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1951 WINDSOR DELUXE ?


lucky 69

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hi all,just got a 1951 chrysler windsor deluxe.drove by it for a while finnaly stop and look and got it .well back to my question's lol. ok the car is most there,just missing a little bit.ok looking for some trim parts- bottom rockers strip,rear trim strip, front fenders corners trim and fender windsor emblems.plus need brake light lens,front turn signal lens,back up light lens.i want to know were is a good place to find some of this stuff.i have been on ebay and google it but nothing good lead yet.ok part 2 of the question.what other cars interchange parts with this car ? this is the first one i have done so just wonder if anyone might know that has done one.:D oh ya looking for a ash tray too front dash and rear seat one to.the rear seat one is there but missing the tray itself. i had to get a tire on it when i brought it home flat ,i was told by the shop that they have right handed thread on the right side and left handed thread on the left side. never new that but nice to know now.:D ok hope im not loosing you guys and gals .was wonder if there is a manual for theses around . i know when i built my camaro i bought a build production book .was a good to have when i need to see were something was supposed to go .the car has the fluid amatic in it ,r,lo,n,dr thats new one to me to thats another reason why i need some sort of manual.well thanks for the help :D this is a great site !

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Edited by lucky 69 (see edit history)
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Hello Lucky 69, I have a nearly complete 51 Windsor Deluxe 4 door that I will probably never do anything with. If you are close enough to Eastern PA and would be interested in buying it I'll let it go for $500.00. It has been inside for the past 6 years and when I was under it to remove the radio antenna was surprised to find little rust. I don't have any good photos of it but I can try to get better shots, as you can see it is buried. The engine is free but I have never tried to fire it.

Jay

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Keiser, it looks like the 51 Windsor is on the far side of the Dodge with the hood raised.

Oh....got it. Yes, I do believe I blew it on that one. I thought he was talking about the green car. I saw the black car and at a glance, thought I saw the head of Hernando DeSoto on it's hood.

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The 51 is hiding behind the 50 Dodge, and the 50 Newport would miss me too much! I have too many cars and not enough indoor storage space. The 51 Imperial 4 door is going outside before winter, I'll have to take the good stuff off and store parts instead of the whole car. The building shown also has two 49 chevies in it a 4 dr. Fleetline and a convertible. The 51 4 dr. Imperial had Nevada plates, has air conditioning added that goes directly to the passenger side rear seat, and has a wide angle rear view mirror like I've seen advertised for racing, the people from whom I got the car said it belonged to Howard Hughes.

Anywho If someone needs a 51 Windsor Deluxe 4 dr. make me an offer.

Jay

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Hello Lucky 69, I have a nearly complete 51 Windsor Deluxe 4 door that I will probably never do anything with. If you are close enough to Eastern PA and would be interested in buying it I'll let it go for $500.00. It has been inside for the past 6 years and when I was under it to remove the radio antenna was surprised to find little rust. I don't have any good photos of it but I can try to get better shots, as you can see it is buried. The engine is free but I have never tried to fire it.

Jay

hi jazzer3,nice bunch of cars and love the rc plane to .were are you you in pa? i'm in brazil, indiana so not to far off. so the windsor you have motor is free moving right? how is the trunk lid? mine has a little dent around the handle area. been taking mine apart all this weekend .just seen your location i will send you a pm thanks.

Edited by lucky 69 (see edit history)
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To get back to the original question.

Roberts Motor Parts or Andy Bernbaum are leading dealers in vintage Chrysler parts. They will be able to help if anyone can.

For routine mechanical parts such as, brakes, tune up, fan belts, etc etc the local auto parts store can get them. NAPA is good, or find out where the local farmers shop. You want an old gray haired, or bald headed parts man who wil take the time to look things up.

The Fluid Drive trans is an unusual combination of a manual and automatic. it requires a certain driving technique. It is a very rugged, reliable transmission that seldom gives trouble. 9 times out of 10 if it does not work correctly it is the wiring or control system which is easy to fix once you know how.

If you do a search on the Chrysler board for Fluid Drive you will find some very informative threads if you go back to 2007 and 2008 there were some in depth discussions on the care and operation of this transmission.

The factory supplied every Chrysler dealer with excellent manuals. Thousands were produced and a lot of them are still around. They turn up at auto flea markets and on Ebay usually around $50-$100 for an original or as low as $20 for a reproduction. Have also heard someone is selling a version on CD on Ebay.

As far as interchange parts goes the motor was produced from 1937 to 1954 for Chrysler and DeSoto cars, till 1962 in Dodge trucks, till 1968 for military (Power Wagon, think of the ambulances on MASH) vehicles, and until 1972 for industrial and marine engines.

Transmsission, suspension, brakes etc were used by Chrysler and DeSoto 1939 - 54 more or less. Of course they made changes during this time but a lot of parts are the same for several years.

Body parts, your car debuted in 1949. 49-50 very similar to each other, in 1951 they got a face lift with new front sheet metal and rear fenders, 1951 and 52 practically the same except for tail lights and backup lights (they were separate in 51, together in one piece in 52).

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Incidentally your car will have the best version of the flathead 6, with full flow oiling system. Note the tower oil filter on the left side of the engine.

These engines are very smooth, quiet, and long lived with good power for all practical purposes. The cars are built for comfort not for speed. Put yourself in the frame of mind of a successful business or professional man of 1951. Picture yourself wearing a blue serge suit and a fedora hat. Get behind the wheel of your new Chrysler, one of the finest cars on the market. Now you are in the right frame of mind to do it justice.

You will find, if the car is in top shape, you have enough power to keep up with traffic and cruise along at up to 70 MPH, although you will be more comfortable at 60.

If it is not in top shape the motors are not very difficult or expensive to rebuild and all parts are available.

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Incidentally your car will have the best version of the flathead 6, with full flow oiling system. Note the tower oil filter on the left side of the engine.

These engines are very smooth, quiet, and long lived with good power for all practical purposes. The cars are built for comfort not for speed. Put yourself in the frame of mind of a successful business or professional man of 1951. Picture yourself wearing a blue serge suit and a fedora hat. Get behind the wheel of your new Chrysler, one of the finest cars on the market. Now you are in the right frame of mind to do it justice.

You will find, if the car is in top shape, you have enough power to keep up with traffic and cruise along at up to 70 MPH, although you will be more comfortable at 60.

If it is not in top shape the motors are not very difficult or expensive to rebuild and all parts are available.

well thank you for all the good info.i can see my wifes face when i go and get my suit and fedora hat and go out in set in it .got the suit just need the hat.as for the motor think its free but have not got that far.one thing i know that one of the spark plugs has rusted in to , so the bottom of it is stuck in the head .so hope the motor is free and a shop or me can get this out .i am planing on keeping the motor org as i can .planing to switch to 12 volt system maybe .just not sure .not worried about speed i got a camaro for that.i am going to rebuild the motor as long as it will move hopefully. what are your thought on switching to 12 volt ? thanks again for all your info .ya got to research the fluid amatic transmition

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It's good you know about the left hand threads on the left side, you should also know the electric system is 6 volt POSITIVE ground, this means the battery goes in "backwards".

The gearshift works like an automatic shifter but you have to lift the gear lever towards you to get into reverse.

well thats good to know to i didnt .thankyou man they did some very different thing when they made this one .i love it !

Edited by lucky 69 (see edit history)
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Lucky 69 You don't want to change to 12 volt if you intend to keep the original running gear. I've been driving 6 volt Chrysler products since 1972 and have never felt the need. It has been gone over many times on this site and the general consensus of those familiar with these cars will recommend not changing to 12 volt.

Jay

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Very difficult to change to 12 volt because of the electric control system of the transmission, also the radio is polarity and voltage sensitive.

Best to leave it 6 volts it will work fine for you if everything is up to specs.

The motor is not complicated or hard to fix but you have to know what you are doing. Do not mess with things or get ideas of your own, get a manual and go by that.

The spark plugs should come out. If they are real stuck you might need to heat with an acetylene torch. If you have to use an easy out the square ones are better than the screw shaped ones, heat the plug shell red and an easy out will get it every time.

If the engine will turn over it should run. I bet if I was there I could have it eating out of my hand in a few hours.

I would start by checking the gas tank, if it is full of old stinky gas disconnect the gas line at the fuel pump and plug it. Use a motorboat gas tank. Beware that modern alcohol bearing fuel will eat up the old fuel pump rubber parts, if it has not been replaced since gasohol came out in the 80s it will likely need to be before long.

Check the distributor, clean the white fur off the points with contact cleaner and drag a strip of white paper between the points. Clean the inside of the cap. Check if you are getting spark to the plugs.

Take out spark plugs and put a few shots of oil down the cylinders. Turn the engine by hand, if you can turn it 1 full turn without resistance try spinning it on the starter until oil pressure comes up. If it spins, and the plugs all fire, try putting the plugs in and pouring a little gas down the carburetor and fire her up.

If the carb will take gas, and it fires up, run it at a fast idle for 10 minutes and it will probably settle down and idle like a good one. O ya don't forget to fill the rad with water. And check the crankcase has oil.

If it runs you will be able to assess the engine's condition. Does it run smooth with no knocks and bangs? How is the compression? etc.

From there you can go on to test the brakes, transmission etc.

Top up the brakes with fluid before you step on the pedal. It could be it just needs fluid. But if you step on the pedal dry it will probably get stuck.

The brake cylinder is under the floor, there is a metal plate in front of the driver's seat held down by screws, roll back the carpet and there it is.

Like I said they are a well made car but they are different from newer cars in a lot of small ways.

Go ahead and ask if you run into a puzzle. Better to ask than mess something up, usually the answer is simple once you know it, like the left hand threads lol a lot of mechanics have busted off the wheel nuts just because they did not know.

Edited by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)
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well got the front dog house off today and on the bottom of the fenders i was cleaning the old grim and such .i noticed that some of what i thought was years of mudd and road grime at first looks like it was some sort of under coating i think? would this be true ? is it better to try and remove it by hand then clean it up and paint then re under coat it ? i know i could have it bead blasted off but dont want to hurt the fender's they in great shape .your opion please? i got a manual on order thanks to ebay.also if i keep it 6 volt the wireing is shot need's new.ive used painless wireing before but not sur eif they would have for this.what guage would i use ?i notice it has thicker wire than 12 volt systems do . i would love to dress up new wire to look like old wire,with the white cloth sleeveing .ok well on to the motor it is missing the starter.the car does have the genarator and the rest. but the plug wires and such are in bad shape .well there are 2 spark plug broke in the head .i grab on to the top of the wire to unhook it and they were already broke just rusted .i know i had to really turn on the rest to get them out.so i got 2 bottom in the head.i i have found another same flat 6 motor from a 49 pickup from the people i got the car from saved it after they scrap the truck .it was running before they took it out. wasnt to long ago ,so if i cant the plugs out i can use the head from it .once i see how everything looks on the inside of the one i got .i did stick a crow bar on to the fly wheel sence the starter is gone lol. and guess what the motor turns yaaaaaaaaa it turns so that's a good sign .so once i get it out and get into to it i can see how it is .ok another couple of questions, i would like to take the body off so i could paint the frame the right way i have a idea how to do it but what do you all suggest ?i don't have a lift in my shop.ok as for the brakes ,the parking brake work on and releases,but the pedal is froze as in it wont move .but i have not opened the plate to get to the master cylinder yet will tomorrow. ok if i leave it 6volt wonder how i could a cd player to work in it ?ok before shoot me .the orginal raidio will be in there and hopefully working .i mean i was going to hide a seperate cd player in it any ideas on how to get it to work with 6volt ? oh ya once the doghouse was off i got to look at the front end . neat design .with the coil springs and shocks should be not to hard to work on . the coil springs are not broke so should be good to go there. just got to go threw the rest of it .well all for know hope i don't loose ya all or bore ya well thankyou for all the info and help .:D oh ya on the fuel pump ,if i get a new one will it have the glass style bowl to? or is there a way to rebiuild the old and set it up to run on todays fuel? wasnt sure if they could be rebuilt, just like to keep the look of it plus it's easy to see if your getting fuel to.i never have rebuilt a flat head before but im up for it .i built the motor from ground up in my camaro so just hope it's not to bad to do .

Edited by lucky 69 (see edit history)
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Guest Bob Call

Lucky 69

Got to the Walter P Chrysler Club website. On there is a link to Chrysler Group archives. You can order reproduction owners and service manuals. Also with the car serial number you can order a build data card showing codes for how this car left the factory.

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Lucky 69

Got to the Walter P Chrysler Club website. On there is a link to Chrysler Group archives. You can order reproduction owners and service manuals. Also with the car serial number you can order a build data card showing codes for how this car left the factory.

wow thankyou for that info i will .i went to try and decode it and was lost to find anything on it .build data card would be good to have . thanks again:D

Edited by lucky 69 (see edit history)
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Will try to answer some of your questions if I can find them.

undercoating leave it alone if it is on good and not rusting underneath. they make special wire with the old fashioned cloth covering but new vinyl covered wire works just as well. 6 volts needs thicker wires than 12 volts especially important on battery cables. told you already you can get out broken plugs by heating red with a torch and use an easy out get the square kind. if the engine turns over there is a good chance you can get it running. lifting off the body is a big job suggest you leave it on the frame. parking brake is on back of transmission completely separate from service brakes. sounds like you need a complete brake job. you can get a small CD player/radio from Walmart for $29.95 and wire it to the 6 volt car system. it is 9 volt but will work fine on 6 volt .you can feed the signal into your tube radio amp stage. yes you can get a rebuilt fuel pump. you may want to remove and save the glass bowl filter when you send it in for rebuilding. the engine is simpler than a Chev V8 and not hard to rebuild. you will find a lot of parts are much better quality than Chev ever dreamed of. grease the front end it should be OK. you can check it out later. good luck are you having fun

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thank's Rusty_OToole,i will try to break questions up so there easy to find :D going to leave the car on the frame after looking at it yesterday .once up in the air i can get to all of it to clean and paint change body bushing's . got the chrome off of it exept for the windsheild and rear glass .got to wait to get the manual so i can see how there on there,clips i would imaged but better safe than sorry .it's in great shape. ya i will need a complete brake job ,but i planed on that. question 1. so i have the genarator so i should use it ? do i need to get it rebuilt? 2.on the front end i know the shocks need replace, so on the rest sence i don't have a manual is it just replaceing bushings ? just wondering wont be doing that untill i get a service manual so i can see how they say to service it .:D well all for know thanks again for the info. oh ya i am having so much FUN!!!! it's so good to have another car to redo .i wanted to find a coup but could not so that will be the next one down the line .

Edited by lucky 69 (see edit history)
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1 yes you should use the generator, you need it to charge the battery. There is a little oil cup with a lid at each end, give the bearings 2 or 3 drops of oil it should be OK if not you can worry about it later when you get it running. Do not put too much oil in, it can gum up the generator. 2 or 3 drops at each oil change is plenty.

2 the front end, you may not need to do anything. Get a grease gun and grease everything. if the fitting won't take grease put on a new fitting parts stores have them for pennies. Later on you can check it over for worn parts. Try to wiggle things around, they should not have any movement to them well maybe just a trace. if they are floppy they are worn out. If it has not been greased in years it may not want to take grease, grease it as good as you can then come back in a few weeks and try again. Sometimes you have to heat the joint to melt the old grease, before it will take grease.

Cars in those days did not have very precise steering. Even if the front end is perfect you can expect 4 to 6 inches of play at the steering wheel when stopped. Factory spec on a new car was 4 inches. If it gets to 1/4 turn you can start to worry lol.

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I wouldn't take off anything till I got it running. The rule is mechanical work first, then body and paint then upholstery, tires last.

Try to do one thing at a time and put that thing completely back together before you dive into something else.

Go over the car and clean it out, save any funny looking parts they may be part of the car even if the don't look like it, you can throw away the dried up ballpoint pens and McDonalds wrappers lol.

Make a list of repairs, start planning your work and getting parts then work on it one stage at a time. The best way to organize things and not over match yourself.

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thanks i agree make a plan ,mechanical work first, then body and paint then upholstery, tires last. i have a note book of missing stuff and list of things to do .i also have taken pics before and after and during anything that has been removed . :D one step at a time finish one before you go to the next thing on the list. i ask about the generator because i wasnt sure if i need to have it rebuilt or not ,also because i know some ive seen use a 6 volt alt instead of a gen . but i will use the generator keep it just like it came form the factory.i will oil it like you said ,it turns free and smooth.i have cleaned up the front parts, so tomorrow i will try to see if they will take grease or not .ya i can see most of the pieces much better now every thing is tight so that's good.ive been on vacation this week so have had some good time to do things with it .having a blast doing it .but back to work monday .:( lol but got to make money so i can drive her .ok well if i think of some more i will post and also i will post updates as i go threw her.thanks for all the help.:D

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Talking about the radio question...

Here is the kind of radio I was talking about

Coby Red CD Boombox - Walmart.com

Notice in the specs it says takes 6 C type batteries. 1 1/2 volt batteries X 6= 9 volts BUT it will work fine on 6 volts off your car battery.

Now this is not a great look for a 51 Chrysler but they make retro style too.

i was wondering when you said 9volt now i see :D

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1951 was the first year for power steering and Chrysler had it, the only car in the world to have this feature in 1951. No Cadillac, Lincoln, Rolls Royce or Mercedes only Chrysler.

Your car could have had it on the usual, optional at extra cost basis.

It was a system made by Gemmer. It had a special steering box with valves and hydraulics built in, plus a pump mounted on the back of the generator. I used to have a 52 New Yorker with power steering.

If you are thinking about installing power steering don't bother. If your front end is in good shape, and properly aligned you will never miss it.

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1951 was the first year for power steering and Chrysler had it, the only car in the world to have this feature in 1951. No Cadillac, Lincoln, Rolls Royce or Mercedes only Chrysler.

Your car could have had it on the usual, optional at extra cost basis.

It was a system made by Gemmer. It had a special steering box with valves and hydraulics built in, plus a pump mounted on the back of the generator. I used to have a 52 New Yorker with power steering.

If you are thinking about installing power steering don't bother. If your front end is in good shape, and properly aligned you will never miss it.

thankyou i thought chrysler was the first to have it.no i not thinking of installing power steering .i was just wondeing .good info to know .i wonder who was the mgf of it to,but now i know .i bet that was a heck of a boost for sales and for the industry too.well thanks again Rusty_OToole have a great week :D

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Lucky 69, I tried posting some photos last night but had a problem. Our 51 Windsor deluxe has the rear seat ashtrays mounted in each door panel, in the center of the front seat backrest there is a lighter recessed. I took the front seat ashtray from a 51 Imperial I think it is the same as the 51 Windsor. I should have the two rear seat ashtrays from the 51 Imperial but these ashtrays have their own lighter I would have to measure to see if they will fit in the same opening as your Windsor. I removed the rear seat ashtray from a 50 New Yorker it is a tan plastic box with a chrome lid and has the crown emblem, this mounts with two screws and a tab at the bottom that must be engaged by something inside the seat back. You are welcome to the front seat ashtray and you will have to let me know about the rear ashtrays. I had to crawl through the windshield opening of the Imperial to get the front ashtray will have to do the same to retrieve the rears this isn't easy with two replaced knees but I like a challenge, also had to remove a large colony of security hornets guarding garage door.

Last night I tried uploading 10 photos and it didn't work if you would like more photos let me know.

Heading to the shop now to finish installing radiator in our 52 Imperial, the radiator I removed has a leak where a tube in the middle row meets the bottom tank, this radiator has three rows of tubes. I was going to try and solder it but I don't know where to start, any advise from anyone, I'm a pretty good solderer just never fixed a car radiator

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thanks ,man that's one big security you have .good size nest hope they were not to bad to get out .the front ash tray look's like the right one .i just checked my rear in mine and the one you have is alot different .mine to like your 51 windsor has a ash trey in the back middle of the seat and the lighter is above it, in it's own recessed place by it's self.also the ashtray area in mine is alot smaller than the 52 Imperial .so thankyou very much for going threw all the trouble to check for me .i will send you pm on the other ashtray so check your pm when you can .good luck on the radiator i have not done one either .i wish i could help ya more on it .thats prob all it needs just a good solder on it .is that the original radiator in that one ?:D

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  • 2 weeks later...

Thanks rusty,I did look threw the whole car and didn't find it.I called him the other day and he didn't have it either. So the hunt goes on

C49er thanks for the info. Ya I did notice it .didn't slide to good. So I will greese the slide part thanks for the info on it.

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Paint it with rustproof paint like Rustoleum. 2 coats minimum. That is all you need. If you are rich use POR 15.

If it is the thick tarry undercoating and you want to replace it to keep it looking original try roofing tar in the gallon can.

ok thanks sounds good i was just looking at por 15 online and rust bullet to.they are a little pricey .ok so roofing tar is what they used back in the day at the factory ? well i thought just to paint it but wasnt sure on the protection .

Edited by lucky 69 (see edit history)
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I don't know what they used at the factory. If you mean what I think you mean, it was a thick sound deadening tar. By the way, the factory did not undercoat the whole car. They just put some sound deadening in the doors, trunk, in the middle of big panels to stop drumming. If the whole car is undercoated it was done after the car was sold.

You should not need any undercoating for protection if it is painted.

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