1913 Metz 22 - Our first project

If you'd called him Spruce, now THAT would go against the grain!....

Wow. I "wooden" have used such a bad pun!! But, I "SAW" it coming. Shame on "Yew."

Well, guess I'm just being a pain in the ash with my puns. I should leaf it alone, guess I'm a sap.

Back to subject matter, often the wooden trim on an early car body was actually split (half round) reed....

OUCH!! I can't take any more PUNishment. We should "stick" to the subject at hand and not "branch" out into topics that could "splinter" the group. That would "knot" help any of us. Oh, and thanks for the info on the trim. I'll reed up on it.

Sorry I missed the fun with the puns.

Still making progress... I finished one of the panels that make up the 'trunk' area in the back. This piece has an interesting construction. It uses 1 1/2" x 7/8" boards to build a frame. The interior, however, is a sheet of steel that slides into a groove cut in the middle of the frame boards. I guess that was the reason for using 7/8" thickness on the frame boards. I built the frame as originally constructed. I used a 3 wing slot cutter to put the groove on the interior frame boards. I decided to prime the sheet of steel before assembly. I also filled the groove with a flexible sealant before as well. I glued it all up and I'll add the screws in the corner later. Final picture shows the panel in place.

The last panel that completes the trunk is curved and follows the curve on the sides. I'll need to bend the back frame pieces. My first go at this was a complete failure. I think I'm going to switch to another type of wood because I'm not sure the oak is going to handle this very well. I think I could steam it for the next year and it would still snap.

Pat, I'm sure you'll have a good suggestion as to what would be best for bending. Also... a Black Cherry tree fell on our house last week. No real damage to the house and I'll be taking the wood to the gent that sawed up my oak. I'll be looking forward to it getting out of the kiln!!

Jeff, Have you thought of a curved lamination like you see on some chairs sometime. They are extremely rigid.

I have some steam-bent oak that might fit your trunk. They are 3.75" wide and 14.5" long. I have two pieces. Check the photo to see if the radius might work.

Phil

That looks really close. 14.5" is certainly long enough and 3.75" wide is enough to do both. I'll shoot you an email. I wonder how I would cut the groove in that since it is curved???

I have some steam-bent oak that might fit your trunk. They are 3.75" wide and 14.5" long. I have two pieces. Check the photo to see if the radius might work.

Phil

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The groove could be done with a router.

I used a 3 wing slot cutter on my router on the other piece. I didn't realize they made a straight bit so small, but now that you mentioned it... I see a couple that would work great. Thanks Pat!

I've been a little busy, but I did get the bent wood from Phil and it is a perfect fit. Many thanks to him. I hadn't even noticed that the back was curved at a radius and I cut several of them! I'm looking for a straight bit as Pat suggested and when I get that I should be able to put the back half of the trunk together.

I can't believe it has been nearly a year since I've posted an update. I have made a little progress but it has become obvious that this just isn't the right "season" of my life to be working on the car. I do get the occasional day in the shop to play around but priorities are elsewhere for now.

The Wife and I did drive up to Hershey and I met with a fellow AACA member and we swapped some more parts. I think I now have all the drivetrain parts. I sent one of the cracked bearing cases off to Cattail foundry and I got back some new castings. I'm very, very pleased with the results. I took those new castings and some other parts to a local machine shop and three months later I still don't have them back. I'm sure they will get around to them one day.

I built a media blasting cabinet because blasting outside was such a pain. I decided to make the cabinet a double wide such that it would be able to handle all the chassis parts. I got a bunch of great parts for it from TPTools and it turned out really nice. The visibility in the cabinet is fantastic and that makes a big difference.

I managed to get the rest of the wood done in the front of the car. These last pieces were pretty tricky with the multiple angles and different joinery techniques. In the end it fit well and I was very happy with it. I even got the steering shaft in and in the right place!!

Jeff, I've been fighting with the lighting inside my blast cabinet without much success. You just gave me the solution. Thank you.

Jeff,

Your progress is inspiring. I am regrouping our project since I have discovered that I may actually have a very early 1914 Metz and not a 1913. The differences seem minor. I'm not sure what mess I will get into with the State of Florida with the title to the car. Maybe I should leave that alone for now. All I know is this: At some point in the last 30 years, the exact year of our cars was confused. I wonder how common this is with early cars? Any ideas from the group?

Andy.

About 2 years ago I broke the bearing cases for the chain drive shaft while trying to get the bearings out. These pieces were cast iron so really the only option was to get some new ones cast using the broken one as a pattern. I patched one together and sent it to Cattail Foundry and 6 or so months later they sent me back some nice news ones cast in bronze. They did a great job but there was still some machine work to be done to get them cleaned up and the bearings pressed in. I also had some fabrication work I needed done so I took everything to a machine shop that I had worked with in the past. They were busy and said it would have to wait for a slow time. I called once or twice and they were always busy. Somehow 8 months or so went by with nothing done. I went up there yesterday to check on them and fortunately everything was done!! Attached is a picture of the broken original. Next to that is one of the raw bronze pieces I got back and then finally, the machined piece with the new bearing in place.

I'm still not able to devote much time to the project but at least things are still slowly creeping forward. I've got a couple more small jobs for the machine shop and they think they can get them done this fall. That'll get me just a little closer.

Another task I recently completed was to disassemble the muffler and isolate the end caps so that I can send them to Cattail Foundry and get some more pieces made. There are not many Metz mufflers to be found and it took nearly 3 years to find this one. I know of one other person that needs a muffler so I'm having the end caps duplicated for them. If another Metz owner needs these pieces, please PM me soon so I can order the pieces.

Great progress!

I had a pattern for Hupmobile Model 20 muffler ends, so sent them to Mystic Foundry in Somerville Mass (suburb of Boston) and they cast in bronze for about $40 each, and in a couple of weeks....that was about 5 years ago, sure it's gone up now but was a bargain then!

A lot of these cars are missing original mufflers...and the cast ends are the key to having one...

Hi, I'm looking for parts for an elderly friend who has a 1912 Metz 22 in the Cleveland,Ohio area. He specifically needs both rear fenders and windshield with frame and top. Can you point me in the right direction? Thank you,Ken

Just wanted to let everyone know that I'm still plugging away.  I haven't gotten a lot done car wise but I've been adding some tools.  Over the summer I picked up a 1898 Hendey 14x6 lathe.  I'm currently restoring it and should be done fairly soon.  It will be a great help completing many tasks on the car.  Driving out to the machine shop and waiting 4 months for them to fit me in just wasn't working out.  Having the lathe should allow me to do a lot of the work myself.  I'll have to learn to use it but then that's half the fun anyway.  I'm looking for a milling machine as well.  I've also caught the 'old iron' disease.  It is similar to my 'old car' disease.  I'll be looking for a milling machine that is similar in age to the lathe and the Metz.  Can't have any of that new junk in my shop!!

Well now, that IS a big one for home uses.  I have a smaller one about 50 years newer, and I just used it again today to make a simple tool to be able to press in new rubber bushings on some lever shocks.

One bad thing about old lathes is the 3 jaw chucks are normally worn out.  I run a 4 jaw that takes more setup time, but runs much truer.  Having a very accurate chuck is a must for certain jobs like working with a pre-machined shaft that needs something else done to it, but the shaft needs to be running dead true to do that task.  If you were only machining some chunk of roundstock down smaller, to make a bushing to be cut off, then a worn chuck will still turn it perfectly round.  But, if you had to unchuck that part to go test fit it, or turn it around to cut the other end, you'll never get it to run true again if the chuck is worn.

I never did end up with a vertical milling machine like a Bridgeport, but did get a $75 horizontal miller.  Those were mainly made for gear cutting , splining, and keyway cuts, but I have learned how to do some crazy stuff with it.  They are also very limited on table-travel, but I have learned ways to mill longer parts with creative ideas. 

F&J:  Fortunately the lathe has a newer (relatively speaking) 3 jaw chuck that appears to only need a little tuning to be accurate.  I'm still on the lookout for a 4 jaw though.   The lathe is a little big but I've heard that this size Hendey is really worth the space it takes up.  It is also helpful because I have two parts on the Metz that need to be trued up and both of them are a little over 12" in diameter.  The Hendey swings a good bit over 14" so that will work great.   There are quite a few bolts that I'll need to make as well.  Restoring the lathe has been a ton of fun.  The swarf/grease/oil/etc cover the lathe in a protective way... very little rust.  Granted it was a little excessive and I had to build a large parts washer just to clean everything up but it was a welcomed break from the rust of the Metz. 

I missed out on a Wells Index knee mill for $750.  At the time I had no idea at all what was a good price for a mill and by the time I did the research it was gone.  It came with a ton of tooling as well.  I'll probably end up with a horizontal mill as well.  Gear cutting, splining and keyway cuts are all things I'll need to do.  I had a great opportunity for a universal mill but it was way too big for my shop.  There is a small Sheldon #0 Horizontal mill available not too far from me for $850.  In my opinion that is too much but the Bridgeports run $3000+ in my area.

Bridgeports are always going to bring fair money, but the horizontals usually get scrapped around here.  CT was a machine shop mecca at one time, so there are a few  machines still here.  A lot went to scrap when metal prices were up, so the ones still around are now not worth much.  They are all 3 phase, but the electronic converters work excellent even with the 1/3 loss of HP.  My miller sounds so nice with that HUGE electric motor purring away, and I have never felt a loss of HP.

I'm not sure what truing up can be done on a 3 jaw.  The typical wear is on the internal spiral gear and the mating teeth on each jaw. Sometimes a worn 3 jaw that can't hold the OD of a part correctly, it however can hold the ID of a part, if it had little use on ID clamping work.

A big lathe is a big plus if a person has the room.  A small lathe simply is not structurally solid enough to fast rough cuts.  If I push mine a bit too much, I can see the crossfeed system rock inwards a bit if the tool bites in deep. 

Luckily, I have a "gap bed" on mine, so by removing the "short way section" close to the chuck, I can swing large diameter, (but narrow) parts.

F&J:  Correct, the wear on the internal spiral gear will have to be what it is.  I do plan on using a die grinder to grind the teeth.  I saw a post on PracticalMachinist where Patrick Black restored his Hendey and I'm going to try and follow that... though I'll measure first to verify it really needs it.  I think the previous owner recently replaced the chuck so it might be in good shape.

I fell in love with the Hendey cone head lathes and it took a couple of attempts to get this one.  I'm excited to get it up and running.  I'm sure I'll be needing some help.

What converter are you running on your miller?  What is the HP of the motor?

The converter came from ebay quite a few years ago.  The name is either Andersen/Anderson, and they were from a desert state, maybe Arizona,  I bet they are still on ebay as it was a great unit.  Mine is maybe 1.5 hp, but I will look.  I could be wrong.  The motor is massive...it takes a while to stop with the added weight of the pully system.

The converters must be selected by HP or I should say, lack of HP.  They tell you that you cannot use their 3-5 HP unit on a less-than that HP motor, because it won't work...period.  So I went with their smaller one for $75 back then, and it still works great.

You can test your chuck right now without it running.  Just use a smooth deep socket chucked in half way, and hand turn the chuck with the tool holder 1/8" away, to see how good it tracks.

Very nice lathe. I presume it was designed for belt drive from overhead pulleys. How will you drive it?

Spinneyhill:

Yes, it was to be driven from an overhead line shaft.  At some point in the lathe's past it had an electric motor added.  They did this by attaching a column to the back and mounting a motor and 4 speed transmission above the cone pulley.  The transmission dates back to the early 40s so that's probably when it was done.  The addition is quite substantial and the mountings for the motor and transmission are cast iron and really heavy.  It makes the lathe very top heavy which is why you don't see them in the first pictures... I took them off for transportation.

I finished restoring the transmission a month or so ago.  I was able to contact a company that bought the design for the transmission from Western Mfg. Co and they were quite helpful in providing part diagrams and suggestions for oil seals and bearings. 

Fortunately there has been more activity than updates to this thread.  I'll post a few things over the next week to try and bring things up to date.  A major milestone (for the shop at least) was recently met as the Hendey is back together.  This simply would not have been possible without the assistance of fellow forum member JV Puleo. I still have some tuning to do on the Hendey and the pic below is not quite the final resting spot of the lathe but it will do for now.  I will post some better pictures later. 

That's one nice looking lathe. Love old machinery just as mush as old cars.

With the car I've gotten to the point where I could remove all the woodwork and start to finish it.  I stained all the wood and applied a sealer.  The 'finish' you see in the pictures is not the final finish, just the sealer.  I'm happy with how it looks though the grain will still need some more filling to get a nice flat surface when I go to apply the clear topcoat.  The 'trunk' area is not stained as it will be painted the body color.  I managed to find some 100 year old hinges that looked very appropriate for the trunk and got them installed.  Given that they are quite used, it took multiple test fittings with scrap wood to find the slope that each mortise had to be cut such that the trunk lid would close nicely.  Lucky for me the couple of jigs I created based on the test fittings worked just fine for the final cut.  The trunk parts have now been disassembled. I will fill and seal the grain for each piece, final sand and then assemble for the last time.  I'll go straight to an epoxy primer after that.  Much later, when I'm finishing the body work, I will glaze them and block sand to get things nice and flat before the topcoat. 

Next big task is a booth to spray paint!  Since I don't have the room for a separate paint booth I'm working on a design for one that can be assembled and taken down for each use.  I'm shooting for a 10'x12'x8 'booth with a positive ventilation system moving about 7500 cfm. The current plan is to build 4'x8' panels that are 1.25" thick that can be attached to each other and hung from permanent guides in the ceiling.  The first version will be wrapped with a clear plastic.  After I've verified that everything else works well I will put a 1/8" white plastic panel on the frame with a hole cut for a typical shop light.  The light will be on the outside and the hole sealed with plexiglass.  I don't have the money for explosion proof fans or lights and since I don't wish to blow up my shop, the fans and light go outside the booth.   Once this is all setup, I'll start painting the chassis pieces and getting the car back together.  Significant pieces still need repair and fabrication but the car should start looking like a car pretty soon.

10 minutes ago, Laughing Coyote said:

That's one nice looking lathe. Love old machinery just as mush as old cars.

Thanks!  I will admit that I've become quite addicted as well.  I've added quite a few old tools since the lathe.  In addition to being better quality, you can see the passion that went into designing and building them.

Just dropped in to say that things are still creeping along.  I have been spending a lot of time acquiring and restoring machine tools and tidbits.  I'm much closer to having the metal work capabilities that I need to fix/fabricate the remaining problem parts on the Metz.  Multiple "roadblocks' have been navigated recently due to the help of JV Puleo as well as the inspiration from the guys here in this forum who just plow through the problems they have and make it work.   I'll have some pictures to post soon.

There's a lot going on in the shop right now as I continue to try and tool up the metal working side.  The restoration of the Hendey is complete and I'm in the process of getting it setup to produce parts with accuracy.  Fortunately JV Puleo is walking me through this process.  I post a few updates as I get it online.  I also acquired and restored a mid-30s Buffalo 18 drill press.  This is a big 300lb floor model that after a mechanical and cosmetic restoration, is a huge upgrade over my bench mount drill press.  I can't even imagine doing this next project without the Buffalo.

The goal now is to get the chassis rough assembled.   Unfortunately this is likely to be a slow process filled with pauses to fabricate/repair parts.  I've mounted the frame rails on a platform that will set the frame at approximately the height it will be when on wheels.  The first step is to get the leaf springs hung from the frame rails.   I found some square u-bolts that while not quite like the originals, will work fine with some file work.  I still hold out hope that I can find the proper style but I'm moving forward with these for now.   I've attached a picture of a 1913 Metz that Phil took a picture of.  This Metz is a well persevered original and this picture shows in great detail how the front leaf springs are attached to the frame rails.   The u-bolts didn't come with a lower plate and even if they did, the Metz had a unique 3/8" thick plate which is a look I wanted to preserve.  As such, I bought a 6' length of 3/4" wide, 3/8" thick bar.  I cut that up into 17 (a spare) 3" lengths and then drilled 29/64" holes 1/2" in from each side.  I chamfered the holes and edges and cleaned them up a bit.  Next task will be to make the upper plate (with two 'humps') and wood spacer that makes up the height from the bottom of the frame rails and the hole where the u-bolt comes through.   After that I'll make the bottom plate that keeps the pair of u-bolts the proper distance apart under the leaf spring.  A final wood spacer goes below the frame rail and above the leaf springs.  In addition to adding some 'give', I think the purpose of the spacer is to account for the head of the bolt that goes through the leaf springs. 

I did a prototype of the upper front mount today.  I took a piece of 1.25" wide 1/8" thick bar and used my press to make two bumps 4.04" apart. This went a little better than I expected.  It was pretty easy to mark the center of the hump, heat the metal and the place a 3/8" bolt across and use the press to push that down.  I added some 3/8" stock on each side so that as the bolt went down (and the ends went up) the 3/8" stock then pushed the ends down and made a nice defined bump. This seems to be a repeatable process.

Since the ends are supposed to continue the curve, I put them in the vise with the 3/8" bolt at the top (note I flattened one side) and two spacers below.  With it secure in the vise, I used a hammer to complete the bend.  I cleaned that up with a file, evened the edges and gave it a test fit... very happy with the first pass.

The bottom plate that maintains the spacing between the pair of u-bolts was the area I had the least information.   I made a quick pattern to test the functionality and it appears to work nicely.  I didn't bother to cut out the excess and round the corners as I'll probably get some 1/16" stock and give that a try as I think the 1/8" stock is too thick.   The purpose of this piece became fairly evident when I first tried to put the u-bolts on without it. Due to the curve in the leaf springs the u-bolts want to work toward the center as you tighten them.  At first I thought the bottom plate would hold the u-bolts square to the frame rails.  After working with it I think the idea is that the distance between the holes it the same distance as in the frame rail, however, given that the plate is curved (and thus slightly longer), the u-bolts are angled slightly toward center.  This angle then makes the u-bolts square to the bottom of the leaf spring and thus as you tighten the nut, the force travels toward the top of the u-bolt, not at an angle.  Looking at the pictures of other Metz it is easy to see that the u-bolts are indeed slightly angled.  Here is a shot of the assembly.  This, again, is a prototype and I'll be making a few changes.  The top wood spacer needs to be 1/8" thinner and the bottom spacer need to be 1/8" thicker.  Both spacers should be wider and match the width of the leaf spring, not the bottom of the frame rail.  The bottom plate should be 1/16" thick and, of course, cut-out and rounded.  I'm happy with the process and the results.  I'll get cranking on the real ones when the 1/16" stock comes in.

Also... just a note, when it comes time for final assembly, I will blacken the u-bolts and use thick square nuts in the correct style for 1913.   I might be using some modern materials but the goal is for the car to appear as it would have when it left the factory.

Isn't that chamfered, upper spacer between the frame and bent bar supposed to be metal? It looks like it on the photo of the original spring connection.

It could very well be.  I've looked at multiple pictures and had decided it was metal.  Some of the other pictures look much more like wood.  I have an email out to two Metz owners to try and get a final say.  There were also three different styles... one had bent metal that also provided support to the frame rail, one had the u-bolt with a bolt on top the bolted up through the frame rail and a third that was somewhat of a hybrid of the first one. 

Here is the top rear mount and while still hard to tell, I think the lack of rust heavily implies that it is wood. 

Jeff,   where did you locate the new leaf springs?

You should have a DPC between the wood and the metal, otherwise the metal will corrode. The wood will get wet and stay that way for a while. Once the metal starts to corrode, the wood will break down fairly quickly - it is called "nail sickness".

DPC = damp proof course.

3 hours ago, MAG473 said:

Jeff,   where did you locate the new leaf springs?

Unfortunately I don't know the exact answer to that.  I received the new front leaf spring in trade for my extra rear leaf springs.  I will email the person I traded with and ask him the name.  I searched through my email conversations with him to find the name but all I could find was " I found springs on the internet from a place in Michigan. ". I also note that they only carried 36" and 30" leaf springs (in the style correct for the Metz). I believe the rear springs on the Metz are 36" and I chose not to order those. 

3 hours ago, Spinneyhill said:

You should have a DPC between the wood and the metal, otherwise the metal will corrode. The wood will get wet and stay that way for a while. Once the metal starts to corrode, the wood will break down fairly quickly - it is called "nail sickness".

 

DPC = damp proof course.

Yes, I was thinking about that and I'm thinking about changing materials for that reason.  The spacer is painted so I don't think it would really be noticeable if I used something else.  I was also thinking about gluing Tyvek to the wood.  I know that Tyvek doesn't pass liquid water but it will pass water vapor and I'm not really sure if that is good enough.  What would you recommend for a DPC?"

1 hour ago, Luv2Wrench said:

 What would you recommend for a DPC?"

I would start by looking at what is used under buildings. Here is a bit of general information.

https://theconstructor.org/building/damp-proof-course-dpc/4590/

There is a list of materials in the Wikipedia entry too.

You want something that is inert against steel and a DPC on wood. Be careful with pressure treated timber: it is probably treated with copper compounds which leach out when the wood gets excessively wet. Copper + steel = accelerated rust of the steel.

In fact, I now think I would investigate using RHS for the two spacers. I think the nice fitting curve in your lower timber piece will restrict the spring, which will try to straighten when the axle comes up and will attempt to crush the thicker ends of the wood piece - or maybe even break there. I believe you just need a flat surface against the spring. These two pieces are basically stiffening the flange of the chassis channel and spreading the load on it so it doesn't bend up or buckle the web.