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1934 Packard Preservation


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I just acquired a 1934 Packard Eight Model 1100 4-door sedan through Matt Harwood, who is well known on this forum for his 1929 Cadillac. This was the entry level Packard in 1934 with a short 129" wheelbase and mine was factory ordered with the Deluxe trim level and a number of options including dual sidemounts with metal covers, trunk rack, "doughnut chaser" hood ornament, wire wheels with trim rings, radio, Startix, dual tire mounted rearview mirrors, lincense plate frames, and a "Handy Kit" which contained spare lamp bulbs and an assortment of cleaners. It is painted code "FF" which is all dark blue with ivory dual pinstriping.

This car has under 73,000 actual miles and appears to be mostly original, with exceptions being very old (and poor) repaint on the fenders and obvious things like tires, belts, etc. Both the Startix and Bijur systems have been disconnected but are still in place. I am the fifth owner since new and I have extensive documentation all the way back to the original purchaser. I have never owned a hobby car with this level of originality and verified history so it is a new and exciting experience for me. My intention is to preserve its original condition as much as possible but also to drive it and enjoy it. I'll share my experiences here and welcome any advice from others who have done similar preservation efforts. Here are a few photos taken when I received the car, there will be many more...

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Part of the documentation package I received with this car are items the first owner, Theodore Frey, got with his new car. They include the owners instruction book and service card with their envelope, an instruction card for the Startix system, a battery warranty card (with a ONE WEEK warranty), and the envelope from an owners survey. In addition there is what appears to be the factory build sheet dated 7-27-33 listing the car's equipment and color scheme. This is apparently a very early production car which was shipped to the Packard Motor Company of Pittsburgh, which I assume to be a zone office since the firewall serial number plate is blank in area where the dealer name was usually stamped. It was apparently used as a demonstrator and wound up at Liberty Motor Sales in the Pittsburgh area. It had 5,160 miles on it (!) when Mr. Frey purchased it on 11-27-33. Mr. Frey owned the car from then until November of 1987, putting less than 1300 miles a year on the car.

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Fabulouscar.

If your inclined to re-connect the Startix, I suggest you follow the instructions on that great tag you have. One of the common forum followers services and restores the Startix, if required. When searching for spares, which are common, please note that there are 6V and 12V versions, so watch for the correct one. While there is much written about the dis-advantages of the Startix, there are also quite a few cars that are extensively driven that have retained the Startix.

I'm very curious as to what tires you find hiding under those sidemount covers.

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Fabulouscar.

I'm very curious as to what tires you find hiding under those sidemount covers.

Thanks Mike - looking at the back side of one spare, they are Goodyear truck tires MUCH older than the Daytons on the ground. They hold air but probably not much more!

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Guest wtppackard

A wonderful Packard! When Matt first listed it I considered it myself (briefly), and I agree with your approach. Do what needs to be done to make it reliable and leave everything else alone. You seldom see a full classic of this vintage that remains essentially untouched. Congratulanions, and please, no whitewalls!

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Guest BillP

A note on that Startix: Several years ago, I went to a local show. When I got home and went to put it back in the garage, it wouldn't start; no click, no slow grumble, nuthin'. To my mind, the only magic in the system was the Startix, so I disconnected it and hooked up the system as if there was no Startix, i.e., original factory.

Still nothing, so eventually I put in a different battery and it started immediately. I never re-connected the Startix, but of course, I should have. It is a really interesting feature and fun to show off to others.

Don, there should be a small cardboard box with all the original cables, etc., to hook it up. I think also you should have a sheet I downloaded from somewhere showing all about the unit.

Lesson learned: modern batteries don't slowly expire, they just go off the cliff. Not knowing that, I went somewhere else in search of the problem.

PS I bought the car in 1999.

Edited by BillP
more info (see edit history)
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A note on that Startix: Several years ago, I went to a local show. When I got home and went to put it back in the garage, it wouldn't start; no click, no slow grumble, nuthin'. To my mind, the only magic in the system was the Startix, so I disconnected it and hooked up the system as if there was no Startix, i.e., original factory.

Still nothing, so eventually I put in a different battery and it started immediately. I never re-connected the Startix, but of course, I should have. It is a really interesting feature and fun to show off to others.

Don, there should be a small cardboard box with all the original cables, etc., to hook it up. I think also you should have a sheet I downloaded from somewhere showing all about the unit.

Lesson learned: modern batteries don't slowly expire, they just go off the cliff. Not knowing that, I went somewhere else in search of the problem.

PS I bought the car in 1999.

Thanks Bill, I will hook it back up at some point and see if it works. I'm still going through the parts and paperwork, I am so glad you saved everything and passed it on with the car.

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I've been sidetracked by some computer problems but I have a question for the experts. Most of this car has well worn original paint which I assume to be nitrocellulose lacquer. I used some midgrade liquid polish and liquid wax on one side of the hood and cowl as a test, no buffer, just by hand. It worked well and it looks substantially better but it took off what seemed like a lot of color. I know that's how it was with the old lacquer but can anyone recommend the best materials to use for a good shine with minimal paint loss?

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I wonder what would happen if you deep cleaned it first and then gave it a shot of clear? Also, it probably hasn't been polished in a long time and you are just removing the oxidation. After a few,you should be down to hard paint again.

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Pat, for now at least I want to be serious about the preservation idea and not add any new paint or coating. You are right about oxidation, here are a few photos showing the paint condition better. The paint has been rubbed through and primer is showing in some areas. A friend of mine with an original 26 Pierce Arrow doesn't even think I should polish it, but I do like a bit of shine. I was hoping others had gone through this same issue and had some magic cure, ha ha ha...

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Hi Don.

Lovely original car, just how I like them.

The paint issue is tricky isn't it? I have a 47 Chrysler and 53 Buick with original paint and face the same issue. It's worse on the Buick because the paint on the roof is the original metallic and lots of colour comes off with polishing.

I polish them for two reasons, one because I also like a bit of shine and, two because it seals the surface and protects the paint. I don't polish often and I try to keep them out of the sun. On no account leave water dry on the surface as the paint being very porous, will mark. For polish I use Meguiars Tech Wax (but any premium polish from Mothers etc., will do) because it is not abrasive. I do small areas at a time and I don't let the polish dry properly before I take it off. Have plenty of clean micro fibre cloths ready as they clog quickly. its very hard to eliminate swirls hence the small areas at a time. I don't get too agressive and attempt to achieve a glass like finish (tempting) because you lose too much paint. I give them a light polish each year or so. It'll probably dull off in the sun anyway, but at least you will have partially addressed the paint porosity and slowed the deterioration.

I think it's worth carefully doing this, however others may disagree.

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Before I even had possession of this car I was put in touch with Dave Czirr, well known to all Packard guys on this and other forums as Owen_Dyneto. He owns a 34 1100 that is a nicer looking twin of my car only he has owned his for 50 years and put 45,000 miles on it. Dave had seen engine photos of my car and pointed out that the oil filter installation was a potential problem. 1934 was the first year Packard used a full flow oil filter rather than a bypass filter. Somewhere along the line the factory filter had been deleted and a remote Purolator bypass filter was plumbed in using a bunch of pipe adapters and tubing less than half the size of that used for the full flow filter. Dave said that restriction risked starving the bearings for oil so I wanted to fix it right away. He gave me the name of Burr Ripley who makes reproduction factory filters with modern spin-on filter guts, and I ordered one before I even had the car. Here is the setup that was on the car, I pulled it all out including the two factory lines from the oil pressure regulator.

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Burr Ripley's repro filter is a work of art. On the outside it looks just like the factory sealed canister including the embossed lettering but it is actually two pieces of machined aluminum with a large modern filter inside. That filter is modified with a pipe nipple to attach a connector with a check valve inside to stop oil drainback. I put the new unit on today, it just screws on the bottom of the oil cooler. Lucky for me whoever put that other filter on didn't throw away the 90 degree adapter at the bottom as I needed that to attach to the large tubes from the regulator. While I had the area clear I cleaned up the block and splash pan a bit, there is still green paint on the cylinders!

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After I installed the oil filter I started the car up, it had been sitting for more than a week but it caught right away. I forgot to set the choke properly so it ran rough at first but smoothed out quickly. I drove it a few miles and put six gallons of premium in. It has a Packard brand locking gas cap, luckily I remembered to bring the key - I also see that the gas gauge works! On this short drive I noticed it runs kind of hot but did not overheat, I had been warned about that. The transmission grumbled a bit going into second but I may be shifting too fast, I have to get used to stick shift again. The clutch feels good, steering is heavy but not nearly as bad as my 32 Cadillac was, and the car tracks straight. The nylon tires bounced for the first mile but smoothed out OK. I got home without a problem (could never say that about my other prewar cars!) and parked it heading into the garage. This car has a short 129" wheelbase and fits very well in my garage. Today I'm going to jack it up and do a more detailed check underneath, also change the trans and rear axle fluid to straight 140 weight GL-4.

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I worked yesterday and today taking a closer look at everything and getting used to this car. I changed the transmission gear oil although what I drained out didn't look too bad. The rear axle fluid had been recently changed and was full so I left it alone. The steering box was empty (!), filled it with 140 weight gear lube, we'll see if it leaks. The steering linkage and U-joints were just greased, I cleaned and oiled the brake linkage and clevis connections. I read through the whole owners manual again sitting by the car, the car has adjustable shock absorbers and I found that the ride control was on the stiffest setting, I changed that to the softest. The stoplights did not work, I checked the switch and wiring and they looked all right. Then I removed the lenses and found that an incorrect set of dual filament bulbs had been installed and were burned out. I found a couple of 6V single filament bulbs and that was fixed. After working under the car and leaving it sit in the garage I am happy with the relative lack of leaks, just a few drops of engine oil and rear axle fluid. My last two prewar cars literally left puddles, the Cadillac transmission was so bad I had to leave a drain pan under it and it needed to be topped off every month! Also, for a car that spent its entire life in Pennslyvania and Ohio, the undercarriage is quite clean and surprisingly rust-free. It does have some surface rust on the bottoms of the fenders and running boards but not at all bad.

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The one non-original accessory on this car is a rather funky looking set of clamp-on chrome bumper guards added to the front and rear bumpers. All of the fenders on the car have old repainting on them so I assume the original owner dinged them and must have thought the guards would help with that. When I was replacing the taillight bulbs I noticed that the rear guards actually blocked a good part of the taillights from the view another car would have - not good. So yesterday I pulled the rear guards off, very simple unbolting although the nuts were a strange size, neither SAE or Metric. I wound up using a 20mm metric wrench which was close but still slightly oversize. Once they were off I polished up the chrome, the areas under the guards looked a lot better than the rest, but all in all it looks pretty good. I also added my very attractive "Slow Moving Vehicle" orange triangle sign originally used on my Pierce Arrow. Since the top speed on this car seems to be about 45 mph I figured that might be a good addition.

After that I took the car out for another drive. This time it had only been sitting a couple of days, I set the choke with a half push on the gas pedal, hit the starter button and it started instantly - I love it! I drove a few more miles than last time, the transmission shifted better and the car rode very well on the softer shock setting. It was about 75 degrees out, the temp rose to 190 - 200 degrees and stayed there, seemed to run fine. As a test, when I put it back in the garage I let the engine idle for about 20 minutes with the hood closed but the hood vents open. The temp gauge stayed at about 195 and the engine continued to idle smoothly. When I shut it off the temp gauge pegged the hot end but it did not lose any coolant - so far so good!

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Tex, this is an amazing car......and I'm envious!

Not being very involved with '20s & '30s cars, I find the configuration of the rear axle quite interesting. I suppose that was for increased ground clearance?

Is the 45 mph top speed typical for the '34 Packards? Would have thought it would be significantly higher.

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I would have thought same. Is it really revving high by the time it's going 45? I recall some advertizing of the time claim a top speed of 85 mph. I'm sure babbit bearings combined with a long stroke wouldn't last that long if pushed hard.

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Guest BillP

If I may, I'll make a comment about the speed. There were several rear axle ratios available on the car at time of order. This one came through with a 4.69, which one might consider pretty steep until a couple things are recognized. The car was originally sold into Pittsburgh, quite a hilly town. It was a mark of a good car back then to be able to pull any hill in high gear, and to do that in Pittsburgh, one had to probably stack the deck a little. More seriously, a city car, especially one in such terrain, would not need to go 85. I imagine that as equipped, this Packard would probably be out of breath at 60 or 65. Not because of the red herrings of long stroke or babbitt bearings, but because of engine speed, engine breathing and gearing.

Also, as has been mentioned elsewhere, predominant road conditions encouraged speeds that today would impede traffic. Except for race cars and some very high-end automobiles, standard road cars were engineered to drive on 45 or 50 mph roads. Take a stock early 30s car down a two-lane dirt or macadam road and you'll not only be emulating our grandfathers, you'll also see exactly what I mean.

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The 4.69 gears are the equivalent of drag race or truck equipment and it is buzzing pretty good by 45 mph. The car also came with an optional high compression head, a little more power for the Pittsburgh hills. It does move out smartly but that shift to second comes quick...

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  • 3 weeks later...
Guest traumjaeger

Hello texriv, I also have an 1100 series 1103 sedan that I imported from the States back in 2008. I also went through a learning curve jus as you are doing now. I had to deal with some issues, which were mainly solved bt Dave Czirr (Bless him) He is an absolute wealth of knowledge on these cars. In your first post you mentioned that the strtix and Bijur system had been dis-connected. The Startix won't cause any problems but you urgently need to sort out the Bijur oiling system before damage is done to all your spring shackles and you end up with nasties happening like bump steer, not to mention a large bill for parts to replace. Info about the Bijur system may be obtained from this excellent site www.packardinfo.com. I also had an overheating problem which took an age to solve and ended up as very simple thing to do with the heater connection. You are still running somewhat hot, you should be around the 120 to 140 mark tops 160degrees. I gave mine several flushings in both flow directions and finally cured the overheating after twice blowing the gauge bulb. These are lovely cars to drive once they have been fettled. I am going to post some pics of my car on the site when I find out how to it.. In the mean time good luck and ask any questions that you feel the need to. Terry

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Thanks Terry, I would love to see the pictures of your car. I do know I have to get the Bijur system running, I have started a list of Things to Do and that is near the top. I checked all the joints when I was under the car and hand oiled everything I could reach but I am sure that is not as effective as as the oiling system. My cooling system is at the top of the list right now as you will see from my next post, my car does not have a heater to complicate things but I do need to work on it before the Texas summer really hits!

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Since my last driving post I have taken the car out six more times, a bit farther each time up to maybe a 10 mile trip, in differing temperatures. I drive mostly 40 to 45 mph, I had it to 50 and would not want to go much higher, 45 feels good. It starts reliably but runs very rich at first, I assume from the choke being closed. It does seem to run a little better each time I take it out although that may just be me getting more used to driving it. The transmission is a little grumbly when it warms up and wants to grind a bit on shifts so I have learned to shift more slowly and gently which seems to help. I have to remember the synchros are probably worn and not as foolproof as a modern design. I am amazed at the brakes on this car, with the assist set at "1" they stop the car very effectively, I will try the number 2 setting but not sure I will need it!

I have discovered one immediate problem which I will have to deal with. In checking the radiator I have had to top off the tank a couple of times, not a lot added but the last time I filled it pretty close to the top. I took the car out for about a five mile trip yesterday and pulled it into the center of the garage to continue my inspection / education. When I came back out later to get started I saw a pretty good leak under the motor. At first I assumed I had overfilled the top tank and the fluid had come from the overflow tube. This turned out to be partially true and I added a hose to the bottom of the tube to direct all overflow out through the hole in the splash pan. But as I looked further I saw fluid around the Pines thermostat housing in the upper radiator tank. This had also run down the upper radiator hose and collected on the block in front of the cylinder head. The area around the thermostat is a mess with evidence of old leaks and old patching so this is definitely why I have had to top off the radiator.

I am trying to find a source for a flushing gun to reverse flush the block and radiator, I would like to do this before attempting any repairs to the tank, but I think I will gently wirebrush those scaly areas and try to get a better picture of what I am dealing with. If anyone else has gone through this I would appreciate your comments.

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Don, glad to see you getting more acclimated to the car - a beauty for sure - like the others it almost made me pick up the phone when Matt listed it a while back.

I see you mentioned adding premium gas on one of your first treks with the car. One thing I found out when sorting my Packard 120 - I was putting in premium gas as well, thinking that was a good thing. Subsequently I found that the anti-knock compound in the premium actually inhibits ignition and that gas is designed for high compression modern (60s on up anyway) engines. Some theories contend that the premium may actually be troublesome with the ethanol mix in today's gas in high heat conditions on prewar cars. Others may be able to better explain but that is my understanding anyway - I suggest you may be better off with lower octane in your Packard, especially when the Texas heat does come around! Their is a detailed thread on this on either Packard Info or this forum if you are interested in reading more about that.

Your polishing approach seems to be working nicely. I once cleaned up a car with old lacquer using cleaner wax and nothing else. A pro restorer had passed on the car in part because he felt the paint had lost its shine and he did not want to paint the car on top of the mechanical work - he was astonished at the clean up, but it is always a balance. That particular car had thick enough paint that I wonder how it would have looked with a color sand, but I do not think you have that option on yours.

Have fun with it and keep the thread up to date - fun to follow!

Edited by Steve_Mack_CT (see edit history)
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Thanks Steve. Funny you should mention the premium gas issue. I put premium in because the dealer I bought it from had, without really thinking about it since I HAVE to use premium in my Starfire. I will be switching to regular with the next fill. I have also started adding Marvel Mystery Oil since the PO had problems with sticking valves. The funny part is when you mentioned a "detailed thread" on the topic I remembered I was the one who started it back in 2009! I had two other prewar car then and had been told by a few people that premium was better regarding the ethanol issue. The thread got a lot of action and the upshot was there was no advantage to premium. Unfortunately the thread got hijacked and became a political hack job for some of the extremists on this site. If you would like to check it out here is the link: http://forums.aaca.org/f120/premium-gas-prewar-cars-273671.html

I've actually only polished one section, half of the hood and cowl. I want to see how it lasts and I may add a second coat of wax. If it fades back quickly I won't waste time on the rest!

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Yep that is the thread, well worth wading through the noise to get to what can help your car run a bit better. FWIW I ran a small amount of clean kerosene or MMO with each fill the last season I had my Packard and while I am no chemist I think it helps a bit - I certainly had no ill effects from it. The fellow sorting his Bentley in the technical forum just below has put up an interesting thread. While the issues are not new, his incremental approach is interesting and I suspect he is right in that I always thought just a few degrees made a difference.

Enjoy that incredible Packard!

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Tex,

I strongly recommend you deal with both the cooling problems and the Bijur problems as soon as possible. Your motor has babbitt bearings, which will fail much more quickly if the operating temperature is too high (as yours is). The clutch throw out bearing and spring shackles will also fail quickly if the Bijur system is not working.

Both situations involve very costly repairs. Unfortunately for me, I base this on experience. Since those days I have learned how important Bijur and low operating temps (less than 180) are to Packards like ours.

You have a great car, with a great known history. I wish you the best in your enjoyment of your rolling mechanical and visual art piece.

Cheers,

Tom

Edited by 34PackardRoadsta (see edit history)
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Thanks Tom. The Bijur is my second priority after the cooling system but in reality it all just dumps on you with any old car! Is there any temporary work-around to get some oil to the affected joints on a manual basis? I also have not been able to find a wiring diagram that shows how the Bijur should be hooked up, it appears that the feed wire has been disconnected but the rest is intact, I'm not sure where the feed wire is supposed to come from, see pic.

On another topic entirely, I was very happy that my car included the original "Deluxe" Goddess radiator mascot and the crankhole cover with enamel emblem, I know these items like to "disappear". Since I am driving the car locally and parking it I wanted to remove temptation from public view. I looked through one of many boxes of junk in my garage and found an old Stant diecast plain radiator cap that was close in size to the original. The flange was broken and the wrong shape so I ordered a repair kit from Max Merritt and switched it out, it turned out to fit almost like it belongs there. I'll save the mascot and cover for show duty only.

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Guest traumjaeger

Hi Don, if you can tell me how I post pictures on here I will gladly send some of the Bijur connections for you plus the car. I have windows 8 and I am only just getting used to it. I am also not a computer geek.Terry

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Thanks Terry. I can't help with Windows 8 (!) but posting photos is easy. Your pictures should be sized about 1000 to 1300 pixels wide if possible so they will load faster. When you do your reply click on the "Go Advanced" button at the bottom rather than the Quick Reply. This opens up a larger work area. Type in your message at the top then scroll down to Additional Options - Manage Attachments and click on the button. It opens the File Upload Manager. Click the "Add Files" button and select the photos from your computer. When they are selected click on "Upload" and the pictures should appear at the bottom of the Upload Manager page. When they are there click on "Done", The Upload window will close, then click "Submit Reply" and they should show up. Good Luck!

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Guest traumjaeger

hi Don, Thanks for the info, I'll try and have a go at that when I find some decent pictures. You asked if there was an easy way to oil the bushes without the Bijur. As far as I know the short answer is no. It can be done but is a real PITA. You have to disconnect all the little unions that go into the spring bush housings. Some are accessible but some are really difficult, such as the 2 front ones and you have to remove all the tin work over the front of the spring covers to get at them. You didn't say exactly where your Bijur unit has been dis-connected from, but looking at the photos I would assume that it is from the main chassis line. The connection from the diaphragm on top of the oil container seems OK and goes to the main vacuum line behind what I think is part of your Startix unit (I haven't got that) The connection at the left of the mentioned diaphragm on the container goes down into the main chassis lines. The first chassis connection lies on the chassis rail just behind and to the left of the steering box as you look at it from the front of the car. Just there and slightly above is a bonnet (hood) lock catch and to the right of that on panel next to the fender is a round coach bolt type fastener. Under that should be the connector that may have been dis-connected. Good luck Terry

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hi Don, You asked if there was an easy way to oil the bushes without the Bijur. As far as I know the short answer is no. It can be done but is a real PITA. You have to disconnect all the little unions that go into the spring bush housings. Some are accessible but some are really difficult, such as the 2 front ones and you have to remove all the tin work over the front of the spring covers to get at them. You didn't say exactly where your Bijur unit has been dis-connected from, but looking at the photos I would assume that it is from the main chassis line. The connection from the diaphragm on top of the oil container seems OK and goes to the main vacuum line behind what I think is part of your Startix unit (I haven't got that) The connection at the left of the mentioned diaphragm on the container goes down into the main chassis lines. The first chassis connection lies on the chassis rail just behind and to the left of the steering box as you look at it from the front of the car. Just there and slightly above is a bonnet (hood) lock catch and to the right of that on panel next to the fender is a round coach bolt type fastener. Under that should be the connector that may have been dis-connected. Good luck Terry

Terry, first let me say your car is beautiful, I love the two tone paint. Regarding the Bijur, thanks for the information above, I also downloaded some Service Instructions from the PackardInfo site. After looking at this I may be confused (There's an understatement) about how the system operates. I looked at the firewall unit and saw all the vacuum and oil lines connected but saw an electrical terminal on what I assumed to be a solenoid that had no wire connected to it - see my picture below - so I figured that was the problem. I did not look under the car for the oil line connections you describe but I will do now. Is the electrical unit I am referring to part of the Bijur system? If not, and the Bijur is completely vacuum actuated that will simplify my troubleshooting. It would help if you could supply a picture of your firewall to compare to mine - I also think I have an add-on fuse box in the same area that confuses things.

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Guest traumjaeger

Hi Don, Thanks for the compliment. The photos do not give the actual true colour on the top and fenders. It is actually a light grey not a greenish blue. The Bijur system is all vacuum operated nothing at all electrical. The info that you got does at first seem confusing but with a bit of studying comes a bit clearer. I will try to get you some photos of my firewall in the next few days. You do seem to have a mish mash of things going on in that area. T

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