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35 Airflow spare tire cover


jazzer3

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Happy New Year everyone, I bought a 35 C2 Airflow to serve as reference and parts as I work on a 36 C10 but have decided to fix the 35 up. Included are some photos of before and after. I had to see how good it could look without restoration before I tackle the rust problem underneath. Tonight I was able to remove all 12 bolts holding the front seat frame to the floor, it took a lot of turning in and out and in and out but they all finally came out.

I cannot get the spare tire cover off, I removed the shoulder bolt and looked for any other fasteners and can't find anything, is it just stuck? A few raps with a brass punch and heavy hammer to the center washer didn't help. I recently saw a photo of a 35 Plymouth and it appears to have the same style cover.

Now that the interior is out the car is going up on jackstands there is a whole lot of metal replacing needed.

Why can't I get that spare tire cover off,

Jay

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The spare tyre cover is secured by the 19mm (3/4") bolt in the centre, which threads into a steel bracket in turn bolted to the rear of the body. In addition, there is an over-centre catch on the outside of the cover, at the bottom. Undo both and it should come off.

Just in case it has the wrong size tyre within, try deflating the tyre inside to make things easier.

Adam..

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Thanks Adam, Last night I was checking out the joint at the bottom of the stainless molding that goes around the circumference of the cover, one side of the joint has two rivets and the other side has a hole about 1/8" diameter and is located close to the joint. I tried pushing a small punch into the hole thinking it might release something but had no luck, although I didn't really put much effort as it was getting late and I had already accomplished removing all 12 bolts holding the front seat frame to the floor, so I was happy about that.

Jay

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Hi Jay

Just a further thought; with the central bolt loose or removed, it should be possible to spin the cover on the spare wheel so that the catch at the bottom is visible to one side or the other. It may help you see what is going on within.

Interesting looking car. Is it running? I would be tempted to get it running and drive it just the way it is. It would grab much attention that way and you would have no fears about it getting scratched if you leave it in a car park.

Adam..

Edited by Alfa (see edit history)
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Adam I bought this as a parts car but after getting it into my shop I decided it needs to go back on the road. The last two weeks were spent cleaning the car to see how presentable it could become and I am pleased with the results.

It doesn't run but I'm not too concerned about that it will have a straight 8 but it might be a 50 engine.

I will have to replace all side windows and do some rust repair under the door sills.

My goal is to have it on the road looking just about as it sits here. It is amazing what some compound and polish will do. I found both keys in a glove box and they work the ignition, door, and glove box.

My ignition key is offset is this correct for a 35?

I've included a pic of the engine in the car and it appears to be cracked but comparing it to the engine for our 36 there is also a line running parallel to the deck surface and just below it.

I am supposed to be putting an engine in our 50 Dodge Coronet but every time I get to the shop I start playing with the Airflow. I'm going to put it up on stands and give the underside of all the flooring fasteners a shot with penetrating oil and let it sit while the Dodge gets fixed.

Jay

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Hi Jay

Thanks for sharing the extra photos. Very interesting. My car is a 1935 Airflow 6 (Badged as Chrysler for the UK market, it is a DeSoto SE), pictured on the other thread about finding gaskets. It has the offset key exactly like yours, which fits the ignition and the one lockable (with key) door.

What a shame about the crack in your block, although it is hard to make out in the photo. I would have thought it could be repaired. There are number of companies here that offer metal stitching to repair such damage. There must be someone near you that can do that work.

Still, for the moment you had better leave the Airflow and get on with the other car!!!!:)

Did you manage to remove the spare wheel cover yet?

Adam Moody,

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Hey Adam, I haven't been to my shop for a day or two, I'll wrestle that tire cover tomorrow if possible, my Wife's family celebrates Christmas this weekend, we had Holy Supper tonight, and I can't use "working on old cars" as an excuse not to be there, actually it is nice, they are very traditional with a lot of singing in an unknown language.

There are five screws around the circumference of the stainless strip on the face of the spare tire cover and not knowing if they are original I thought it might be possible someone ran screws right through into the sidewall of the spare. I turned one screw loose and a nut dropped out from behind so I eliminated that as a problem.

As far as the engine goes if it is cracked I worked as a welder most of my life and it included a lot of maintenance welding, If it is weldable I hope I can do it.

Our 50 Coronet is a nice car but hasn't been driven for about five years and needs to be driven before it needs everything fixed. I recently bought the running gear from a 55 Plymouth and hope this engine is okay to put right in.

If possible tomorrow the 35 is going up on stands and getting the undercarriage sprayed with penetrating oil then it can sit for a while.

Jay

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Adam I put a bear hug on the tire cover and tried to turn it with no luck but I pulled on on side and felt it loosen, working around the circumference it came off. I was afraid to pull too hard as it felt like it was about to kink, if you look at the one photo it looks like the tire was vulcanized to the cover. There was no need to remove anything but the center bolt.

Both seats are out, I was all the way back to the trunk the trunk floor mat and the fiber side boards are in good condition. I saw a little bit of the trunk floor and it looks solid all the rust repair should be around the perimeter.

Thanks everyone,

Jay

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Hooray !!!

I was worried about that cover. Thanks for the pics of the back of the car. It looks as though it will be quite straightforward to sort out. I look forward to hearing about it.

The metal stitching I mentioned involves drilling a succession of small holes across the crack and inserting small rods to "stitch" it together. This can be more successful than welding on large castings.

My local company is "Surelock" in Oakham. Google their website for details.

Like the 50 Coronet too.

Adam..

Edited by Alfa (see edit history)
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Adam I took a wire brush and a sharp edged scraper to what I thought was the crack and think the block is OK in that area. I'm not pulling any of the running gear out until I get some rust repair completed but I am thinking of filling the engine and transmission with a kerosene and marvel mystery oil concoction and let sit. Tomorrow I want to get front carpet out, and anything else in the way of removing the floor boards. Then it goes up on stands, I'm curious to pull the brake drums to find out how things look. Thanks for your interest.

Jay

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Hey that sounds like great news. Is the engine seized? or does it turn? In any case a soak in kero won`t do any harm at all. If it is free and will turn on the starter, I would be tempted to do a compression test, or better yet, a cylinder leakage test.

I have done the brakes on my car a couple of times. So I will be interested to hear how you get on. Do you have a hub puller for the rear?

Adam..

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The puller is on with pressure applied, hope it has popped until I see it again. I have a Proto puller I've used on our other Chrysler products but they are all five lugs with the six lugs I am only able to use two of the puller arms. If necessary I can borrow a different style puller from a friend.

The engine is definitely stuck when winching it off the trailer I couldn't understand why it didn't want to move, it was in gear, the manifolds, starter, distributor and some other parts have been removed but I did get them with the car.

The interior is down to the boards all padding and trunk lining is out and it sits on jackstands and everything underneath was sprayed with penetrating oil.

One photo shows the new interior light. It was too dark inside the car and there happened to be a florescent light fixture not being used, it is nice and bright inside now. The rubber mat for the trunk is in nice condition, note photo of backside of mat with the Goodyear logo. Why was there a mat all the way in the rear of the car behind the fiber board trunk lining? (there is a photo of it)

Jay

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Hi Jay

I have a sykes pickavant hydraulic puller which deals with the hub tapers with ease. You can swap the number of legs to make any combination. However, it sounds as though you are familiar with doing the job.

The rest of the car looks quite fair. Some welding in the back, but easy work as it is hidden when finished. The engine may be more of a challenge.

I do like the new design interior light though!!

Adam..

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Hello again, the challenge that worries me the most now is figuring out how the different body panels meet each other particularly in the support areas. I will remove the fuel tank next but from the inside I see two body supports way back there that seem to be their own islands also there are straps that run from the inner fender to the arched channel that are undone.

Do you know of any publications that would have body specifications or critical measurements of the body structure?

All doors line up well and open and shut as if their supports are solid, it is just getting everything from the sill down sorted out. The bottoms of the doors are as solid as new.

Although I am not restoring the outside of the car I don't want to do anything underneath that would have to be redone if the next sucker:D decides to restore the car.

Are repair panels made for these cars, I hoped maybe a repair panel made for a different vehicle would work.

I found a good article in the Airflow Tech CD on floor construction written by Pete Haldiman although it is for a 34 DeSoto coupe it is a well detailed drawing, I'm sure it will help in replacing the floor boards. I need all the input I can get!

Take care all,

Jay

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I am hoping to be able to compare them I don't know now if there are differences in the rear support structure due to the body design change between 35 and 36 but I bet I find out. I originally bought the 35 to use as reference and maybe an occasional part in getting the 36 running it seems now I'll be doing the opposite. Too cold here now to work on it but I need to go to my shop to get some plumbing tools I'll check that drum puller while I'm there hopefully it popped.

Jay

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Guest JohnArthurSpinks

Hi Jay and Adam,

I have been monitoring your communications with interest and thought that maybe I could assist you on the repairs of your C2.

The support straps that you refer to in the trunk area on the C2 are to support the spare tire carrier and tire.

As you no doubt will agree the weight of the tire and rim is very significant and without the supports the tire sitting on the rear of the body would eventually end up inside the trunk.

The structural design in the '35 body is almost identical to that which is in your C10.

They are both Imperial versions of the Airflow and share the same frame and body panels albeit with a few subtle changes.

The most major being that a hole was cut in the rear of the C10 body and a bustle trunk was fitted up and lead moulded into the body.

To my knowledge you will not find any replacement rust repair panels anywhere nor will you find anything from any other vehicle that will substitute.

The Airflow broke new ground in many areas and from our experiences here in Aussie we have had to manufacture panels etc to replace those that were kaput.

Jay do you have a '34 Airflow Body Manual as this shows most of what you need to know albeit with slight variations that occurred each year.

anyway must close as I have many pressing issues at moment.

Please keep in touch as I may be able to help you.

Finally are you a member of the Airflow Club?

Cheers

John Spinks

email johnspinks@dodo.com.au

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Guest JohnArthurSpinks

Jay,

Jon Clulow is in Pasadena MD which is only a couple of hundred miles from you and maybe if you send me your email address I could on forward it to him and maybe he could help out with advice etc as he has an absolute magnificent C10.

cheers

John S

Aussie C9 Chrysler Airflow Coupe

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Hello John, Thanks for your reply I need to get the gas tank out so I can get a better idea of how things were when new. I have the body manual and owner's manual ordered along with a new accelerator pedal, pedal pads and a shift boot so I'm committed to getting it on the road.

I'm including a photo of the trunk area, the two adjustable straps visible seem to be fine. I was referring to straps that are welded between the inner fender and the arched channel coming from the roof they are barely visible on the photo but are located just above the intersection of the cross brace, just about where my electric cord intersects the arch. There is one on each side and measure approximately 1/16" by 2". These straps are no longer one piece they were snapped or broken but not rusted. They should be visible on the 36 by just removing the trunk liner, duh I just now thought of that. I want to get some measurements before I start to tie things back together.

I won't be doing anything in a hurry it is cold and I don't like turning on the heat. By Spring I should have a pretty good idea what needs to be done.

I have also included a picture of the mat that was located behind the trunk lining way back there. Was this area for tool storage?

And check out the fender installation! All fenders are banged up but the left front. And if you read my posts you know I want to drive it as it looks I won't be making it beautiful as you do in your restorations.

Thanks,

Jay

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Guest JohnArthurSpinks

Hi Jay,

The small extension bracket that spans from the main super structure across to the inner fender well on each side was not connected on the Airflows but i cannot confirm if that was the case on all.

The 1935 SG Desoto Airflow that we are currently restoring for a client has the same brace and it is oxy flame cut through in the exact same way as that in your C2.

I will attempt to attach a number of photos to support my statement.

It is extremely unusual but it appears that the main super structure rails somehow missed the boat and were some 10 to 15 mm further in than they had originally designed them to be.

Really it probably meant that one of the design engineers or architects probably were docked 10 cents out of their salary for screwing up.

Man I guess you are discovering the inner secrets of an Airflow, and it is nice to note that a pair of very keen eyes are looking at this beast very closely

Enjoy the challenge

Cheers

John S

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Guest JohnArthurSpinks

Jay,

A further try on photos so am going to try one at a time as they maybe to big for this thing to handle what I want to upload

JS

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Guest JohnArthurSpinks

Jay ,

This system would have to be the most unfriendly system I have ever come across.

Please send me you private email address and i will forward photos to you that way. At least I am assured that you are going to get them

John S

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yes John mine have a gap about that amount and it scared me. I'm going to pull the trunk lining out of the 36 to get a good look at things. I'll take my camera and get some good photos instead of my phone photos. I was lifting on on the rear corner of the C-2 trying to decide if flexing or bending was going on, it was a very crude experiment with nothing to report.

I was on a mission today, when I got my AACA magazine I started going through it back to front. One of the first things I see is a 39 Chrysler 8, rebuilt, $400.00. I couldn't get to the phone quick enough thinking for sure I was going to get a "sorry it's sold". Today I picked it up, (had to drive about 500 miles with the first 40 miles on snow covered roads) but it has a perfect exhaust manifold. I didn't get to really check the engine yet I got home in the dark and the engine is still in the back of the truck, but the manifold rode inside with me. It's like winning the lottery!

The 39 C-23 engine has the different style water pump.

Can this engine fit in the engine bay of the airflow with this style pump? Hopefully the C-2 aluminum head proves to be usable and I believe from what I read it should fit the 39 engine. I read the article on how to modify a newer head if the C-2 head is no good. I should be able to configure any special piping as I was once a pipe fitter.

Will I be able to mount the Airflow dampener and fan from the C-2 engine to the crank of the newer engine?

That's all I'm going to ask now because I don't want you to get mad at me!

Thanks,

Jay

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Guest JohnArthurSpinks

Jay,

The C23 engine block would fit into the C2 but only after many changes were undertaken.

The engine bell housing / clutch housing would require swapping and maybe you may have troubles tyrying to get the starter motor to fit as I think that the C23 has a full length water jacket and its starter motor solenoid was rotated away and down from the upright position as per the C2.

Also remeber that the electrics on the C23 are Autolite and on the C2 they are Delco Remy.

The front of the engine is different on the C23 as it had a water distribution tube in behind an adaptor plate at the rear of the water pump.

I dont think that you can swap over pumps.

Also if the C23 were to fit it would be very tight between the pump pulley and the C2 radiator cross bar support.

The front engine mounts are different and you would have to remove the front of the C2 and take the engine plate adaptor off from behind the cam wheel and swap everything onto the C23.

The C2 head will fit on but if you elect to keep the C23 head then the top outlet must be blocked off at the head and a side outlet cut into the C23 head.

The C23 head has higher comp than the C2 head and this increases its performance no end.

The oil pans are different and whilst they will fit either engine I think that you may find that the oil pickup in the crankcases are totally different and would require reconfiguring.

Let me know how you are going with it and sorry for the delayin getting back to you

Cheers

John Spinks

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John I appreciate your time and can understand a delay, That's a lot of information! There is more to consider than I realized. Live and learn, I have only dealt with our 48 and 50 New Yorker eights and was surprised to see a few changes in the block between those years and also found there are a few different solenoid configurations. I will continue to study the rust issues in the rear and think about the engine in the front.

Thanks again,

Jay

PS When it comes time to remove the head, is it going to be a bugger? I've been soaking it with penetrating oil regularly and don't expect to even try to remove it for a while. I know aluminum doesn't seem to get along well with other metals.

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PS When it comes time to remove the head, is it going to be a bugger?

Probably. I am waiting with interest to see how you get on. My SE six has an alloy head which has never been off. It may need it one day and I am not looking forward to that.

Getting it off is one thing. Removing it without wrecking it in the process is another! I suspect that there will be corrosion between the head studs and the head itself. I presume that the cylinder head gasket will ensure that breaking the seal at the face should be no more difficult than with other engines.

One option might be to remove the engine and strip the bottom end (it needs it anyway) then use a length of timber to knock the head from up the bores.

Once the head nuts are loose, i would soak them further, then replace the nuts loosely and knock the studs side to side to free the corrosion. Ultimately, it would be better to sacrifice the studs, but drilling them away would be a pain.

Good luck!!

Adam..

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Guest JohnArthurSpinks

Hi Jay,

The alloy head can be problem to remove but what you can do is remove the spark plugs and knock the porcelain centres out, grind off the grounding electrode and then purchase a few 6" long allen headed high tensile bolts and nuts of a size that will just fit up through the hole in the threaded section of the plugs.

Insert a bolt through the plug body from underneath and whilst holding the bolt up screw the plug home into the head and nip it up.

Do this in about 4 places like numbers 1,3,5 & 7 plug holes.

Dont be concerned about the bolts dropping into the cylinders as this wont happen as the plugs are over the valves not the cylinders.

DONT ROTATE THE CRANK.

Purchase a piece of square thick wall tubing that is about as long as the head and drill a hole in the middle for an eye bolt.

Drill corresponding holes in square tube that match the spark plug centrelines and assemble the square tube over the 6" long bolts and evenly tension up the nuts.

Use an engine crane on the eye bolt and pull some tension on the bar so as to try to lift up head.

If it doesnt come off immediately leave it hanging on the hook for a while with penetrating oil around stud holes.

DO NOT remove the head nuts just undo them all even amounts so that if head does lift it wont cock and wedge itself.

You may find that as the plug holes are offset across the head from the centreline the head may lift more on right side (your passengers side in USA) than the left so tension may have to be lert off the engine crane and the head knocked down a little with a rubber or wood mallet.

I used this setup to get a frozen head off a C11 Airflow Limousine and this one took 3 days to remove.

Finally the allen headed screws are suggested as they have a round head that fits into the plug holes perfectly as they are no bigger than the plug thread diameterand furthermore you can get them in grade 10 so they are very high tensile and wont snap.

Cheers

John Spinks

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Guest JohnArthurSpinks

Jay,

One further thing that will help is once the head has lifted insert sof wood vee shaped wedges between the head and the top of the engine block however this method can only be used on the left side only as a wedge on the right side could hit any open inlet or exhaust valve and they bend easy.

Make wedges with a rather broad angle like say 45 degrees.

Cheers

JS

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Thanks again John, I am going to have to ask yes and no questions. I appreciate you sharing your experiences even though it takes a page of typing to answer my questions. I can picture exactly the spreader bar I'll need to fabricate from your description and will heed your other suggestions.

Adam, I'll post photos of my progress.

Thanks,

Jay

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