identification of Harry Loper's automobile

This car belonged to Harry Loper of Springfield Illinois and was destroyed in the race riots there in August of 1908.

This looks similar to the bigger model Northern that I commented on here - http://forums.aaca.org/f170/what-no-12-a-348226.html - but I think there are differences. The tubular front axle does not show in the photos. In fact it is hard to tell what the mechanical layout is. Is it possible to enlarge the 'after' photos.

yes, that sure looks like it, a Northern, built in Detroit, about 1904. you guys are good. the older a car seems the harder to identify.

Too many similarities in the pic at wikipedia and http://forums.aaca.org/f170/what-no-12-a-348226.html to consider anything else?

was thinking it was a Studebaker, and kept getting sidetracked, have been trying to figure this one out for way longer than I'd admit.

thank you for the help.

and here is a larger and clearer pic of the "after" the 3 in the first post are copies newsprint photos.

one more thought, there is a big difference in the angle of the steering column. That would maybe indicate a later model? '07 or '08?

couldn't be later than August 1908.

a better picture of Loper's automobile, from The State Journal Register, Springfield, IL>

still unsure of it being an '04 or '05 Northern, as the steering column an rear fenders different, could be an '07 or '08, or a different auto all together?

Hmmm, might not be a Northern. Maybe something built in Springfield, Ill?

I'm thinking you are spot on with it being a Northern, nzcarnerd.

the things that are right far outnumber those that are different, the hood and grille in particular.

have been looking at a lot of the old cars from that time period, and seems just like modern autos, the grille is the first place to look for the manufacturer to put their style.

so maybe with so many manufacturers at that time, and so many models, and basically hand-built, in very small numbers, that it's as good as it's going to get.

I did notice reading the 1905 brochure on wiki, that they describe a Model K 30hp Touring model, out of 7 models, and then picture a 20hp Touring, extrapolating from that, see the hood on Loper's car is very similar, yet a little longer, and maybe the steering column would be different angle for the different suspension.

That, or the possibility of being a later model, '06 to '08, was destroyed in August '08.

looking thru old car advertisements, so many manufacturers a hundred years ago, but several models jumped out as likely.

three in particular, Dorris, American, and Deere...any thoughts?

Sure does look like a Deere.

here's an ad for the 1907 Dorris, sure has most of the right features, steering column, etc...

Sure does look like a Deere.

I was leaning towards the Dorris, and made in St. Louis, a hundred miles away.

although, the headlights are like the Deere's...I dunno...

yes, I'm going with 1907 Dorris, made in St. Louis. unless one of the resident experts shows an error in my eye. The steering column is right, the lights, the fenders, wheels, seats, rear door handle, gear and brake arms with the funny looking chain or something, the horn setup, and that funny looking little box or bag located just behind the front fender, etc.

enough to say for sure? or still a maybe? them old guys are very similar in a lot of ways.

side by side of Loper's and the 1907 Dorris...not very neatly done.

still hoping for some expert opinion on this automobile. more than curiosity, it's part of history.

side by side of Loper's and the 1907 Dorris...not very neatly done.

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Neatly done! in my opinion. I think the Dorris with the three persons is a 1906. One difference I see is the rear seat arm rest area is level with the door for 1906 and raised slightly for 1907. The 1907 rear seat appears to be lengthened too.

Neatly done! in my opinion. I think the Dorris with the three persons is a 1906. One difference I see is the rear seat arm rest area is level with the door for 1906 and raised slightly for 1907. The 1907 rear seat appears to be lengthened too.

thank you, was trying to make it easier to compare. it is the closest I've found in details, although, like the seat/door fit, is not identical.

comparing and researching old articles on the riot, has become a passion to identify the car. has been referred to as "luxury automobile" "one of the first in Springfield" and more, but not the actual make or model.

so probably or definitely a Dorris? either is better than my "maybe it's a Dorris, or could be a..."

Dorris would have certainly been a luxury automobile built in the area, so it's plausible. It certainly looks extremely close to me. I'll see if we have records of an early Dorris being sold to a Harry Loper (no promises).

Dorris would have certainly been a luxury automobile built in the area, so it's plausible. It certainly looks extremely close to me. I'll see if we have records of an early Dorris being sold to a Harry Loper (no promises).

Built in St Louis, correct? A lot of interesting history and background on that automobile as well as Harry Loper and the Springfield race riot of 1908. I have a lot of newspaper clippings and related info. Also have a pic of Harry Loper, and other stuff. Part of my genealogy and Springfield Il history.

That's Harry Loper in the passenger seat w light jacket. Interesting story behind Springfield automobiles. Made in Springfield Massachusetts, this photo and story was about building 300 of them in Springfield Illinois.

What leads you to believe it isn't that same Springfield you have him pictured in? It's certainly plausible even though the marker lights don't match since they're easily swapped.

What leads you to believe it isn't that same Springfield you have him pictured in? It's certainly plausible even though the marker lights don't match since they're easily swapped.

The picture above with Harry loper seated states it is from 1910. The riot that destroyed their restaurant and car was August 1908. The first pic in this thread with the two ladies being chauffeured is Harry Lopers auto before the riot. The riot aftermath pics are that car, not the Springfield pictured above.

I'm really leaning towards a Dorris, but newspaper accounts at the time never say, and haven't found anything more definite.

here's a link to the Springfield...http://sangamoncountyhistory.org/wp/?p=1206

there's lots of info online and I have most of the newspaper accounts of the riot and related.