Jump to content

1952 Chrysler Saratoga


Ronnie

Recommended Posts

Hi guys,

I'm usually in the Buick Reatta forum but I'm here seeking information about this Chrysler that is owned by an elderly friend. He is needs to sell it but doesn't know a where to start on pricing it. Below is what I know about the car. I have more photos if anyone wants to see them. Any information about the value of the car would be appreciated.

It's an all original, 1 owner, car that has been stored in an enclosed warehouse since 1965 by the original owner. It comes with the original owners manual, title and other documents.

It has the original V-8 Hemi engine and automatic transmission. It was running good when it was stored. The paint and interior are all original as well. The exterior is green with a cream top. I believe it was the last year for the flat, split windshield. The interior has green wool seats.

It has 77282 original miles. This would be a great car to restore. It has a great body with no damage that I can see. All the chrome (stainless?) trim is in good condition. The bumpers have some surface rust and would probably need to be re-chromed.

Thanks again for any help you can offer.

post-52331-143138746814_thumb.jpg

post-52331-143138746817_thumb.jpg

post-52331-14313874682_thumb.jpg

post-52331-143138746823_thumb.jpg

post-52331-143138746825_thumb.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

These are great driving cars; the 331 Hemi in the light Saratoga. Carl Kiekhaefer (NASCAR mid '50s) ran Saratogas in the Carrera Panamericana (Mex. Road Race) in 1952. The market is soft now of course but I'd say the $3500 suggestion is valid. They are only original once.

Tell us which transmission is in the car please.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for your replies and suggestions.

I don't know the model number of the transmission. I can tell you that it's an automatic with what I think he said was a safety clutch. I know it does have a clutch pedal. I believe I remember him saying it was a two speed and had a fluid coupling. I can find out details if needed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That car would have the "Fluid-Matic" Hi/Lo range M-6 transmission. If it was a New Yorker it could of had the "Fluid Torque Drive" same as the above but a torque converter replaces the fluid coupling for much better take off and acceleration.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the info. I appreciate it. Does that transmission diminish the value of the car?

I'd be surprised if the tranny would make that much difference in value. Yeah, fluid torque is a little more desirable than fluid drive. But, with a Saratoga vs. a New Yorker, the wheelbase is 6" less - 125.5" vs. 131.5" - and, as such, less weight, so that acceleration/performance may actually be superior with the Saratoga. It's not like either model is going to burn it up from a standing start. But, both will motor on down the road when they get all that weight rolling.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Fluid Drive was common on Chrysler products from 1939 to 1953. Pretty much all post war Chrysler Dodge and DeSoto cars had it.

Fluid Torque Drive was a more sophisticated version offered as an option from 1951 to 53. It does not add noticably to the value of the car although it does offer a little better performance.

To those not familiar with Chryslers the transmission may be offputting and reduce the saleability. Frankly the looks of the car are its biggest drawback. They were excellent, well made cars with many advanced features for their time but beautiful styling was not one of them.

An up to date price guide will help you put a value on the car. I have one but it is over a year out of date.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

An up to date price guide will help you put a value on the car. I have one but it is over a year out of date.
Thanks for all the comments. Would you mind looking up this car in the price guide you have. I would appreciate it. If you need more info on the car let me know and I will be glad to provide it.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi guys,

I'm usually in the Buick Reatta forum but I'm here seeking information about this Chrysler that is owned by an elderly friend. He is needs to sell it but doesn't know a where to start on pricing it. Below is what I know about the car. I have more photos if anyone wants to see them. Any information about the value of the car would be appreciated.

It's an all original, 1 owner, car that has been stored in an enclosed warehouse since 1965 by the original owner. It comes with the original owners manual, title and other documents.

It has the original V-8 Hemi engine and automatic transmission. It was running good when it was stored. The paint and interior are all original as well. The exterior is green with a cream top. I believe it was the last year for the flat, split windshield. The interior has green wool seats.

It has 77282 original miles. This would be a great car to restore. It has a great body with no damage that I can see. All the chrome (stainless?) trim is in good condition. The bumpers have some surface rust and would probably need to be re-chromed.

Thanks again for any help you can offer.

Man, that is a nice Chrysler. How in the world does a nice, running car less than 15 years old with less than a hundred thousand miles end up in enclosed storage for nearly 47 years? Since it supposedly ran when parked, I'm guessing it hasn't ran since then. Wonder if the engine is seized after 47 years of sitting? Does it have power steering?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is a very nice car but of course it will need resorting. It actually belongs to my cousin who is 84 years old. I just called him and asked why he had parked it and never drove it after that. The story he related to me was his wife had went to work for the local Buick dealer as their accountant. As an employee of the dealership they offered her a special deal on a Buick to encourage her to drive what they were selling but they didn't want to give them anything for it as a trade in. He said they made no bones about the fact that they didn't want a Chrysler on their lot. He had a truck that he drove all the time so he had no use for it himself. They decided that they would store it for a while until their daughter graduated and give it to her as a present. Once the daughter graduated she didn't want the Chrysler so they bought here a new GTO for graduation and the Chrysler has been parked in the warehouse of his business ever since.

He said it was running when he parked it and he would go out and start it from time to time before his daughter graduated to keep it in good running condition. After she decided she didn't want it, he lost interest in it and hasn't started it since. He said he has no idea if it will turn over or not.

He said he didn't think that it had power steering but thought it had power brakes. He just wasn't sure.

Thanks to everyone for you comments. I enjoy talking about this old car.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have a few m ore photos on my camera and decide I would post them before I deleted them. The photo of the turn looks like it's rusty but its just dirt on a rubber mat that is laying in there. I thought it was stored in 1965 but it looks like 1962 is the date on the license plate. It's amazing... the the key is still in the locking gas cap.

post-52331-143138749734_thumb.jpg

post-52331-143138749761_thumb.jpg

post-52331-143138749784_thumb.jpg

post-52331-143138749806_thumb.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is a very nice car but of course it will need resorting. It actually belongs to my cousin who is 84 years old. I just called him and asked why he had parked it and never drove it after that. The story he related to me was his wife had went to work for the local Buick dealer as their accountant. As an employee of the dealership they offered her a special deal on a Buick to encourage her to drive what they were selling but they didn't want to give them anything for it as a trade in. He said they made no bones about the fact that they didn't want a Chrysler on their lot. He had a truck that he drove all the time so he had no use for it himself. They decided that they would store it for a while until their daughter graduated and give it to her as a present. Once the daughter graduated she didn't want the Chrysler so they bought here a new GTO for graduation and the Chrysler has been parked in the warehouse of his business ever since.

He said it was running when he parked it and he would go out and start it from time to time before his daughter graduated to keep it in good running condition. After she decided she didn't want it, he lost interest in it and hasn't started it since. He said he has no idea if it will turn over or not.

He said he didn't think that it had power steering but thought it had power brakes. He just wasn't sure.

Thanks to everyone for you comments. I enjoy talking about this old car.

No doubt - that is a time capsule. I'm partial to Chryslers of this vintage - but the fact is that the sedans aren't worth much in the collector world. They are good old cars for someone wanting to enter the hobby as cheaply as they can. They perform just fine, very good braking system for their time. Well engineered, but plainly styled cars. I'm not far from Knoxville. I'll check around and see if I can help you get rid of it, but it's doubtful. What part of town is it stored in?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't mean to hog this post but look at this one for sale that is a real "Cream of the Crop" old ladys car- 20,490 miles. I met the grandson who inherited it and sold it to a guy I do work for , he sold it , it got sold again and ended up at one of our local hoser dealers.

The car is near perfect-including a mint mint steering wheel and upholstry and chrome. It's missing the bullseyes though-kinda odd?

It's in the east Seattle area!...1952 Chrysler Saratoga

post-62228-143138750543_thumb.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Old Cars Price Guide says #1 $19,500 #2 $13,650 #3 $8,780 #4 $3,900 #5 2,340 #6 $780

Will let you sort it out from there. Pricing a car like that can be tricky. It is obviously well preserved which adds to the value. But just putting a car like that back in commission can cost quite a lot. New tires, brakes, battery, etc can run into thousands of dollars in some cases.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Classic Lady Motors

Ronnie,

The fact that your car is a one owner and fully documented adds value for any serious collector. I would have the car professionally detailed and ask a minimum of 11500.00 if the car is in above average or average driver condition. If it clearly needs restoration (that can depend upon the desires of the buyer) then I would ask around 4500.00. Authentic survivor cars are becoming more desirable in the market, Mecum featured a Survivor Car seminar at Indy auction in May of 2011. I personally believe that rare 4 door cars will gain value in a few years as 1) a younger buying population is surfacing, more will include their families in their outings and 2), it stands to reason that 2 doors will be harder and harder to find over the years to come. Another desirable feature is the Hemi engine.

Auction results show:

August 2011 no sale @ 11,000.00 Mecum, an all original low mile "time warp"

2010 Silver Auctions, 12,000.00 no sale one owner, Hemi engine, condition 2.5 which means it is between these 2 condition ratings:

Excellent - Fully restored or an outstanding original. Has the appearance of a car only 1-2 yrs old, and Very Good - A typical newer car that you see driven daily on the street. From a distance of 15ft, only minor flaws are visible.

2010 Branson Collector car auction, sold at 10,530.00, one owner, fresh paint, 98k original miles

I am finding out in this buyer's market, no matter how well priced a car is, buyers generally want to negotiate lower. You can always go down on the price, but you can't always go up!

Hope this helps!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

#1 Excellent. perfectly restored show winner. The kind you only see at Pebble Beach

#2 Fine. near perfect restoration, or extremely well preserved original. The kind that wins blue ribbons at big shows. A normal person cannot tell a #1 from #2. Both these classes of car will be transported to shows in closed trailers.

#3 Very Good. Completely operable original or older restoration. Could be a combination of good amateur restoration and good original. May also be a partly restored car with all parts needed to complete the restoration including rare original parts and accessories.

A 20 footer that looks good from that distance but shows flaws when you examine it closely. Most of the cars seen at car shows are #3s. Your car would likely fall in this category after someone worked on it for a few weeks or months.

#4 Good. A complete drivable vehicle needing little or no work to be usable. Could be a poor looking original or a deteriorating restoration, or half completed restoration. Even from 20 feet you can see it needs work.

#5 Restorable. Needs complete restoration. May or may not be running but obviously needs major work. But not rusted out, wrecked, or stripped of parts to where it is no longer feasible to put it back in commission.

#6 Parts car. May or may not be complete but is weathered, rusted, stripped of parts or wrecked to where it would not be worthwhile to restore it.

Your car would likely be a #4 or #5 at the present time. It is unfortunate it is not a more popular model like a Chev or Ford or even a Buick. There are Chrysler enthusiasts around but they tend to be harder to find. Also it is hard to justify spending large amounts of time and money on a Chrysler as the value of even the best ones tends to lag behind. Plus for some odd reason, Chrysler fans don't seem to have a lot of dough. Have heard that in the fifties and sixties used car salesmen referred to Chryslers as a "poor man's Cadillac".

This is unjust and unfair. If you examine your Chrysler part by part and compare it to other makes including Buick you will find most parts look like they cost more to make than the competition.

Edited by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

#1 Excellent. perfectly restored show winner. The kind you only see at Pebble Beach

#2 Fine. near perfect restoration, or extremely well preserved original. The kind that wins blue ribbons at big shows. A normal person cannot tell a #1 from #2. Both these classes of car will be transported to shows in closed trailers.

#3 Very Good. Completely operable original or older restoration. Could be a combination of good amateur restoration and good original. May also be a partly restored car with all parts needed to complete the restoration including rare original parts and accessories.

A 20 footer that looks good from that distance but shows flaws when you examine it closely. Most of the cars seen at car shows are #3s. Your car would likely fall in this category after someone worked on it for a few weeks or months.

#4 Good. A complete drivable vehicle needing little or no work to be usable. Could be a poor looking original or a deteriorating restoration, or half completed restoration. Even from 20 feet you can see it needs work.

#5 Restorable. Needs complete restoration. May or may not be running but obviously needs major work. But not rusted out, wrecked, or stripped of parts to where it is no longer feasible to put it back in commission.

#6 Parts car. May or may not be complete but is weathered, rusted, stripped of parts or wrecked to where it would not be worthwhile to restore it.

Your car would likely be a #4 or #5 at the present time. It is unfortunate it is not a more popular model like a Chev or Ford or even a Buick. There are Chrysler enthusiasts around but they tend to be harder to find. Also it is hard to justify spending large amounts of time and money on a Chrysler as the value of even the best ones tends to lag behind. Plus for some odd reason, Chrysler fans don't seem to have a lot of dough. Have heard that in the fifties and sixties used car salesmen referred to Chryslers as a "poor man's Cadillac".

This is unjust and unfair. If you examine your Chrysler part by part and compare it to other makes including Buick you will find most parts look like they cost more to make than the competition.

I think Rusty's comments are spot on. As nice as this Saratoga is, it has to fall into the 4-5 category, especially if it is not running presently. The owner would probably be well advised to put some effort into starting the car to get an idea of what shape the engine is in. These cars are so well engineered for their time - it is such a shame the collector market has no love for them. I've mentioned this car to some folks around here, but haven't been able to spark any interest so far. Hope you're able to help the owner sell it. I'll keep spreading the word.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would be cautious about spending money on the car. It is very easy to spend more on mechanic's bills than you can get back. What good is it to spend $1000 if it raises the price $500? You would be better off to cut the price $500 and keep your money in your pocket. For most buyers a discount price speaks louder than words. I know a real sharp one is worth a lot more but it can cost a fortune to get there, and if you don't hire the right experts, they can actually cost you thousands and REDUCE the value of the car.

I'll never forget the owner of a 1956 Packard who got talked into replacing his engine with a junkyard Buick V8 by a local shop. Since he paid $3500 for the car and paid $4500 to have the motor put in, he figured his car was now worth $3500 + $4500 = $8000. He got sore as hell when I told him he had reduced its value to $2500.

So he put the car on Ebay. Top bid, $2200.

Have seen decent old cars repainted Chev pickup truck colors (close enough, and the shop had the formula handy). Reupholstered in fabrics more appropriate to a Chinatown tea room (you can't get those old fashion fabrics you know) wide white bias plys replaced with blobby radials that rub on the fenders ( bias ply tires are unsafe). Bad enough when the work has to be done over again and the money wasted, even worse when original parts are lost or destroyed.

Edited by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sorry about the above post, don't want to scare the hell out of you but would hate to see you waste your money too. Before you spend any money do a cost/benefit analysis and ESPECIALLY don't trust the job to the "lowest bidder".

On the other hand it can't hurt to give the car a good cleaning, wash and wax, vacuum the interior and clean the windows. Do not throw away any odd bits of metal or rubber, they may turn out to be hard to replace parts. Save everything in a box, it may come in handy later. Also save old road maps, drive in theater tickets, take out menus from 1958 etc. They don't mean anything but people feel good when they see them. There is something fascinating about such "souvenirs".

Go easy on the chrome, it was of poor quality that year due to the Korean war. The factory recommended washing with mild soap and a soft cloth. Finding any car with decent chrome from those years is rare. Oddly, the cheap cars have better chrome because it was stamped from stainless steel sheet. The expensive models had cast white metal trim, chrome plated, and by now it is usually full of pock marks if not crumbling to pieces.

Edited by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think he intends to do any restoration to the car. He just wants to get a fair price for it. I'm sure he would like to see someone get it that would put it back to the condition it was in when he parked it.

Thanks again for all the good information!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

don't touch anything. put it on ebay for 5000, you will get 3000 or more. too bad you don't have an interest in it as this is a beautiful driving car with the hemi. people would love this at car shows. i would buy this car in a minute for 3000 and have it running in one day. getting it on the road would take longer and some money, but the end result would be a beautiful survivor i would be proud to own. i already have 2 54 windsors, one a convertible, so i am not in the market. if this was closer, i would part with my sedan to have this. the transmission is all sealed so they rarely go bad. you really have a gem there so try to sell it to someone who will appreciate that fact. skyler

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...