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1952 Buick Super Straight 8 - Know nothing and just getting started!


Dale's Buick

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Hello friends...I'm back! Spent 3 weeks in Israel, came back with a lovely bacterial thing (no it was NOT Ebola)....then my son got married this past weekend. (I couldn't make this stuff up if I wanted to). All that said...I'm back! Transmission was leaking from the other end before I left, so it's been repaired. It still won't crank up, but with the rebuilt fuel pump installed, it's only needing some TLC to get it going. Question for getting me back on the road.....as I've fixed everything mechanical I can think of. I'm assuming this is some kind of vapor lock? So, would a simple electric fuel pump like Robert installed take care of getting gas to the engine when I first crank her up, so the mechanical pump can take over once it's running? I am trying to get back in gear here (yes the pun was intended), so what's the thought friends? and hello once again!

Dale in Kentucky

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I'll second John's suggestion, if the carb is out of gas a bit down the carb throat is a good idea, I always put the air cleaner back on, so in case of a backfire it won't set the carb on fire! The air cleaner is an efective flame arrestor. I learned the hard way, a very long time ago now. If it won't keep going, then "Wheelnut's" is good too, as it doen't take much of a leak on the suction side to stop it from working right.

Also, check for gas leks around all of the fittings when you do get it running.

Keith

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Maybe a bad fuel line? Could be sucking air through a leak somewhere between the tank and the pump.

I don't know if it's been mentioned anywhere yet, but I've heard of old flexible fuel and brake lines swelling up on the inside and closing off flow, even though they look fine on the outside. Sort of like hardening of the arteries. The only cure is to replace. Might be worth investigating. Good luck!

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  • 1 month later...

Back at last! Reran a new gas line (took 3 of them before I finally got one bent without crimping it). I learned a highly technical thing that I want to share with the forum. You know that little arrow on the fuel filter that shows FLOW? Well, lo and behold, when you put it on backwards, IT DOESN'T GET FUEL! Had two good mechanic buddies scratching their heads, as we cleared all of the fuel lines, pump rebuilt, etc, and still no gas. (when I set up my "know nothing" tag line, I meant it!!! lol

Got a radiator hose leak into my passenger floor board, so have to take it to my garage friends to get it on the lift, but hopefully it's just a c-clamp needing tightening. Assuming the engine is done (for this season anyway), looking for some last minute and winter things to work on. First, if I put an auxiliary 6V electric fuel pump on, does it allow free flow when I'm not using it? I've already sent Robert the question as he's babysat me from day one, but asking in public too! Secondly, if it's about ready to talk paint, how does the chrome and stainless steel come off? I can see screws on door trim, and some of the parts. But on the 3 ports and the side curve parts....are there clips or nuts holding them on inside the door? Have to be really careful to document, as it will be Spring before I put anything back on, so doing my homework in advance. Also may take off some of the gauges (speedometer stopped working) and clean them up this winter...but same issue....make sure I can reverse the project in the Spring. Suggestions and warnings on any of this? Thanks friends!

Dale in Kentucky

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  • 4 weeks later...

Well, we actually made it about 10 miles today! My mechanic buddy got the 6V ancillary fuel line on after 3 weeks....and it worked wonderfully! I've got the heater thermostat off for a rebuild as it was leaking, and have another leak somewhere, but will find it shortly I hope. So once these minor issues get done, it's on to gauges, and wet sanding, as I am listening to my purist buddies, and for now going with keeping the original paint. Hope this works! lol. The fuel pump was a work of art, and since I didn't do it, have no problems showing a pro's work. Send tips on the wet sanding, and pics to come when I can!

Dale in Kentuckypost-95021-143142869623_thumb.jpg

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I don't get how that fuel pump arrangement can work. Looks like it will just recirculate in that short loop back into the pump without a check valve.

You noticed that too. The pump appears to be an Airtex that the stock mechanical pump can pull fuel through if the Airtex is not turned on. So in this case a loop would not be needed. Some pumps like the Carter that I used will not allow fuel to be pulled through so a loop and check valve is needed.

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Willie

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He had to build the fittings, and apparently he used a one way valve on both ends, so the fuel could only push through. I can't remember the pump brand, but it wouldn't allow fuel to flow without being turned on, so the circular hook up apparently was needed. I'll verify this with my friend shortly, and post back if I misunderstood. Thanks!

Dale

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  • 3 months later...

OK, the snow is gone, and Spring is almost back, so I hope to start posting back here again shortly! I've run the engine every week while up on jacks, and other than some radiator leaks, all looks ok so far. I'll be starting to wet sand the paint as soon as it's warm enough, and polishing chrome. I need to take the radio out and get it working, but scared to take it out....putting things back is NOT my strong suit! I'll be reading over the wet sanding tips from all of you shortly, and radio help is also going to be appreciated. See you soon family!

Dale in Kentucky

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Well, nice to here from you again after all these months. Still snow on the ground up here, but hopefully it will all be gone soon!

The radio is usually fairly easy to take out on these cars. This is how is works on my car, and I suspect yours might be the same. There's two bolts that hold it in position at the bottom, you can see them if you lay on the floor and look up, and then in behind the radio knobs there's nuts that screw on over the tuning and volume shafts, a power line, and the antenna lead in which goes into the side. The knobs are held in with small clips, and they can be the trickest. Its' a bit hard to describe, but if you look closely there is a small indent at back on the outer knob, and you can put a very small flat bladed screw driver in there and push the clip (which you can't see) then the knob should come off easily.

Keith

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Keith, thank you! I would have had no clue about the clips....so the screwdriver trick sounds perfect. Hoping I can get them back on with some needle nose pliers too! lol Trying to build a park behind my house while working on the car....plus working and teaching part time.....why didn't anybody talk me into waiting on this! Thanks friends, back soon!

Dale

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Dale, I cannot remember for sure, but I think that you need to push the clip forward, as you pull the knob backwards off of the shaft. It's a bit of an arkward thing, at least for me, but but the knob pushes straight on, when you're ready to re install.

Keith

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  • 3 weeks later...

OK.....you guys have me ready to start wet sanding, ready to pull the radio and work on it.....but the one thing I need to fix first is the windshield wiper. I've had it rebuilt (to fix the rebuild I did...lol), but just barely any motion. I'm sure I have some bad places in the hose, but is anyone aware of a post or pics that show the layout of the wiper pressure hose? I'm afraid once I start changing it up, I'll lose track of where I'm supposed to go. Any suggestions?

Thanks!

Dale in Kentucky

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  • 1 month later...

I had the misfortune in that I had to move my car across the street to another rented garage.  Sadly, this one has twice the space, better lighting, and worse than anything, it has air conditioning!  Seriously, this couldn't have worked out better, as I've started wet sanding the body down.  I watched all of the you tubes I could find, and read everyone's comments, but while the metal is totally solid, there isn't any paint under the more heavily rusted areas.  So my best guess at this point is to keep wet sanding and just get everything smooth, leaving as much of the pain left as possible.  Then I can figure out whether to clear coat the result or figure out another strategy.  I need to reread everyone's posts and figure out what step gets me shiny once I've got everything smoothed out though.  The chromed pot metal is pitted but not horribly, but the stainless steel is very clean for this old a car, and I am itching to finish the body and get to it!   Back soon, and hopefully with pictures.

Dale in Kentucky

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Edited by Dale's Buick (see edit history)
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  • 3 weeks later...

post-137232-0-80841900-1436027663_thumb.post-137232-0-45002900-1436027487_thumb.post-137232-0-61146100-1436027498_thumb.Working on wet sanding Beulah, and with my oldies playing in the background, loving this part!  I'm having to use 400 sandpaper to take the rust down, but even so, it's shining up pretty good.  Going back to everyone's painting tips, and knowing I'll be working up to 1200 and maybe even 2000 to shine her up when I get that far.  I did come to one revelation that seems very touchy among we Buick owners, whether to paint or not.  Easy answer, I am sticking with the patina, as I can always paint it in the future, but you sure can't go back!  I would have it professionally painted anyway, so I'm sticking with the original.  Now, here's my questions of the week!  One of you said to stay away from wax as the polymers available are far better.  So would you suggest I seal it by hand, spray a clear coat on, or something else?  Secondly, on a 52 Buick Super, the upholstery was a cloth (forget the color but have it written down somewhere).  Where there any other options on upholstery?  Wondering if a good vinyl or even leather was available.  I'll stick with cloth if that was the only choice, so just looking down that path.   Next question, I polished up a lot of the pot metal and stainless emblems, but one of the Super scripts on the back fender reacted badly to the Mother's chrome polish, and now lots of copper color showing through.  Is there any kind of chrome paint or something that can repair the look without rechroming?    Here are a few pictures of the sanding progress to date.   Happy Fourth of July friends!

Dale's Buick

Edited by Dale's Buick (see edit history)
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I ran across a link to a file that listed all the interior trim codes.  It may have been in the Postwar forum.  Search for 1932-1975 Buick Trim Codes.

 

For '52 Super - looks like 2-tone gray cloth, 2-tone green cloth, and if it's a 56R, black pattern cloth with gray cloth bolster, light gray cloth with red leather bolster, and dark green cloth with light green leather bolster.  So no all-over leather.

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Glad to see you have a great garage.  But it looks like Beulah is going to need some paint after all.  Since it's a two tone, I'd recommend just painting the roof for now.  That will put a halt to further deterioration up there where it's tougher to reach and maintain. 

 

PS: Are the rest of the vehicles yours?  I'd love to see some pictures of the 78/9 (?) Electra 2 dr in the background.

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Dale, all that bare metal will need some protection, and to keep the patina, you might be best off using a semi gloss clear coat. In my area they are available in large spray cans (sometimes called "rattle cans"), if you're planning on doing it yourself, which it sounds like you are. The semi gloss, in my opinion give you two advantages, one, the surface will tend to match the patina better, as an aged surface usually isn't glossy, and second, it will be more forgiving of spraying technique, and the fact you are using spray cans, rather than from a spray gun. This will give you the protection that you need, and at some time later on you can get it professionally done to original if you want. Just my few cents worth.

Keith

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  • 3 weeks later...

Well, I felt like the Karate Kid with "wax on, wax off" for about 4 hours a day for 3 days, but I love the results!   Had to use 400 grit wet sanding to have any impact on the rust, but going to about 1200 or maybe even 2000 to shine up everything.  I've gotten several suggestions of either to seal it with a polymer or just WD40 wax it, and at this point the WD40 sounds safer?   Going to buy a cheap polisher this week and have it as shiny as I can get her before doing it so if there's any last words before I move forward, shout soon?   Thanks all!  Pictures of how she looks now attached!

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 5 weeks later...

Every week, a new surprise...some good and some not so much.   Put the WD-40 wax job all over...and it actually does look like it's a shiny patina....and I like it even if everyone else keeps asking me when I'm going to paint it!   However....putting my newly polished steering wheel chrome horn back together...kept hearing a clicking sound....and then smoke came billowing out of both of the horns.  Got the wires loose pretty quick...but not sure if I did damage or just blew a fuse.   I just took the horn off to clean it...so never dreamed it would go nuts putting it back on.  I have NO electrical talent here...so is this a replace the horn relay thing...or trace all the horn wires....or some special trick on putting the horn /steering wheel assembly back together, or all of the above?   I'm close to driving Beulah, so just nervous I will set her on fire before she gets some road time!    Suggestions my friends?

Dale

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The horn button activates a relay. The relay then connects the horns to the battery directly, so the horns get direct power without sending all that power up the steering column. 

 

It sounds to me like the steering wheel horn button is being activated, which, depending on how the horn button is attached, could mean the assembly it too tight.  But the second problem appears to be in the horns.  They should have blown their notes.  If they did not then the full battery power may have damaged them. 

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  The horn relay is insulated from the car body. Not grounded. Battery power, from a post on the voltage regulator, to one post on the horn relay. Power from another post on horn relay to horns. A ground wire runs from the horn relay to the steering column then up to the horn "button", all the way insulated from the column. Depressing the horn button grounds the wire, thereby grounding the relay and sending power to the horns. Full power should not have harmed the horns, as that is supplied from the relay. I do not understand the smoke from the horns. All that should have happened is LOUD honking.

 

  Ben

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Dale,

I've made horns work on my '51 41D.  The circuit is exactly as Ben describes.  You should be able to check horn function with a jumper wire direct from battery to the terminal on the horn.  I'd take the existing wire off the horn just in case there's something not right with the relay.  If the horn just "smokes", there's something bad inside the horn.  If they're bad, I don't know that anyone would rebuild - probably lower cost to just find another set.  They rarely come up on ebay, but I've contacted people from there who appear to be parting something out to ask for parts that aren't advertised.  But if you check the horns and they make good sound, then the problem is out in the relay or the steering column.  Could be both (both were bad in my 41D).

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There is mention of some cloth or textile insulating washer or something? It acts like the current is running constant rather than just completing the grounding? I have screws going through the chrome horn piece into the steering wheel, and no washers or anything. Did I skip a part reassembling?

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  • 2 months later...

Moving at the speed of molasses on Beulah...lol. One of the two horns working, patina looks good to me and smooth as glass. Cracked windshields replaced, and upholstery ordered. My three grown sons joined me for a neighborhood drive, and had a blast until radiator fluid came pouring out of the heater under the front passenger seat. I'm tempted to just bypass it just like I did on the defroster. Also have to figure out if my speedometer just came loose or broke. I would normally be frustrated at this point, but getting behind that monster wheel and waving at everybody is just too much fun! With 90 percent done, I refuse to let the last 10 percent beat me! Happy Thanksgiving Buick family!

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 Keep at it Dale! Sounds like great progress so far. One the problems one always encounters when getting an old car going again is the kind of thing that happened to you with the heater. Stuff that gets put into use after sitting for years, even decades, works for a while then gives you grief. The only way through it to do just what you're doing. Do some work, drive it, if all's well, drive it some more, and then bit further as you get more confident. Make sure you take some tools, and extra fluids and that so that you can get her home if trouble comes to visit.

 Keep posting, like to hear about your progress.

 Keith

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  • 1 month later...

Happy New Years all!  Beulah got winterized and put to bed, with her outer as complete as I can get her.  I'll begin working on the interior come warm weather, but a little steel wool and polish on the dash already got me excited as it shined up beautifully!  As an aside, I turned up with Esophagile Cancer just after Thanksgiving, so with one esophagus less, I'm working on getting back on my feet to continue my project.  Feeling stronger every day, hope to be back to work around Valentine's Day.  Thank all of you for keeping me in your circle, as it helps a ton to read everyone's progress and posts.  Here's what she looks like at the end of 2015....see you all soon!

 

P.S.  Robert a.k.a. shadetree was my mentor for the chrome painting.....the front and back were hand done using his cork technique....and it turned out awesome!   Thanks buddy!

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