Another '52 Special Deluxe Project starting...

Hi, My name is John Russell and I just took possession of my 41D yesterday. It's in decent, but not driveable conndition. Has been sitting in a junk yard for over 40 years. Body is straight and undamaged, however, the majority of the skin has a layer of rust. Both front floor pans need replacing. 3 of the four shocks are leaking. The winshield has numerous holes. I cannot open the passenger front door. (need some help, hints on this). The engine compartment and engine are complete (except for the oil filler cap and the battery (where does the battery go? I see no obvious battery box/shelf).

I will be doing a frame off restoration, begun yesterday with cleaning the interior (lots of little residents over the years). It's up on blocks now and tomorrow I start disassembly.

Here are a few pics...

Looks like a solid starter car.

The battery sets in/on a plate on the frame just behind the front shock on the passenger side. The ground strap can be seen in the engine compartment photo of the passenger side.

Ben

Ben,

I did see the strap, but wasn't sure about the battery location because it just doesn't appear to be wide enough.

But with the short length of the strap, there really isn't any place else it could go.

Thanks for the info. It is appreciated.

John

Good for you, now you can talk to Robert, he can share TONS OF INFO.

Have fun,

Dale in Indy

Hi John and welcome to the forum. You've come to the right place. I, too, have a thread here about my '52 Special Deluxe. This forum has been absolutely invaluable to my restoration/preservation efforts and I'm sure you will enjoy your time here. You have a nice start for a project there! It's even the same color combo as mine. Venetian Blue Metallic(or "Poly" as they called it back then)with a Sky Gray top. Looks like you have a Synchromesh trans. That will save you the headache of dealing with a Dynaflow(which is what mine has). First and foremost, I recommend you get your hands on a 1952 shop manual. You can download one for free online. I'll include a link at the bottom. You can download the entire manual there.

She looks really good for sitting outside for that long. I don't see any rust through on the body. Very nice. You are incredibly lucky that your upper grill bar/mustache bar has survived inctact! Be EXTREMELY careful with that as it is very brittle and prone to cracking. It is also the hardest and most expensive piece of chrome to replace on the entire car! Took me an entire year and quite a bit of money to find one for mine. Oil filler caps can be bought at a number of Buick parts dealers. I'll also include a large list of parts companies that I've compiled from my time here on the forum.

As for the battery, there should be a long, thin metal tray bolted to the frame rail right below the distributor/coil area. It is made for holding the old 6 volt batteries. I'll include a picture of what that looks like. Not my car but a reference picture I pulled from the net. My car was converted to 12 volt by the previous owner so I just set the 12 volt on the tray and bought an aftermarket plastic tray and battery strap and attached them to the 6 volt tray.

On the door not opening, what exactly seems to be the problem? Is the button on the outside handle pressing in? Is the inside handle moveable? Is the lock button moveable? Either way, if something is stuck you're probably going to have to remove the door handles and the door panel to see what's going on. Let me know if you need more help on that as I just took my driver door apart recently. A shop manual is a BIG help on something like that too. Anyway, I look forward to following your thread. It's always good to see a fellow '52 owner join the fold here. I also highly recommend joining the Buick Club Of America. Lots of perks to that not the least of which is our monthly magazine the "Buick Bugle". Loaded with great stories, vendor ads, buy/sell ads, tech. articles, etc.

1952 Buick Service Manual, All Series

Buick Club of America - BCA - Welcome

NOS, New, and Used Buick Parts:

Bob's Automobilia

3352 South El Pomar

Templeton, CA 93465

805-434-2963

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Classic Buick parts, high quality and exceptional value! Classic Buick parts, high quality and exceptional value!

The Buick Farm

PO Box 384

Clayton, DE 19938

NOS Buick Parts & Original Literature, 1935-2012 or Present

CARs, Inc.

205 Pearl St

Neshanic Station, NJ 08853

908-369-3666

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AutoTran

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David Edwards

56 Dale Street, Dept. A

Needham Heights, MA 02494-1218

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Fatsco Tranmission Parts

337 ChangeBridge Road

PO Box 635

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For Sales Dial #2

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815-399-1075

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Classic 2 Current Fabrication, LLC

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Redford, MI 48239

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Kanter Auto Products

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TA Performance Products

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Used Buick Parts:

Ken Schmidt

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4700 8TH Ave

Sacramento, CA 95820-1511

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Moore's Auto Salvage

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Rapid City, SD 57701

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Best of luck w/her! Her's a battery box on e-bay (not mine), unsure if it will fit your special though http://www.ebay.com/itm/Buick-Battery-Tray-for-Long-6-Volt-Group-2E-Super-Roadmaster-1950-1951-1952-1953-/140925882302?pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item20cfd64fbe&vxp=mtr

OK. I thought I had posted a reply to Robert, but it's not there. Damn, it was a good one to ;-)

OK - let's see if I can remember what I wsa saying...

Robert,

Thanks much forthe timely tip on the grill. I am planning on taking it off today (along with the rest of the front end). I will be careful. Very. On the door. The outside handle does pusdh in; the inside handle does lift. The latch, however, doesn't move. Looks like I'm going to have to disassemble the door from the inside. with it closed and no way to remove the seat 1st. A challenge! goody! (yeah, right) Anyway - as for rust. Yes, the body is in really good condition over all. there are a couple of very small rustr throughs that are easily fixed. My worst though are the fron floor pans. Both beyond repair and will need to be replaced. I don't know about under the sill plates yet. I haven't gotten that far, but I suspect there will be some damage there also. I've been under the frame and it looks solid, so far. I do have a manual (1st thing I ordered when I found the car). Many thanks for the list of vendors. I have some of them in my favorites, but this list saves me tons of time on Google. Please, keep the tips coming. Anything that will save me time and gotcha's is more than welcome.

This is a nostalgic restoration for me. My aunt (who raised me) was the Sec/Treas. for Wesson Buick in LA for over 40 years, so the whole time I lived with her, we had Buicks in the driveway. Including one similar to this.

Anyway - thanks for tips. They are greatly appreciated. I'll update this evening with a progress report on how far I got today.

John

OK - Got the front end off (not the fenders. Haven't figured out how to do that yet. I'm going to assume at this point that I need to separate the inner and outer fenders to get to a bolt or 2 that I missed folding the fender to the body. I'll be ready to remove the engine/trans as soon as I disconnect the exhaust and the trans mounts. I found the oil filler cap. It was caught under the gtenerator.

Looks like I REALLY need to pay attention to the cooling system. Just a mass of rust, so far. MAN, there's a lot of bolts holding the chrome on this beast. Took me all morning just to get the chrome off. Finally found the battery shelf, once I got the all the critter stuff out of the way.

Anyway, here;s a few pics.

John, no problem. Glad I can be of service. That's too bad about your first response getting lost. That's happened to me several times here so now I type up my responses in Word and copy them over to the forum. I've gotten burned too many times on that!

Yep, it looks like that door panel will have to come off if that lock button won't move up and down either. It will be somewhat challenging to remove it with the seat in. Not impossible but sure to be a pain in the rear. Once you get the handles off you can plainly see most of the mechanism through access holes. Maybe you'll get lucky and it just needs some lube to get it unstuck. Speaking of the handles, hope you have one of those door handle clip removal tools. Makes life a heckuva lot easier. If not, you can buy one at O'Reilly auto parts for $9.99. They refer to it as "molding pliers". I'll include a link to their site so you can see what it looks like and get a part number if you need it.

Those fenders should come off with the inner fender still attached. Let's see here if I can remember the bolt locations....one long bolt up front with square rubber pads on it holding the fender AND inner fender to the frame, two bolts inside the wheel well behind the tire holding the inner fender to the frame, one on the bottom edge near the back holding the chrome rocker panel trim to the fender, one at the very back on the bottom edge, one up inside the fender that uses a square bracket that is attached to the fender itself, one on the top near the windshield that attaches to the cowl, then the two tricky ones that are located inside the car. You must remove the kick panel to access them(crumbling it to dust in the process I'm sure). There is one on top and one on bottom and they have large washers on them with rubbery sealant that is hard to break loose. I think that's all of them. The fender will come off with the inner fender fully attached to it.

That picture of the cooling tube is amazing! I've never seen so much rust and crud! Maybe you had critters living inside the engine too. I think mine had a squirrel calling it home for a time. I've found preserved nuts all through my engine. Walnuts in the gas tank, acorns in the oil pan, and leaves in the cooling system. By the way, you said you are pulling the engine and trans. Are you planning to rebuild those? With the looks of that cooling tube I'd say that engine could probably use it. Stuff like that, my friend, is why you should never attempt to start up a sleeping engine without doing a little investigation first. I cringe when I watch those Youtube videos people make where they fire up a hibernating engine before doing anything to it. Yes, it is amazing that these old powerplants will still run, but who knows what kind of damage you are causing by not at least cleaning everything out first? I shudder to think.

Anyway John, I sincerely look forward to following your progress here. If you ever need anything, please don't hesitate to contact me. I even have a few spare parts lying around that might come in handy. As Dale said a few posts above, have fun with it!!

Lisle 35200 - Molding Pliers | O'Reilly Auto Parts

Way to go, John. I see your engine has one of our previous talking points. Or two. The manifold has a stud/nut at the #1 hole. Not all did. Also looks like a Carter carb with a Carter glass filter. Robert says parts book does not show that. My '50 Super, with same engine, has the same. Good luck.

Ben

Ben,

Very interesting. Do you know the titles of the talking point threads? I'd like to take a look.

Robert,

Thanks for the fender tip. It'sthe 2 bolts behind the kick panel I couldn't find. I should be able to get them off now... ;-)

Thanks much, guys.

John

An interesting project for sure. What with a 40 year sleep in the yard, I imagine everything will have to be replaced. I also noticed you removed the wires from the junction boxes on the radiator support. If you are at all planning to re use any of the wires, and even if you are not, I might suggest that you label every one of them before undoing any others. My recollection is that all your wires are the same color so you could be in a difficult position putting the car back together if you do not know which wire goes to which part.

Good luck. It will be fun to watch your advances...

John,

Thanks for the warning about the wiring. I AM planning on replacing the entire wiring harness, using the old harness for lengths. I do have a wiring diagram to reference sizes and colors. I've done this on my '51 Frazer and it works well and is less expensive than buying a complete pre-made harness. Time consuming, yes, but satisfying also.

John

John, I too rewired my car. does not look correct, since I used electrical tape afterwards instead of the braided stuff for a "loom". But who is looking, except me?

I don't know the thread #s, but the main ones were on shadetrees threads.

Ben

Note: post #8 picture #6. The manifold has the bolt/nut intact. There was a thread or two concerning the head bolt.

WOW! Quite a discussion on that poor 1st stud! I'll take and post pics as I disaaemble. I don't think this '52 engine has ever been disassembled. Got to head out to dinner, but I'll look up the fuel bowl posts when I get back...

John

OK - the fenders are off. The stuck door is open. (needed to take panel off and manually trigger latch, dirt had jambed it so it wouldn't release). The seats are out and all the crap (literally and figuratively) is out. Now I can determine how much metal to replace. (both front pans, sills, and under sills? at least) < oh! Goody!!>

Here are some pics of the engine, before I take it out with some close-ups of the manifold. I also included a shot of the Engine ID.

Now - How do I disconnect the driveshaft to pull the engine and tranny without having to remove the rear end 1st? I will be removing the rear end, but after I remove the body. Any suggestions? (It's a syncro-mesh)

John

John, the torque tube can be unbolted at back of tranny. undo engine mounts and tranny mount and pull engine. The u joint is attached to output shaft on tranny, and slides over drive shaft, so will pull apart. Also easy to unbolt tranny from engine, pull same, removing tranny later. After doing it once, will not be so scarey.

Ben

Ben,

Thanks much. Just didn't want to damage something. The engine is ready to pull. I still need to disconnect the tranny and un-bolt the torque tube.

I'll also drain both prior to the pull (duh! - haven't done that yet!). Doubt if I get to it tomorrow. (A shopping, movie day with my better half). I think it will be good to skip a day.

This car sat outside for about 40 years and was the home of MANY generations of mice and other critters. (I've vacuumed out 3 contractor bage of yuck). Add to that, the dust, the deterioration of the upholstery, and the large amout of rust dust. Plus, my shop (30X50) normally has the doors open, but the last few days cold rain and wind and I've kept the bays closed. As a result, I seem to be getting a bit fuzzy? dizzy? something. I have been wearing a mask (most ofthe time, but... ). So, tonight I'm leaving the main bay door open (we're very rural) to air things out. Most ofthe offensive stuff is now bagged. I hope this fixes it. I don't like the feeling.

Anyway, got to stop going on. Thanks again for the info.

Later...

John

John,

I just thought that was the feeling all of us get as we start into our restoration projects..................My head is just starting to clear up and it's getting closer to paint time and the fumes ought to fog it right back up again. Matt

Matt,

Hey! That must be it! I DID drive my wife nuts obsessing about getting the car. The yard I bought it from had to move a bunch of other vehicles to get to mine and then the weather caused a further delay. so I drove her nuts waiting for the call to come get it.

John

OK -

No pics today, but the engine is out (a real pain!); the body is off and on the rotisserie; and the frame is ready to strip and redo.

I have removed the trans. (manual) and spent an hour or so finding the bolts for the bell housing in the concrete from 60 years of accumulation of oil, dirt, etc. Anyway, question... Do I have to remove the clutch and flywheel to get at the top bolts to remove the flywheel? That appears to be the only way to remove it, unless I'm missing something.

In the body, I'm going to need to replace both toe panels; both front floor pans; both front seat to door frame panels and the left rear floor panel. Oh well, I'll get lots of welding practice. On the frame - all front suspension parts; re-build all 4 hydraulic shocks. I don't know about replacing the springs. On removal of the body bolts - on both sides, bolts 2,3, and 5 broke. Not an issue on 2 and 5, but no. 3 is going to require drilling out and probably re-threading in the frame. Such fun!!! Also a complete brake replacement, of course and a re-build of the steering and the trans linkage. THink I'm going to be busy for a while... Pics next time...

OK - I put some pics on the general forum asking about brake drums. Here are the pics...

Now - does anyone know how to remove the driveshaft, once the tube is removed?

I want to change the seal. I see there is a pin, but, it won't budge when whacked with a hammer and drift.

The frame is about half cleaned and ready for paint. In the process of cleaning and rebuilding the rear end also.

The body will need to wait until I get a completed, rolling frame. Replacing brakes and suspension (need to figure out how to re-work the shocks.) Will re-build the steering also. Had to order 2 new rear drums. The front drums have been turned, but I haven't measured to see if they are still within tolerance. If not, I have an offer from a member to sell me good used front drums. I have one brake line that needs to be replaced (broke on removal). 2 of the shocks were leaking, but I want to re-build all four.

So - again - does anyone know how to get the driveshaft removed???

Thanks,

John

John, glad to hear you had some luck with the brake drums. On the torque tube, what exactly are you wanting to know? Are you trying to remove the propeller shaft from inside of the torque tube? I've never had mine that far apart but there are three large sections covering the complete disassembly and reassembly of the axle and all it's components in the 1952 service manual. It speaks of grinding or cutting the end of a "propeller shaft coupling pin" and driving it out. That might be what you're looking for. After reading over the section on propeller shaft removal I would not want to do this job. Look quite complicated and requires lots of special tools and grinding and cutting fasteners and clips. Good luck to you on that!

For the leaky shocks, you have two choices. Send them out to a shop to have them rebuilt($150-$200 per shock from what I hear)or you can use a tech tip from fellow member Willie(AKA OldTank). Here's a link to his website and the tech tip. I haven't tried it as mine don't leak as of yet but he reports great results from this technique. Keep us updated!

Low tech tips Rear Shocks

I see there is a pin, but, it won't budge when whacked with a hammer and drift.

You need a bigger hammer. My website also details: driveshafttool

Willie

Willie,

Thanks. I did go to your site and printed out the rear shock pages. The front shocks on the '52 are similar, but have 2 arms, making it even more difficult to remove them.

On the tube. I don't have a spare tube to cut the ends off of, but I'll figure out something. ;-)

I just ordered all the gaskets for the rear end, as well as bearings and seals, so it will be awhile before I need to remove the shaft. The only reason I'm doing so is that I want to replace the pinion seal while I have the rear end out and disassembled.

John

You can borrow my tool if needed. But unless you are replacing pinion bearings I would leave the seal alone...even if leaking it achieves a level in the torque tube that is below the driveshaft and does not harm anything. If your car has dynaflow you will need to seal at the front of the torque tube, because leaks will fill the torque tube and rear with tranny fluid. It looks like you have lots to do on that car....

Willie

Willie,

Took your advise and left the seal alone... Thanks for saving me a lot of frustrating time.

All - a few pics... I've got the rear end restored with all new gaskets, bearings, seals and wheel cylinders (except as noted above - I did not replace the bearing or seal for the 3rd member.

I've also got the frame sanded, wiped down, primed with Eastwood Rust Encapsulator and finished with Por-15. So today, I re=installed the rear end. I've get the rear shocks on the bench, working on installing new seals. The front shocks I'm sending out for new seals. Next is re-building the front suspension. (I've got all the parts for the suspension and brakes, including new drums. OUCH!) I ordered tires yesterday (another OUCH) and am in the process of sandblasting the rims getting them ready for painting. So, by the time I get the front shocks back, I'll be ready to put it all together and have a rolling frame. (Except for the steering box. I haven't started on that yet.

I love 3 day weekends... AND I have 2 weeks off coming up next month. ;-)

Looking great. I wish I had the time for a total tear down.

Sorry I haven't been keeping up with posts...

No pics today, but I now have a rolling frame completed and am working on the body, putting in floor pans, etc.

I also have the engine apart and the block at my machinist for cylinder boring and valve grinding. The crank, flywheel, new pressure plate and harmonic balancer are at the crank shop to get balanced, along with the rods and new pistons. I've re-built the trans (manual) and am waiting for the synchro I just found to get here so I can finish putting it back together. (one Synchro housing and spring wire were broken). When I get it all back from the shops, I'll be putting it together and re-installed on the frame.

I just ordered the wire I need to build a new wiring harness (the original was trashed. All the wires under the dash had been individually wrapped in tape; some had melted together; the amp gauge was melted AND it had been set up tp start by hot-wiring - no key, no keyway!) I also ordered a new firewall insulator set up as mine disintegrated by touching it.

OK - question...

My oil filter housing is/was blue with an orange top. Does anyone know the correct paint to get to approximate the original colors?\

Next time I'll include pics. I have the frame sitting outside and covered. I'll have to unwrap it to take pics.

Later all,

John

I don't know of an exact source to find the original oil filter housing colors. I based mine on viewing probably 1000's of pictures on the internet over the last few years. I primed mine with gray primer and then I think I used VHT engine enamels. I'll take some pictures of the paints tomorrow for you. Until then, here are some pictures of how mine came out. The sticker is in almost exactly the same position that the stock one came in. There were remnants of my original decal and I measured the exact location before stripping the old paint. It is supposed to be down low on the can like that. And I think that the bolt on top was painted orange too originally. I painted mine a silver color but I'm going to repaint it orange next time I change the oil. I'll get those paint names for you asap.

Thanks, Robert. I appreciate the assist.

No problem. Hope this helps.

Dupli-Color Engine Enamel

DE1620 Chevrolet Orange

DE1608 GM Blue

Just a second opinion. Not saying Robert is wrong. I did it the same way Robert did. Looked at lots of pictures then applied S.W.A.G.

Dan

I'm really bad about updating!!! The frame is done (suspension, brakes, steering); Trans re-built (needed a synchro housing and had a crack in the case) Am re-building the engine now and the reason I'm writing today...

Does anyone have a single valve spring top? The piece that goes on top of the valve spring and hold the keepers in place.

I was installing the valves and the valve spring tool slipped on the one valve and the 'valve spring top' piece went to where ALL the parts that get away from you go. Into the great parts house in another dimension!! I have torn the area I was working apart and even used a magnetic probe on the floor and it's just gone. I can't (of course) finish the head until I get another one, so...

If anyone has one of knows where I can get one, PLEASE let me know. I'm trying to get this car ready by the next National in Portland.

I've also finished replacing the floor pans and am in the process of repairing some rusted areas in the lower rear quarter panel.

And I've made a complete new wiring harness; rebuilt the starter, generator, distributor, and carb.

My engine gasket kit was missing the large rear main, so I've had to order one separately. That and the valve spring top piece are keeping my engine in pieces! HELP!

Thanks all for listening,

John

.....This car sat outside for about 40 years and was the home of MANY generations of mice and other critters. (I've vacuumed out 3 contractor bage of yuck). Add to that, the dust, the deterioration of the upholstery, and the large amout of rust dust. Plus, my shop (30X50) normally has the doors open, but the last few days cold rain and wind and I've kept the bays closed. As a result, I seem to be getting a bit fuzzy? dizzy? something. I have been wearing a mask (most ofthe time, but... ). So, tonight I'm leaving the main bay door open (we're very rural) to air things out. Most ofthe offensive stuff is now bagged. I hope this fixes it. I don't like the feeling......

SERIOUS STUFF.

A little late, but never too late, to read up on for the future and for everyone else. I picked up on the Hantavirus on the FORD BARN Model A Forum. Large amounts of rust, like on seat springs, could have resulted from mouse urine. Rural areas are also noted. Check these links out.

http://www.cdc.gov/hantavirus/hps/transmission.html

http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=119188&highlight=mice

Al Malachowski

BCA #8965

"500 Miles West of Flint"

SERIOUS STUFF.

A little late, but never too late, to read up on for the future and for everyone else. I picked up on the Hantavirus on the FORD BARN Model A Forum. Large amounts of rust, like on seat springs, could have resulted from mouse urine. Rural areas are also noted. Check these links out.

http://www.cdc.gov/hantavirus/hps/transmission.html

http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=119188&highlight=mice

Al Malachowski

BCA #8965

"500 Miles West of Flint"

Thanks much for the info. Luckily, it's been quite a while since I made that post and I'm OK, but yeah, a serious issue. I did recently get a rear seat - upper and lower (original was missing) and there is evidence of mouse/rat damage and the springs are rusted. I'll be sure to strip those down in the open air with a mask on.

Thanks again,

John

Al's right …..!

A guy on the Chevy "Stovebolt" forum that I belong to, got a nasty

fungal or virus sickness from old Chevy upholstery!

Hopefully, Buicks are of higher caliber & won't transmit such bugs!!

mike

... The frame is done (suspension, brakes, steering); Trans re-built (needed a synchro housing and had a crack in the case) Am re-building the engine now and the reason I'm writing today... I'm trying to get this car ready by the next National in Portland. I've also finished replacing the floor pans and am in the process of repairing some rusted areas in the lower rear quarter panel. And I've made a complete new wiring harness; rebuilt the starter, generator, distributor, and carb...

John

Photos? We all love photos...

Dan

OK - got some pics and another head scratcher for those of you that know...

I'm re-building the engine (DUH), so I bought a gasket kit. zeroing in on the rear main seal...

The kit included 2 thinner rope seals and one longer, thicker rope seal (pics)

The longer, thicker rope is only long enough to cover 3/4 of the circumference of the larger groove.

So, I assumed (silly me) that one of the longer, thicker ropes was missing. I went ahead and bought the rubber rear mail seal separately. I just got it. It fits the smaller groove, not the larger one.

What am I missing here?

Along with the other pics, I've included one of the seals I have (minus one of the thinner rope seals that's installed in the block) and one of the rear main cap.

Any help on what I am supposed to do about this rear main seal would be helpful and really appreciated.

The seals re the 1st 2 pics, then a shot of the pretty well finished frame, a shot of the original wiring harness (I've built a new harness since this pic was taken). Then a shot of the gunk that was in the carb. Then a number of shots of the rust damage and one of the mostly finished under-body with new floor pans and repaired rust areas.

That's all the pics for now. I've completed the rebuilds on the carb, the starter, the generator, the wiring harness, the transmission (stick) and I have a new clutch to install. I was hoping to finish the engine re-build this weekend, but I need to know what to do about the rear main seal. I've got the new pistons in and the head finished and ready to install, but I can't install the crank... (grumble, grumble, etc. )

OK - OK. My bad. I just read the manual and found out the larger groove is an oil collector/slinger. So, what is the larger rope seal for? It fits the groove, just not all the way around. Is it for something else or do I put it in the groove anyway? Upper or lower? Sorry, just confused...