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1910 Mitchell Oiler question


JV Puleo

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I am just beginning to rebuild the engine of my 1910 Mitchell Model T (4 cyl). I have had a fair amount of brass car experience (albeit years ago) but I've never come across this problem before.

The Mitchell has a 6-station oiler. Its operation is fairly obvious and simple, its an external pump that delivers oil to the cylinders, main bearings and timing gears. My question is, does the oil return? If so, how? I could well be missing something. The engine has been apart and has the look of having been hastily reassembled in order to sell the car. But never having seen one before, I can't really tell. Its hard to imagine it is a total loss system as late as 1910... Also, it has a fairly large crankcase but no sight gauge or level plug, nor does it have ports that would allow you to look into the crankcase so I can't see how you were supposed to check the level.

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It is a total loss system. Anything with a gravity or forced (pressure or pump) oiler with a filler cap is a total loss oil system. Most will retain some oil in the pan or bottom of the crankcase but it does not return to the oil tank.

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I hadn't thought of stand pipes. There are 2 drains in the pan, one at the front and the other at the rear. In both cases the plugs, petcocks etc are missing but 2 stand pipes would make sense.

Thanks, JVP

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  • 2 weeks later...

Thank you, Thats very interesting. Can I ask what the drill is regarding oil? Do you fill the oiler and then check it every so many miles? I have to say that even though the oiler seems to be in excellent condition, I'd feel more comfortable with some oil splashing around inside the crank case. Or does that happen in any case? What do you do about draining the used oil? The Mitchell has two drain plugs in a trough at the bottom of the sump. It may have had stand pipes too but the plugs are missing so I'm not sure what was included. It also has a plug in the front of the crankcase about 3" up from the bottom which looks to me as if its intended to be opened occasionally so that excess oil can drain out. But, again, I'm not certain.

In a week or two I'll have the engine out and on a stand I built. Its a rotating stand so I can examine everything from every angle.

JP

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There should be a hand pump somewhere in the system, there usually is.

Starting with the oil tank or reservoir full, and the crankcase empty give it a pump to fill the crankcase. You can check the standpipes as above to see how much oil it takes to replenish the crankcase.

Regulate the drip feed as necessary. I was told that there should be little or no smoke under normal driving but if you open the throttle suddenly there should be a puff of smoke as you take off.

Under hard driving, such as climbing a long hill or high speed you can give the motor an extra half pump every 10 miles.

Every thousand miles drain the crankcase and replenish with the hand pump.

This was what I was told to do on a Harley Davidson motorcycle with a similar system. It had an oil feed pump which had to be adjusted to feed the right amount of oil, but no return pump. Excess oil burned off past the rings or dripped out a hole to lube the drive chain.

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No doubt you have to use your common sense. I was not suggesting a Harley Davidson and a Mitchel car are the same. But if the oiling system works on the same principal then experience of one may throw some light on the other.

If the car owner has no experience of total loss oiling he may need some reassurance that the system works well if you operate it correctly.

Would also suggest that in 1910 cars were something new and not many people knew how to operate them. Therefore, the manufacturer was obliged to make the operation as simple as possible. The oiling is probably simple to manage once you know how it is done.

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Thank you, Thats very interesting. Can I ask what the drill is regarding oil? Do you fill the oiler and then check it every so many miles? I have to say that even though the oiler seems to be in excellent condition, I'd feel more comfortable with some oil splashing around inside the crank case. Or does that happen in any case? What do you do about draining the used oil? The Mitchell has two drain plugs in a trough at the bottom of the sump. It may have had stand pipes too but the plugs are missing so I'm not sure what was included. It also has a plug in the front of the crankcase about 3" up from the bottom which looks to me as if its intended to be opened occasionally so that excess oil can drain out. But, again, I'm not certain.

JP

The oiler will typically hold 50, 100, or 150 miles worth of oil, but that will vary depending on the drip rate adjustment. I suggest you find an owners manual to find out how to adjust the drip rate or rates. I'm not familiar with the Mitchel oiler but some cars have one port to adjust and some have multiple ports that are adjusted at different rates. If you have more than one drain plug, then you have separate oil troffs that must be drained.

The plug about 3" up the side of the crank case is your "dip stick." Some cars have plugs and some will have a petcock there. Open the plug (petcock) and fill the crank case with oil until oil comes out the plug and you know it is full. Some manuals will simply tell you to open the plug and fill the crankcase every day before use or every so many miles.. There is usually no way to tell how much oil you have in the cc, you only know when you fill it up. I suspect that since you have a plug, you only need to fill the cc after draining it and not daily. (I would also check it if it has sat for a long time) There should be a breather cap or another larger plug higher up to remove for filling.

You may have a glass "site gauge" on the dash. That does not indicate oil level, it indicates that the pump is working and there is "some" oil circulating when the engine is running. Generally, if you have a site gauge, you do have a circulating pump that pumps oil back to the oiler tank, but you will still have high oil loss in the system and you will have to refill the tank.

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Guest cben09

My 1916 White had a 2 glass drip on dash,1gal tank on firewall and was total loss,,No recirculation,,Pull nob to drain excess,,or just lett'er smoke,,Cheers,,Ben

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Another thought came to mind today as I was getting ready to go for a short ride in the Hupp.The main center bearing in the Hupp has no pass thru holes for the oil, so cyls. #1&2 have their own sump, as do #3 & 4. An oil line to each, and a petcock for each.So it would be a good idea to check.

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"The drill" on my 13 Buick is as follows:

I have a sight glass on the dash and it drips every 10 - 15 seconds. When the fresh oil sump near the top of the engine gets a quart low, I fill it with 30WT oil. Then I take the empty oil container and drain the used oil from the four sections of the lower crankcase (Oil Pan) via the four petcocks provided for that purpose. I use the used oil only for my oil can oiler or other shop uses.

There are also four plugs in "the oil pan" that drain the oil channels, but I never drain the channels.

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Were it not that the engine has been apart and all of the oil lines are simply missing I think it would be a lot simpler to figure out... as it is all of this has been useful and given me some good ideas on how to proceed. I should have the crankcase out of the car soon, maybe this weekend, and up on its stand. I'll post some pictures.

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