1934 Packard Preservation

Don, check out this thread about restoring antique single stage paint.........a lot of good info, and in my opinion it makes a lot of sense. In fact, I'm following this process on my '54 Studebaker (with a weathered early '70s paint job) and it is making a big difference. A lot of info, I had to read it thru several times.

The Secret to Removing Oxidation and Restoring a Show Car Finish to Antique Single Stage Paints - Auto Geek Online Auto Detailing Forum

Paul, I wanted to get back to you again on this. I looked at this whole forum article which was very well written and photographed. He is basically using many applications of the old standby, Meguiar's #7 Mirror Glaze. I used gallons of that stuff back in the old days when I painted and detailed cars with lacquer paint jobs and it worked great. I had an old bottle of it so I tried it on the hood and part of a fender on my Packard. I put it on heavy like he says and rubbed it in well then let it sit for about 30 minutes. The first thing I noticed is that it took off a lot of old paint, almost like using polish had done before. The second thing was when I came back and buffed it off it left a good gloss but felt like it had softened the paint in some areas, leaving marks when I rubbed. I let it dry some more and then the marks buffed away. When I coated it with wax later it actually dulled the gloss slightly and took off more paint. Bottom line, I thought it was too abusive to the paint I have left to use anywhere else. Have you noticed this on your car? Am I missing something here?

Don,

Hate to hear it didn't improve your paint. The paint on my Stude is an old enamel paint job from the early '70s. It was very oxidized and not thick enough to use a very agressive compound on. When I had waxed it before (with a cleaner type wax) it looked good for a while but then started oxodizing under the wax again. The #7 seems to have 'fed' the paint and covered with a coat of wax looks really good from 20 feet, and even from 10 feet. On the hood and the trunk lid I also used the Meguiar's #80 which is similar but with some cleaning action (the type that progessively breaks down to finer particles) and my Porter Cable Orbital polisher. That helped the hood and trunklid somewhat; the top of the car is high enough that unless someone is at least as tall as me they can't see up there anyway.

I didn't notice it softening the paint, but mine is enamel........

I'm glad that you tested a smaller area before doing the whole car, but feel bad that it worsened it.

Thanks Paul. Nothing to feel bad about, it didn't actually worsen the paint, it is shinier than before and no harm done. I think the issue may be that I'm dealing with OLD nitrocellulose lacquer which I just have no experience with. I think I'm back to using wax only.

Yes Don it is amazing how light the steering is once you get going. Good to see you've changed back to oil. Can I ask a favour of you. Please can you tell me if your exhaust manifold has washers under the nuts and if so what size are they? I know that they are 5/16" hole size but how thick are they and what outside diameter? Thanks T

Terry, the exhaust manifolds do use flat washers, they are 5/8" diameter and 3/32" thick. They look like steel but the nuts are brass. The manifolds were removed and gaskets replaced before I bought the car so I do not know if the fasteners are original. Here are some pictures:

Cheers Don, Exactly what I wanted. T

If you saw my "6 Volt Optima Battery Mounting" thread on the General forum (http://forums.aaca.org/f169/6-volt-optima-battery-mounting-354717.html) You know that I recently had trouble with the battery and charging system. My original battery died and it turned out this was caused by a fried solid state cutout on the generator which created a massive voltage drain. I ordered a new Optima battery and a replacement cutout, here is the rest of the story.

My first issue was coming up with a container for the rather small Optima that would fit securely in the original Packard open battery tray and keep everything from moving around. After considering commercially available battery boxes and replica battery cases my frugality kicked in and I decided to build a wooden box. I bought a six foot long 1 by 8 for about $7.00, the 7 1/2" width of this board was actually a perfect fit in the tray leaving about 1/4" on each side. The same board screwed to a base resulted in a height slightly over 8" which was a good match for the tray height - I was very lucky! I cut the rest of the boards to size, screwed the box together and painted it black. I mounted the battery inside on an angle, bent some steel corner brackets and used them to hold the battery base lugs to the bottom of the box.

Next step - Disconnect switch...

There was nothing I could do to avoid the cutout failure that caused my problem, but if I would have disconnected my battery when the car was sitting I may not have lost the original battery. It had one of those cheap plastic knob terminal disconnects on the battery but I never used it because it did not appear to have any voltage drain and you have to remove the drivers seat cushion to get at the battery, what a hassle. I know, I know, pretty stupid! I was very lucky I only lost a battery, any old car with original fabric covered wiring is a potential firetrap and one way to guard against problems is by using the disconnect ALL the time. I was advised to use a quality Cole-Hersee rotary switch which I was able to order at my local NAPA store. I decided to mount the switch on the metal riser under the front seat, facing the firewall, and cut it into the positive ground side of the battery. I loosened the trim panel on the riser and used a Greenlee hole punch to make a 3/4" hole, then cut the trim panel to match.

Hold it - I have to thank the guy who invented the Greenlee hole punch, what a great tool! I've had a basic set for 40 years and bought a box of additional sizes on Ebay 10 years ago. I don't use them often but every time I do I am very impressed at how perfectly they work. This time I used the same punch to make a hole in normal sheetmetal but also in a heavy 3/32" thick washer, great results on both.

Next step - New ground cables...

The original ground cable was a very funky looking metal mesh strap attached to the frame at the back side. The new disconnect switch location is at the opposite end so I needed new cables. I already owned some 0 gauge copper cable from a previous car so I bought new Fusion terminal ends at NAPA which came with flux and solder already inside. I measured, cut, and stripped the cable then heated the terminals with a propane torch. When the solder melts just push the wire in and hold in place until the solder sets, gives a very strong connection and looks good. I attached the ground to a large lug fastened to the front of the battery support which is riveted to the frame, the lug is right under the switch location. Once I had the cables made and connected I used some large washers and nuts on the original battery bracket studs to lock the battery box in place, now everything is solid with no movement.

Next and Last step - New cutout...

This whole problem was caused by a cheap Chinese solid state cutout which melted and shorted out, causing a severe voltage drain and a dead battery. I opened up the generator and was lucky that there was no damage to the armature. Jason Smith at Advanced Electrical Rebuilders (Advanced Electrical Rebuilders - Antique Auto - Marine - Agricultural - Industrial) was recommended to me and he was very helpful. Unfortunately the original Owen Dyneto cutout/regulator is not readily available but he supplied me with a NOS Delco Remy heavy duty mechanical cutout that is a direct fit and should work fine for my needs. I installed it today and intend to have the car back on the road tomorrow - I wonder what is next?

Hi, Don. That's a pretty nifty battery box you've built for your Optima. How does the battery perform when cranking the motor over? Any faster than the normal battery? Wise move on the shut off switch saves a lot of heart ache if you did get a serious short. I'm sure the old girl still has a few surprises up her sleeve for you to contend with. Cars of that vintage usually do and when you least expect it. T

Hi, Don. That's a pretty nifty battery box you've built for your Optima. How does the battery perform when cranking the motor over? Any faster than the normal battery? Wise move on the shut off switch saves a lot of heart ache if you did get a serious short. T

Thanks Terry. It seems to crank over about the same but I never had a any difficulty with that until the old battery died.

My car has the original air cleaner / silencer which is a long round unit which fits on the carburetor with a 90 degree mount and has the air filter in the front. The filter is made from coiled copper mesh which is oiled to catch the dirt. I noticed that it was quite dirty but unfortunately there is no way to remove the filter media from the giant housing. The factory service notes say to "slosh it around in a bucket of gasoline" but that did not sound like something I wanted to do. I posted on the PAS forum to see if there was a better way but there really isn't other than using less dangerous solvents. Some other owners said they had just replaced it with a modern filter that was more efficient and easier to clean. Purists may cringe but I took their advice and made my first (reversable) modification to the 34. After taking measurements I bought a K&N aftermarket air filter. It is 6" diameter and 4" high with an offset mounting flange. The filter media is oiled gauze covered with wire mesh molded into rubber top and base plates plus a chrome top cover for a little flash. It fits great and the offset allowed me to have plenty of clearance to all nearby parts. Since driving this car is my main purpose I figured this is good for the motor. It was also suggested that the original unit's size and restriction contributed to hot weather fuel overheating and associated problems, I really haven't noticed much of that but we'll see if it makes any difference in driveability. Naturally I will preserve the original unit and use it for shows. Has anyone else done this?

The last month has been typical Texas summer, high 90s or 100s with no rain and lows in the 80s so not much has happened with this car. It tends to run hot anyway so these temps have not been friendly. I still drive it 2 to 3 times a week but have to go in the morning when it is the coolest and I don't stay out too long. It's not just the car, I can't take the heat too well myself. I've worked on the car a few times but in a closed garage with the air on - yes, I have an 18,000 btu window air conditioner in my garage, what a wimp.

I actually got a few things done today that need to be done. I've been relubricating a few things like spring shackles that aren't connected to the Bijur system plus getting some oil into the kingpins to replace the grease that was incorrectly used previously. I also cleaned and refilled the rear shock absorbers, like the front end one was low but the other was almost full.

Most of my time today was spent buffing out the paint. After waffling back and forth one what to do I decided I will do a one-time semi-aggressive buff-out with wax only on the body and hood which are still mostly original Packard Blue. When I say semi-aggressive that means using a soft foam pad and liquid wax with my 600 rpm buffer. I tried this today on the drivers side doors and rear body side and it came out very nicely. I hand rubbed a few areas that the pad couldn't get to with wax but may have to use a little polish there, still working on that. Needless to say quite a bit of old lacquer comes off on the pad which is why this will be one time only. I forgot to take "before" pictures but posted a couple of pics from when I got the car for comparison.

Hi Don, Nice to see you back again. The old girl really has come up nice with the polishing that you've done and looks quite smart now. You're gonna need to do something with your radiator at some time although you may not want to. The car shouldn't run hot especially in the temperatures that you have. We normally don't have such extreme heat here in the U.K but tis year has been an exception with temps. up in the 90's and 100's. I have fought with my radiator for 3 years and actually thought, that, I had cured the overheating problem by getting it to run at about 100 and topping out at 120. Boy was I wrong. At home trundling around on short journeys everything was fine but this year we went to the Belgian European Rally and had to cover a long distant to get there across the channel from home. The radiator decided that it had had enough and gave us a few problems throughout the week of the rally and the return home. it kept on loosing water but we managed to complete all the runs that were planned for us. On the return home and reaching the U.K we decided to have the car taken home on a flat bed truck courtesy of our AA service. Next day my nephew and I pulled the rad and he took it off to a rad specialist who said they could recore it if necessary. They reported that the Rad was like a set of lace curtains and blocked in the overflow pipe. The end to this story is, that after being rebuilt the car temp. gauge hardly comes off the zero peg and the car motor sounds better and seems to run better. if you do decide to go down this route the rad is not difficult to remove and it will certainly give you peace of mind when going out on a run. I hope this saga doesn't put you off as they are great cars from American engineering at it's best. Please keep up with the updates all the best T

Terry, you are right about the cooling situation. One thing I may do before the rad is remove the water pump to check, I have been told this can create problems if the impeller has rusted away. Have you ever done that, is it difficult? If I have to rebuild the radiator I would prefer finding a replacement to fix and switch rather than having the car apart too long although I doubt there are many available out there. The running temps you mention are interesting, you talk of 100 to 120 as being overhot and zero as normal, are those celcius numbers? Other owners here talk about 160 to 180 being normal running temps, my car goes up to 190 - 195 but it has never boiled over. Although I have never taken it on a long trip in hot weather...

Don, Yes I have had my water pump out a few times and it is very easy to do. Just dis-connect the fan first and then undo the bolts around the pump itself (Don't forget to drain off the water first) The pump has an eccentric cam built into it's face in order to adjust the fan belt. My impeller had no problems with being rusted away. The temperatures quoted are as the gauge is marked good old Fahrenheit. The first year that I had the car the temperature used to reach into the 200 to 250 range and even higher on a hot day and would eventually boil over.

Those temps were definitely too high! It does seem that running temps near zero would be too low, are your radiator louvers connected to a working shutterstat? I'll pull the water pump at some point and replace the fan belts at the same time. Never a shortage of things to do...

Don, A friend of mine who has a rolls Royce of the same vintage has also had his rad recored and his also runs cool with hardly any movement on the temp. gauge. Yes my rad stat is working and the louvers are opening and closing. I'd rather have it this way than being on edge all the time with it losing water or boiling up

Don, A friend of mine who has a rolls Royce of the same vintage has also had his rad recored and his also runs cool with hardly any movement on the temp. gauge. Yes my rad stat is working and the louvers are opening and closing. I'd rather have it this way than being on edge all the time with it losing water or boiling up

I can't argue with you there!

Hi there,

May I ask what size and brand tyres are on your 34. they seem to fill up the guards nicely. I'm looking at tyres at the moment and getting as much info as possible. being a 34 are they 16" rims too ?

Ian

Hi there,

May I ask what size and brand tyres are on your 34. they seem to fill up the guards nicely. I'm looking at tyres at the moment and getting as much info as possible. being a 34 are they 16" rims too ?

Ian

Hello Ian, the tires on my car are Dayton "Super EMT" and the size is 700-17 which is standard for the 1100 model. However these tires are rather beefy truck tires of unknown age, most likely quite aged. I have read that truck tires were often used for replacement on prewar cars before reproduction tires were readily available as they are today. They appear to be in pretty good shape but I would never chance them for a long trip. I will probably replace them at some point, definitely with blackwalls, but not sure what I would buy at this point.

Its been a long time since I posted, I have been working on my other car and just driving the 34. Yesterday I winterized it - the word "winterize" has a whole different meaning here in Texas as we are lucky enough to be able to drive our cars year round without total hibernation. We have already had two "freezes" with temps in the 20s, the good part is they usually don't last more than a few days. Today's high temp is supposed to be 79 and by tomorrow night we will have a winter storm warning with possible ice! I drained the water / wetter mix and replaced it with a 50/50 antifreeze mix, flushed the rad with a garden hose but did not see any sign of rust or crud. I also drained the heavy summertime straight weight oil and replaced it with 20W50 for easier cold starting. The only issue now is that the oil pressure drops to 35 psi at 40 mph when the engine is hot, I'm going to try adjusting the relief valve a little to see if it will come up. I drove it three times in the last few days and put in some fresh gas and a little Marvel Mystery oil, I do love taking it out.

Hi Don,

Nice to see someone is having nice weather but to be fair here in the UK the weather is fine but cold and frosty. which I like anyway. Your oil pressure seems fine. Mine on start up usually hits the 60p.s.i. mark and drops off to around 30 to 35 at 40 M.P.H when warmed up and goes down to about 15 to 20 on tick over. I don't think you have anything to worry about there. Take careful note on how your radiator is performing. I had trouble with mine for about 3 years thinking I had solved the problem with many rad flushes but this year it finally gave up the ghost on our Belgium trip and I had to have it rebuilt at great expense but now she runs real cool , perhaps too cool but I can suffer that.

Keep us posted and by the way I enjoyed your blog on your other car and it looks real good.

Take care

Terry

Its been awhile since I posted. I have been regularly driving this car when the weather has allowed and I have not done much more work on it. I did retorque the cylinder head and clean the sparkplugs and while I had them out I did a compression test. Seven cylinders were between 70 and 90 psi but the #4 cylinder only registered 10psi, effectively dead. I feel a little stupid because it is now clear that the car has been running on seven as long as I have had it, it's a testament to how smooth the straight 8 is that the car still runs and drives very well. The tip-off should have been that the idle has a slight shake and the nickel would not balance on the head.

So I now have a small laundry list of repairs that are needed: fix the dead cylinder, cooling system cleanout, radiator repair/cleanout, vacuum brake assist rebuild and possibly a few other things. I would love to think I could knock all these out myself but realistically I need to find a local shop. I started a post in the General forum asking how to find a good one and I'm going to talk to local PAC members. But if anyone knows a trustworthy shop in the DFW area that has specific Packard experience let me know.

Don, I hope you don't mind that I post this answer in both places.

Tom Wilcox, near Austin, might be able to help you. Good friend, who owns an unrestored 1930 Packard, and a freshly restored 1934 coupe roadster, and a 1938 Packard. Does restoration and mechanical.

http://www.restorations120.com/

HI Don,

Nice to see you back on the site again and working on the 34.

Some of the work you can do yourself such as the rad removal. It is not as daunting as it looks and only requires a little help when you take of the hood. Parts for your vacuum assist are available from Classic and Exotic of Troy Michigan. May I suggest that you also take a look at your oil cooler as these can break down at any time due to the oil pressure going through it at start up and if it does fail, it leaves you with a load of sludge all the way through the system and you don't want that on a newly re-built radiator. They can be repaired by a radiator shop or replaced by a by-pass pipe which is easy to make up and the car doesn't need an oil cooler anyway. This is what I ended up doing after two failures of the radiator. I hope that the lack of compression is nothing too serious and can be fixed easily without having to tear the motor completely apart. Looks like West has given you a lead to a possible good guy on some of the repairs. From some of the shows we get on TV there seems to be lots of them around in Texas. Gas Monkey etc but never having been to Texas I don't know just how far places are away from you.

Any way good look on your latest challenges and keep us all updated on your progress and if I can help you in any way just shout.

All the best

Terry

Thanks Terry. You might want to look at the other post I started on this subject: http://forums.aaca.org/f169/how-do-i-pick-best-repair-367668.html

I may very well dive in and do some work myself since there does not appear to be such a thing as a regular mechanic for cars like this. It seems like most of the restoration shops have an all-or-nothing approach and apparently there are plenty of very wealthy people who keep them in business. I'm still looking and will keep you posted. By the way, there are plenty of hot rod chop shops like Gas Monkey Garage here but there is NO WAY I would ever let them touch a car of mine!

Have you checked to see if the low compression is the result of bad rings or a burnt valve?

'Nother Terry

At minimum I will pull the head off and hopefully identify the problem. As for the rest of it, still researching.

If you haven't done it already, do a wet compression check before taking the head off. My apologies if you know this, but I would squirt some oil in the offending cylinder, roll the engine over with the starter half a dozen times, then recheck the compression. If the compression goes up, the rings are bad,if it doesn't it is likely a bad valve. Hard to determine bad rings in particular if the head comes off first. If the spark plug is wet with oil that is another indication of bad rings.

Terry

If you haven't done it already, do a wet compression check before taking the head off. My apologies if you know this, but I would squirt some oil in the offending cylinder, roll the engine over with the starter half a dozen times, then recheck the compression. If the compression goes up, the rings are bad,if it doesn't it is likely a bad valve. Hard to determine bad rings in particular if the head comes off first. If the spark plug is wet with oil that is another indication of bad rings.

Terry

Thanks Terry, no apology required. I have already done what you suggest, I learned of my problem when I did a full compression test while I had all the plugs out for a cleaning. All cylinders gave a 75 to 90 psi reading except for number 4 which was 10 psi or less. I tried it again with oil but no change. The number 4 plug was gas fouled and sooty but not oily so I am hoping for an easily fixed valve or head gasket problem.

You never know. Years ago we had a '32 Packard engine that ran reasonably well. Upon disassembly we found it to have only 7 rods and pistons.

You won't get 10 psi from an empty cylinder.

It sounds most likely to be a bad valve but a bad head gasket is possible as well. At least removing the head is not too difficult of a job but it is heavy.

I'm confident you'll find the problem once the head is off.

A seven piston straight 8? I came across a seven piston V8 some years ago (49 Mercury). When we took the head off, we discovered a loaf of bread had been shoved down the cylinder! :confused:

Terry

Haven't posted in quite a while, I have been sidetracked with other projects and have not done much with my Packard except drive it. I'm taking it to a small local car show on Saturday so I finally got to work polishing the rest of the paint today. I pulled off both sidemounts and got the buffer going using just wax. It came out pretty good, I will need to do some hand polishing and waxing tomorrow to finish it up. I even got some shine out of the fenders, which are painted about five different colors ranging from the correct blue to almost black. The worst of the paint is on the sidemount covers, not sure I can do much there but I will try.

I got everything back together and finally had a chance to take some decent photos of this car after the buff-out. Its far from perfect but I am very happy with the results. Even though a small amount of paint was removed the appearance was substantially freshened and it is now protected by a good coat of wax. I've taken it out to a couple of small local cruise-ins and it never fails to draw attention. I'm still working up the courage to pull the head off and look at that dead cylinder but with the hot weather I'm not in a hurry...

That old gal is looking pretty good. Nice work Don!

Terry - she sure is a beauty. Thanks for keeping her polished!

Chuck in Kansas

That looks soooo good. A credit to you preserving such a beauty.