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Susupension Upgrade for 48 Roadmaster


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I have a 48 Roadmaster which is still original, but I would like to make it more driveable. It wanders all over the road and does not react well to the broken pavement which is everywhere in Detroit. I'm sure rebuilding the existing front suspension would help, but I doubt I would be really happy with the results so I would rather put the money toward some upgrades. I am leaning toward a whole new front suspension, and I would like to know what others here have done. Would a GM B body front suspension fit reasonably well (as in the 90's Roadmaster)?

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I am still open to the idea of rebuilding what I've got if I thought it would have acceptable handling when I'm done. That would be a big investment if I still end up with a car I can't keep in one lane. This car was built way before my time so have no idea how it would have handled when it was new. My dad said it always handled pretty badly, but then again it was 15 years old when he got it so it wasn't exactly new even back then. To anyone who thinks I should keep it stock and has a stock Buick of this vintage themselves, I say take me for a ride in yours and convince me how nice it drives!

Jason

Edited by Roadmaster 48 (see edit history)
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There is not a whole lot of difference in the parts and design that make up my '60 Electra with new 8.20 X 15 Firestone's as well. I had a '60 Invicta in 1966 when I was 17 also. I remember pegging the speedometer many times on the first one and being a little rough on it; to the tune of a 60 MPH doughnut one night.

My car drives fine and if you get near Rochester New York I would let you try it.

What you should really be trying out is modified cars that have had steering and suspension revised they can be the ones that handle like crap. I've seen street rods that have to back up twice to turn into a driveway because the Ackerman principle was wrong. Then there is the incorrect shock action, the wheels rubbing on the frame and fender wells. Then there are the old squashed out body mounts that even let the body shift around on the frame.

Best thing to do is tell Dad there is a nice guy in the forum who would help you find a special car you like (maybe the only '86 Park Ave convert in the country) and trade it to you for the old lump. Tell Dad he's old and not really too smart; even drives on biased tires. You will probably get a great deal.

That's my biased opinion.

Bernie

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Jason, more power to you if you want to update. But you might try cleaning and repairing the drag link first. You may be surprised in the improvement. And radial tires, which you almost certainly will install if you update, will help immensely. If you do not have a shop manual, I would encourage you to buy one. In the meantime, message me with an e-mail address and I will send the pages pertaining to the above mentioned repair from my '50 manual. I am sure there is little if any difference.

And WELCOME to this site. Did we mention we like BUICKS? And PICTURES?

Ben

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The current issue of "Street Rodder" magazine has some ads in it you might like. One is from a major brake vendor, whose ad pictures a late-'40s Buick in it. The other one is from one of the major street rod chassis/suspension vendors. They advertise "front stubs" and "rear stubs", which hold modern suspensions, which can become a part of your existing frame, I believe. Plus the mega-$$$$ Art Morrison complete chassis kits.

One of our chapter members placed his '48 (or so) Roadmaster Riviera on a '79 Cadillac chassis. He said he had very little issue with getting the body mounts to work, but then I suspect all that might entail would be relocating the mounting brackets on the frame to a position to match those on the body. THAT got him 4whl power disc brakes, rear sway bar, modern chassis, and factory Cadillac Boranni wire wheels. The only hint of anything changed was the rear sway bar and the wire wheels, until you raise the hood. He also added the requisite GM tilt steering column. Many who use those later GM columns will shave the ignition key cylinder and use the instrument panel one already in the car. Otherwise, the wiring harness color codes for the column might match those of the vehicle.

Generally, I believe that the closer you stay to factory OEM and OEM-spec items, the better things will be in the long run. Especially for later owners of the vehicle. Much better for them to go to an auto supply to get parts than to a specialty street rod vendor, to me, with all due respects.

I suspect that if you do a quality rebuild of the front suspension, add some heavier-duty shocks, new tires, and adjust the steering gearbox, you might find that those thoughts of your youth might return . . . how the earlier cars drover BACK THEN. Now, if you're wanting it to handle like a model year 2000 Regal GS, then the aftermarket route might get you there, better.

Just getting new rubber in the suspension will make a huge difference. Once that rubber gets old and takes a set, its resilience is pretty much gone. Not to forget the ability to get a good wheel alignment done.

I believe that earlier suspension has king pins in it, rather than ball joints? This is another wear point in the front suspensions of the earlier vehicles.

Also, don't forget to get the REAR suspension bushings and such upgraded/changed too! Especially the lateral locatioin devices!

Just some thoughts,

NTX5467

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Thanks for the input everyone. For the 'performanc modified' forum, it seems like most really prefer to keep things stock! This car has been in the family since 1963 and my Dad would disown me if I ever sold it, not that I want to. I want to leave the appearance completely stock, because I don't think it's possible to improve it. It's just a gorgeous design inside and out. That would include the steering wheel and column which may limit what I can do with the steering. I also want to keep the straight 8. I'm not looking to make it handle like a performance car or even a modern car, I just want to be able to safely keep up with traffic and say goodbye to the white knuckle experience trying to keep it in one lane as it bounces all over the road. I am ok sticking with drum brakes, but I do really want to add power steering. I think in 52 the Roadmaster had power steering and a straight eight, but I don't know if the converting it would just be a matter of bolting on parts. I believe the tires are radials, but I don't think the suspension has ever been touched. It looks like every bushing is completely original and completely shot. I'm sure the shocks should be replaced as well, but I'm not sure about the springs. Do the springs in these cars typically fatigue over time?

I found this summary of the factory suspension on these cars which is what made me want to modernize it, along with a friend of mind who has built a few street machines.

"Key shortcomings of the original suspension These cars actually drive reasonably well, and this basic suspension technology was a mainstay for 50 years. However, it does have certain shortcomings:

  • These cars came with zero to 1/2 degree of negative caster. When they were originally engineered, this was a reasonable setup. Negative caster makes the car easier to turn, and gives greater control in muddy ruts and other bad road conditions that were prevalent in the 1940s and 1950s. However, modern roads and increased speed limits favor positive caster, as it allows the car to stay centered and stable at today's highway speeds. High positive caster became more common as power steering became common. Conversely, manual steering is fine at higher speeds, but requires greater effort in low speed situations, especially parking lots. Manual steering works best at about 1-½ to 2 degrees of caster, which is a compromise between high speed stability and slow speed turning effort.

  • Due to the up and down-only rotation of the control arms, and cross-rotation of the king pins, any attempt to add more caster is fraught with problems. Anti-dive geometry is impossible in this setup.

  • On the pre-1950s models, the lever action shocks also present problems. They're hard to find, expensive (about $200 each plus $100 core charge if yours aren't rebuildable), and even in perfect working order, they have their shortcomings. The shocks are basically only good for a stock-only application. Raising or lowering the vehicle puts them out of their designed operating range. Increasing or decreasing weight with engine and transmission swaps alters their effectiveness.

  • The hubs/drums run on ball bearings. While reasonably durable if properly maintained, tapered roller bearings are generally thought to be stronger, more stable, and better able to withstand continuous high-speed driving. Ball bearings are now hard to find and cost about $200 for the full set. By comparison, a full set of tapered bearings will run about $25."

I can't really speak to the accuracy of this info, but the person definitely knows more than me. Besides I found it on the internet so it must be true ;)

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Roadmaster,

One solution would be to leave Detroit and move to Colorado, where the roads are very smooth...........

Or you could do what I did to make my '40 LTD drive a bit better.

1. Replace all 4 tie rod ends

2. Tighten up the drag link

3. Adjust the steering sector. Mine had 2 adjustments, not just the "high point".

4. Get a good alignment job.

5. Run your bias ply tires @ the max recommended pressure.

Just my $ .02

Mike in Colorado

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By the way can anyone see my pictures? I added a profile pic and a few pictures to the gallery, but they don't appear to be showing up. Here is a picture in any case.

Jason

[ATTACH=CONFIG]151889[/ATTACH]

YOU DIDN'T SAY IT IS A CONVERT! Beautiful. Jason, modifying the front suspension is not for the faint of heart, nor cheap. And I for one am not against that move. Have thought the same deal. But redoing the original is CHEAPER. You are correct that the '52 Roadmaster p/s can be installed. IF it can be found. Others on here have done that.

My '50 had 96,000 miles on it.The only thing I had to replace were the shocks at around $150.00 each. I had them rebuilt at Five Points in CA. Springs are probably ok. There is a procedure in the shop manual for measuring the ride height. Mine was right in the middle of the specs. I imagine yours will be too. Kinkpins were good. All bushings, which are all steel, were also. I,ll bet Dad kept the old Gal lubed well. As Mike did, I made the steering box adjustments and the drag link adjustments. Perfect? No, but not bad.

Think about that. But if you still want to update, go for it and please keep us informed.

Ben

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Great looking car!!

The quoted information is pretty correct. Negative caster makes the steering easier and positive caster puts more "road feel" into it, plus stronger self-centering action after a turn. Even up into the middle 1960s, some cars with manual steering still had negative caster settings and power steering went just a little positive.

Key thing with the non-power steering vehicles from back then, which might take a little finesse to do now, is to ensure that the car is barely moving as you try to turn the steering wheel in parking maneuvers. That helps. Certainly, if you try to do it like a modern power steering car, turn the wheel with the car not moving, you'll probably discover just how flimsh the older steering wheels were.

After seeing the car, rebuild it "to spec" and then add some finesse and tricks (as in the slickest synthetic chassis grease you can find for the steering system).

Please keep us posted!

Enjoy!

NTX5467

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Thanks for the input everyone. The more I think about it I think it's a good idea to try to restore the original suspension first. Based on input from here I think that may ride and handle well enough even on the tortured roads of metro Detroit. I can always modify the suspension later if I still want to. I wish moving to somewhere with real roads was an option, but it may take a few years to talk the wife into that. Here is the old 48 on the infamous Woodward Ave. mentioned above.

post-87842-143139153989_thumb.jpg

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Buicks, being "Doctors' Cars", back when doctors made housecalls, even out in the countryside, that other than being "a heavier car" (which "held the road better") which was very reliable, the other major attribute would be a more comfortable ride on roads that might make your current MI roads look like a modern superhighway, by comparison. Plus, if the doctor's car was needed to transport a patient into the city, the smoooth ride and size were definite pluses! Of course, with your Buick's suspension refurb'd to OEM specs, that would make the "highway ride" more akin to riding on air.

Enjoy!

NTX5467

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Here are my thoughts. Y'all know I drive my cars all over the US. My 55 Special has a perfectly rebuilt original front end. I run bias ply tires on it, and I can let go of the wheel when passing trucks. I imagine that the 49 has a similar front suspension. Rebuilding it (all new parts: idler arm, tie rod ends, bushings and rubber parts) as well as adjusting the front drag link and steering box will help.

However, my worn king pins and unchecked front end parts in my 55 wagon are made up for with radial tires. It's not that I don't want to rebuild the front end, but I can't afford it right now. If I had my way and a bucket of money, I'd stick airbags at all four corners (me=hot rodder) and dropped spindles with disc brakes, with dual reservoir master cylinder....BUT, I don't have the coin to proceed with that plan currently. Frankly, it all depends on what you want out of the car. I am a lucky son of a gun, in that I have a bone stock car, and a pseudo-modified one to play with. You need to make the call. If you upgrade the suspension, why would you keep four drums and single MC? Jump head first if you're gonna do it...

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Absolutely gorgeous car, a classic!!!!!!!! What do you think about it Ben. ;)

I'm going to suggest something a little less drastic than replacing the entire front suspension and more in line with a front end partial rebuild with one additional suggestion. You may want to consider swapping out the upper A-arms to a later year set up IE 1954-56 thus loosing those problematic lever action shocks. If you buy and use a 1956 set up it MAY be possible to use the steering knuckle support that allowed the king pin to incline at 7 degrees and improved handling over the 54-55's. (I am not sure this will interchange with pre 54's though.

Here on one of my favorite sites is an article about such a swap. Buick Eight Fireball - Part 11 - Deleteing Lever Action Shocks/Upper A-arm Changes

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  • 1 year later...

Looks like this thread was just a little ahead of some really good info. I've bought a few back issues of Rod & Custom recently. In the November 2012 issue, there is a modification project on a '50 Olds - which looks pretty much exactly like the Buick from underneath!

Some KEY criteria for the project presented there: Do not remove the body/bumpers and do not modify the FRAME. So no "stubs" for Mustang II type suspensions. This keeps the costs down.

What this means is, the work they did is reversible by bolting on the original stuff, should you ever want to.

The mod did a few KEY things:

1. Changed the caster angle to a more power-steering friendly geometry. True, this required adding power steering, but it made the car MUCH MORE SOLID at high speed.

2. Eliminated the lever shocks in the upper control arms. Went to much cheaper, easily available bolt-on tube shocks.

3. Went with a tapered-roller bearing type spindle, so cheaper, possibly more durable (and more readily available) modern tapered roller bearings would be used.

4. Brakes - using later-model spindles, they could bolt up a huge assortment of modern brakes - disk or drum, whatever you want. I have found at least 2 different disk brake conversion brackets / brake kits for older Buick spindles which uses off-the-shelf later model rotors, calipers, bearings, etc., but going to later model (Chevrolet) spindles opens up the whole world of brakes - from lower cost to how much stopping do you want...

What did they do / how did they do this:

1. Swapped upper control arms with a later-model aftermarket Chevy part. This eliminates the lever-action shocks. It also required brackets to be fabbed that bolt onto the Buick frame to adapt to the new control arms. Arms were about $100 per side.

2. Modified the existing Buick lower control arms to add ball-joint mounts. Some pretty serious high-precision fab work here, but they spell it out step-by-step. No going back on this one - if you wanted the original Buick stuff back on, you'd need a new set of lower control arms.

3. Changed out the steering for a modern rack & pinion power assisted unit. They list what car(s) have the rack they used.

4. Made up new links between the power steering and the spindles.

5. Modified existing late-model "arms" (don't recall the exact part name) that bolt onto the spindles & link the spindles to the steering links.

6. Added a late-model power steering pump.

7. Added some bolt-on shock towers for the tube shocks. These look like they came off another car. They don't say which. Though it wouldn't be hard to fab these or find an existing aftermarket bolt-on shock tower.

8. Key part here - later-model Chevy spindles. This allowed the use of a wide array of brakes. They didn't say what brakes they used on this car as that wasn't the point of the article.

I believe they kept:

The original springs & swaybar.

I'm keeping this in mind as a way to update my '51 if/when I decide the highway stability is scary. (Still in the get-it-running stage, so I haven't seen how it drives yet.) They point out it's not the "ideal" suspension - as in, it's not a full latest-greatest swap out, but it should be relatively low cost compared to frame stubs and all-new Mustang II type stuff, and it doesn't modify the frame other than some holes for the shock towers and maybe the steering rack support tube.

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That picture of Woodward Ave. that I posted wasn't one of the worst streets in Detroit. It was rough for my Silverado with 133" wheelbase, unequal length A arms, aircraft shocks, and rack & pinion steering with 255/70 X 17 tires. Cobbling up that Roadmaster front end ain't going to make it better than my truck design. Actually GM went to coil overs on the front and its not as good on the new ones. A new Silverado would be worse on those roads.

RM48 only posted 6 times. I hope he didn't tear the car all apart. That stuff has a way of getting out of hand. The a arms, then the steering box, well you gotta take the floorpan section out to do that. Well, take the carpet all the way out, better take the seat out for room. Maybe the front fenders should come off to make it easier to weld. Geez, the oil pan interfers with the steering rack. Well they make a lot of modified pans for the LS1. We'll just set the engine aside while we modify the suspension. Whoa, that torque tube went right up against the floor pan. We'll have to change the rear end anyway. Make some temporary brackets and we'll roll it around on a GM 10 bolt. Better get that old exhaust system out of there, won't need that. Holy crap! Those parts cost that much? And so the story goes on until the day after Thanksgiving. Put the turkey carcass out in the garage with the old Buick carcass to keep it cold.

Fifteen years from now; a lucky barn find- a partially disassembled Buick convert, parts or rat rod.

Twenty years from now in a space at Hershey a Buick club member is looking over a '48 Roadmaster pitman arm. He puts it back down on the tables and tells the vendor "Nah, the ball on mine is worn to an oval like that one. Thanks anyway."

I have quite an imagination, don't I? Not really; I was initiated into the hobby in the summer of 1959 and payed attention every day.

Bernie

Edited by 60FlatTop (see edit history)
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I thought a little more about this. I don't know how standardized the suspension parts are, but there could potentially be a kit here, especially if there's cross-over w/ Olds + multiple years using the same geometry. Someone with one of the parts books could tell - how many years do the front shocks / upper arms interchange on the early 50's 40-series, and same question with the lower arms. Other than that, the kit parts would be:

1. Upper arm mount brackets, 1 pair (might even be 2 of the same part, just turned around) + some mounting hardware.

2. Modified steering arms to bolt onto the spindles, 1 pair.

3. Modified lower control arms (maybe send yours to the supplier for modification, or on exchange w/ core charge).

4. Tube shock upper mounts, 1 pair + some mounting hardware.

5. Steering rack mount tubular bracket + some mounting hardware.

and looking back at the article -

6. Custom length tie rod center sections for Chevelle tie rod ends (connects steering rack to steering arms on spindles).

I think the above kit could be made available for under $1000, maybe even $700-800 or possibly less, if the parts are supplied in primer.

Then there would either be a list of off-the-shelf parts that the customer could source from NAPA, salvage, or however they wanted. I started listing it out and it got pretty extensive:

- Upper control arms (the artilce used '64-'72 Chevelle, aftermarket from Classic Performance Products).

- Chevelle tie rod ends.

- Steering rack.

- Power steering pump.

- Parts to join existing steering column to new steering rack.

- Power steering hoses.

- Power steering fluid reservoir (if not integral to pump).

- Pulleys for power steering drive.

- Belt for power steering pump.

- Bracket for power steering pump (if not part of pump assembly).

- Wheel bearings, inner & outer.

- Wheel spindle nuts.

- Wheel bearing cover/caps.

- Spindles

- Set of ball joints.

- Pair of tubular shocks & some mounting hardware.

Just ball-parking it, say all this is $1400-1500.

So there's the suspension, for about $2500, and if you're not a welder, not willing/able to pull the front sheet metal, engine, etc. to do a frame stub deal - the above stuff bolts in. Ok, there's still some expense with an alignment shop, but you've got that with hub-to-hub suspension kits anyway. Just for example, looking at one popular suspension kit, it's $1100 for the frame stub (well, their ad says "starting at", so I don't know how much the Buick ones are), then $2k-$3k for the suspension kit itself (that does include brakes, but not lines, master cylinder, etc.), and this incurs the labor that either you do or pay for to pull the car apart to the frame (and put it back together).

Then there's the "new brakes" aspect of it, which is a separate project for the builder to figure out what kind of brakes / brake system they want/need:

- Brake fluid reservoirs (assuming dual master, remote reservoirs)

- Master cylinder, dual, with power booster

- Caliper brackets

- Brake hard lines

- Brake hoses

- Calipers

- Rotors

- Brake pads

In the article, they stuck with the stock oil pan, did not pull the engine, and did not get into the floor or interior of the car. I thought it was interesting in that if they kitted this, it would be essentially a bolt-on job and other than maybe the modification of the steering column to join the new rack, could be done in a basic at-home garage. Even if the steering column mod had to be hired out, that's not a lot for a major suspension upgrade.

The other as-big-or-as-small-as-you-make-it aspect would be that the original wheels might need to change. I've seen hotrod steelies for $50-75 each, or sky's the limit.

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I thought a little more about this. I don't know how standardized the suspension parts are, but there could potentially be a kit here, especially if there's cross-over w/ Olds + multiple years using the same geometry. Someone with one of the parts books could tell - how many years do the front shocks / upper arms interchange on the early 50's 40-series, and same question with the lower arms. Other than that, the kit parts would be:

1. Upper arm mount brackets, 1 pair (might even be 2 of the same part, just turned around) + some mounting hardware.

2. Modified steering arms to bolt onto the spindles, 1 pair.

3. Modified lower control arms (maybe send yours to the supplier for modification, or on exchange w/ core charge).

4. Tube shock upper mounts, 1 pair + some mounting hardware.

5. Steering rack mount tubular bracket + some mounting hardware.

and looking back at the article -

6. Custom length tie rod center sections for Chevelle tie rod ends (connects steering rack to steering arms on spindles).

I think the above kit could be made available for under $1000, maybe even $700-800 or possibly less, if the parts are supplied in primer.

Then there would either be a list of off-the-shelf parts that the customer could source from NAPA, salvage, or however they wanted. I started listing it out and it got pretty extensive:

- Upper control arms (the artilce used '64-'72 Chevelle, aftermarket from Classic Performance Products).

- Chevelle tie rod ends.

- Steering rack.

- Power steering pump.

- Parts to join existing steering column to new steering rack.

- Power steering hoses.

- Power steering fluid reservoir (if not integral to pump).

- Pulleys for power steering drive.

- Belt for power steering pump.

- Bracket for power steering pump (if not part of pump assembly).

- Wheel bearings, inner & outer.

- Wheel spindle nuts.

- Wheel bearing cover/caps.

- Spindles

- Set of ball joints.

- Pair of tubular shocks & some mounting hardware.

Just ball-parking it, say all this is $1400-1500.

So there's the suspension, for about $2500, and if you're not a welder, not willing/able to pull the front sheet metal, engine, etc. to do a frame stub deal - the above stuff bolts in. Ok, there's still some expense with an alignment shop, but you've got that with hub-to-hub suspension kits anyway. Just for example, looking at one popular suspension kit, it's $1100 for the frame stub (well, their ad says "starting at", so I don't know how much the Buick ones are), then $2k-$3k for the suspension kit itself (that does include brakes, but not lines, master cylinder, etc.), and this incurs the labor that either you do or pay for to pull the car apart to the frame (and put it back together).

Then there's the "new brakes" aspect of it, which is a separate project for the builder to figure out what kind of brakes / brake system they want/need:

- Brake fluid reservoirs (assuming dual master, remote reservoirs)

- Master cylinder, dual, with power booster

- Caliper brackets

- Brake hard lines

- Brake hoses

- Calipers

- Rotors

- Brake pads

In the article, they stuck with the stock oil pan, did not pull the engine, and did not get into the floor or interior of the car. I thought it was interesting in that if they kitted this, it would be essentially a bolt-on job and other than maybe the modification of the steering column to join the new rack, could be done in a basic at-home garage. Even if the steering column mod had to be hired out, that's not a lot for a major suspension upgrade.

The other as-big-or-as-small-as-you-make-it aspect would be that the original wheels might need to change. I've seen hotrod steelies for $50-75 each, or sky's the limit.

I thought a little more about this.

Tha's a lot of "a little" if you ask me. I need to go back and read this a couple times to even half way understand it. I love posts like this, thanks Eric!!!

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I cheated. In the 1990's I specialized in servicing collector cars. I did not do restoration work. I only serviced original and restored cars, most in a high level show condition. My focus was on making them steer, start, and stop; which many, even the prettiest restored ones would not do well. I had about 30 regular's.

Three original cars stand out in my memory as really great drivers. They were a 1949 Cadillac convertible, a 1950 Buick Super 2 door hardtop, and a 1931 Pierce-Arrow convertible coupe. I always test drove the cars for thoroughness of the work and reliability. Lots of hot days I would just run to the other end of town, shut off the car, restart it in 5 minutes , and drive home. The was a section of Main St. at the base of the canal hill where there was a spring under the road. It kept the road in rough condition and was always broken up. Many cars would bounce and jerk around on that section and meeting the stereotype of old car handling perception. The three I mentioned, as well as my '60 Electra and '64 Riviera took it in stride. And handled well on the road. They didn't drive like the new Subaru that takes people's daughters to school; and it shouldn't. They did handle like the premium or luxury car they were when they were new.

I have driven the modified ones as well. There are a couple of terms that are related to just the steering arms mentioned above; Ackerman principle and toe out on turns, that have a dramatic affect on handling. They surface when you see the modified car back up twice to make a 90 degree turn into a driveway. Or when one front wheel scuffs sideways when they have to drive on gravel. That's just two engineering principles and then you can get into the wisdom of modifying and welding suspension parts. and I LIKE modified cars.

If I was into old Chevies or Fords I would probably have one. Owning a Buick, all you have to do is fix them right.

Bernie

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Some information on a modification (as referenced in post 7) here:- http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/wiki/index.ph%20p?title=1937-1957_Buick_Oldsmobile_Pontiac_suspension_upgrade

Edited by 1939_buick (see edit history)
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In all this, I ran across Jamco suspension. For the multiple threads on here asking about disk brake conversions, they appear to have kitted-up from maybe the Scarebird brackets (or maybe they just make their own) plus all the parts that Scarebird provides a parts list for. The price appears reasonable at $734.95 - this includes the caliper brackets, spindle adapters (for tapered roller bearings), the bearings, caps, calipers, pads, lines, line retention clips, fasteners - basically all the parts needed back to the hard lines on the frame. This is lower than I was pricing out for the Scarebird bracket set plus all the parts separately from a local auto parts store.

The other Jamco product that I just asked them more about is a set of tubular upper & lower arms with ball joints for the '49-'50 Ford. This is essentially the product I was outlining the concept for in the previous postings. Though the Jamco product is put together in a different way as far as what the kit includes for the price. Their package INCLUDES a disk brake conversion with the arm/spring/shock/spindle/balljoint kit. It does NOT include steering.

So the builder would be left figuring out the steering rack, links from rack to spindles, and maybe the arms on the spindles. The Jamco website doesn't say what spindles they use, or what steering arms on the spindles are needed (or provided). All that is $2300, so if $735 of that is the brakes, that's $1565 for the suspension less steering. The spindles put the car 1" lower than stock, and you can specify how much more lowering you want in the springs you select. They don't have a kit like this for Buicks yet. If this sounds like something you might want for a lever-shock Buick, send them an email and ask (info at jamcosuspension dot com).

To Bernie's points - sure, if you go off trying to invent all this stuff yourself, there's a bunch of places where setbacks can occur. That's why, if I do decide to make a change, I would want the support of one of these large aftermarket companies that have an interest in and have the resources for getting it right. As you point out - all-new tubular control arms from a major manufacturer are likely to be better than chopping the outer ends off old arms and rebuilding them for ball joints.

I ran across a guy who was going through this (front suspension / steering mods) on a '50 Olds at a car show this weekend. He's spent a chunk of money to get where he's got (dropped spindles, chopped springs, torched/rebent steering links), and he was talking about spending a bunch more to un-do that and do something else (frame stub & new from there). I think he said the steering link mod killed the turning radius. Yet another reason I would want "a plan" from an aftermarket company - so you can have a good idea what it's going to cost before getting started, and to avoid going down a path only to spend more to back up and go with something else.

To the various warnings in this thread - I believe in getting it going first as it's built. I'm not making any changes for a while, if ever. Just seeing what's out there.

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