2012 La Crosse first gear shift point is 6000 rpm.

Buick has a real problem. The 6 speed transmission is programmed to stay in first gear up to 6000 rpm. Buick has refused to make any adjustment to a lower rpm shift point.

Not only my La Crosse has this problem, a search for information reveals others are suffering from the same symtoms. Here is just one comment from Edmonds.

By thadp

on 02/04/12

07:57 AM (PST)

PS-With further analysis of the concern with how the 2012 Lacrosse V6 transmission is geared it is now my conclusing that the problem is the shift pattern program causing the engine to reach excessively high RPM before it shifts into second gear. With only moderate throttle opening, the V6 Lacrosse does not up shift from first geat to second gear until it reaches 5000 RPM. This is an abnormal shift pattern that makes an otherwise great car feel less than normal in acceleration from a standing start to keep up with traffic flow. Buick dealers are aware of this situation but cannot change or correct it because it is how the transmission is programmed by Buick for reasons that cannot be satisfactorily explained. Owners of 2012 Buick Lacrosse vehicles should contact the Buick Customer Assistance Center by phone, email or letter expressing dissatisfaction with how the transmission shifts and request that Buick re-program the transmission shift pattern to eliminate this drivability problem.

I'm glad they have been referred the Buick Customer Assistance. Otherwise they might be hunting me down to take my Dynaflow driven, 401 cubic inch, 325 Horsepower, 4 Barrel carbureted, dual exhaust, 4,000 pound, separate body and frame 1960 Electra. We eased from a parking spot on Main Street last weekend and were gliding up the street hardly nudging 1800 RPM through the whole process. Then I noticed a little whistle and saw the vent widow on my side was cracked open a bit.

Always remember my Grandma O'Brien when you buy a car. In my lifetime she had owned a 1949 Roadmaster, 1954 Roadmaster, and a 1962 Invicta. Around 1972 my uncle brought a '60's Skylark out for her to try. She looked at him with a regal and authoritative look when she said "That is not a Buick."

We call it the deliverable in my line of work.

Bernie

Oh, I almost forgot. In 1972 Grandma O'brien ended up buying a '68 Wildcat 2-dr hardtop.

Bernie

First thought is . . . 6000rpm for that engine is just fine, unlike prior pushrod engines.

Second thought is . . . what are you considering "part throttle"?

Third thought is . . . the computer is reading the change in position of the throttle, AND how fast it's made, to activate the stepper motor to open the throttle valve off-idle. I highly suspect that if you'll get the car in a quite place (traffic-wise), stop, and then "pat" the throttle, you'll discover "Garage mode", which is a much less sensitive to throttle input situation. If you're trying to back up or ease forward up an incline, you might find that if you very slowly open the throttle, it takes much more throttle movement for the car to respond. BUT if you push it past that point, it'll act "normal". In backing up an incline, I have to pat the throttle lightly a few times to get the vehicle to start moving. "Garage Mode" was first mentioned with the then-new 2004 Pontiac GrandPrix and is even on pickup trucks and vans in the current model year. If you move the throttle pedal normally, you'll never know it's there, until you need it.

Fourth thought is . . . the transmission control program is a part of the emissions control software for the vehicle. The same software program that was used to certify the vehicle for emissions compliance AND fuel economy ratings. Therefore, it's NOT like they can re-program things if they might adversely affect fuel economy or emissions . . . "at a whim" . . . unless the program upgrade does not adversely affect existing emissions and fuel economy compliance. Just as they must advocate that you use "SN" 5W-30 motor oil as that particular viscosity and service rating is what they used to do the same emissions and fuel economy certifications.

Fifth thought is . . . when you initially test-drove the vehicle (or a similar one), did it act in the manner you described?

Sixth thought is . . . put the Driver Info Center into "Instant Fuel Economy" and use that to learn how to drive the car to get the best fuel economy. You might well notice that staying in "a lower gear" at higher road speeds AND very little throttle input is more economical than driving it in a higher gear at lower engine rpm, but needing more throttle (and fuel) to do the same thing.

Seventh thought is . . . Buick is not the only GM carline using that engine and transaxle combination. With all due respect, if the problem is as widespread as represented, then we'd be seeing a huge increase in our service drive traffic on this issue. But I will check to see if our service advisors have become aware of this situation. I have rented several cars with the 6-spd automatic fwd transaxle. The first one was a new Malibu LTZ with the 3.6L V-6 . . . what I didn't like concerned how that when I was trying to "ease by" slower traffic, throttle input was slowly added until it felt the need to downshift 2 gears and fly by the traffic . . . later vehicles didn't display that situation. I rented a 2013 Impala a little while back . . . 3.6L DI V-6 and the 6-speed . . . everything was smooooth and normal, as expected.

Just some thoughts,

NTX5467

Thank you guys for the quick response. It sure is gratifying to know my investment is well spent on quality goods.

Yes, the demo I drove did the same thing. It too was very low mileage and I dismissed it as a quirk. Why do you say this engine can take 6000rpm? And why is there no red line on the tach? I have a feeling there is some engineering here that I was not aware of. I've been holding the speed down to 60mph, and increasing to 70 for short spurts. Mileage is still under 500miles. Expect to cross that barrier today. Then plan on 70mph, but not steady up to 1,000 miles. What is it about the engineering that loosens up the rpm limit?

Thanks again for the explanation, it sure helps to have a little additional engineering information when you are breaking in a car that cost as much as a house in the 1970's.

I tried out a LaCrosse and found the transmission held gears for a lot longer than I thought it should. It was one of the things I didn't like about the car. I also drove a new Fusion and Escape and they both did the same thing. The 5 speed auto in my Mariner shifts quickly, quietly and smoothly about 22-2500 RPM under "normal" acceleration. Both the Fusion and the Escape didn't shift until they were over 3000 RPM. I felt like I was driving a race car. I just bought a new Taurus which also has a 6 speed auto and it shifts more "normally" to me. Seems to me with the engine screaming before it shifts, it would use a lot more gas.

One reason that 6000rpm for that engine is fine is that the horsepower peak is at 6300rpm. Peak torque is about 5300rpm. Difference in that situation and the earlier pushrod engines is that with the dry intake manifolds (port or direct fuel injection results in the intake manifold only handling air rather than a fuel/air mix as with carbs or throttle body FI) they can tune for a very broad torque curve with a final "hump" where peak torque is, at higher rpm.

I understand your orientation on break-in miles, but also consider that by the time the engine gets to the assembly plant, it's already got about 30 minutes of run time on it after assembly. The key thing about "break-in" is getting the larger metal castings (block, cyl head) to do their final curing activities with many hot/cold cycles. But I also understand and somewhat believe in (pushrod motors particularly and less so with the OHC motors), the need to vary the rpm and loadings on the bearings and pistons. BUT also consider that almost all of the modern OEM pistons are "coated" on the skirt areas that such things are really not needed as they used to be. Plus, with normal driving being what it is, there will be enough on-throttle/off-throttle events to vary the speed and vacuum levels without making a special effort to do so.

In the company vehicle I'm now driving at work (G3500 Chevy box van, 6.0L V-8, 6L90E trans), I did the variable speed/loading orientation for a while, as a conscious effort. With our terrain and traffic patterns, I finally decided to set the cruise at normal highway speeds and let the hills and such happen as the cruise control would vary the throttle settings accordingly. I also have run it with the GM Oil Life Monitor system dictating when to do oil changes. With my high percentage of highway miles, combined witih modern motor oils, I usually had it done at 10K miles (90% of oil life). Once, at the end of the year, I ran it to 15K . . . after I checked the oil level after it sat overnight when it had 10K on it, and the oil level was at the "Full" mark. Now, it's got 165K on it and still uses no oil. With the particular gearing and tire size, 70mph is 1700rpm in 6th and 2100rpm in 5th, BOTH of which are OD ratios in that trans.

On the www.gmpowertrain.com website, it notes that the same engine in the LaCrosse is also in the current Impala. I drove an Impala for a weekend trip about a month ago. There was nothing unusual in how and when it shifted, nor its smoooothness. I might add that it got great fuel economy, enough to put MANY import brands to complete shame, even with their 4cyls! Interestingly, the new Chrysler Pentastar 3.6L V-6 is in that same league, too, but just a tad under what the Impala did.

As for "hurting the motor"? The current electronics will generally NOT let that happen. If, for example, you put it in Park or Neutral and fully open the throttle, somewhere about 4000rpm, a rev limiter will kick in (I saw one of our techs do that one night, but I don't recommend YOU do that . . . just makes me cringe). And it's been that way since the later 1980s, I believe. There are also overrides for excessive heat and such, too, I believe . . . NOT to forget the many "!!!" messages that can happen in the Driver Information Center. And, of course, the speed limiter for the car which usually happens at about 100mph.

In the case of the speed limiter function, on the prior trucks we had, the speed limited was like a fuel shut-off. When the particular speed was reached, it was like you turned the ignition off. Back off 1mph or so and things came back to life. On the current truck, it's like they modulate it with the electronic throttle actuator software, it just won't go any faster once it reaches the pre-set speed -- certainly a different feel.

I'll do some more diggin'

NTX5467

I asked our shop foreman about that situation, this afternoon, and he had seen no bulletins or such on it. As we have Buicks and Chevys too, I would think that if it was that prevalent, we'd be seeing it, with all due respect.

With the rwd 6-speed, IF you put the gear selector in "M", you can do 2nd gear starts if you use the "+/-" function for the manual shift operation. Have you tried that? Just curious. Also, if your in the "normal" accelerate from a dead stop mode, with the engine headed toward 5K and its first shift, what happens if you lift off of the throttle, in "D"? Does it immediately slow down as if it was in manual "1" or will it then upshift, as automatics normally would?

Thanks for the reply and research!

I guess it is a natural reflex from driving the early Hydra-Matics of the 40's. When the shift hangs up I naturally lift my foot which lets it shift to the next gear. Using the M setting all shifts can be controlled with the "stick".

Speedo now showing just over 500 miles and a very light throttle permits proper shifting, But get a little anxious and nudge her a bit and you are in for a race car shift.

Mileage so far has approached 31.3 mpg, not bad.

Bump

Any comments from Buick factory personnel?

I rented a LaCrosse a few weeks ago for a trip and found the same behavior, which I assume is working properly. It's kind of unusual for those of us used to low RPM shifts and big torque, but with these cars, the low-end torque is kind of soft and this masks it somewhat. If you don't watch the tach, you don't really notice it since the car's so danged quiet, but there's a subtle feel to the car when you know it's happening. They've done a good job of hiding it, but there's just no getting around the fact that this is a very porky car with a V6 that's low on bottom-end torque. It's like in the dark days of the early 1980s when the cars had no horsepower and were tuned with really aggressive throttles to make them seem more powerful than they were.

Heavy car, low torque (get it spinning, though, and wow, it moves!), and a transmission with a lot of gears will give you this feeling. I think it's working as intended.

In 2004, I ended up with a Honda Accord DX sedan in Ohio . . . a rental car to attend a car event up there. 4 cyl and automatic trans. Below 3000rpm, no real torque . . . above that, power.

I'd seen in CAR AND DRIVER road tests that Hondas had pretty good acceleration, for their engine size. I discovered why . . . a DEEP low gear gets things moving. Then the rpms are high enough to keep things going in the higher gears, or at least 2nd gear in the 4spd/OD automatic. But the kicker was when I was on the Interstate, with the cruise set at 60mph. I used the "+/-" cruise buttons to increase the speed about 2mph to get around a slower car I was slowly gaining on. 2mph would make for a decent passing maneuver, so I punched the "+" button once. What I THEN noticed was, the trans downshifted out of OD into Direct and the tach went from 2000rpm to 3000rpm until the new speed was reached, then it settled back down to what it normally would be in OD. If the trans hadn't been very smoooooth shifting and the engine very quiet, the additional activity would not normally have been noticed, especially with some radio action.

When driving around in the Upper Arlington area of Columbus, with narrower streets and smaller intersections, if you used enough throttle to get things moving as you turned the corner, by the time you got the turn completed the engine was at 3000rpm in 1st and "headed somewhere". Tolerating the lower-rpm "weakness" was the best way to drive it. There were things that CAR AND DRIVER never mentioned in their glowing reviews of Honda Accords!

With the newer electronic-controlled throttles and automatic transmissions, "the nudge factor" is something that needs to be found and either utilized or stayed away from. Just like the trans/powertrain behaviour I discovered in the Malibu LTZ 3.6L sedan I rented when that car was new. Trying to execute an easy "get around" pass on the freeway, the first (famous) r_h amount of throttle didn't do anything. The next r_h didn't, either, but the THIRD r_h amount caused it to downshift 2 gears, the engine rpm to hit 3000rpm, and "Away we went!", as if I'd really punched the throttle . . . when I didn't. Key thing is that when certain parameters are met, the powertrain controller perceives the driver is wanting to go somewhere, so it obliges as best it can.

NOW, the secret's out!

Enjoy!

NTX5467

But my 2008 Lucerne with the famous Buick 3.8 behaved like a lady should, and never over stepped the proper rpm's that a lady puts out. Now all of a sudden I have a 3.7 that is a weak sister that needs gears to perform. Boy, that sure is forward thinking.

Thanks folks for all your information, just wish someone could snap their fingers and make it behave like my Lucerne!

I had a 1995 3.8 Riviera for a short time and I heard that platform evolved into the Lucerne. It was a great car to drive. I may buy another or a Lucerne someday.

I had an Enclave for a company car a couple of years ago. It had a 3.6 with a 6 speed. I used to come home absolutely livid from driving that car. I have been driving Buicks all my life and expect torque at a nudge of my foot. That car was a dog on the road. I could drive to Syracuse on the NYS Thruway and it was fine at a constant 70. I have this psychological quirk where I can't drive straight home the way I went. So I would take the old two lane Rt. 20 across the rolling hills of the Fingerlakes. It was a killer for that low performance car. You couldn't keep the power steady. It would dog out on the inclines and force you to push the pedal harder to downshift to find the torque band. I kept wishing they had thrown in a 5.3 like my Silverado has, even stuffing it in sideways would have improved the 5,000 pound car.

It was like two engineers and a senator decided on the drive-train. "Well, we don't need much of an engine if we put in lots of gears." and then the senator pops up and says "Yeah, did you know a guy can jack a railroad car around with his foot?" I guess the engineer jumped up and said "wow! Let's try this." And someone whispered "You couda had a V8."

Last year I needed a car I could jump in and cross the state on a whim. I bought the best 1994 Impala SS I could find. I come home smiling every time. I wonder if the new owner of that Enclave has figured out those chips on the steering wheel are teeth marks. "Damn the high RPM HP, full torque ahead!"

Bernie

I believe the earlier last-gen Riv/Aurora platform just went away. The Lucerne platform is the same as the last-gen Cadillac DTS AND can even be had with a NorthStar V-8, in the CXS model (which can get all kinds of other neat stuff in the mix, as I recall).

One thing to remember about the GM 6-speed transaxle/transmission is that the top TWO gears are overdrive gears. 4th gear is NOT 1.00, either, but a little lower, like 1.11. Plus low gear is about 4.50. To me, taking out 6th gear and the 1st gear ratio would make a pretty nice gear spread 4-speed OD automatic. BUT, the deep low gear "has better launch characteristics", as they say. It also helps with the lower torque engines we now have. To me, the worst thing about that deep low gear is that the 1-2 shift is so highly "torque-managed" (translate = wimpy, rather than crisp). And, with electronic throttle control, if you slam the throttle open from idle, the software buffers that to decrease emissions. Generally, not a good feeling if you're used to "performance"!

I haven't driven a new 8-speed Chrysler/ZF automatic yet. I remember when "TOP GEAR" (Euro) did a race track test of a Lexus with one, they didn't like it. Obviously, it was not really good in that setting! TOO many gear choices? But, once you get out of 1st gear on the Chry/ZF unit, the gear spreads are much closer, which ought to make for some neat sounding HEMI sounds at WOT, as it hits all of the gears! And these closer gear spreads are what helps keep less throttle in the motor for a given road speed, hence better fuel economy.

BUT, I still like the feel of a fine-shifting GM THM400, THM350, or Chrysler TorqueFlite, or Ford C-6 3-speed automatic. Just feels RIGHT, but that's what I grew up with. Modern needs . . . need different stuff to get there.

Also, each of the new automatics have manual shift capabilities. In many cases, you can keep the top-obtainable gear to be one gear down from the max-OD "top gear", just as we used to put the three-speed automatics in "2" for mountain driving, back then.

The part I get tickled at is those that believe in "2nd gear start" capabilities. In the old Ford Cruise-O-Matic (BW trans), 2nd (D-2) gear start meant 1.46 gear ratio. In the GM 4L80E (THM400 with OD, electronic controls), 2nd gear is still 1.48. But in the new GM 6L80-90E 6-speed, 2nd gear is about 2.5, very close to the old THM400's low gear of 2.48. All it takes to do the 2nd gear start in the 4L80E, is to put the shifter in "2". On the newer 6-speed, you have to put the shifter in "M" and then use the "+" button to make the starting gear to be 2nd gear. Just have to know how to finesse the equipment.

Careful with those "nudges" . . . you might get more than you 'spected!

Enjoy!

NTX5467

Since puting out this notice, I've been told that these trannies have a brain, and they store information how you drive, and adjust the shifting accordingly.. So far that seems to be true, standard start from a light shows a 4,000 rpm, not 6,000.

It's lookin' much better. Thanks to all for their comments!!

You'd be surprised at how much information GM's on-board powertrain "computers" store these days! For example, if somebody puts a new program for engine controls in there, but removes it, that's in there too. On the plus side, it also will note if any GM powertrain "flash" upgrades are done and when, too.

With that "adaptive learning" and memory capaciy, it knows how many "nudges" you've given it, hehe.

Take care,

NTX5467