guy I sent ol' yeller to.

Hey, where did the "Like" button go?

I own four Reattas, one of each year. And every one seems to need R12 every couple of years. No harm done, for if the charge is low, the BCM shuts off the compressor after maybe 15 minutes and displays "Charge AC" on the dash and a can or two of R12 fixes 'er right up.

But now I have two Reattas that seem to have a seized compressor. Upon startup, the compressor cycles a couples of times and after a mere 15 seconds, the clutch starts slipping and sparking so much that the engine almost dies. Since half of my Reatta stable has this problem, it seems it is very common.

Does the compressor need replacement? If so, does the forum still suggest a new GM compressor, as they did years ago, and if so, where is the best place to purchase one? Does the system need to be flushed?

Funny, the old extra long compressor on the '65 Riviera is still going strong. So much for newer cars.

Thank you for your help.

Update on the Reatta AC problems of over a year ago. I have not serviced the seized AC compressors on the 89K mile 1989 nor the 19K mile 1991, for I don't use those two cars much. I drive the 1988 more regularly, and at just over 100K miles, the compressor seized up. I removed the AC relay from the electrical box by the left headlight and continued to drive the car. On a long trip, the three rivets sheared off on the clutch assembly resulting in a loud banging as the loose and disconnected parts spun around the compressor shaft. After a 125 mile tow back home, I purchased a shorter drive belt to bypass the compressor and have been happily driving ever since.

But three compressor failures out of four Reattas are NOT good odds.

I ordered a new compressor via Ronnie as well as a new accumulator and orifice tube. Changing out the compressor was one of the most difficult auto repair jobs I have encountered in 50 years of working on cars. I gained access to the compressor by removing the battery and passenger side radiator hose. The rear coolant fan had to be removed to gain access to the front of the compressor. And, as the shop manual states, the starter has to go to get to the compressor inlet/outlet manifold.

A real PIA.

After a week of on and off work, it was all back together. A good 30 inch vacuum was pulled and it held perfect overnight. Without running the engine, added one can of R12 through the suction service port on the accumulator. At about 75 pounds system pressure, a loud hissing could be heard. The freon sniffer with its 18 inch probe showed a massive leak from the compressor. After the can of freon was used, the system pressure has stabilized at 45, although it will probably deplete to zero pressure overnight.

The compressor is in the front lower bowels of the car and just about impossible to sniff without removing the front of the car. Even the starter removal did not permit a good visual of the compressor without using a mirror. Next time I may remove the front exhaust manifold to give a good view of the compressor.

The new compressor does not use the green O rings at the manifold but a pair of black Delco PN# 152720. Either the compressor is leaking at the two black manifold seals or the shaft seal.

So, what's up? Maybe the compressor needs to run with the engine to lubricate the shaft seal. I added 8 oz. of 525 oil to the system. I dread tearing the car apart again. One thing I've learned...I will NEVER buy a transverse engine mounted FWD car again.

Thank you for your help in advance.

Russ with 4 Reatta's (3 broken).

I've NEVER had to remove a starter to replace the compressor. Removal of the inner wheel well and removal of the fans AND radiator made compressor R&R a snap.

Washer selection (for the manifold/compressor) can be a challenge to select the right pair. This is probably where your Freon leak is.

No, the engine doesn't need to run to lube the comp. seal.

Edited February 15, 2015 by harry yarnell (see edit history)

Russ,

Sorry to hear you are having problems. I don't know that I can offer much help. I'm not an AC mechanic. I can see by looking at my engine that it would be a job to change the compressor.

I've been looking at the FSM and I see a high pressure relief valve on the rear of the compressor. Do you think it could have popped off for some reason causing freon to escape and then it reseated? Maybe the compressor tried to compress oil causing it to pop? I'm just guessing in hopes of it being something simple like that so you don't have to pull the compressor again.

EDIT: I took a look a photo of the replacement compressor and I don't see anything on the rear of it that looks like the relief valve shown on the rear of the compressor shown in the FSM so that probably isn't the problem. I hope your problem turns out to be something simple.

Edited February 16, 2015 by Ronnie (see edit history)

I've NEVER had to remove a starter to replace the compressor. Removal of the inner wheel well and removal of the fans AND radiator made compressor R&R a snap.

Washer selection (for the manifold/compressor) can be a challenge to select the right pair. This is probably where your Freon leak is.

No, the engine doesn't need to run to lube the comp. seal.

I was hoping not to get involved with removing the radiator (transmission fluid lines) and the condenser (more places for leaks). I'm a believer in the "Don't take any more off than you have to" method.

Yes, the new compressor has a selection of various seals. I would have preferred the old style green O rings, but the end of the new compressor does not have the O ring groove.

Manual states to remove the starter. I think removing the front exhaust manifold is the way to go. Older cars have the compressor on top of the engine...a 30 minute job.

Russ,

Sorry to hear you are having problems. I don't know that I can offer much help. I'm not an AC mechanic. I can see by looking at my engine that it would be a job to change the compressor.

I've been looking at the FSM and I see a high pressure relief valve on the rear of the compressor. Do you think it could have popped off for some reason causing freon to escape and then it reseated? Maybe the compressor tried to compress oil causing it to pop? I'm just guessing in hopes of it being something simple like that so you don't have to pull the compressor again.

EDIT: I took a look a photo of the replacement compressor and I don't see anything on the rear of it that looks like the relief valve shown on the rear of the compressor shown in the FSM so that probably isn't the problem. I hope your problem turns out to be something simple.

I believe the replacement compressor does not have the high pressure relief valve.

RRR,

I'm not sure which model year you are working on but the manifold that attaches to the compressor may be different than what's on my 1990 Reatta. That being said, the photos below show what needed to be done to mount the '90 manifold to the new "Universal" compressor. The new compressor ports are stepped in such a way that the adapter that was included in the packet with the seal assortment had to be used. The adapter is a small aluminum ring that is press fitted into the manifold. It is used or not used depending on the vehicle the compressor is being installed on. The instructions weren't clear on which seals to use or perhaps the color code mentioned in the instructions didn't match the colors of the seals. So I chose the ones that seemed to make the most sense for the installation. Hope this helps.

John F.

..............Photo#1.............................................Photo #2............................................Photo #3.

..............Photo #4............................................Photo #5.

Edited February 18, 2015 by Machiner 55 (see edit history)

RRR,

I'm not sure which model year you are working on but the manifold that attaches to the compressor may be different than what's on my 1990 Reatta. That being said, the photos below show what needed to be done to mount the '90 manifold to the new "Universal" compressor. The new compressor ports are stepped in such a way that the adapter that was included in the packet with the seal assortment had to be used. The adapter is a small aluminum ring that is press fitted into the manifold. It is used or not used depending on the vehicle the compressor is being installed on. The instructions weren't clear on which seals to use or perhaps the color code mentioned in the instructions didn't match the colors of the seals. So I chose the ones that seemed to make the most sense for the installation. Hope this helps.

John F.

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Looks like you hit the answer. I did not use the red and blue seals/bushings. I used the black seals, which seemed to fit fine. Your pictures show the blue seal is thicker than the red seal, which doesn't make sense. I don't remember a stepped compressor end. The instructions are very vague on which seals to use. Or, maybe I'm just stupid. I probably should have have purchased a rebuilt compressor which used the old fashioned green rubber O rings and everything would have been fine. Thanks for the information John.

This is why you get a bag of many seals; some compressors and manifolds have 'steps' or 'recessions' that have to be compensated for with different seal washers.

Yea, I've never seen the 'instructions' for seal use helpful; it's more, trial and error.

I take the manifold and hoses off with the compressor, and fit them to the new compressor before installing the assy. on the car.

There should be a minimum 1/16" gap between the manifold and the compressor when tightened down.

Never have taken the exhaust manifold off. Can of worms...

Again, removal of the radiator makes the job MUCH easier.

Oh, I assume you're using a NEW compressor (Chinese?); they seem to be really well made.

I NEVER use a reman; junk.

This is why you get a bag of many seals; some compressors and manifolds have 'steps' or 'recessions' that have to be compensated for with different seal washers.

Yea, I've never seen the 'instructions' for seal use helpful; it's more, trial and error.

I take the manifold and hoses off with the compressor, and fit them to the new compressor before installing the assy. on the car.

There should be a minimum 1/16" gap between the manifold and the compressor when tightened down.

Never have taken the exhaust manifold off. Can of worms...

Again, removal of the radiator makes the job MUCH easier.

Oh, I assume you're using a NEW compressor (Chinese?); they seem to be really well made.

I NEVER use a reman; junk.

The only compressor for the '88 model listed in the Reatta Store is the ACDelco 15-22128 shown in the photo below. It is a new compressor. It appears to be identical to the compressor sold for the '89-'91 models with the exception of the electrical connector being different. I selected it for the Reatta Store because I prefer ACDelco products and the price was as good or better than a lot of the re-manufactured compressors. Should this compressor be considered inferior because it is a universal fit or do other new compressors not have the same problem? If this compressor is more problematic than other new compressors on the market I need to remove it from the Reatta Store. I never want to steer someone to an inferior part.

As you can see in the photo it has the stepped sleeves and seal assortment included with it that I see in John's photos. I didn't know that there was so much difficulty in selecting the correct seals for these compressors. I've looked online and I can't find the install instructions so I could take a look at them. If someone who has installed one of these ACDelco compressors would be kind enough to write up some simple instructions or tips for installing it properly I would be appreciate it. (Harry? John?) I will post the instructions on Reatta Owners Journal, and put a link to it in the Reatta Store, to help keep this problem from happening to other Reatta Owners.

I'm sorry for the problems Russ had installing it.

Not sure if the Delco unit is of Chinese manufacture, but should be decent either way (USA or china). Just the remanufactured jobs have never proven satisfactory.

And the cost of new is often the same as or close to reman.

Ronnie, I'll right up an article on R&R of a compressor. Havn't done one on a Reatta recently, and my mind isn't what it used to be.

Will have to go out and get under to refresh my memory, but it's zero degrees out there today...

Not sure if the Delco unit is of Chinese manufacture, but should be decent either way (USA or china). Just the remanufactured jobs have never proven satisfactory.

And the cost of new is often the same as or close to reman.

Ronnie, I'll right up an article on R&R of a compressor. Havn't done one on a Reatta recently, and my mind isn't what it used to be.

Will have to go out and get under to refresh my memory, but it's zero degrees out there today...

Compressor is a new Delco 15-22128 purchased through Ronnie's Amazon link. It looks like a nice unit less the over pressure switch. I don't believe there's anything wrong with the compressor. I expected it to be identical with the original one. It seems the manifold end is updated to fit a variety of cars.

The enclosed pictures show the instructions that come with a yellow, red, and green seals plus a short and long aluminum bushing. Evidently, I didn't catch the stepped compressor end and installed the wrong black bushings from the second package supplied with the new compressor.

John's great pictures sent in were extremely helpful. It would make me feel a little better if another Reatta owner could verify they used the same color seals and the same bushing (s) in the same positions.

Yes, I feel a little stupid, but my exercise in senior feebleness should help future Reatta owners installing a replacement compressor.

Thanks for your help. I never would have suspected the colored seals.

Not sure if the Delco unit is of Chinese manufacture, but should be decent either way (USA or china). Just the remanufactured jobs have never proven satisfactory.

And the cost of new is often the same as or close to reman.

Ronnie, I'll right up an article on R&R of a compressor. Havn't done one on a Reatta recently, and my mind isn't what it used to be.

Will have to go out and get under to refresh my memory, but it's zero degrees out there today...

Thanks for your offer to write up an article on changing out the compressor. I think it would be helpful to a lot of DIY mechanics like me. No need to get in a hurry. Not many compressors will be changed out on a Reatta this time of year. Stay warm and be safe!

Russ,

Thanks for posting the photos of the instructions. I agree that they are complicated and don't clearly show what parts should be used. Maybe we can get a write up and some photos that will clear up the confusion.

I really appreciate you getting your compressor from the Reatta Store and I hate you had this problem. I wish I knew of a new compressor that would be an exact fit that I could add to the Reatta Store. The only one that I ran across that claimed to be an exact fit was an off brand that I'd never heard of. I'm always leery of using brands that I'm not familiar with.

Have done several myself and no problem as long as everything is squealy clean. All have had the stepper O-rings. And here in central Florida, R134A does a fine job. I do not recall ever removing the starter, just the radiator (not hard).

For small jobs like a flush, new oriface, and fill, I have a local shop do & charges about $150 for that.

Reatta compressor started out as a DA-6 that had many problems and became an HR (Harrison Redesign) -6 that didn't. Typically a HR-6 will last about 100k miles if used a lot. If not then the seals may dry out in a decade or so.

"Black death" is a black goo that results from a massive compressor failure and is a royal pain to get out of everything though is usually confined to the compressor, manifold, condenser, pipes to the oriface and the oriface. If you don't get it all out it will clog the new oriface and pressures will skyrocket.