Carpet Installation Question

Hi,

Looking for tips on what to use for an underlayment (acoustical/thermal barriers) under my carpet. I've looked at Dynamat, hushmat, LizardSkin, etc. What have other members used?

Needless to say, I'm on a budget so the above products are way out of sight cost wise. I don't need a super-insulated boom-box-on-wheels but still need a little insulation to control noise and vibration. And I really don't want to use bubble wrap.

Another question, how thick can I go before the carpet doesn't fit right? Can I use a 1/4" or 5/16" thick insulation under the carpet? I asked where I bought the carpet from, but they wouldn't give me a number.

Thanks.

Since a lot of the original cardboard insulation material had come loose in my 65 Riv, I chose to install Dynamat before the installation of new carpet. New carpet comes with insulation (jute padding) glued to the bottom side of it but there was also some extra jute padding to level out the front floor where the floor pan dips down a bit. I saved and reused those two pieces and a number of people have remarked at how quite my Riv is even on the expressway. If you go with Dynamat or Hushmat, make sure you buy the hard rubber roller to insure good contact to the floor pan.

Hi,

Looking for tips on what to use for an underlayment (acoustical/thermal barriers) under my carpet. I've looked at Dynamat, hushmat, LizardSkin, etc. What have other members used?

Needless to say, I'm on a budget so the above products are way out of sight cost wise. I don't need a super-insulated boom-box-on-wheels but still need a little insulation to control noise and vibration. And I really don't want to use bubble wrap.

Another question, how thick can I go before the carpet doesn't fit right? Can I use a 1/4" or 5/16" thick insulation under the carpet? I asked where I bought the carpet from, but they wouldn't give me a number.

Thanks.

I did a budget underlayment job on the car I did for my dad. i wirebrushed down the rust on the floor, sealed with black rustoleum, and I got this secret from another car site - Menards has a product that comes in rolls in the roofing section. Its a foil backed tar coating for flashing on roofs. The rolls are in 4" wide and 9" wide. I used 2 9" rolls and 2 4" rolls to do the whole floor, from the console to the sill plate, and from the foot board to the back of the back seat pan. It sticks well, looks and feels just like dynamat, and cost under $100 for enough to do the whole car. Here is a link so you can see the brand and type I used. i didnt find it at home depot - but they did have it at Menards.

Tite-Seal™ Self-Adhesive Waterproof Flashing for doors windows

Good luck!

When I was restoring on a budget, I used 30lb asphalt based roofing felt paper, tar paper, etc and doubled it up. I had a partial roll in the shed left over from a roofing job. Maybe you know someone who will donate some to your project.

The original tar paper-like underlayment in my 66 was around 3/32 thick. then on top of that in the floor pans was a yellow foil backed (non-adhesive) fiberglass insulation maybe 1/2" thick (before installation which compressed it) then of course the jute attached to the carpet as mentioned.

Thanks everyone!

After much research, I found an underlayment designed for the purpose, but still reaonably priced called Quality Heat Shield & Sound Deadening. It is about $50-$80 plus s/h for a normal-sized car. Has both accoustical and thermal barrier properties.

Quality Heat Insulation

A few notes from my research:

- tar-based products can emit toxic fumes... installation in an enclosed and confined spaces (like cars) isn't smart.

- the shiny reflective surface used for radiant heat protection is ineffective if another surface touches it (i.e. carpet layed on top).

- the R-value of compressable insulation (i.e. fiberglass, etc.) is reduced if compressed.

- trying to remove a peel-n-stick product (i.e. Dynamat) after its installed is a PITA, therefore do it once and do it right the first time.

- convincing the wife this is all "necessary" takes some skill.

I will add that the stuff I used did have a smell when you were up close and peeled off the the backing. Once it was installed it has not had any odor since, even when the car is locked outside in the summer heat. Sounds like you have it covered - good luck!

Thanks everyone!

After much research, I found an underlayment designed for the purpose, but still reaonably priced called Quality Heat Shield & Sound Deadening. It is about $50-$80 plus s/h for a normal-sized car. Has both accoustical and thermal barrier properties.

Quality Heat Insulation

That looks likes some good stuff. Maybe better than anything I've seen actually. Please post back after using it to let us know how it worked.

I finished installing the new carpet, except for a few minor touch-ups and fixes. I've never done this before and made a few mistakes along the way. But, for the most part am happy with my own work.

The Quality Heat Insulation and Sound barrier worked very well for me. I ordered the 2-sided type that has the aluminum facing on both sides for the cold-climate areas. The front half went in with one piece, just many cuts. The rear piece needed to go in sections. I used the high-temp spray adhesive they offered with the insulation and only needed 1 can, with some left over. I did use 3 rolls of aluminum tape which was available locally at Lowes. Maybe I went overboard with outlining every cut-out and the trim around the sides, but why not!

The carpet is from ACC: your authority for custom automotive carpet, floor mats, and more (who bought the E.T. Barwick Mills plants that made our carpets originally.) It is the original color and type, but I popped for the mass backing option. I also bought the optional floor mats with embroidered Buick logo.

Attaching some quick pics showing the progress. The 2nd pic shows the Miracle Paint (POR). The 3rd pic shows the top coat over the POR, but with another rust proofing primer. There was no rust anywhere, just the typical surface rust.

The reason I had to replace the carpet was that the heater core leaked. I replaced the heater core, then replaced the carpet, since I had to tear out the whole interior anyway to replace the heater core.

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Man that looks nice.! Too bad the factory didn't go to this trouble when the car was originally built.

Ed

ive got the same carpet and backing-how did the carpet lay down-its stiff with this backing.a carpet layer told me to put it out in the sun to loosen up.any trick you found would be appreciated.

I suppose that trick would work.

I watched the installation videos on ACC web site and used the tricks I learned from that.

Since the carpet was molded by ACC to the contours of my floor pan, I really didn't have to wrestle the carpet too much. A couple spots (like under the dash area) was a bit tough.

The one trick from the video about using a round hole saw on a rotary drill, worked great, to cut the holes for the dimmer switch and the seat belts. Make sure to run the drill motor in reverse to avoid major damage to the carpet. I didn't have the right size bit, but what I got done worked out.

Another tip I can lend is to use a little lotion on your fingertip to help locate where the holes are to be cut. I carefully placed my finger in the seat belt hole with a little lotion on the fingernail, then carefully laid the carpt on top of my finger. After, I lifted the carpet back up and drilled where the lotion touched. I used a piece of wood behind the carpet while drilling.

A tip from ACC was to start in the middle and work your way out. Make the cuts from the center and get that part set, then work out to the edges. You want to get the hump area perfect before working on the chair mounts, etc. Take your time and be patient.

I spent several sleepless nights walking through in my mind every step. I also probably spent a couple hours just looking at the uncut carpet laying in the car trying to work out in my head first what to do. Then I made small cuts, a little at time. I still made a couple bad cuts, but found ways to fix them.

Good Luck!

.

wow !

that interior looked so good in those first coupla pics...

hmmm makes me think I really should go to town preparing my floor before the new carpet...

ummm . maybe a silly question, but how do you remove the accelerator pedal on the 65 ?

I wanna put the front carpet in over the next few days...

i tnink everyone would agree-get a 65 service manual before you atempt to do anything to these cars.i call it the bible for my cars.i also recomend the body manual.after using these i wouldnt attempt to work on car without.

yeah - i just realised that I never ended up ordering the body manual - I have the service manual but forgot about there being a separate book until just now when I looked to see whether I could find a diagram of the guts of my front seats... (to repair a broken hinge)

thanks for the headsup - I'll order it tonight !

Hello Whitewatersky,

The pedal has been pushed onto two ball studs at the bottom.You need to pull off.This is sometimes difficult if the rubber pedal has hardened.

hey there Sharknose - thanks !

do you mean pull it upward towards the dash ?

I'll give it a shot tomorrow

here's another thread showing centre console removal info if anyone hasn't seen it and is wondering whether to remove it for carpet installation on a 1st gen Riv (like me)

http://forums.aaca.org/f177/center-console-322096.html

The pedal should be pulled straight up from the angle of the floor on which it's sitting. It's much easier to get off that to get back on now that the rubber has aged.

Ed

ummm . maybe a silly question, but how do you remove the accelerator pedal on the 65 ?

I wanna put the front carpet in over the next few days...

Second the manual... but good pics are helpful too.

I found it easy to remove the pedal by using a large flat blade screwdriver and gently nudge it out in the same direction as the studs are pointing, which is somewhat angled upward but mostly outward.

It also helps to have a picture of the backside of the pedal so you can see what your up against.

Legends! Thanks heaps guys. Midnight here - I'll give it a shot tomoro

I got my carpet from Clark's and as you can see it has the underlay

Is there any risk in putting the carpet straight down?

i.e. heat issue with the centre console

I still have the cardboard (which is a bit moist (?) or maybe "waxy" or greasy feeling, so I may hafta pull it up and go thru Cheezeman's strip/treat/paint routine (more work!!!).

It is moist - not wet, but feels kinda waxy/moist.I peeled it up a little in sections and the floor isn't rusty underneath.

I'll price up something similar to Dynamat/Quality Heat Insulation here in Oz but I am sure racking up a bill here, so will avoid it if it's just a noise issue that the above resolves.

Great Topic Fellas.

Thanks for the informative discussion. I am about to undertake the same project. Have a bit up a head start, previous owner threw in a box of Dynamat.

Is there any risk in putting the carpet straight down?

i.e. heat issue with the centre console

It is moist - not wet, but feels kinda waxy/moist.I peeled it up a little in sections and the floor isn't rusty underneath.

Moist or slimy? Probably age-related break-down of the petrolium-based materials.

The center console should have insulation over the tranny hump from the factory. If you decide to remove the console (which is not necessary to replace the carpet), then you may want to address the dirt in the insulation. My wife complained many times over the smell, so I went through and cleaned up everything I could touch. It was previously owned by a smoker, and we are non-smokers.

I added the extra layers of insulation for a couple reasons. One was the heat from the glass packs below the floor pans was coming up. Another was to make it a bit quieter in the cabin.

Otherwise, there shouldn't be a problem with placing new carpet down on the old cardboard. My choice to clean and repaint the floor pan was to prevent further rusting and some personal pride.

I'd say it's a bit slimy rather than moist.

All good underneath it so I think i'll leave it there as it seems to be doing its job.

Mine isn't smelly thankfully.

well.... I'm pretty much done with the interior installation thanks to you all.

next is putting on the kick plates

I have had the carpet in for 4 days now to let it settle before trimming the edges and installing the kick plates.

how much carpet fits under the kick plates ideally?

my old carpet is quite a lot thinner (no plastic base nor much of the underlay).

just thought I'd ask how much you trimmed it and did it fold over into the groove or just slightly sit under the plates:

this morning I successfully spilled about 1 cup of coffee into my "cupholder" (the central storage space behind the gear lever) and it splshed out and into the rear footwell. JOY !

lucky for the plastic base ! and the dark colour. thankfully it was black coffee !

I cut mine so the edge went into that pocket over the hump. Also, after not being satisfied with how the sill plate fit, I notched a very little of the binding where it overlapped the other piece. Made the sill plate fit a little better.

.

thanks !

Hi Chuck and Whitewatersky,

I have been following this thread with great interest as I am undertaking the same project.

I started wire brushing the floor today to remove surface rust.

I have a few questions If you dont mind, Your advice would me much appreciated.

While preparing the floor for rustproofing did you remove absolutely everything? There seems to be some kind of black silicone type of substance that seals what I make out as the floor perimeter. ( there seems to be line running across the front of the floor in your photos) If it is removed is it wise to replace ?

I intend on treating the floor with a vinegar solution before rustproofing. Your thoughts on this procedure ?

As I am applying Dynamat what is the advantage of primer as in photo 3 ?

If I decide to NOT remove the console should I leave the stuff that protrudes from the console or cut it all back flush to the edge ?

Looks like I will order the carpet from AAC, I also need to redo the door panels (deluxe interior) and the outside kick panels. Would you know approx how much extra carpet I should order.

I appreciate any advice

Thanks as Always

hiya. i actually left my floor as per the pic earlier in this thread, i.e.

as such, i'm probably not the best person to answer those questions. i left it as-is based on feedback from a couple of people here, given there was no obvious damage under a coupla areas that i lifted up.

i pulled up any loose fuzz, foil and other crap but tried to leave anything else in place.

removing the centre console would have made life a lot easier, but since I could foresee things like wiring etc being disturbed or screws etc being lost, we managed to do everything with the console in place.

i found that i hadta loosen the screws up at the dash. in the photo below they're under the dash approx in location of the red rings.

(image pinched from a post by Steelman - hope you don't mind me grabbing your image - my car is at the muffler shop!)

that helped so that when lifting the rear end of the console it would lift (only about 1cm) but at the same time avoid it cracking either side of the front ashtray - that thing is flexible, but only to a point.

we then had to muck around a lot getting this section back into place indicated by the green rings:

on the right side you can see a screw. in that area the console has a horizontal tab that has to slide into a corresponding slot in the dash that is tightened / loosened by that screw.

to access these screws you have to take out the section from the ashtray thru up to the fan vent

it looks like the horizontal section has busted off on the right side of Steelman's pic - we were lucky our side didn't break. all i can say is be pretty careful when wiggling this console around to avoid breaking sections. mine has a few cracks, and pieces busted but thankfully nowhere really obvious

i found that the wiggling and lossening of other screws resulted in that section being misaligned. i couldn't get it 100% flush, but pretty good.

it'll be pretty obvious if you check it out and use the chassis manual:P

my 1965 Chassis manual shows the console or "INSTRUMENT PANEL" on 10-93 and 10-94

BigOldV8 posted (over here http://forums.aaca.org/f177/center-console-322096.html#post1034723):

"In the Chassis Service manual, check on page 10-90 and 10-91 - you'll find exploded views of the Riviera console showing how it attaches."

these exploded views are super handy to have

When reading posts here, I tend to look at the pictures first, then read the report that goes along with them. As I paged down, I thought, hey, that is the same radio I have, and his console has the upper right corner busted just like mine. Then I saw the key ring and knew what was going on. Glad you could make use of it. Should help others down the line. And that is the whole point.

Then I saw the key ring and knew what was going on.

And what was going on ?

And what was going on ?

Whitewatersky used a picture of my Riv in his post. Pinched my pic, as he says.

Whitewatersky used a picture of my Riv in his post. Pinched my pic, as he says.

ahhhh - I see now - I've missed somehow that info :-)

Hi Chuck and Whitewatersky,

While preparing the floor for rustproofing did you remove absolutely everything? There seems to be some kind of black silicone type of substance that seals what I make out as the floor perimeter. ( there seems to be line running across the front of the floor in your photos) If it is removed is it wise to replace ?

I intend on treating the floor with a vinegar solution before rustproofing. Your thoughts on this procedure ?

As I am applying Dynamat what is the advantage of primer as in photo 3 ?

If I decide to NOT remove the console should I leave the stuff that protrudes from the console or cut it all back flush to the edge ?

Looks like I will order the carpet from AAC, I also need to redo the door panels (deluxe interior) and the outside kick panels. Would you know approx how much extra carpet I should order.

I appreciate any advice

Thanks as Always

I am with Whitewatersky, that I am probably not the best at this. With that understood... The rubber seal around the perimeter is probably seam sealer (or such). I removed the loose stuff but pretty much left it a lone. When I did the trunk, I carefully removed all seam sealer, sand blaster, then replaced with new seam sealer. The floor pan didn't receive all that attention.

Since you're applying Dynamat, all grease/oil must be removed. I can't say vinegar is the right stuff, but you need to clean it good. Otherwise, the Dynamat will eventually get loose.

Under the console should be insulation. Anything you remove probably should be replaced to keep the heat down.

The ACC extra yardage was a learning moment for me. I thought they would sell me a [square] yard of carpet. However, they sell it in linear yards and I think the rolls are 72" wide. Silly me, I did the math thinking 1.5 square yards is enough for the doors, but they sent 1.5 linear yards (x 72") so I think I got enough to cover the whole floor again. I haven't done my door panels yet. It looks like I need to remove them to do the work right. Also will need to re-glue the leather trim at the bottom, so I decided to think through first for a while before I started.

Chuck, all that extra carpet would make for a nice looking trunk! Think about it. If your car is not 100% stock, it might be a nice touch.

here's those pages from the Service Manual:

Hey Guys,

Thanks for the informative replies. I have almost completed preparing the floor area whilst still contemplating the console removal. As the area had surface rust I hit it with a wire brush but I am not completely happy with the finish as there seem to be the remaining fibres from the padding set in glue so I will give it a once over with my drill using a brass wire attachment that should do it. Next I will give it a coat of RUST GAURD Followed by DYNAMAT. I purchased my carpet from AUTO CARPET DIRECT through their Ebay store. Meanwhile what is concerning me is the awful condition of the padding under the dashboard , the rubber padding on the firewall and the fibreglass padding inside the kick panel vents. I pulled out whatever I could from under the dash, any suggestions on a modern day replacement alternative ? Are rubber firewall pads available specific to the 1st gen. As for the nasty toxic fibreglass insulation in the vents what do you suggest to replace it with ?

Any advice is well appreciated:)

I've seen new die-cut firewall pads available. They may be available from a couple places (OPGI is the only one that comes to mind immediately). I was thinking of doing that myself, but this photo just haunts me. :eek: I didn't want to go that far.