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1953 Pontiac Chieftain 4 Door


JP75

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More progress some of the big parts are starting to go back together very exciting. The right side suspension went back together this weekend only a few more parts and the front suspension will be done. I sill need to find left hand threaded wheel stud and get it pressed in before I can paint the left drum. The right drum is back on more so to get it off the floor and the mental wow factor. It will have to come off later there no brakes in the drum yet. Even though the wheel cylinders were not leaking and stopped the car when we towed it home I did find pits were the seals will travel so I think it is time to retire the original parts and get new cylinders.

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Two wheels blasted and painted. Two more to go and I still need to find a spare rim. The two painted rims had dried for a week so I took them and had the new tires installed. I was very nervous I just new the new paint was going to flake off. All went well and I could not pass up the chance to pull out one of the hub caps. It needs a lot of polishing but, very motivated to keep working.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Making some good progress. The front suspension is just about done. Working on cleaning up the steering box so the drag link will not have to be supported by jack stand.

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The last major piece that is holding up completing the front suspension is the left hub. I have been trying to replace a broken wheel stud and I just found out why all of the replacement wheel suds that were supposed to be direct replacements were too small.

I thought the stud hole was not damaged when I removed the broken stud many years ago. I finally took the drum off of the hub and the reason I can not find a replacement stud that fits became clear. What I found was the portion of all of the studs that press into the drum is flared and has a much larger diameter then the part of the stud that is in the hub. When I pushed the broken stud back through the hole the stud enlarged it. So if you have to replace a wheel stud on a 53 54 Pontiac check the stud first.

I have decided to replace the hub. I think I have found a good one and it should deliver next week.

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Started to mess with the engine and transmission once the front suspension is complete the engine and transmission will be next on the list. I opened the engine gasket set I bought years ago who would have thought a Fellpro head gasket would rust. I guess this would be considered trash now. One more thing back on the need list.

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In the old days once the studs were pressed into the hub a swedging tool was used to flare out the protruding part of the stud to make sure it was tight and never came out. When it became necessary to remove the stud, a special cutter was placed over the stud and the flare was cut off before pressing the stud out. If the flare wasn't removed, it enlarged the hole, as you found out.

I worked in an auto machine back in the day and did a million of those tasks. If the hole wasn't to sloppy, I could take a center punch and hit close to the hole and all around the hole, to expand the metal and in effect, make the hole smaller so the hub or drum wouldn't need to be replaced.

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Learned something and I thought I would share because I am sure there is another thrifty (okay cheep) person who my think a 64 year old sealed wheel bearing is still good. By dumb luck I discovered mine were trash. In an earlier post I said both sides turn fine with a bit of resistance as if the bearings were pushing through good grease. I had the rear all back together and resting on the wheels for several months. I put the rear back on jack stands to take the wheels off for paint and the for some reason I tried to turn the left rear wheel. It did not turn and had locked up solid. After thinking I messed up something with the hogs head I removed axle and discovered it was the wheel bearing. I cut the bearing off and the grease had dried up and the chunks had broken loose and locked the bearing up. So long story short both bearings will be replaced.

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  • 2 weeks later...

No Jack stands!!!

All 4 wheels are now painted and all new rubber has been installed. I hope to have the steering column back together and installed this weekend. It will have to come off again when the body is put back on but, once installed I will be able to roll the chassis outside for a good wash and properly clean the garage.

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Started cleaning up the engine. I have started tackling the low hanging fruit. The valve covers are easy to remove, clean and paint. I was able to paint them this week with the correct Pontiac green. I have waiting to see what this was going to look like. I am very pleased.

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Even though the engine was supposed to have been rebuilt I believe I have decided to disassemble the majority of it and do some checking while I have easy access.

I do need some help how do you remove he valves? Overhead valve set up no problem and i am sure this is very similar just up side down. The shop manual talks about replacing valve seats and adjusting the valves but, It does not tell me how to remove them.

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I have decided to replace the timing chain. I do not know if the slack in this chain is normal and I have not been able to find a spec to check but, it just seems excessive. I have tried to measure the amount slop and it seems to be in the range of 3/8 of an inch of movement.

If any body has an opinion on this I would be pleased to hear it.

The gears do not seem to be warn and I am still debating if they need to be replaced. I have seen several kits with new gears and chain but, I am not sure of the quality. I am afraid of some made in China junk that will self destruct. I have seen NOS chains that seem to be the best option so far.

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hi, to remove the valves, you'll need to use a large C clamp type valve spring compressor, i don't believe that your timing chain has excessive amounts of play, but while you have the engine open, i would go ahead and change it or the complete timing set. charles coker, 1953 pontiac tech advisor.

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Thanks Pontiac1953 for the tip for removing the valves. I had tried my big C valve clamp before but, it did not seem to work and started to bend. I tried it again to night and the the valve and the spring finally separated. I was able to remove the keepers and got one valve out. However I now have a new question in regards to the springs. I thought they would just come out once the valve was removed but no. I see two options either the valve adjustment screws down into the lifter or the what looks to be the valve seat has to come out the top of the block. I am sure there is something I am missing.

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Thanks Pontiac1953 for the tip for removing the valves. I had tried my big C valve clamp before but, it did not seem to work and started to bend. I tried it again to night and the the valve and the spring finally separated. I was able to remove the keepers and got one valve out. However I now have a new question in regards to the springs. I thought they would just come out once the valve was removed but no. I see two options either the valve adjustment screws down into the lifter or the what looks to be the valve seat has to come out the top of the block. I am sure there is something I am missing.

hi, you are going to have to rotate the crank (if the timing chain & gears are still mounted) to get each lifter off the opening or closing ramp of each cam lobe, so that lifter is riding on the cam's base circle. that will give you the most amount of room to remove the valve springs. the valve guides do get remove if needed thru the top of the block. valve seat replacement is also done thru the top of the block. charles coker, 1953 pontiac tech advisor. p.s. please check my nos instrument cluster in my part of this section of the forum.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I took advantage of the day off and got a start on dismantling my engine. I am starting to think Grandpa was a little off on what was done and when the engine rebuild took place. I finally was able to remove the valve springs A crow bar, a large screw driver and a heavy towel to keep the springs from shooting across the room did wonders. I am sure I will have to locate a side valve spring compressor or make something up to get them back in. I took the crank out and for the most part it appears to be in great shape. The rod journals are not completely smooth and I am hoping a polishing will be all that is required to get them back into shape. One of the rod bearing had a grove cut into it. It looks like a piece of trash or something got into it. The corresponding Journal did not have a grove to match and was actually in the same condition if not better in appearance the the rest.

I have started looking for a machine shop to inspect the crank and advise if a polishing is all it needs. Fingers crossed.

If anybody In the Winston Salem, Greensboro area that can recommend a shop please do so.

Rod Bearing with Groove

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Short and light. LOL.

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  • 2 weeks later...

It looks like progress might start to slow down a little while funds are built back up. I originally started tearing down my engine to do a good cleaning and painting and it has turned into a full rebuild. I found a machine shop near my work to take the crank. Hopefully I will get it back next week. When I dropped it off the owner thought the crank was in good shape and if it measured in spec he thinks a polishing will be all it needs and if it does need to be ground it will be minimal.

Dad decided for my birthday he was going to have my radiator boiled out and tested while we were on vacation. He took it to the same guy who did his model A radiator over the winter and ended up having the core replaced. The guy said it was clogged so bad it would never clean out enough to not cause problems and recommended a new core. It has the original upper and lower tanks and sides attached to a new core. He put on a new top neck, overflow tube (my original had rust holes) and a new drain. The radiator man said this core is the same as the original but has more rods then the original so it should cool as good as if not better than the original. I hope he is right so far on appearance along he did a good job.

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Because the radiator was so clogged I thought I would remove all the freeze plugs and dig around with some stiff wire and see how much rust I could get out. I kept digging and digging and decided I had to be more aggressive. I drug out the pressure washer and now I have a rust colored drive way. There were pockets of rust, scale and rust flakes over an inch deep and the drain plug on the side of the block that is a few inches lower then the main water chamber was 100% clogged and took forever to unclog. Even with a new radiator I would have had cooling problems and most likely clogged the new radiator.

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Taking the pressure washer to the block sent crud everywhere and I could not bring myself to just clean what I could see so I took it all apart pistons and all and I am glad I did this thing is a mess. The pistons are cruddy and from what I have read in the shop manual this are the original pistons. I am pulling the wrist pins and I am going to clean everything and hope they are still with in spec. I do not want to buy new pistons if I do not have to. Using the limited measuring tools I have it appears the cylinders are very close to there original spec. and I think I will be able to put a good crosshatch inside the cylinders and use standard rings.

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It does appear I will need a valve job. Two of the sixteen valve seats will need to be ground for sure. It looks like these were the two valves that were open when the car sat under a carport for 30 plus years and some moisture crept in. Two exhaust seats look like the picture below.

So the tear down for a clean up and paint has grown into having the crank turned/polished, new main and rod bearings, new cam bearings, new piston rings and a valve grind. Oh and I have a NOS timing chain and cam sprocket in transit. I want to be able to drive this car long distances so I am glad I found these issues now instead of latter when the engine is in the car.

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  • 1 month later...

Well it looks like I may end up having to take the block and have it bored. The cylinders looked okay but, after a few seconds with a flex hone and every thing changed. With the glaze gone defects may as well be lit up with neon everything shows up. In at least 4 cylinders I have found vertical scratches. They are all different but, I can feel all of them with my finger nail some defiantly more than others. I have been doing some reading and some people say if it was running well before the tear down run a flex hone through it knock the glaze off install new rings and enjoy it. However on the other hand which I am leaning toward is get it bored to remove the scratches which means new pistons. However if it will not effect anything I think I might be able to live with it. This is were I am going to have to rely on the professionals.

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I tried to take a few pictures of scratches take a look and give me your honest opinion.

While I have been slowed down with engine work I started removing the rear body brace. Fixing this part was the whole reason I decided to take the body off. I could not figure out how to remove it with the body on the frame. Now I know I made the correct decision this thing put up a good fight but, I finally won.

If I had left it along at least it would not have held any more water it is fairly well ventilated.

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On a different note does any body know the difference in these to parts. I have a spare head and I had it out and I noticed my head has GM1 and the spare head has a GM2 on it. Does any body know what this means? Both of them are off of a 1953 however the spare head was off a two door if that makes any difference. post-88992-14314270608_thumb.jpg

Paul - It was Gordon's that did my radiator. From what I can see you are in the Winston Salem area do you have a good local machine shop to recommend?

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Took my block to a machine shop yesterday afternoon. I had stopped by this shop earlier in the week to ask about the vertical scratches. His first question was have I had the bores checked for being out of round or funnels. He said if I brought it by he take some quick measurements and depending on what they were would determine the next step. Well to quote him I have "8 perfect funnels" He could tell they have had some work done in the past but, they basically did what was needed to put in a new set of rings. One good example that stuck was one of the bores was 13-14 thousands larger at the top of the bore then the base. He recommended a 30 thousand over bore would be enough to fix it properly. So I have started looking at new pistons. Any body have any suggestions? I have read about problems on other posts but, I think it is like any other item. People only post reviews when things go wrong.

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JP,

There is always Kanter's: http://www.kanter.com/p22-pon.html

I have not purchased anything from them, but a lot of other folks do.

Also Egge: http://www.egge.com/site/?d=48&dt=1&SubCategoryId=2&make=PONTIAC&rpp=10

And Vintage Auto Parts: http://www.vapinc.com/pistonsandrelated/main.html

You might check with the Pontiac club forum and see who they have had good luck with, they ought to know the reliable and reasonably priced sources. And there is always the Fall Charlotte AutoFair coming up next weekend, you might find a really good deal there (or might find nothing :D): http://www.charlotte-autofair.com/

One word of caution - don't let the machine shop bore and finish hone the block until you provide the pistons to them!

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  • 1 month later...

Well a big mile stone happened today. I took my block to the engine machine shop today. I am going to have it cleaned, bored out 30 over, install the cam bearings and clean up the valve seats. The shop has a lead time of about 3 - 4 weeks not to bad. I can not help to be nervious that is a lot of money I just dropped off and left. However if something goes wrong I hear the 53 Pontiac was designed to have a V8. Always have to have a plan B.

While the engine is out I am going to clean up the hydramatic and hope it is in better condition then the engine is in. It shifted well when I had it running so I am hopeing a good cleaning, painting and change the rear seal will be all that is required.

Maybe in a few weeks I will have a few pictures showing the engine and trans back on the frame. I'm excited just thinking about it.

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post-32395-143142785909_thumb.jpgone of my favorite subject, after WWII, pontiac engineers started working on a L head V8 design, with 269 cid, in 1949, when both cadillac and oldsmobile started production of their overhead valve V8's, pontiac engineers got a hold of a olds 303 cid rocket V8, they down sized the 303 to a 270 cid, the engineers then ran tests comparing the pontiac 269 to the olds 270, the olds engine won on every test. the engineers now knew that the pontiac 269 V8 wouldn't sell well at all, the 269 program was ended, then the engineers started with whole new design, 287 cid, overhead valves, reverse flow cooling, stud mounted ball & rockers, exhaust manifolds kept away from the spark plugs. pontiac planned for the 287 to come out with the 1953 pontiac model year, pontiac had built 23 production prototypes of the 1953 models with the 287 installed, over 100,000 miles of testing, 11 more engines were run on test stands, over one million miles worth of total testing, well the buick and oldsmobile divisions learned of pontiac's plan for 1953, buick and olds went to the general motors board of directors, and protested that if pontiac did have the new 287 V8 in it's cars for 1953, buick and olds were going to lose alot of their customers to a 1953 pontiac with a modern V8 engine just as good, if not better than buick and olds engines. the directors agreed, and ordered pontiac to not bring out the new V8 untill 1955, saying that chevy also might have their 265 V8 engine ready too. so the straight eights and sixes stayed in production untill the end of the 1954 pontiac model year. the pontiac frame has the room for the V8 engine, but there are no holes drilled in the frame for a V8 installation.

charles l. coker

1953 pontiac tech advisor

tech advisor coordinator

poci

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  • 2 months later...

It has been a while since my last update. Not much has happened my engine is still at the machine shop. What started out as just a freshening up has turned out to be full rebuild. I took my block to the machinist to have it bored 30 over and it has just gone down from there. So far I am really impressed with the owner. I told him what I wanted out of the engine and he has been showing me things and answering all my questions. I am not a big fan of working in a cold garage so the time he has taken has not been a big deal. The block has been cleaned and it took several soakings for all of the oil passages to come clean. The block is going to be decked with a straight edge across the full length of the block a 3 thousand filler gauge would fit under the straight edge above the 4 center bores. I am going to have him clean up the head and check it and deck it if needed. Next all 16 valve guides are going to be replaced. The 8 intakes were in worse shape then the exhaust. Which is the exact opposite then normal. The guides were like upside down funnels and rocked back and forth. The valves matched I have 8 new intake valves in transit now the originals were beyond savings. The owner and I were talking about the engines condition and I told him it only had 47-48 thousand on it. He thought it 150,000 on it due to how much wear. He asked if it was run with out an air cleaner for a long time because sucking in dirt would explain its condition. I then told him the history of the car that it started out on a tobacco farm Outside of Pinehurst NC were the ground is all sand and rarely saw a paved road. In the summer the old sand roads throw up a cloud of sand dust like talcum powder and the old air cleaner must have sucked fine sand partials for years. We think that has to be what happened to this engine.

While the block is at the machinist I have been working on painting the bolt ones like the timing chin cover, bell housing and the oil pan. Don't do what I did. I had the engine sitting on 4 x 4s on the floor and bumped it one day and it fell forward and dented the oil pan. It has been a blast trying to fix it. I l all most have it fixed. The baffle will not hit the crank and all I have left to do is finish the knocking out the small high and low spots and It will be ready to paint.

Question - is it okay to use a very small amount of filler on the oil pan?

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I would think that the heat cycles would cause the filler to crack, just defeating your purpose. It looks like you have it pretty well smoothed out, so I would try a high heat primer and build up a heavy layer over the damaged area. Let it cure, then sand and repeat.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Not much to update. I have taken advantage of some of the somewhat nice days. I have painted the Hydra-Matic I think it has come out real nice. I still have to replace the rear seal and I am contemplating replacing the front seal. I have not been able to find directions on how to replace it. I do not want to dissemble anything I do not have to. I can not wait to get my engine back so I can put all these clean parts back on the frame. I am getting so close to starting body work again. My goal will be to have the body back on the frame this summer. Gotta have a goal.

I found my last major missing piece over the new years shut down. Story is my Uncle gave away the spare long ago when he was using the car as his daily driver. I was able to go to an old salvage yard that is slowly disappearing and he still had whats left of a 54 Pontiac and it had two wheels left on it. I now have a spare wheel. It us not as nice as the 4 original to my car but, I think it will clean up nice.

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  • 2 months later...

Progress is being made small amounts but progress. I have the trans back together new seals and gaskets. It worked fine when I briefly had it running so knock on wood it will not need to come out again.

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I started cleaning up the torus and fly wheel mating surfaces. There was some sort of yellow gasket glue that came off easy and small gasket pieces that are stuck in the many grooves running around the mating surfaces. The last thing I want is to leave some old gunk and have a leak that was preventable.

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A future task that I have started pondering. It is hard to see in the pictures but the shifter linkage and shifter arm to the trans are both warn and have a little play. Not crazy sloppy but enough that can be felt when I put the two together. I have read the shifter adjustments have to be spot on or the trans will shift funny and I am concerned this may impact the adjustments. I may be worried about nothing so I would appreciate any insight on this topic.

What I am thinking about doing is adding some weld to the worn areas and then filing it smooth. This sounds easy in theory but, I keep thinking it may be hard to get the round surfaces in the correct shapes. Any better ideas on how to correct it?

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I would like to add my two pennies if you don't mind. First I would get a mic or calipers and measure a nice round area on the male rod end so you will have a good round measurement. Then drill the hole bigger on the arm piece and press in a bushing making sure that the inside diameter is going to be at least .002/.003 bigger than the male rod end measurement. Then I would build up the worn area on the male rod end with weld, but not past the cotter pin holes or cover up the good round area you measured. Then clamp it down on a mill table. Use a coaxil indicator on the good round area to get a true center, then use a adjustable boaring head to turn it to the original size. Then it will be truely round and will fit the arm bushing nicely. :rolleyes:

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  • 3 weeks later...

Not to much to show on this update. I am still waiting on my engine. I spoke to the machinist this week and he has replaced all of the valve guides and has bored it 30 over and will have it honed this week. The major tasks should be completed this week and the final operations will be completed in short order. Deck the block and head, valve job and cam bearings.

I have found something a bit odd. There are 5 or 6 carb gaskets in a stack between the intake and the carb heat shield. I will have to do some looking to see if this is correct it seems a bit odd to be factory but, this could have been a solution to reduce vapor lock. Any ideas?

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The intake and exhaust are bolted together and for the most part came apart easily. Only one bolt broke and once the exhaust and intake were seperated direct heat from the inside allowed the bolt to back out.

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Still looking for a correct replacement heat riser spring. I have a spring for a Chevy stove bolt 6 I am going to try with a torch to see if it has enough strength to rotate the shaft and weight. Before I can try the Chevy spring I have to find a way to remove the remains of the old spring from the heat riser shaft. So far it is very happy staying were it is. The shaft is in good shape and there is no play were the shaft goes through the casting so I would like to be able to make it work properly.

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The intake cleaned up nice. I have not decided what to do with the exhaust. I have read most paints will eventually burn or peal off so I am thinking I might clean it up and leave it as it is.

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I did get the crank back last week. All of the journals were turned 20 over. I am so glad I found a new machinist. He is not the fastest in the world but the attention to detail has been out standing. The first machinist I took the crank too said it will be fine with standard bearings and did not need to be turned. He recommended running the correct 30 weight and it will be fine and all he had to do was polish the journals. The journals still were not smooth when he was finished (reason I found a new shop) so I took it to the new guy to look over and he showed me how bad it was.

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  • 3 months later...

Hi everybody it has been awhile since my last update.  However this has to be one of the best ones yet.  MY engine is back !!!!!!!   What started out as a simple freshening up turned into a full rebuild.  Now I just have to put it back together.

 

Its freshening up turned into a 30 over bore, new pistons, all 16 new valves, all 16 new valve guides, the block and head decked, the valve seats cleaned up, new cam bearings, and the crank turned 20 thou. 

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi Paul funny you should ask a major mile stone was achieved tonight.

 

A couple pictures of the engine assy. So far the engine has gone together without any issues and what should be the easy tasks have been the most trouble.  I got lucky and picked up a 2nd gasket set at the last Charlotte Auto fair. I had to dig into the 2nd kit because I managed to ruin the timing chain cover gasket.  I wish a I had a picture to show how the timing cover and front motor mount go together.  The new gasket is cork and what I took off was something else (much harder). The front motor mount share the bottom bolt holes with the timing cover and when I tightened the motor mount the first time I squeezed out the cork gasket and ruined it.Bits were cut off.  The second one I used some Indian head gasket sealer and took my time and let each step set up and so far it has worked. Also the timing chain was a bare to get back on.  I even tried the original chain and speokets with 3/4 inc of slop and it was a bare.  If the gears were not lined up just right the cam gear would not slide on.  It took an hour to get it on. Almost on slop at all.   

 

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Dad came over tonight and we were able to set the engine and transmission in the frame. I think he was more excited about it then I was, am. My biggest fear was the gasket between the flywheel and the torus.  I was not let down it must have fallen off a half dozen times.  We finally got the two units together and did not damage it.  I had read it would be a chore to install the 30 bolts that hold the two together but I did not have a problem at all. I just hope it does not leak.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 11 months later...

Hi I cannot believe it has been a year since my last post. I am finally back in the mood to share I have not made to much progress on the Pontiac but I have been busy.  Last year I really wanted a classic car as daily driver or as close to a daily driver as possible. I finally realized I had the Midget and spent the Winter, Spring and most of the summer getting it back on the road and dependable.  I had completed a beginner (no money) frame off restoration in the early 2000's and and spent this year fixing the items I did not have money to fix or did a bad job rebuilding.  I went through the engine and gear box again and completed a few other tasks that I had been putting off.  That and its first alignment in 10 years got it back on the road for about two weeks.   Then one of the rear wire wheel hubs spun.  I knew the splines were worn but did not realize how bad.  I got lucky it spun and loosened up the nut coming off the interstate.  I then took another two months switching it over to steel wheels.  I will switch it back to wire knock offs when he budget allows. I am not sure how the pictures will line up but I thought I would share a few pics of the Midget and I thought at least this group would get a good laugh of it sitting next to such a large Nash at its first cruse in.

 

The rest of the pictures are of the small projects I have completed on the Pontiac.  Now that the Midget is behaving I have started working on the Pontiac and will hopefully make some good progress in the next few months.  Mostly I have been acquiring new grill parts to replace the parts damaged years ago. I still have about 4 pcs to go. So the short update includes installing the the last rear wheel bearing the grease was not dried up like the right side was but it was very thin and starting to leak.  The fuel pump was rebuilt and installed, shocks both front and rear, and the exhaust installed. I made a new fuel line out of the correct size tubing I had bought a 3/8 but it just was not right and it bugged me.  I have started cleaning up the starter this week.  It was full of sand not sure how that happened but I am glad I decided to do this it was working well when I last had it running and could have just been painted and installed.  I found the engine green paint on both the ends of the starter and ran out of paint so another can will have to be ordered. I need more for touch ups anyway. Just to be sure does anybody know for sure what the color the body body of the starter should be?  I am thinking engine green.  

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