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Antique car registration in Pennsylvania


mrcvs

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Anyone else had trouble dealing with getting antique plates in this state?

Namely, they want cars that are in showroom condition, so if you have an antique vehicle in need of painting, they will give you a hassle. Why should I be required to paint a vehicle with its original paint to comply with the bureaucracy.

And, I originally did submit four photos and they rejected my application saying I did not submit 4 photos. They lost them, but where did they go? Then when you call down to Harrisburg, they FAILED to record any data in their system, so there is NO record of an application for a title, the reason why it was rejected, etc.

Yet another reason I'll ultimately bail out of this state and go back to Virginia. (On that note, does anyone have an original 1917 Virginia license plate they'd like to sell?)

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Just got my antique plates for the Chrysler. Not a bit of a problem at a VERY reasonable price for plates that never expire. In the past I've gone personally to the DMV in Harrisburg. Very efficient office and I walked out with my antique plates in hand in about an hour. I think they are a bit picky about condition to weed out the folks that are looking to register a beater daily driver as an antique. Moving because you don't care for a DMV process seems kind of absurd especially since VA now tacks on civil penalties to traffic fines that range up to $3000 with an additional yearly "points" tax to the good folks of VA who have points against thier license. BTW none of this applies to PA, or other, out of state drivers. Ya'll be careful now. heah............bob

Edited by Bhigdog (see edit history)
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I have never had a problem either, but I always go directly to the PENNDOT building in Harrisburg.

It took me 15 minutes when I switched my BMW from a regular plate to the Classic plate. I hand carried in 4 photos, the old plate, the old registration card, and the title.

I agree with Bob in that they may be getting a bit tougher weeding out beaters, and I have wondered how this could affect someone trying to register an HPOF that may have a questionable paint job. When I got the Classic plate for the BMW back in 2005 they did look at the photos very closely.

I don't believe you can beat the cost of the PA antique plates, but I must say I do not like the looks of the new style Antique plates over the older purple plates. X your fingers the PA Senate passes the Year-of-Manufacture (YOM) bill.

If they pass the YOM bill I plan on switching my 33 Chevrolet over to 1933 YOM plates and using the purple plate on my BMW since the YOM bill only include up to 1975.

Visit my website at: Bob's Vintage Cars

Vila

1933 Chevrolet

1962 Triumph TR4

1984 BMW 633 CSi

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No, I never got the plates. The state ought to use common sense here.

I was in Virginia for many years and am actively seeking employment there again, so it isn't like I'd be leaving just for the lack of Antique plates, but it's just another reason to dislike Pennsylvania (or like Virginia) even more. I guess I'm just a Virginian at heart, more or less.

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Guest Siegfried

I hope I'm not to out in never-never land with this suggestion, but perhaps the AACA leadership should get involved with PaDOT so the folks at PaDOT might get an understanding of HPOF in regards to antique plates.

I know the antique car world has a few state lawmakers who like us

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Agree with you, Siegfried. PaDOT ought to be much more sensible. They want cars in new, showroom condition, which is often not the case! What do we do then to have a voice and be heard? This car clearly is not for daily use and completely open to the elements.

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Guest Siegfried
Agree with you, Siegfried. PaDOT ought to be much more sensible. They want cars in new, showroom condition, which is often not the case! What do we do then to have a voice and be heard? This car clearly is not for daily use and completely open to the elements.

Under the following topic in the Legistation Forum was some information that might be of use.

TOPIC: 'PA Residents! Good news' <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

We have an AACA member in the Pa. House. Rep. John Lawrence.

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Hi All....

Dealing with PennDot is always an adventure. You never know what they will look at and react too.

A few years back I was denied antique plates for my 1926 Star touring. The reason, a 3 inch tear in the back roof panel. No reasoning with them. So some duct tape inside and a little touch up with a black marker and I had my plate.

Just transferred a 1908 Buick from Texas to Pa. Sent in all paper work in April, just got the plate and title last week.

Last time I questioned about historic preservation, the answer was it must be restored to Hershey standards.

It's a shame a state with as much antique car hobby activity as PA, is soo hard to deal with .......

Frank

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A few years back when I went to register my Hotshot the first time, I was rejected because I didn't have side windows (in a roadster) and hubcaps. Last year when I went to register the Convertable coupe, I went to the hardward store and bought some plexiglas which I cut for side windows and used some duct tape to put some hubcaps on for the pictures. I also touched up all of the scratches in the red paint with Rustoleum. Finally I put on a hand operated windshield wiper to eliminate that question. The result was that the car went through with flying colors!!!

Bigdog is right about the bargain for permanant plates and no inspection. I do wish the process was a little easier. I can't see any reason the Maxwell would have been rejected by a sensible reviewer. I see this all too often when dealing with a government that hires the least qualified (ie lowest acceptable grade) person who bids on a job.

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What you're running into is a DMV wonk who wouldn't know a real antique car if it came up and bit them in the pants. All they can see is the "guideline" in front of them and in the interest of job preservation they deny the plates to a car like this Maxwell, because it is not "restored" and shiny and perfect.

I'm glad Virginia is not quite as anal as PA in this respect, but I do wish they'd tighten up on antique plates a little, AT THE DMV. VADMV will accept almost any antique/ YOM plate application, and will often ask someone registering a 25+ year old car if they know their vehicle is eligible for those plates. Eligible for them age-wise and qualified for them are two different things.

That brouhaha we went thru a couple of years ago of having to supply a notarized document verifying that we had a modern regular plated vehicle to drive was a load of hooey, pure and simple, as DMV had all that information in their database. It was obviously designed more with revenue in mind than actually getting questionable antique plates off the road.

So, instead of forcing DMV workers to do their job and filter questionable antique plate applications, the legitimate old car owners were punished and for all practical purposes fined for having their ducks in a row and their cars licensed and operated per the statutes.

I have still not forgotten or forgiven that, and with the new redistricting, either address I'm at is in the district the legislator who sponsored that mess represents. I will use that to my advantage come election time.

And I still see too many antique/YOM plates on Virginia cars that are not qualified to wear them, so their revenue scheme has had little if any effect on the problem.

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Guest Siegfried
Hi All....

Last time I questioned about historic preservation, the answer was it must be restored to Hershey standards.

It's a shame a state with as much antique car hobby activity as PA, is soo hard to deal with .......

Frank

These two statements say it all when it comes to PaDOT's attitude at times towards our hobby.

It is truly amazing to me that with all the old car activity within mere miles of Harrisburg that this poor treatment is deposited upon our hobby be a few brain dead PaDOT employees. The Pa. Secretary of Transportation should be made aware of this as should your district representative and senator. I let mine know. At the very least you'll feel better for getting the problem known.

A major problem is the lack of knowledge of PaDOT employees. They simply don't know, and if you try to explain they get all steamed, and give you the 'You Can Kiss My xxx Attitude'. I ran into this twice, and the second time I went looking for a manager. I left with my plate. The car in question was an original condition '77 AMC Hornet with a mere 32,000 miles. The year was 2002. The initial reason for denial was that I admitted that the Hornet was not restored. It did not, and does not need to be. It's not perfect, but it is original. Look for it in HPOF in 2012.

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PennDOT is full of government LOSERS! Okay, so what would you do if you were me? They lost my original photos, said they need four more, and gave no explanation as to why my application was rejected. The notary told me even before I submitted my application that I would probably get rejected as the car was not in showroom condition. You call these LOSERS and they have no record of you even applying, they really don't care about you at all, and this is after waiting on hold for an incredibly long period of time. It's nice that my tax dollars are being put to good use.

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Antique Motor Vehicle - A motor vehicle, but not a reproduction thereof, manufactured more than 25 years

prior to the current year, which has been maintained in or restored to a condition, which is substantially in

conformance with manufacturer specifications.

The above is cut and pasted directly from the PADOT web site. It appears the intension of the legislators was to provide low cost plates to cars that could be considered show type vehicles. At least that's what the wording implies.

Now don't shoot the reporter..........BUT..........it would appear from your pix that the paint on the Maxwell would not meet the manufacturer's spec when new.

Disclaimer..........I don't agree with the law since the Maxwell certainly appears to be a fine example of an antique car but evidently what the lawmakers had in mind is not offering plates to "any" antique car but rather "show type" antique cars............Bob

Edited by Bhigdog (see edit history)
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PennDOT is full of government LOSERS!

20 years ago when I was working for the PA-DER we used to feel sorry for PENNDOT workers. Their working conditions were deplorable, the personnel practices so arcane that promotions routinely meant a severe pay cut, and the pay structure was so abominable in the first place that union reps were experts in helping employees apply for food stamps. For instance positions that required a college degree generally paid $6.50-$7.00/hr. to start at a time when the minimum wage was $4.25/hr.

Those LOSERS are dealing with worse than you. It's amazing to me they get anything done. And you can bet that some yutz will be in the PA legislature tomorrow trying to cut their budget even more. That'll help.:rolleyes:

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You may have a problem with getting through the regular PA inspection with the Maxwell. Depending on the inspection station/mechanic you might well be failed due to not having adequate lighting (i.e. stop and/or turn signals). I've seen it happen. I've never tried it, but I have heard of people submitting photos of a similar car, but in "restored" condition with their application. I'm not reccommending it, but I know of at least one instance in which this was done due to exactly this scenario. This whole situation is one of the most ridiculous issues with PENNDOT. It's just another example of uninformed government legistlating something that they don't understand to begin with! I agree with the previous poster that AACA really needs to form a committee to work with PENNDOT (and any other state's DOT) to try to educate these public servants about our hobby. The sad but true issue, as I've found out through personal experience with PENNDOT, is that we don't really represent a significant number of votes, or income to them, compared to other groups. These folks, in the majority, are mostly interested in keeping their jobs (aka "CYA") or getting re-elected. The other issue with PENNDOT, and many other states as well, is getting title to an early car (mostly pre-teen era vehicles) when you have a car that never had a title to begin with. We went through this situation some years back with a car (1904) that had been sold new in PA, had never left the state, and was acquired from the original owner's family. PENNDOT insisted that they would not issue a title unless we had a legal title from the previous owner. I tried to explain that it never had a title because PA didn't issue titles when this car was new, and didn't even have registration until 1906. It didn't matter to them. Their stock response was "that's the rule and there's nothing we can do about it"). They couldn't care less and had no suggestion as to what could be done to resolve the issue. We ended up selling the car to an out of state buyer just to be rid of the problem. Good luck.

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Okay, something needs to change in this ridiculous state! This car has two headlights, one rear light, NO turn signals, mechanical brakes, etc. It is what cars had in 1917 and it would not conform to 2011 standards for inspection purposes. So, classic and collectible plates are really not an option. The collectible description on form MV-11 even says that cars must appear to be in 'show' condition. I think that if a car is over 50 years old, it should automatically qualify for antique status, and no additional questions asked by PennDOT. Right now, I can see I pay state income taxes to incur nothing other than headaches and hassles.

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Guest Siegfried

Dave@Moon, You are well-versed on the history of PaDOT. I was in line for a job there in 1977 in Information Systems. I turned it down because it paid several thousand less year then did the business I went to work for. I was amazed. However, 10 years go I was at PaDOT as an I.S. consultant, and did note that conditions are very much different. I really missed the people when my contract ended. I made a few friends.

Government is a difficult environment to work in as are most big business environments. The people in the licensing division have a set of rules that they must follow, and as I mentioned earlier the rules should be changed for unrestored original vehicles. Perhaps Y.O.M. license plates will do the job.

Write/contact your Representative and Senator, and express yourself so maybe they can make, or start a change.

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Guest Siegfried
The general fund provides provides less than 1.5% of PennDOT's budget.

2009 PennDOT Annual Report

I forgot to add on my previous response. You are correct. PaDOT is almost self-supporting. Probably one of the few if not the only state agency that is.

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