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Batman Car


pyntre

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Old Barrett Jackson can really bring in the money... the original Batman Car , George Barris , just sold for 4.2 Million to a gentlman with the last name of Champagne ....fitting......I live for this week of auction on tv...eating TV dinners.......Ha Ha Ha ... no thats actually what I had !!! :):)Ha Ha Ha

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Question?

When did our ? hobby turn into a deep pockets hobby instead of a fun way to spend time on a old car in our backyard garage? I liked it better when a guy that knew a little about cars spent his time and a little money and time to work on that old hulk played around on it when he had time. I guess now that my old painting experience and every other thing that I did on a car or truck I got underpaid for. No car is worth a $10000-$20000 paint job, or $8000-$20000 transmission or engine work. In the meantime, I'll keep having fun and the rest can show off not what they're capable of doing on a car but how much money they have!

kaycee

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As read in the AZ Republic, Rick Champagne is going to knock down a wall to expand his living room and park the car in his house. He lives in Paradise Valley, AZ, the same neighborhood as Craig Jackson. If you have it, may as well spend it. At least he saved a buck on shipping.

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At least he saved a buck on shipping.
Not really. Had he had it shipped out of state, he would not have to pay Arizona Sales Tax. If you have it shipped, you don't pay the tax. If he has to pay the published rate of $2.89 for each $100 of value on the entire 4.62 million he paid for the car, his tax bill is another $133, 518.00. Shipping business must be really good.
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Question?

When did our ? hobby turn into a deep pockets hobby instead of a fun way to spend time on a old car in our backyard garage? I liked it better when a guy that knew a little about cars spent his time and a little money and time to work on that old hulk played around on it when he had time. I guess now that my old painting experience and every other thing that I did on a car or truck I got underpaid for. No car is worth a $10000-$20000 paint job, or $8000-$20000 transmission or engine work. In the meantime, I'll keep having fun and the rest can show off not what they're capable of doing on a car but how much money they have!

kaycee

I do understand what your saying, but while I agree with some of what you say, I don't agree with all of it. Certain cars are very worthy of a 20k paint job and better IMO. Do you realize the type of talent and raw man hours necessary for a top notch job?

Like anything rare and desirable, it comes with a price tag. That's just the way it is.

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Question?

When did our ? hobby turn into a deep pockets hobby instead of a fun way to spend time on a old car in our backyard garage? I liked it better when a guy that knew a little about cars spent his time and a little money and time to work on that old hulk played around on it when he had time. I guess now that my old painting experience and every other thing that I did on a car or truck I got underpaid for. No car is worth a $10000-$20000 paint job, or $8000-$20000 transmission or engine work. In the meantime, I'll keep having fun and the rest can show off not what they're capable of doing on a car but how much money they have!

kaycee

Just some random thoughts here.

Don't let the big publicized auctions indicate thats the direction the hobby has gone. I agree the old car hobby has changed over the years but there are still plenty of reasonably priced projects out there that can and are driven while work is being done on a meager budget which provides satisfaction in owning and working on a classic or unique vehicle. I know Barrett Jackson gets beat up alot on forums for artificially inflating prices but I am of the opinion everything has its place in the old car hobby. Its these people with deep pockets that often times are indirectly responsible for getting unobtainable parts reproduced which helps the guy trying to make a 100 point car to sell at BJ as well as the poor sap keeping a $2000 driver on the road. As much as I complain about TV shows of today, I think the recent surge of reality TV shows (despite their faults) depicting taking a junk car and rebuilding it for sale might start to spawn some interest by young kids to get into the hobby.

In my mid teens in the late 70s average vehicle cost for me was around $300. I'd buy them as a my sole transportation while fixing up, painting, etc all on a limited budget with limited tools and a crude drafty old garage/shed and dirt driveway. I learned early on if I bought the right car or dirt bike and did all the work myself I could actually make a profit when selling it. If I couldn't do the work myself, it wasn't done so I learned by trial and error in many aspects as that was long before the internet and youtube. I didn't know factory shop manauls existed until I was in my 20s. Now that I'm older and have some extra income, my car projects have become more expensive because I continue to push myself to reach higher levels of quality in a finished project which in turn continues the exact same learning process started when I was a youngster out of necessity.

There are few kids today in the younger generation that grow up having interest in wrenching or (sheening) as we called it in the 70s. Society pushes them to think everything can be done sitting in front of an Xbox, computer or iphone screen and parents focus on preparing them for college and heaven forbid they get their hands dirty learning some bluecollar skills. I only know maybe 2 teenage kids today who are into cars at the level in which was so common 35 years ago. Another contributing factor could be that cars today require a fraction of repairs and maintenance compared to the cars of the 60s and 70s so learning to repair cars through necessity has diminished.

So yes anyone doing most of their own wrenching on hobby cars today are in a minority now as the generations of the 60s and 70s which created so many hands-on skilled people are becoming outnumbered. On the flip side some of those materialistic kids who went to college a couple generations later, started a business, have a successful career, etc, are grown and now have enough income to buy the car they always dreamed of but don't have the time or skills to build themselves so its all good for the hobby in my opinion.

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Actually Steelman, I was just making a point that the owner of Barrett Jackson is a neighbor of the buyer, both live near the auction. The sales tax in Scottsdale on a car from a dealer is 8.95% (Barrett-Jackson) PLUS the B-J buyers fee of 10%. If the car is bought from a private party, there is no sales tax, I'd guess Jackson might give Champagne a break on the buyers fee. I suppose if he had it shipped to another state where he is also a resident (?), he may or may not have to pay the sales tax to register it in that state. At any rate I wonder where you got the 2.89%?

Jim

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Actually Steelman, I was just making a point that the owner of Barrett Jackson is a neighbor of the buyer, both live near the auction. The sales tax in Scottsdale on a car from a dealer is 8.95% (Barrett-Jackson) PLUS the B-J buyers fee of 10%. If the car is bought from a private party, there is no sales tax, I'd guess Jackson might give Champagne a break on the buyers fee. I suppose if he had it shipped to another state where he is also a resident (?), he may or may not have to pay the sales tax to register it in that state. At any rate I wonder where you got the 2.89%?

Jim

So how much did the car ACTUALLY cost him with tax and fees....I think that would really blow my mind...

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Actually Steelman, I was just making a point that the owner of Barrett Jackson is a neighbor of the buyer, both live near the auction. The sales tax in Scottsdale on a car from a dealer is 8.95% (Barrett-Jackson) PLUS the B-J buyers fee of 10%. If the car is bought from a private party, there is no sales tax, I'd guess Jackson might give Champagne a break on the buyers fee. I suppose if he had it shipped to another state where he is also a resident (?), he may or may not have to pay the sales tax to register it in that state. At any rate I wonder where you got the 2.89%?

Jim

Like all things internet, sometimes you get things you don't need or want. Tried the DMV and it was a run around. Picked this up off an E-How site, but I don't think it was right. I agree with your 8.95%. So assuming Craig Jackson didn't give him a break on the fees, and you know the state of Arizona didn't, he paid BJA $4.62 million. At the 8.95% tax rate on top of that, we get $413,490.00 for a whopping total of $5,033,490.00 to get it out the door.

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a whopping total of $5,033,490.00 to get it out the door.

Bend over and grab your ankles. All for a car that the finish quality looks like crap in person. As a matter of fact, it looked like crap the day George Barris finished it in his 15 day build of the car many years ago. I think 86' Yugo's had better paint jobs.

Yep, I know folks whom have seen this car in person. And you can even see the crappy build quality on TV.

BTW, I agree with what Jason said.

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It's easy to trash Barrett Jackson, but I find myself watching like a zombie as car after car rolls by. My wife is baffled. "How many 69 Camaros do you have to see before you get bored of this?" she says. "Don't know yet" is my reply. The entire BJ concept is a TV circus...literally. Speedchannel chops and dices things to make a good TV show. Applying the common man car guy ethic to BJ is pointless. If the show was about the common guy, nobody would watch it. It is all about hyperbole. We don't see the things that have been edited out. The real things. We don't see the achingly boring parade of "normal" cars the also cross the block but sell for less that $15K because it doesn't make good TV. We don't get an explanation of why a hand built, impeccably restored Pierce Arrow sells for a tiny fraction of what a cheaply retrofitted concept car that became Batman's car sells for $4MM plus. Remember, the Batmobile is all about good TV, the Pierce Arrow is not. What you do see if you pay attention is the role of ego. Ego is what makes somebody pay crazy money for a crazy car. Look at the guys spending gobs of money on a car, typically the first thing they do is look up to see if they are being captured on TV. Next, they look to see if their trophy wife is impressed. Many times, they seem to place more value in the "complimentary" pen they get to keep when they sign for the car than the car itself. It's just a TV show. It's unreal...but it's fun. PRL

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It's easy to trash Barrett Jackson, but I find myself watching like a zombie as car after car rolls by. My wife is baffled. "How many 69 Camaros do you have to see before you get bored of this?" she says. "Don't know yet" is my reply. The entire BJ concept is a TV circus...literally. Speedchannel chops and dices things to make a good TV show. Applying the common man car guy ethic to BJ is pointless. If the show was about the common guy, nobody would watch it. It is all about hyperbole. We don't see the things that have been edited out. The real things. We don't see the achingly boring parade of "normal" cars the also cross the block but sell for less that $15K because it doesn't make good TV. We don't get an explanation of why a hand built, impeccably restored Pierce Arrow sells for a tiny fraction of what a cheaply retrofitted concept car that became Batman's car sells for $4MM plus. Remember, the Batmobile is all about good TV, the Pierce Arrow is not. What you do see if you pay attention is the role of ego. Ego is what makes somebody pay crazy money for a crazy car. Look at the guys spending gobs of money on a car, typically the first thing they do is look up to see if they are being captured on TV. Next, they look to see if their trophy wife is impressed. Many times, they seem to place more value in the "complimentary" pen they get to keep when they sign for the car than the car itself. It's just a TV show. It's unreal...but it's fun. PRL

Its on my "Bucket List " of things to do in my lifetime , attend the Scottsdale auction ....not to buy anything, but just to watch and be a part of the CIRCUS and see how the other half live...would also like to attend SEMA but I think you have to be a vendor or something like that to get in there...

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A neat alternative in coming up on the east coast (really the coast, too). Its the Atlantic City auction in February. I went the first time in 1974 and a few times in between. The circus is there and I think there are some pretty good deals due to the time of year.

I can't verify it but I think some of the museums move overstock through this auction to maintain some off season cash flow. There is a good swap meet held along with the auction. And I have always seen one really good deal that I shudda brought home.

Just a nice winter diversion.

Bernie

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I've been volunteering to be a car pusher at the Mecum auction when it has come to Kansas City the past few years. You get in free, get on the floor, and can look at all of the cars, and, as Pyrtne says, "see how the other half lives." Kansas City doesn't get a lot of the really high dollar stuff, but there are a lot of cars that are fun to look at because lots of times you can say "I used to have one like this." (Then cry because at that time it was just another used car - like my '57 Austin Healey 100-6, my '68 Dodge Charger, a '70 Chevelle, and a couple of '55 Chevies.) Lots of muscle cars, some older stuff, and some late model stuff that perhaps someone is trying to flip.

Ed

Edited by RivNut (see edit history)
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A Batmobile replica or even a tribute is big on my want list.

The bad things about BJ is the stigma it puts on rusted out clunkers people think are worth as much as cars on TV and non-car guys getting in on it for investments. Luckily all those million dollar Bel Airs, Hemis, etc aren't going to bring anywhere near what they did in 2006 which will scare off a lot from investing.

I'd like to hear more though about the history of investing in automobiles. I guess really though like anything else it goes second hand to collecting. I'm sure even in the 50s people started seeing the value in ACD, Packard, Pierce Arrow, V12/V16 Cadillacs.

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Some cars are obvious investment grade regardless of what era they date to. Thats' typically a narrow band of cars that were expensive to begin with and historically retain and command top dollar from a limited number of wealthy collectors. The BJ phenomenon is built on a different dynamic: Scores of successful, recently retired baby boomers have driven up the prices of more common vehicles that invoke the cars of their youth. Importantly, these cars are very drivable and relatively easy to fix compared to the elite cars of the past like Dusenberg, Packard etc. I think there will be a gradual cooling of the whole BJ thing. It's already happening. The baby boomers will die off, younger buyers lack the connection with these cars and the collector market will see beyond the speculators and recognize cars for their true value. That said, it's good for Riv prices. The baby boomer who gets tied of the hard ride, noise and heat of his 69 COPO Camaro replica is looking for something else. The undervalued, underexposed, luxuriously appointed, 60's swank of the Riv is the perfect next car. Anyone else agree? PRL

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I have a good picture of the white one. It was used by Bernie Wayne, Bruce's less sinister brother who didn't like annoying music.

The Song:

http://brockportinternational.com/xjs/Dir5/60%20Buick/09%20-%20Anchor%27s%20Aweigh.mp3 (right click and open in new tab)

The car:

Batavia1.JPG

USN 1967-1971 USS Arlington AGMR-2, USS Soley DD707, USS Gainard DD706

Edited by 60FlatTop (see edit history)
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OK Riviera people: AGAIN. A collector car is not an investment. It is a commodity, no different than any other object. Some things go up in value, some things go down. It's like a vacation, art, jewelery or going to a nice restauarant. You spend the money and hopefully you get what you wanted and anything left over is gravy. Yes, gravy can be put in a doggie bag and taken home.

If you are in the business of flippin' cars then your inventory is an investment, otherwise quit dreaming. I remember this contestant on the Groucho show talking about how he moved to from New York to Los Angeles with the Dodgers, who he worked for. As Groucho interviewed him he complained about the "Beating" he took when he sold his house. At the time i watched this old classic show (mid 70's) I couldn't believe that houses could go down in value. I got a fast lesson in reality.

I asked this before. Could Barris do a 1031 exchange on that Bat vehicle? Mitch

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Guest 63 rivenge

I just got back from the Mecum show , and I did not know that GM made that many Corvettes and Camaros. .(lol)....This was my first time at a Mecum event and yes it is something to see. But out of all the 3,000 plus cars, only ONE 1963 Riviera was seen, and a frame off car that went for 23 K. Everyone was around this car, and it was a nice example . Out of all the cars I have had when I take my 63 to a show or out for a drive, I have more people over this car then any other Chev or Ford or whatever I have owned. My point..........these Rivs are so different and such a Class act, who needs to spend a 100k to have fun, and thats what its all about .

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Buy what you like and what you can afford, then you are happy. Some people can afford 7 figure cars, and, for the most part, they aren't typing messages on forums. I'm perfectly happy with someone spending their money on cars. I'd do the same thing if I had it. I buy (and restore) cars in my range. Some people just pay others to maintain and repair/restore their cars, but that's most of the fun for me.

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i think a customized 65 riviera gran sport would have been a much better platform from which to create the original batmobile. charles coker, 1953 pontiac tech advisor.

Barris didn't have to do much but put the Batmobile goodies on an already stock Futura. Customizing a '65 would have been a lot more work. It's probably a lot easier to modify concept cars than production cars.

lincolnfutura23.jpg?w=690&h=459

lincolnfutura.jpg?w=690&h=458

lincoln_futura_121.jpg?w=690&h=366

lincoln_futura_10.jpg?w=690&h=536

The concept car was so popular, it was even created for children in the form of model cars.

lincoln-futura-revell.jpg?w=4601956 Revell Lincoln Futura Model

The original concept car was painted red in 1959 and was featured in the movie “It Started with a Kiss” starring Debbie Reynolds & Glenn Ford. Following the filming of the movie, the car was sold to George Barris for $1. The car was parked in a back Hollywood lot and rusted away for several years before it was used as the inspiration for the original Batmobile in 1966.

lincoln-futuradebbieandglenn.jpg?w=690&h=497The Futura featured in "It Started with a Kiss"

lincoln-futurarustyfuturafront.jpg?w=690The Futura rusting away in a back lot

lincoln-futurarustyfuturarear1.jpg?w=690

The 1966 patent for the original Batmobile based on the Lincoln Futura

The original Batmobile from the Batman television show

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Compare these pictures to the TV Batmobile and they really illustrate how Barris seemed to work. He was a TV customizer. He took a car and spiffed it up to look flashy on TV but didn't do what I'd consider to be fine coachwork or customization. He didn't build the swoopy Batmobile shape we all know. Ford did that with their Futura concept. Barris is a good marketer and sort of an opportunist. I once looked through a book of his work. Most of the cars he did for shows or celebrities involved wheels, pipes, paint and interior tricks like fur headliners. Nothing against the guy, he's a legend, but his work was gimmicky for the sake of drama. PRL

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He took a car and spiffed it up to look flashy on TV but didn't do what I'd consider to be fine coachwork or customization. Most of the cars he did for shows or celebrities involved wheels, pipes, paint and interior tricks like fur headliners. Nothing against the guy, he's a legend, but his work was gimmicky for the sake of drama. PRL

Pete hit the nail on the head here. Open this link and see what Barris has done to other Buicks, lots of which were supplied to him by Buick. It appears that he may have had a chat with Bill Mitchell before coming up with the Villa Riviera - hidden headlights! It took Bill two years into production to get it on the factory car. George was good at chopping tops, opening wheel wells, modifying grills and taillights, but he really didn't come up with any creative ideas for completely different cars.

Palm Springs Automobilist: Villa Riviera

Ed

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