The 'Castle' 1921 Duesenberg Straight 8 Model A (Model J parts available)

Hey folks, I may be a newbie here, but surely most, if not all Duesie fans, will be familiar with the vehicle of which I speak. I work at Canepa Design in Scotts Valley, CA, where the 1919 or 1921 (depending on who you speak to), Duesenberg Straight 8 or Model A (depending on who you speak to), chassis #601 and engine #1001 or chassis #602 and engine #1000 (depending on who you speak to), is painstakingly and lovingly being returned to its original configuration after the circa 1927 conversion/upgrade to many model J parts. While some information regarding this vehicle may still be in question, information I've garnered thus far, leads me to refer to it as a 1921 Duesenberg Straight 8 Model A with body by Bender, chassis #601 and engine #1001 (chassis and engine numbers confirmed by the original identification plate).The primary parts changed were; tires, Buffalo Wire wheels, ft. hubs, rear axles with hubs, front and rear bumpers, headlamps, some steering components, as well as a few other items changed along the way. Regardless, as this vehicle progresses through the restoration process, a few parts have become available to help some other Duesenberg owner complete their Model J projects. In particular the parts we are currently looking to determine a value and ultimately sell are both front, dual-post mount, headlamps (Guide Lamp we believe, based on markings on the reflector bucket and lenses - although some have reported, based on old photos, that they may be early C.M. Hall or Bausch and Lomb) and the fender to fender mounting bar with four posts. Also, the front and rear, upper and lower bumpers, retaining plates with hardware and mounting brackets. And, both front wheel hubs with Wire Wheel Corp of A. Buffalo NY (Buffalo Wire Wheel) C6 wheel locks, both rear axles (hollow) with integral hubs and Buffalo C6 wheel lock (all wheel locks carry the Duesenberg name plate in the center of the cap). And to top it off, all six matching Buffalo 78 spoke wire wheels with tires (note: five tires are Firestone High Speed Gum Dipped Heavy Duty 6-Ply and one is a U.S. Royal Tempered Rubber Heavy Duty 6-Ply, all are 7.00-19 and black-wall. Also the tires allegedly pre-date WWII and thus are suitable for show purpose only). I have pictures available to anyone who is interested. If you can help me with determining a value, or may be interested in purchasing these parts for your own project or inventory, please contact me via the links on this forum. Thanks for reading. P.S., the car is nearing completion and we will be posting more photos of it here and at our company website: www.canepa.com

Well, it didn't take long. But, an avid, individual collector has stepped forward with an "open checkbook" wishing to purchase all of our take off parts from the 'Castle' Duesenberg. As inviting as that sounds, we must respect fair and honest business practices. So we are looking to the Duesenberg, classic and antique car community to assist us in determining the current market value of these parts. While my post of yesterday indicated the primary parts that we currently have photographed for sale, I'll be posting a list of all parts soon as well as some representative photos. Any and all assistance would be greatly appreciated. Keep watching...

This started out sounding like you wanted to help out the restoration community "If you can help me with determining a value, or may be interested in purchasing these parts for your own project or inventory, please contact me via the links on this forum" But now that someone has stepped up it now seems you are after the absolute last nickel you can get! Which is it? Howard Dennis

I agree with Howard...if someone has stepped up with, as you put it, an "open checkbook", then work a fair deal with him and don't go shopping for the last penny you can get....THAT'S what's " fair", again, your word...

Thanks for your reply. It is true that someone following the progress of this vehicle has been aware that parts may be coming available and now has come forward and requested to purchase the lot. That being said, by using the term "open checkbook", I am saying that price does not appear to be an issue for them they're willing to pay whatever we ask. However, as I wrote in my post of earlier today "As inviting as that sounds, we must respect fair and honest business practices. So we are looking to the Duesenberg, classic and antique car community to assist us in determining the current market value of these parts." And, what I meant by that, is that since there isn't much information available currently or historically as to what some of these parts are worth, we are asking a helpful and knowledgeable community to assist us in determining what is fair and reasonable. By "fair and reasonable" I'm saying that we do not wish to overcharge someone simply because they have the financial resources to pay almost anything. That would be an injustice! But, on the other hand, it would be an injustice to our own company not to ask a fair and reasonable price for these parts, based on their condition and the current fair market value. Honestly, given that they are being purchased in a lot, we'll be selling them below what they would fetch if sold individually, simply because it will basically eliminate all of the time and monies involved in posting these parts through classified ads, forums, holding in inventory, shipping, et cetera. Thank you again for your input. I hope I have clarified our request. Getting the "last nickel" would be easy. We want to do what's right. And, that's not always so easy. Which is why we're asking the community for help.

Thanks for your reply. It is true that someone following the progress of this vehicle has been aware that parts may be coming available and now has come forward and requested to purchase the lot. That being said, by using the term "open checkbook", I am saying that price does not appear to be an issue for them they're willing to pay whatever we ask. However, as I wrote in my post of earlier today "As inviting as that sounds, we must respect fair and honest business practices. So we are looking to the Duesenberg, classic and antique car community to assist us in determining the current market value of these parts." And, what I meant by that, is that since there isn't much information available currently or historically as to what some of these parts are worth, we are asking a helpful and knowledgeable community to assist us in determining what is fair and reasonable. By "fair and reasonable" I'm saying that we do not wish to overcharge someone simply because they have the financial resources to pay almost anything. That would be an injustice! But, on the other hand, it would be an injustice to our own company not to ask a fair and reasonable price for these parts, based on their condition and the current fair market value. Honestly, given that they are being purchased in a lot, we'll be selling them below what they would fetch if sold individually, simply because it will basically eliminate all of the time and monies involved in posting these parts through classified ads, forums, holding in inventory, shipping, et cetera. Thank you again for your input. I hope I have clarified our request. Getting the "last nickel" would be easy. We want to do what's right. And, that's not always so easy. Which is why we're asking the community for help.

The prices for most Model J parts are fairly well established. Put them on eBay and post a link in the ACD forum.

The chassis number was typically stamped on the top face of the front cross member that carries the front engine mount and the brackets that mount the radiator. It is on the left side near the v-pulley that drives the fan. Early chassis were stamped with larger numbers than were used later. A frame and axles that came from Montana had the original number 333 defaced, and the 1923 serial number 808 was stamped in two places nearby in the smaller numbers. This could possibly have been used for one of the horizontal valve prototype cars, and re-used for a later production car with truss rods fitted that were not used on the early cars. You should find the engine number stamped near the joint face with the head on the left side of the block at the front. Sometimes the engine number can also be found on the top face of the head where the cam cover seals. You are likely to have a reversed gear change pattern side-for-side, compared to the conventional positioning used later. This came by changing forks on the gear selector rods. This probably came about because Fred's personal car was a Buick with the reversed pattern when they built the first horizontal valve prototype that was shown at New York. There is an article and photos including the high camshaft horizontal valve engine in the Show issue of MoToR for January 1921. If you can get copy of that from a library somewhere, that is conclusive support for your 1921 dating. Early production was slow, and car 630 was imported to Mexico in June 1922. (I would have to go to the file to check the exact date.).

Beware that the cylinder walls are thin. You probably need to sleeve them if you need to bore far oversize. You will probably have the circular crank webs with wide copper rings soldered on to complete the oilways. Fred Roe advised me that these have to come off to clean the channels.

Article on this car is in the NY Times: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/11/automobiles/its-a-duesie-the-first-in-fact.html