How is the Vibration Damper Removed? 1927 Packard

I assume removing the center "nut" from the vibration damper will allow its removal. Is there a spanner wrench to remove the center "nut" from the vibration damper in order to remove the vibration damper? Does anyone have such a spanner I could borrow or purchase?

I assume removing the center "nut" from the vibration damper will allow its removal. Is there a spanner wrench to remove the center "nut" from the vibration damper in order to remove the vibration damper? Does anyone have such a spanner I could borrow or purchase?

Did you figure this out? I would very much like to know the answer to this as well in regard to my '28 5-26. I've removed the center nut from the output shaft and the belt drive pulley, but the harmonic balancer doesn't have room to slide off. When I pull it forward, it it hits the front frame cross brace before it's gone far enough to slide off of the output shaft.

The service manual's procedure for removing the timing chain cover makes no mention of a vibration damper on the 526--only on the 443. I'm beginning to wonder if my car is supposed to have one, or if one was added when it was restored. If the latter, whoever did so likely installed it with the engine out of the car and may not have realized the consequences. I am really not looking forward to tearing apart the front suspension to remove the cross brace, or pulling the motor, so I hope there's something I'm missing...

Here's a picture of what I'm dealing with. Thanks!

I believe you will find that the vibration damper is original equipment and that you will indeed need to pull the motor or remove the cross member to remove it.

That photo of the dampener shows that it appears to be in two pieces. Uncover the paint and you may find it to be an easier job than you realize...

Good luck,

Tom

Update: Based on feedback from others here and on different forums, I did decide to try separating the damper in place. I created a rudimentary puller by welding a 7/16 nut to a piece of 3/16 strap and clamped it to the front of the damper. The puller worked as planned, but to no avail. Either the sections of my damper are hopelessly oxidized together, or it doesn't dismantle the way I'd surmised. All I accomplished via this process was the destruction of two perfectly good c-clamps. Those are easily replaceable though, and the damper isn't, so no real harm done.

Of the two possible remaining options, raising the engine or removing the front cross member, I thought perhaps the cross member removal may in fact be easiest in terms of disruption to other systems and work involved. As a first step, I removed the driver's side horizontal sheet metal cowling that obscures the frame rail and to which the hood clamp is affixed. Unfortunately, I now see that the cross member is riveted to the longitudinal frame rails. The only remaining option seems to be raising / removing the engine.

Unfortunately, I don't believe there's adequate clearance from the firewall to accommodate simply raising the front of the engine, as it needs to come up at least 2 inches. Even removing all 12 bolts and jacking the entire motor seems problematic, as I think such an approach would be likely to damage the two sheet metal cowlings bolted to the oil pan on either side of engine, among other things (manifolds, linkages, etc.). Therefore, I think it's time I accept Restorer32's opinion that I will likely need to completely disconnect and remove the motor outright. I suppose I'll get to it. Damn...

I have found on these projects it is easier to just bite the bullet and do it the right way. You likely have already spent more time than would have been needed to just pull the engine in the first place. Even if you get the damper off you still might not be able to remove the timing cover.

I got the damper off last night without having to pull the engine. A heavier duty puller worked, and once done, the timing / front engine cover is trivial to remove.

As theorized, the damper is pressed together and can be disassembled by removing the flywheels from the center hub. Mine at least is comprised of 3 main pieces + 6 springs: A front and rear flywheel held apart by springs, and a center hub with a flange on the rear. When new, I suspect the flywheels were relatively simple to separate and slide off of the hub, so the service manual doesn't detail the process. After 86 years however...

Later dampers may be more complex, but I wouldn't hesitate to open one of these if you're faced with the same situation. There's not much going on inside, and reassembly should be trivial. The caveat being that I suspect they don't work very well, even when new. My two halves were completely fused, so it was, in effect, just a chuck of iron on the crank. That's not entirely useless though, as its inertia will offer some damping. Bottom line, if the paint seam between the halves of your damper is unbroken, you too just have a chunk of iron bolted to your crank.

One observation I'd offer though, is that there may be disadvantages to having the damper work as designed. As mentioned, whoever rebuilt my engine placed two shims between the drive pulley and the front flywheel to effectively lock the damper. Without those, there is a 1/32" or so gap, which I believe intentionally exists to allow the flywheels some clearance to rotate. The trouble is, this is a very unsophisticated design, and there are no bearings or friction plates used. Any rotation of the flywheels is almost certainly going to subject the inner hub and drive pulley to metal on metal wear. I never noticed the damper wasn't working before, so I think I'll again lock it up with a shim upon reassembly.

*** Asterisk *** My understanding of how this things works could be completely and utterly wrong, so use your own judgement!

In closing, the moral of this story is, as with so many others: When in doubt, use a BFH. Thanks to everyone who offered suggestions!

Chalk one up for those Packard engineers!

Your persistence certainly paid off - sure beats pulling that hunk of iron out.

Great job.

Tom

Its been years,,,,seems I recall friction disks in there,,somewhere

Packard did a LOT of reserch on that damper,,,,really did,,

Cheers,,Ben

Hi Ben, You're absolutely right. Since my last post, I've discovered from a parts manual post on another forum that there are two friction disks (Packard p/n #146998) that go between the hub and flywheel on the rear, and the pulley and flywheel on the front. The 6 springs press the two halves into those two disks, which creates a friction coupling between damper and crank. I have a source that may be able to provide two of those, but in the mean time, I've CNC cut two aluminum rings (3-1/8" ID x 4-5/8" OD) out of 090 aluminum to serve the same purpose.

I've taken a few better pictures of the damper completely disassembled and prepped for paint, grease and reassembly. In addition to the 3 main components (2 flywheels and the hub), there is a brass sleeve bearing that slides onto the hub and upon which the flywheels themselves rotate. I didn't separate the sleeve from the hub, as it doesn't want to budge and I see no reason to force the issue, but you can see it clearly here while being polished:

I believe the two grooves are intended to contain grease to further assist with lubrication.

The open circular piece surrounding the hub and springs is a ribbon of brass that slides into the flywheels' inside perimeter grooves. When assembled, it forms a complete circle, and is I suspect included to prevent water ingress.

All back together!

I dont think the groove is for greese,,,if it were, there would be a fitting or at least a plug as on the Mechanics U joints,,,

Hmmm 4 bladed fan,,,thought they were all 6,,,and a bit noisy,,

Thanks for the details,,,they reinforce my memory as being correct after being away from them for so long,,,Cheers,,Ben