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Identify Graham Truck


stakeside

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I am attempting to identify a "E" Series Graham truck with a 185 wheelbase. I believe it has a senior six since engine does not appear to be a victory or DA. Are there any picture of the side views of the senior engine and is the engine of head code 2252?

A number is cast on the top of head near the firewall GB A514-270.

143623d1340982341t-1928-dodge-brothers-senior-six-rear-graham-brothers-truck-086.jpg143624d1340982330t-1928-dodge-brothers-senior-six-rear-graham-brothers-truck-063.jpg143625d1340982328t-1928-dodge-brothers-senior-six-rear-1.jpg<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

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  • 6 months later...

Sherman,

did you ever find the answer to this ?

I noticed on Page T-9-C Plate 47 of the MPB shows a side view of the 6 that went in the following Models:

ED, JD, OD, TD, GE, HE, OE, RE, TE, 2 ton-150, 2 ton-165, 3 ton 135, 3 ton 165, and your 3 ton 185 . Engine code shows it as being a DB. Notice the "GE, HE and the TE" are 2252 code engines, don't know if that has any relevance to your situation though because those trucks are shorter wheelbases but those four trucks, the GE, HE, TE and 185 DB are all E series according to the MPB model code index. I'm sure you know these things but I'm just hoping we can get to the answer somehow.

Does your manifold have a cross mount carb on the other side ? Can you post pics of the other side of the engine by chance ?

Theres a 3 ton parts book on the main auction site but it doesn't say if it's for an F or an E series. Do a search for 1931 Dodge Truck to find it. You could contact the seller and ask if it's an E series and ask to see a side view maybe he's willing to give info, some guys don't mind sending a pic in the messaging tool. Theres also side views in other literature for auction, 1929 and 30 F series trucks that may lend clues, depending on what the other side of your engine looks like. You've probably tried all these things but I wanted to put it out there incase you haven't.

I'm very curious to know what you find out as I think it will help answer alot of questions many of us have.

Good luck

Dave

Edited by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)
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Sherman,

did you ever find the answer to this ?

I noticed on Page T-9-C Plate 47 of the MPB shows a side view of the 6 that went in the following Models:

ED, JD, OD, TD, GE, HE, OE, RE, TE, 2 ton-150, 2 ton-165, 3 ton 135, 3 ton 165, and your 3 ton 185 . Engine code shows it as being a DB. Notice the "GE, HE and the TE" are 2252 code engines, don't know if that has any relevance to your situation though because those trucks are shorter wheelbases but those four trucks, the GE, HE, TE and 185 DB are all E series according to the MPB model code index. I'm sure you know these things but I'm just hoping we can get to the answer somehow.

Does your manifold have a cross mount carb on the other side ? Can you post pics of the other side of the engine by chance ?

Theres a 3 ton parts book on the main auction site but it doesn't say if it's for an F or an E series. Do a search for 1931 Dodge Truck to find it. You could contact the seller and ask if it's an E series and ask to see a side view maybe he's willing to give info, some guys don't mind sending a pic in the messaging tool. Theres also side views in other literature for auction, 1929 and 30 F series trucks that may lend clues, depending on what the other side of your engine looks like. You've probably tried all these things but I wanted to put it out there incase you haven't.

I'm very curious to know what you find out as I think it will help answer alot of questions many of us have.

Good luck

Dave

The truck does not belong to me. I was attempting to identify it. I own a 1929 DB 3/4 ton.

I believe this to be a Senior 6 shown in Master Parts Book and was used in the larger trucks.

My engines are DA-6 model. The 1929 engine H79xxx uses the Stewart carb and the H88xxx has a. Stomberg U-2. The Stomberg has a cross mount adapter carb base.

What is your frame number? Is it a "E" series?

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The truck does not belong to me. I was attempting to identify it. I own a 1929 DB 3/4 ton.

I believe this to be a Senior 6 shown in Master Parts Book and was used in the larger trucks.

My engines are DA-6 model. The 1929 engine H79xxx uses the Stewart carb and the H88xxx has a. Stomberg U-2. The Stomberg has a cross mount adapter carb base.

What is your frame number? Is it a "E" series?

My frame number is 231751 and yes it is an E series. See avatar and album for other pics.

I'm trying to understand exactly what information your trying to find out for this truck on topic though.

I was also hoping we could figure out what model your other 3/4 ton is since we both have similar respective literature (from what I've read of some of your previous posts), although my concentration has been more geared towards parts for the Panel trucks I still would like to see if I can help you out in some way.

Dave

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My first purchased truck was "DE" model. I know this because I have a partial registration plate found on my toeboard. It was a screenside with badly damaged body parts. I have choosen to change to a closed cab with a flatbed stakeside.

The parts truck only has partial running gear, frame and firewall. I have no idea what it is was prior.

My original frame was badly damaged in a wreck many years ago. I would have liked to see the other car. The parts truck provided my frame. Interesting that my parts truck had the heavy duty cast iron 20" rims and heavy duty rear springs.

It may be that the last book shown may apply to my "DE" series. Could you do a page scan forward to me at sstake@surewest.net.

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What exactly are you wanting scanned ? I'll just post pics here but I need to know specifically what you are looking for.

You do realize that's more like a maintenence book ? Not many pics but they do show an overhead of the frame and running gear and the interior as your looking in thru the back window. Other than that I can't see what you'd be interested in.

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What exactly are you wanting scanned ? I'll just post pics here but I need to know specifically what you are looking for.

You do realize that's more like a maintenence book ? Not many pics but they do show an overhead of the frame and running gear and the interior as your looking in thru the back window. Other than that I can't see what you'd be interested in.

I wondering if my parts truck was a DA series truck because it was purchased new as a 1931. Since the radiator shell matches my original 1929 DE series it is different than yours. Your pictures show a smooth front face and mine has a raised rolled edge at radiator edge.

Does the manual show a dash board or radiator shell?

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What exactly are you wanting scanned ? I'll just post pics here but I need to know specifically what you are looking for.

You do realize that's more like a maintenence book ? Not many pics but they do show an overhead of the frame and running gear and the interior as your looking in thru the back window. Other than that I can't see what you'd be interested in.

I posted some photos on my profile album. You will see my hood emblem, a side view of my stewart carb, and a latest view of my DB.

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Yeah your radiator is definately different than mine. I'm guessing from my studies it has to do with that transition period when Chrysler took over. From what I understand just from memory is that radiator you have was also used on the 1928 Graham Brothers trucks, but you would know better than me. Is that what you found ?

I don't show Stewart carbs or fuel canisters to be original. Everything I have says that the Zenith or Carters were used and U2 Strombergs in some cases. Kingston was the fuel vac manufacturer.

These may be helpful. May have to load them one at a time because the files are big

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Thanks a lot.

Great picture interior of cab. It is the same as my DE model. It even shows the location of the registration plate.

My headlights on the early truck are the canister type used in 1927 or earlier. The parts truck has headlights with a raised bezel on the top of the rim and the Stomberg carb? I would assume they were using and interchanging when available during the transition years.

Bottom line in this case "it is what it is". That is Graham truck with a Dodge nameplate.

Be sure check my profile album. There is a picture of a Graham mode DE.

Thanks again in your assistance to solve a bit of a mystery.

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Thanks a lot.

Great picture interior of cab. It is the same as my DE model. It even shows the location of the registration plate.

My headlights on the early truck are the canister type used in 1927 or earlier. The parts truck has headlights with a raised bezel on the top of the rim and the Stomberg carb? I would assume they were using and interchanging when available during the transition years.

Bottom line in this case "it is what it is". That is Graham truck with a Dodge nameplate.

Be sure check my profile album. There is a picture of a Graham mode DE.

Thanks again in your assistance to solve a bit of a mystery.

Here is the picture of the Graham DE model.

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Yeah your welcome.

I enjoy doing it because I always learn something everytime I open these books, and it always leads to another positve line of questions for me. Glad it helped answer some questions you had. And your right, it is what it is in regards to correct parts for these things no matter the part. Every one of these models was so different it's hard to keep up with anything outside of my particular truck let alone the parts and numbers for anyone elses but I love looking for the information and doing the research. I volunteered to do work from my location here in Phoenix AZ for the WP Chrysler Museum in Detroit but there isn't any way it could work out, that's just to say how much I enjoy doing it so don't ever hesitate to ask for any help.

Sherm, I have a question about the truck on topic:

Did the prior information I gave above help in the search for the 185 wb truck on topic ? I'm very curious to know if we can find those answers for that truck.

Again, glad you found out some info on your truck. If you need more scans let me know. 76 pages total :D

Dave

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You've definately got the DE now that I understand it a little better now (not fully grasping it yet though) . I've had that photo you posted for about a year now, never knew it was a DE but it's helped answer other questions I had, and I guess it's still answering questions....

Love the progress you've made on your truck by the way, I've been checking in from time to time and your doing a very commendable job. Looks like you have the same exact engine I have, the rear exhaust manifold and crankcase vent hole along with the cross mount carb is a dead give away.

I'm still figuring out what parts to throw together.

I think I'll use the manifold off the seized motor I have that's out of the 1 1/2 ton donor and put it to another DA-6 that was running out of a 5 window Coupe, hopefully it all matches up size wise but if it don't I'll keep pluggin away till it does work even if I have to free up the old seized motor and rebuild it. The Zenith carb in my profile with the cross mount flange is correct for the 3/4 to 1 1/2 tons according to the MPB. Very rare recent find. Still looking for the correct air filter though but if I can't find the filter and vent tube I'll just fab somethin up for temp until I locate original parts, which could be years as most of us know.

Heres the running engine I purchased recently along with the seized motor showing the correct manifold I will attempt to use. Still rounding up parts and will be years before it comes together but I'm workin on it.

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Be carefull removing the heat control cover on your intake manifold. Mine was damaged. If you have any doubts don't attempt to remove it.

It is quite possible the chassis and cowl shown in my previous tread is used by your DA truck. Only the body construction is different.

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I believe the chassis are the same also, as you said only the body is different.

Thanks for the heads up by the way on the manifold. When I do pull the manifold off I think I'll soak it for a long time then ease into it.

Took the head off and I've let the pistons soak for the last month or so. The oil is creeping down into the lower crank, it's taking a while but at least I know the oil is penetrating and getting lower, so far I've used a quart total so I know it's creeping. Some have said to use kerosene, diesel fuel and other methods but I'm in no hurry and I don't want to do any more damage that may have already been done from when it locked up originally.

The good news is my cylinder walls seem to be very, very smooth. The pistons and valves all look good and in tact with no breaks or bad pitting or rust anywhere. Carbon build up on top of the valvles and pistons but the inards are pretty clean surprisingly. That truck engine will free up someday, I just don't want to rush the process or break any thing other than the bolts and heads of bolts, those can always be replaced fairly simply. And yes, I've broken plenty already even though I'm being very careful and making sure to soak with PB blaster for days at a time.

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Yeah your radiator is definately different than mine. I'm guessing from my studies it has to do with that transition period when Chrysler took over. From what I understand just from memory is that radiator you have was also used on the 1928 Graham Brothers trucks, but you would know better than me. Is that what you found ?

I don't show Stewart carbs or fuel canisters to be original. Everything I have says that the Zenith or Carters were used and U2 Strombergs in some cases. Kingston was the fuel vac manufacturer.

These may be helpful. May have to load them one at a time because the files are big

[ATTACH=CONFIG]174007[/ATTACH]

Could you scan the page showing the discriptions of the items numbered here. My dash is the same and I can find out where items belong.

I have a partial registration plate shown on the toeboard in your picture. This was in my screenside. Note: S 114439, model DE, 120 wheelbase. Thats all I can read. The shape matches the one in your dash picture. Do you have a registration plate for your truck? If so could you send me a scan? I would like to know what I am missing. Thanks.

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Lets do this.

I'll send this labelled the way I'm used to labelling things but I would recommend since your the owner of this particular vehicle you rename them and save them by Page # that way you can refer to it easily in the future. For example, make note of each scan by page number and just file it 120 E Series Page 1, 120 E Series page 2 and so on and do that as I send them. At least that's my recommendation but you do it how you would like. But at least try and keep them in some kind of succession as the pages will be scanned from time to time out of order. Make sense ?

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Edited by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)
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I know you may need this electrical diagram soon. Should be very helpful from what I can tell where your at in your project.

Let me know what you have for extra parts that your not going to use, I may have something you need and vise versa. I have some extra parts that were not original for the DA 124 but were for your 120

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I figure this will be some good meat for you to chew on for awhile. We'll fill in the blanks as we go. I don't mind scanning and I hope it's ok with everyone that I'm doing this. I just figure these books are so rare and the need is so great we should all be pulling our resources together in order to answer our questions collectively by passing this information onto each other at no charge.

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Edited by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)
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I figure this will be some good meat for you to chew on for awhile. We'll fill in the blanks as we go. I don't mind scanning and I hope it's ok with everyone that I'm doing this. I just figure these books are so rare and the need is so great we should all be pulling our resources together in order to answer our questions collectively by passing this information onto each other at no charge.

Thanks, You are right this a lot to look over.

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Nothing like documented evidence :D

I know you appreciate it and again, I don't mind doing it but eventually I would like to get some answers for the truck on topic at the beginning of this thread because the 2252 motor is intriguing.

But I'm in no rush, this is fun stuff looking into the 120 E series .:cool:...

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By the way,

I have no I.D. Plate of any kind for my DA-124. I do have an extra toe plate that was in 10x worse condition than yours. As I cleaned it and scrubbed it in an attempt to read the numbers it literally fell apart almost like dust in places and began to crack, but before it started giving way I could make out that it was to a DA-120 B which has puzzled me since. At that point I stopped in order to save the numbers I was told to put it in a ziplock bag in pieces because although the frame number is barely legible it may be of use to a DA-120 guy somewhere down the road and may even lend clues to someone like yourself.

My dash plate I.D. was just a blank. It was rivoted like from the factory would have been but when I cleaned past the surface rust there was only shiney metal, no numbers anywhere which as you can imagine was very disheartning. If they were stamped like the toeplates I would have been able to see them easily but it's just completely flat.

Since my truck came in pieces when I bought it, this has been a journey of puzzles. I had 2 toe boards that came with the parts and since I'm new at this I had no idea what I was even looking at truthfully. Didn't take me long to figure it out but that tells you how maticulous and tedeous of a process it's been in the last few months. I've literally spent months under the magnifying glass trying to read some of this and some of it cannot be hurried or you loose it completely if you scrub to hard , to abrasive or the wrong solution for cleaners. Kinda like archealogical work in a sense... fun stuff for someone who loves to learn and research.

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There are 4 places for data on my toe board plate: Upper left (frame number), upper rt. (model), lower left (illegible), and lower rt. (wheelbase).

You can see the plate in the interior view of the dashboard scan you sent. There appears to be 4 areas for information.

These plates are different then the passenger cars.

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Yes thats true and I believe the lower left one that isn't legable is suppose to be the "delivered" date but it was not stamped like the other sets of numbers, see photo for explanation. This was from a larger truck that I found and saved so I know how to reduplicate mine when I'm ready.

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Heres the only toe plate I had that came with all the mystery parts included in my purchase when I got my truck.

Can't quite make out the frame number in the middle photo on the left but as you can see on the right it says "B" then under that is "120 IN". I believe the frame number reads "E145751" but I'm not positive as it's very difficult to read.

Any idea what the B stood for or what the meaning was ? The only other 120"WB 3/4 ton I could find was the DET model E series with the Victory 6 probably produced in 1928 or 29 according to the MPB index.

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Edited by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)
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I'm sorry, I don't understand and I've looked for another post that shows what your speaking of. I understand that frame E 149xxx to be your donor frame.

Is that correct ?

If so, can you post a pic of that plate since it's more intact so I can see it ? Maybe I can help with the model designation somehow. If you have a macro setting on your camera that will really allow you to get even better clarity then even a magnifying glass at times. Just a suggestion.

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133 is the WB

According to this it's a DA-1-C I'm assuming the V on the end of the model DA V was a designation but I wouldn't know what. Everything says it's a 1 ton but I believe the owner who posted it claims it was a 1 1/2 ton if I remember correctly but I'm unclear what the rating class would of been myself but the books say 1 ton. Beautiful truck I found on the web, here are some photos of it. Same interior and instrument panel as my Panel

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Edited by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)
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