1915 power assisted brake ideas?

Here is the situation.

I have a weak right leg from a motorcycle accident years ago and a recent broken hip on the same damn leg.

I am also building two 1915 cars with pull rod operated rear internal expanding brakes and one transmission brake.

I do not want to change the look of the cars, and I don't want to change the braking method.... i.e. I will fit the best brake shoes and make the system work as best I can. So disc brakes are not an option. But something I can hide underneath is fine.

In an ideal world I would like to find a method of mild "power assist" that pushes or pulls on the rods as I move them by depressing the brake pedal or pulling the hand lever. Maybe something like an electric/hydraulic ram? Again in and ideal world I would also like a system that will work if the engine is not running but the car is on. Hence thinking something powered from the battery (which will be 12v)

Does anyone have any ideas???

The American Lafrance as two sets of shoes in each rear drum, one set operated by foot the other by hand. The Fiat has one set of shoes in the back operated by hand and a transmission brake operated by foot.

Regards

Gavin

ABS (and probably others as well) have a 12 volt electric power booster set up that may be adaptable.

The Best in Brakes & Steering...

Alternatively you can get a 12volt vacum pump which would allow you to hook a small 7 inch power booster to your existing brake rods.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SSB-28146/

Generating the assist force isn't a problem. Determining how much force to apply in proportion to pressure applied to the brake pedal IS the problem. You need something like the external power brake system used in late 50s/early 60s GMs. This was a diaphragm booster that mounted to the pedal, not between the pedal and the M/C as is now common.

Some of the Model T Ford guys have adapted disc brakes to their cars. You can check their Forum.

Phil

I wonder if a hydraulic clutch assembly from a 90's and up american truck would help?? most likely no pedal pressure to feel any ressistance.

Here's a link you might find interesting about the new disc brakes for the Model T. Don;t know if they can be adapted to your cars, but you can see how they look.

Phil

What about adapting the electric brakes from a trailer system?

The Crane Simplex,,large car had a transmisson brake ,,,3,5 rear ratio will increase the leverage of course,,,

I owned an early Rolls,1912,with a transmisson brake also,,,light hand pressure on the pedal was all that was necessary,,

Electric brake is shewn in some Dykes manuals,,,,

I have also owned Packard and Pierce and Mercedes cars of the 20s with vacuum power assist,

There are many choices,,,,Ben

The 4wheel brakes take more push on the pedal usually,,

What about adapting the electric brakes from a trailer system?

And again, the problem is that with one very expensive exception that I'm aware of, the problem is not the brakes, it's coming up with a controller that applies the brakes in proportion to pedal pressure. Nearly every electric brake controller on the market does NOT apply electric brake pressure in proportion to pedal pressure. You can limit the pressure via a setting on the controller, but once set this is fixed. Once the controller senses the brake pedal is applied, the force at the wheels ramps up to the same braking pressure every time.

I think the electric trailer brake is a great idea that could be adapted in conjunction with the original brake system.

I also think you could possibly incorporate a sliding or rotating rheostat on the brake pedal or rods that applies more power to the electric brakes the harder you push the brake pedal

Electric brakes, I don't know? you need a 12v power supply and you would have NO BRAKES when the vehicle is not running!

In my 99 dodge cummins the hydraulic clutch assembly is a one peice unit, from the reservoir, on the fire wall, to the slave cylinder that bolts on the the side of the tranny. The reservoir is smaller than a can of soup. you would need tha make an addapter off the pedal to push in the piston at the reservoir, and a fulcrum under the car to move the brake rods. Im guessing the power of this unit is close to 1/2ton.

The only thing I would question is the ability to feel brake pressure.

Go to a wrecker and have a look at one, a very small unit.

Just a thought.

Gavin,

I know what you are trying to stop, so I would suggest a vacuum booster out of mid 30's Packard and its associated switch.

I had a 1925 Mercedes,,,and a 1928 Pierce and a 1929 Packard with power vacuum boosters that worked well,,,Chance for someone to make a repop assy ???

All these were proven units,,,I just cant recall the makers,, I owned these just 50 years ago,,Ben

The Bragg Kliesrath brake booster idea from the Packard may be a very viable option. The parts and rebuilding services are available too.

I was surprised to see an earlier brake vacuum booster in my Vol. II, Automobile Engineering Automobile Techincal Society, 1919. The Prest-O-Lite unit is shown on the attached diagrams. One diagram even appears to be of a similar vintage as your car. These diagrams should provide some insight on possible packaging options.

Incidently an electric brake by the Hartford Electric Brake Company is also shown. It appears to utilize a worm gear and cable pull. It is operated by a hand lever on the steering column. I would venture a guess that few if any of these units survive. Not a very practical period looking retrofit in your case.

Vintageride

The Prest-O-Lite unit is shown on the attached diagrams. One diagram even appears to be of a similar vintage as your car. These diagrams should provide some insight on possible packaging options.

Perfect. Of course, the magic is the proportional vacuum valve, not the booster.

Here is the situation.

I have a weak right leg from a motorcycle accident years ago and a recent broken hip on the same damn leg.

I am also building two 1915 cars with pull rod operated rear internal expanding brakes and one transmission brake.

I do not want to change the look of the cars, and I don't want to change the braking method.... i.e. I will fit the best brake shoes and make the system work as best I can. So disc brakes are not an option. But something I can hide underneath is fine.

In an ideal world I would like to find a method of mild "power assist" that pushes or pulls on the rods as I move them by depressing the brake pedal or pulling the hand lever. Maybe something like an electric/hydraulic ram? Again in and ideal world I would also like a system that will work if the engine is not running but the car is on. Hence thinking something powered from the battery (which will be 12v)

Does anyone have any ideas???

The American Lafrance as two sets of shoes in each rear drum, one set operated by foot the other by hand. The Fiat has one set of shoes in the back operated by hand and a transmission brake operated by foot.

Regards

Gavin

Gavin, would you consider your handicap something of a permanent type? I have had friends who have had complete loss of legs and get on fine with handicap steering wheel controls (brake and accelerator) for a car with a automatic. I was thinking you could use these devises and with your left leg operating the clutch. I think it would be much cheaper to go this way and the devises are very easy to remove and convert to another car when that times comes. It certainly is a solution for many people who need their wheels for work and play.

Don

The leg/hip is going to give me trouble for the rest of my life, but I don't know how bad it will get. At this stage I could stop the cars. As I am in the building stage of both cars I figured I might as well try and incorperate what I am going to need later in life as I intend to die with these cars in the shed!

That early Prest o lite system is interesting and I will look into that and all the other options people have suggested! Thanks all!

Gavin

I would second Mochet's advice on looking into a disc brake conversion. Look at Model T examples and convert to your ALF's needs. In the end, it may be the simplest way to go.

Dewandre or Bragg Kleisrath vacuum assisted systems for mechanical brakes are the two most suitable. The latter is probably the easiest to manufacture if you cannot obtain an original, and you may be able to access through anyone with a 1929 or later Stutz in NZ. The valve and the dash control setting on the dashboard are the only special items, and if you look through parts for sale section of prewarcar.com you can buy much of what you need. It is not necessarily cheap. Vacuum resevoir and servo pancake are simple and routine.

Frank Gardner visited the 1980 Glidden at Bretton Woods with vacuum hand controls for clutch and brakes of his 1930 Franklin sedan. There was discussion of his last series largest 1914 Packard Six, for which he could not find a buyer; so I understand he may have had vacuum asists on that too. That is a very large car, but less so than most fire trucks.

Frank also had his 1930 model A Ford and 1912 Stanley Steamer fitted for hand control,,

We tend to forget that horrable poleo epidemic of 1948,,,I can just remember before,,,

,,Sadly,,,Ben

I have 29 buick with contrcting external brakes they are not too good in todays traffic

installed a 34 packard booster with cable pull. not enough! doubled cable fot 2 part pull not bad

main problem was vacuum actuator found what i was told to be from 29 chev 1/12 ton truck

consists of heavy treaded yoke equipped rod with valve in between . replaces pull rod from pedal to equalizer bar conect to manifold and booster

i am in need of another set up like this for a 29 buick roadster mainly a valve or a booster with built in valve in piston rod

Caleb Bragg was a Mercer racing driver on the T-heads, and started from pole in the 1912 Indianapolis. I understand you can now buy everything new reproduction for the Bragg Kleisrath system, so it may be better to buy than make up from scratch. They were used on Stutz and Blackhawk cars from 1929 on, and had an adjusting valve on the dash so the driver could vary the amount of power assist. With respect to the contracting band brakes, you can make them very good.

If there is rain or water on the road, you have to get rid of that from between the lings and the drums. A series of 45 degree grooves across the linings, about 2 1/4 inches apart, will get rid of water and lining debris. You can choose whether to exhaust this either under the car, or outwards to make the wheel dirty, depending on your preference. ( This is by no means a new idea. The 1911 Napier car I am restoring has 45 degree grooves like that on the cast iron brake shoes, which work in steel drums.) Several times before I have described in chapter and verse rebuilding steel drums with metallised coating of Metco Spraysteel LS. This work-hardens, restores the original rigidity, has a similar coefficient of friction to sg cast iron, and is compatible with modern lining materials. You can achieve good efficiency using what is effectively invisible modern technology. You will see comment in Maurice Hendry's book, "Cadillac: Standard of the World", that they very notably increased the efficiency of the brakes on the V16 Cadillacs by changing to high quality cast iron drums.

I don't want this to sound like a smarta** remark, but I would learn to brake with my left leg/foot. Use both legs and the hand brake in an emergency. Anyone who has ever driven a Model T has practiced that move!

where can I purchase new or used Bragg Kleisrath control valve and vacuum cyl

To power assist mechanical brakes, one could look and see what controls some trucks use with Westinghouse type braking...Or modify the brake pedal so that the link to the brake rod is slotted. This is spring loaded so when you apply the brake you push against the spring. This movement opens a valve to the vacuum cylinder which applies assistance until the valve closes. This is how power steerings work with hydraulics. The principle is the same. You would need to set it up, that's called fiddle around a bit... Or disconnect the brake rod from the pedal. Fit a master cylinder with a booster straight to the brake pedal. Fit a clutch slave cylinder to the brake rod.This may need to be a piston from a disc brake caliper. Connect master cylinder to the slave cylinder. More fiddling around of course..... Aside from this, most of us have now learnt that old cars with steel brake drums had very soft brake linings. These wear out fairly quickly. In the old days brakes were not a big priority and when the linings needed replacing most people would ask for a lining that lasted longer(harder).This would wear the drums out and you had to be Herculean with the brake pedal. Fred. Edwards.

If there is room to the left of the clutch, add a left-foot brake to augment the normal brake pedal. I'm thinking like the 'driver's training' brake pedal on the right side of the car, or the Mail-delivery right side brake and gas pedal.

The left side brake pedal would connect via a pivoting shaft that allows the left pedal to help pull down the right pedal.

The driver would slide the gearshift into neutral, and use both feet to apply the brakes, once stopped, then use the left foot on the clutch to get into gear again.

GLong