Front Wheel Drive (FWD)

My main focus is on the development of X type frames for any type motor vehicle but there is one section a bit sketchy for me. That is the link between Front Wheel Drive cars and the X frame.

History shows that Front Wheel Drive (FWD) is as old as the automobile itself coming in various forms. Some of the earliest successful examples were in racing cars such as the 1904-1910 Christie or the Miller's of the early 1920s. There were many prototype only examples which had such good intentions of being mass produced that showroom brochures and press kits were printed up for some such as the 1917 Frontmobile or the 1916 Homer-Laughlin (yes, the same people who made dinnerware). Even Bendix more known for braking systems, created a streamline model in 1934 that still exists today.

Some that did end up being mass produced include cars by DKW, Adler, Alvis, Stoewer, Ruxton, Citreon, and of course Cord. Out of these, DKW, Stoewer, Alvis, and Cord L29 series are the only models that "I know of" using the X configuration frame outside of a single prototype 1931 Packard.

The basis of the FWD was to gain traction, interior space, and lower the body height. With weight distribution sometimes being off as with the Cord L29, an X brace was needed to compensate for the torque stresses. Some examples given were small cars with small engines that did not really need the extra strength yet DKW and Stoewer had a very narrow almost backbone-like chassis with a X.

Does anyone have anything to add about theories about FWD and X braced frames... why or why not used and their success or failures?

So far a list of pre war 20th century FWD car companies that range from drawing board only to mass produced are:

Adler

Alvis [X]

Auto Union (Audi)

Badger

Bendix

Christie

Citreon

Cord (L29 not 810/812) [X]

DKW [X]

Front Drive

Frontmobile

Gardner

Gregory

Hoffman

Homer-Laughlin

Miller

Packard [X]

Ruxton

Stoewer [X]

Can anyone also add to the list and in particular, any that used an X brace chassis? Thanks!

And NO, contrary to some beliefs the "first" American FWD mass produced car wasn't the 1966 Oldsmobile Toronado

Eric

And NO, contrary to some beliefs the "first" American FWD mass produced car wasn't the 1966 Oldsmobile Toronado

Eric

Actually, I usually see the Toro referred to as the first MODERN FWD American production car.

I concur that the Toro would be a "modern" fwd car, as the timespan between it and the Cord is very significant. I recall seeing a comment on the Toronado's additional traction on "roads to the ski lodge", about how much better it was, by Mr. Belz, who I believe was a major engineer at Olds at the time.

NTX5467

I can see where some people may get that impression about the Toronado but "mass production" would be something that went to assembly line production and to the consumer. There were 5,014 of the Cord L-29 series cars built in basically 2 years (introduced in August 1929 as a 1930 model and ended in 1931). Even though they were troublesome due to the engine-transmission configuration weight ratio issues, it was successful enough to be considered the first mass produced American FWD car.

But if you speak of first "successful" FWD that multiples were built then that would be the Christie (even if all 6 were race cars). Christie was going to produce taxis which didn't pan out but he did produce FWD fire trucks that were successful.

The Frontmobile was built in Grenloch, a neighborhood in Washington Township, Gloucester County here in South New Jersey. I think it was the only car built in South Jersey. They only made a few of them but at least one supposedly survived and was said to be in the Harrah collection.

Following up on X-frame and Dave: According to the The Complete Encyclopedia of Motorcars, Christie was in business making front wheel drive vehicles from 1904-1910. The Frontmobile was made from 1917-1918 and used a drop-frame along with transverse springs to give a low center of gravity.

Following up on X-frame and Dave: According to the The Complete Encyclopedia of Motorcars, Christie was in business making front wheel drive vehicles from 1904-1910. The Frontmobile was made from 1917-1918 and used a drop-frame along with transverse springs to give a low center of gravity.

Christie was only making race cars and some books have him "making" cars in general which is incorrect. He tried to get a taxi contract but it didn't go through but did get one to make fire trucks.

Frontmobile only made 1 prototype. The company may have been "founded" one year and plans drawn out but production never happened. It is one of those optomistic companies that even printed brochures.

so if we don't count earlier American production or production elsewhere in the world, the Toronado is first.

maybe technically correct, but of what real significance?

The Toronado is a cool car , and I think the engine/transmission approach is interesting and possibly innovative, but the FWD trail was blazed long before. Contrary to their PR dept at times, GM really didn't invent everything

so if we don't count earlier American production or production elsewhere in the world, the Toronado is first.

maybe technically correct, but of what real significance?

The Toronado is a cool car , and I think the engine/transmission approach is interesting and possibly innovative, but the FWD trail was blazed long before. Contrary to their PR dept at times, GM really didn't invent everything

Just because a car was built long before many of us were even born (speaking of the Cord) doesn't mean we should count it out. That would be like saying that the 1927 silent movie "Wings" that won best picture of the year doesn't count because people today don't watch old black and white movies or silent movies.

I am not discarding early makers... Christie was the first "successful" FWD as some failed and others never got past a prototype. Cord was the first mass produced FWD. Modern era would be 20th century so not sure why people are trying to stick a "modern era" tag on the Toronado alone?

I would like to add a make to your list. In 1932 Hupmobile produced what I believe was only one front wheel drive car. It still exists and is in a private collection. I saw it in 2003 and as I recall it did not have an x frame. Carl

I would like to add a make to your list. In 1932 Hupmobile produced what I believe was only one front wheel drive car. It still exists and is in a private collection. I saw it in 2003 and as I recall it did not have an x frame. Carl

I have read that but it is hard to find info on this other than a mention that they had planned a FWD version in 1931. If you find more please post it here, thanks!

I would have to seriously search to see if I have a picture of it and it wouldn't be digital so I doubt I could post it. Here is a picture of a picture of it. It was a six cylinder sedan with unique extensive truss work from the cowl forward as it didn't have any substantial framework ahead of the engine.

Carl

Christie was only making race cars and some books have him "making" cars in general which is incorrect. He tried to get a taxi contract but it didn't go through but did get one to make fire trucks.

Frontmobile only made 1 prototype. The company may have been "founded" one year and plans drawn out but production never happened. It is one of those optomistic companies that even printed brochures.

Thanks for the correction! And here I assumed that a tried and true published reference source (The Complete Encyclopedia of Motorcars) would be vetted and reliable... But many the time something is written somewhere and gets repeated again and again without verification. Perhaps Wikipedia and the collaborative web does help root these things out (or maybe just make it quicker and easier to repeat the error??)

I would have to seriously search to see if I have a picture of it and it wouldn't be digital so I doubt I could post it. Here is a picture of a picture of it. It was a six cylinder sedan with unique extensive truss work from the cowl forward as it didn't have any substantial framework ahead of the engine.

Carl

Still not finding anything about a produced or existing Hupmobile FWD.

The standard models of 1931 were ladder frames while 1932 on were X braced frames excluding Skylarks.

Ok. I did a quick look and didn't find any of my photos from 2003. 2003 was the year of the front wheel drive at Auburn, Indiana and a select few were invited. The Packard 12 couldn't make it, but the Hupmobile and a Ruxton were their. I'm not going to argue and can't prove the existence of this one of a kind prototype at this point in time, other than the picture I posted which doesn't show the drivetrain. I can tell you it was on exhibit in Auburn, Indiana in 2003 driving under it's own power and seen by thousands. Carl

Ok. I did a quick look and didn't find any of my photos from 2003. 2003 was the year of the front wheel drive at Auburn, Indiana and a select few were invited. The Packard 12 couldn't make it, but the Hupmobile and a Ruxton were their. I'm not going to argue and can't prove the existence of this one of a kind prototype at this point in time, other than the picture I posted which doesn't show the drivetrain. I can tell you it was on exhibit in Auburn, Indiana in 2003 driving under it's own power and seen by thousands. Carl

I'm not disputing it exists... just that it is elusive finding anything about it on the Internet.

Sorry, guess I got a little grumpy. One of a kind prototypes from even companies still in existence dropped out of sight for how many years? Sorry, but I can't lead you to any other information about it and I've only known of it to leave it's storage that one time. Carl

I just found one sentence talking about the Hupmobile's front wheel drive: "Hupp had its own line of well-designed, mid-priced and upper mid-priced cars and saw no advantage to making the Ruxton--though a prototype was produced to mollify Andrews, the controlling stock holder." This came form the following site: Huppwardly Mobile | Hemmings Motor News That's about the best I can do. I'll let you continue the search. Carl

I wonder whether Bill Cuthbert in California would know about the FWD Hupmobile. He's written many historical articles for the Horseless Carriage Gazette, and he's a particular aficionado of Hupmobile. The most recent e-mail address I have for him is billcut at att.net. His phone number is five five nine four three three nine one one seven. (Obviously, I'm trying to discourage undesirables from bothering him.) But hurry - Bill is 93!

Gil Fitzhugh, Morristown, NJ

I wonder whether Bill Cuthbert in California would know about the FWD Hupmobile. He's written many historical articles for the Horseless Carriage Gazette, and he's a particular aficionado of Hupmobile. The most recent e-mail address I have for him is billcut at att.net. His phone number is five five nine four three three nine one one seven. (Obviously, I'm trying to discourage undesirables from bothering him.) But hurry - Bill is 93!

Gil Fitzhugh, Morristown, NJ

Thanks. I sent him an email and let's see what happens.

The X frame is an obvious way to brace a frame from an engineering standpoint. It must have occurred to many early designers. Perhaps what discouraged them from using it, was interference with the drive shaft and rear axle.

In front drive cars the designer did not have to worry.

I know they did eventually incorporate the X frame into conventional cars. But it took a bit of doing.

The X frame is an obvious way to brace a frame from an engineering standpoint. It must have occurred to many early designers. Perhaps what discouraged them from using it, was interference with the drive shaft and rear axle.

In front drive cars the designer did not have to worry.

I know they did eventually incorporate the X frame into conventional cars. But it took a bit of doing.

Actually, the Stutz Blackhawk had an X in 1929, the Cord L-29 the same year. There were X's dating back to 1923 on cars in Europe. It wasn't too long after the Cord that regular cars were using them, many worldwide by 1932.

More on the Frontmobile: the man's name was Bateman and he had a company manufacturing various farm implements in Grenloch. After he made what's said to be two cars, a roadster in 1917 and a touring sedan in 1918 he moved to Collingswood,NJ and changed the name to Camden Motors,Co but no more cars were made. The sedan touring still exists in Reno.

This is the placard on the car shown above in the Natmus Museum 1918 Frontmobile (very rare) Placard | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

is that a detachable top or perhaps the first 4 dr hardtop?

It's called a California top. It replaced the regular folding top. I believe you still had to hang side curtains if you wanted to be (sort of) enclosed in inclement weather.

Gil Fitzhugh, Morristown, NJ

More on the Frontmobile: the man's name was Bateman and he had a company manufacturing various farm implements in Grenloch. After he made what's said to be two cars, a roadster in 1917 and a touring sedan in 1918 he moved to Collingswood,NJ and changed the name to Camden Motors,Co but no more cars were made. The sedan touring still exists in Reno.

Thanks for the (2) car correction but still doesn't represent "mass production"

It's called a California top. It replaced the regular folding top. I believe you still had to hang side curtains if you wanted to be (sort of) enclosed in inclement weather.

Gil Fitzhugh, Morristown, NJ

I noticed that top right away when i first saw this car. Unusual and elegant and almost has a funeral wagon look.

It's described as a "Touring Sedan" so I think it's fixed. I would also agree that it qualifies as a hardtop, 4 door no less.