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36 P2 Roof seal???


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I'm replacing the fabric roof on my '36 P2 2door sedan. I've purchased a rubber seal from a gentleman who spent a fair amount of money having some made "exactly like original." Unfortunately after getting back to my car and pulling out the OEM seal, the replacement I purchased is nothing like it. I'm stuck. Can anyone offer some suggestions for a replacement seal? I can try and cut the seal to get a cross section picture if needed.

Thanks in advance.

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Steele Rubber used to have some rubber seal material they claimed was correct for early Chrysler products. Turns out that my '33 doesn't have a rubber seal, just "dum dum" so I can't say if it was correct or not.

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I'm assuming that the P2 has the same roof assy. as the Dodge. If it does the original roof seal is not available. It was actually a two part system. There was an 1 1/4 in wide preformed flat rubber seal that went between the roof and the body ledge that sealed the roof when bolted down. Then there was a rubber filler strip called"Wedge-tight" ( I have a sample) that filled the gap between the roof insert and the body. The only seal that I know of available today that is anything like the original is made and sold by Steve Langis( I think he is the guy selling the '36 hood hinge ends). I have some of this seal and while it is not exactly like the original it seems to work and look fine. It also seems to be made from a high silicone content rubber that does not take super glue well so I suggest sealing the cut end with black RTV silicone. Having been in the antique rubber parts business and have looked high and low for a source of the original type material but have found nothing. The wedge-tite was carried by Auveco products but was discontinued many yeras ago! I do believe that Steve's product will serve you well if you install it carefully and it will not require any additional caulking as seen on so many backyard roof repairs. Hope this helps--Jim The last no. I have for him is (978)-532-5793 give him a call ,He'll send a sample.

Edited by jpage (see edit history)
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Jim, thank you for the detailed reply. I happen to have Steve's very last seal here in my hands. Drove to his house to pick it up, even. He dug around until he found one which was too short for a 4 dr car but happened to be the same length as mine. It's a very different seal. I believe the answer is that the Dodge roof is metal and the Plymouth roof is still fabric as read in another thread on this forum. The picture attached shows Steve's seal (on left) and the original Plymouth seal. Is the wedge-tight at all similar to the Plymouth seal? Any chance you have an old part no? I have a few contacts that have lots of NOS "stuff" with no way to ID it. Of course if I find any it's not likely to be much good unless it's been locked in a Nitrogen filled vault but who knows.

Jack M, thanks for the link to Steele rubber. I was hoping it was for a specific page or product as I've been through their '36 Plymouth section as well as a couple years on either side with no luck. Any chance you've got a part number as I don't have enough experience with vehicles this old to know what else might fit.

Thanks,

Shannen

post-60404-143138943871_thumb.jpg

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Sorry I missed the part in your post that stated that you had a fabric roof. I wasn't sure if your's was. In your picture the piece on the right is the Wedge-Loc seal. It is not available. I'm afraid that you'll have a hard time trying to find something close. Durameter in this piece is important,too hard it will not go into place,too soft and it won't hold. This part hammers into a channel that holds the fabric in place. It is possible to have this made if you were so inclined ,but could be expensive. On extruded rubber parts the manufacture runs alot of test material through the dies until they hit on the right heat range for the material and the right speed . You pay for all that even if you can't use it. Then there are die costs and minimum runs. Unfortunatley I don't think there is enough of a market to warrant manufacture. Restoration Specialties in PA used to have some but it's now gone. They considered making it but as far as I know it's still a mute subject. You might check with them at 814-467-9842 East.to see if they might run some. It might be a while until you see it though! It would fit all the 1935-'36 Plymouths and Dodges and maybe Chryslers. Steve's part is made for the Dodges with the steel roof insert but like I said it works well but is not quite like original. If you were interested in making it I have a good sample of the Wedge-loc. Off hand, the only other idea I have is a round profile rubber close to the diameter of your original sample but it must be of the right durameter(firmness). I'll think on it. Keep me posted on your thoughts. Jim

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I figured I'd have the "Wedge-tight" part. I'll try calling Restoration Specialties to let them know I'm interested. Maybe it will help convince them to make more.

I spent about an hour looking at pages from companies marketing extruded rubber seals. Mainly I was looking for round or D shaped pieces that might work. I didn't have much luck as most of the online pages didn't have any cross sections to view. I do have a guy I can call who has piles and piles of old, old stock stuff around so I haven't given up hope yet but we all know what the odds are of finding anything still good after this many years. I'd almost be afraid to ask a mfgr about a ordering a custom extrusion but who knows, something may come about.

In the meantime I'll be working on a creative solution using something more commonly available. I'm going to look at aftermarket windshield rubber with a Tee shape. Maybe using that with a nylon cord to lock everything into place will produce good results.

Shannen

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In my notes about possible vendors I have an entry for:

Karr Rubber

133 Lomita Street

El Segundo, California 90245

Telephone: +1.800.955.5277 Intl: +1.310.322.1993

Fax: +1.310.640.6872

My notes say he has a wide variety of extruded rubber shapes and can custom make new dies for stuff that he does not have. I've never dealt with him or even contacted him. Just heard about him. Might be worth a call if your long distance is free.

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You have to remember that when a distributer tells you he can make it for you he's usually saying that he can purchase it from a rubber company. I don't know of any of the suppliers that actually manufacture their own extruded material. Usually it comes from regular rubber manufacturers. In many cases it might be cheaper to inquire directlly to the manufacturer because the distributer will have to pay for die costs and test runs, also and he will add on his markup which is usually between 100-200 percent. The problem is in the minimum run quantities. Most companies want a minimum of 500 -1000 ft. That's ok if you can sell it! Also you have to make sure what kind of material you need to use, natural rubber,neoprene,celular foam,etc.and what durameter to use. Rubber manufactures can be found in the Thomas Registers(industrial source books) . Your public library should have current copies. I think there could be a small market for this product ,especially for the guys who want to keep their cars as original as possible! Something to think about!

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I had a 1935 Plymouth and the rubber came in a kit with one long length and 4 short pieces. The 4 pieces held the corners down on the fabric while you worked the long piece around the perimeter. See attached for the instructions.

Plymouth top.PDF

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I had a 1935 Plymouth and the rubber came in a kit with one long length and 4 short pieces. The 4 pieces held the corners down on the fabric while you worked the long piece around the perimeter. See attached for the instructions.

Interesting attachment. Can you also post the page with the figure mentioned in the text?

Thanks!

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.

Jack M, thanks for the link to Steele rubber. I was hoping it was for a specific page or product as I've been through their '36 Plymouth section as well as a couple years on either side with no luck. Any chance you've got a part number as I don't have enough experience with vehicles this old to know what else might fit.

Thanks,

Shannen

I must have missunderstood your question, I thought that you couldnt find them at all. I have their printed catologue and it is the same as the website.

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Jim, more good tips. I was looking at actual manufacturers' sites, not distributors. I might not mind sharing some of the cost with a distributor selling rubber or restoration parts. But if they're going to pass the large majority to me then it makes more sense to cover the whole cost and sell unneeded lengths to offset the price. Even if it takes yeras. I've heard Steve's tale of having the Dodge seals made so I'm not real excited about going that route yet. I have a friend with a '36 4dr he's hoping to repair although I'd bet he's more likely to install a steel insert than pitch in for the rubber seal. But I'm going to speak with him today and I'll pitch it just in case.

ply33, I'll check with Karr. Thanks for the suggestion. Will post results here. The pdf attachment looks to be the same as what's in my reproduction 34-36 Plymouth maintenance manual. If so there's no accompanying illustration. My seal was all one piece but it was glued at the corners as the manual says to do.

hwellens, where did you buy your kit?

Even if this doesn't get too far, I appreciate all the help.

Shannen

Edited by 1project2many (see edit history)
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I put the new top in my 1935 Plymouth in the 70's. At that time you could by the kit from JC Whitney. The kits came for coupe and sedans. I sold my car back in the 80's and found another kit laying around in the garage that I sold at Hershey a couple years ago.

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Hey 1 project

If you are still in the market for that rubber seal ??

I have that seal purchased from Lynne Steel, to replace mine, only to find it does not fit under the Dodge metal roof insert.

I just registered altho I have been following your dead ends.

Gene Bryson

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1 project; No not quite.

I replaced the fabric insert with the metal insert from a 36 Dodge. I purchased the weatherstripping feeling confident it would be tucked in the same. The car was at the Upholstery shop redoing the entire interior, my instruction were to also install the weatherstripping on the top. The Upholsterer called to let me know it would not fit, so they installed silicone to fill the void, and prevent a leak. Many times I have flashbacks as to why I didn't restore the Dodge, strictly due to valuation.

If you are interested $ 35.00 for the coil to do a 4dr.

gene

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Sorry no figures, or photos appeared for comparison.

I have a 36 Ply, the W/S was bought for the Ply.

As a side note, any replacement rubber for any application from Steele is still like new. Some items purchased from others show cracks and shrinkage, but they were cheaper.

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Sorry no figures, or photos appeared for comparison.

I have a 36 Ply, the W/S was bought for the Ply.

As a side note, any replacement rubber for any application from Steele is still like new. Some items purchased from others show cracks and shrinkage, but they were cheaper.

You will see the photos above in reply #6.

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OK, it looks like the left photo with no bottom lip. The stem is 5/16 with no bottom lip. In the Steele catalog it is F-102 listed for all closed 32-35 Chrysler built cars. It doesn't resemble your old W/S.

Too many of those cars with cloth tops were sent to the bone yard due to a lack of maintenance on the top resulting in a leaky roof.

Some 60's models of Dodge had a crinkly top that resembled cloth. I used that paint product on my Dodge insert and it resembles the original top. Sorry to get your hopes up and your interest.

I knew I had a "Briggs" body, and found out after near completion, from an acquaintence who had a 36 F-O-R-D, they used a "Briggs Body" also. Although they had a metal top, you will find some repo rubber items that fit from Ford vendors.

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OK, it looks like the left photo with no bottom lip. The stem is 5/16 with no bottom lip. In the Steele catalog it is F-102 listed for all closed 32-35 Chrysler built cars. It doesn't resemble your old W/S.

Too many of those cars with cloth tops were sent to the bone yard due to a lack of maintenance on the top resulting in a leaky roof.

Some 60's models of Dodge had a crinkly top that resembled cloth. I used that paint product on my Dodge insert and it resembles the original top. Sorry to get your hopes up and your interest.

I knew I had a "Briggs" body, and found out after near completion, from an acquaintence who had a 36 F-O-R-D, they used a "Briggs Body" also. Although they had a metal top, you will find some repo rubber items that fit from Ford vendors.

Just to inform....Ford had an insert in 1936. 1937 was the first all metal top for Ford, I believe.

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Sorry to get your hopes up and your interest.

No worries. It was an honest offer. Now you have a little more info to use when selling the seal.

Just to inform....Ford had an insert in 1936. 1937 was the first all metal top for Ford, I believe.

Thanks. I've been given the name of a company which might have samples of the 36 Ford seal to check out.

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  • 1 month later...

I found a solution to my seal issue which is acceptable to me. I'm updating this thread in case someone wants to use or improve on it.

I took a chance and trimmed the Dodge seal above so I could press it into the retainer groove in the roof. The Dodge part tried to lock in place but it was no surprise that it didn't lock the fabric like it should. While considering options to supplement the seal including adhesive, a friend suggested a round filler for the remaining gap which seemed like a great idea. It turns out that 7/32" vacuum hose is a very good fit and during installation it acts as a locking strip and tightening tool at the same time. By pulling the fabric snug while pressing the seal in and finishing up by wedging the rubber hose I ended up with very tight roof. In fact, the cat volunteered to test it one night and judging by the footprints I'd say it supported her and a friend with no ill effects.

I hacked up the photo to try and show how the seal was trimmed and where the vacuum hose is placed. If I can locate one of the end pieces of the modified seal I'll get a picture with vacuum hose in place and later today or tomorrow I'll pull the car out and snap a photo of the completed roof. There are a few places where I'm going to add some urethane or other adhesive to help the seal stay in place but overall this is a done deal.

post-60404-143139070396_thumb.jpg

Edited by 1project2many (see edit history)
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